Motorcycle misprint

[bluesofa]

I haven't missed anything obvious here, have I?  Surely the spelling is  มอเตอร์ไซค์  with ค, not ด.

Is there an illiterate sign-writer on Koh Samui?

 

  

 

From this article:  https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1037983-thailandonly-koh-samui-road-safety-campaign-sends-out-the-wrong-message/

 

[tgeezer]

Well done, most people wouldn't notice!

 I assumed that it should be ค so looked it up. My RID is the 2525 edition and it has มอเตอร์ for 'motor' and my fundementals book, circa 2550,  has มอเตอร์ไซค์mfor motorcycle.  I prefer จักรยานยนต์ for motorcycle so I wonder about หมวกนิรภัย; if it is alright to use มอเตอร์ไชค์ why isn't หมวกกันนก chosen for consistency.  

I am not sure of the spelling, I took it to mean 'knock' but could be 'bird', the introduction of crash helmets was resisted so it be a joke, กันขี้นก ? 

Any ideas welcome? 

 

 

 

[bluesofa]

I've just been into the village to have a look - two shops doing repair work, both spelt มอเตอร์ไซค์ - transliterating(-ish!) from the English word.

As จักรยานยนต์ is obviously the official word, and so used on the driving licence.

 

Regarding helmet, I've only ever known หมวกกันนก. I'm guessing หมวกนิรภัย is perhaps the correct term for it? - not that I would know the etymology of หมวกกันนก.

I note google translate offers หมวกนิรภัย as 'helmet', whereas หมวกกันนก does come out as 'bird hat' and 'bird helmet'!

 

[digbeth]

it's หมวกกันน๊อก/น๊อค as in knock your head on the ground

[katana]

My dictionary spells it as มอเตอร์ไซค์ with a ค.

Looking on Google, there are 12 million hits for มอเตอร์ไซค์ and 1.1 million with มอเตอร์ไซด์, so it's quite a common misspelling/ variant spelling.

Edited May 13, 2018 by katana

[tgeezer]

23 hours ago, digbeth said:

it's หมวกกันน๊อก/น๊อค as in knock your head on the ground

I had forgotten that นก does not rhyme with knock! 

หมวกกันน็อก is in the RID so perhaps this sign should have used it rather than หมวกนิรภัย if they are thinking of English, crash helmet, safety hat.  I don’t think that it is very important but there is no doubt about the spelling of มอเตอร์ไซค์ 

Blue sofa, มอเตอร์ไซค์ says motosi (open ‘I’) no ‘ish’ there. Thai shortens many English words, Kilometer, kilogramme = กิโล basket ball = บาส 

Football= บอล Microphone= ไมค์ etc. 

[bluesofa]

tgeezer,

I know I wrote "transliterating(-ish!)", because although I've read about it, I find it difficult to follow how it works. Rather than translating, although I know that often when Thai does use English words, it shortens them to make them easier for Thais to say, rather than I would pedantically imagine following the entire word.

 

Going OT slightly, สุวรรณภูมิ seems to be transliterated in English as Suvarnabhumi, although the final "i" is not sounded.

I noticed ชัยภูมิ becomes Chaiypum, although I don't know if some road signs might have the superfluous "i" as well? So within Thai the final มิ seems to have the อิ ignored, I end up accepting it, but as with a lot of Thai, don't know why.

I'm sure it's a quite contentious issue, when a word ends up in English not necessarily easy for native English speakers to read. I have a friend who always sounds the superfluous "i" in Suvarnabhumi, and can't understand why it's there if it's not supposed to be read.

 

My stepson's name is พลวัต, which the amphur translated on his ID card as Phonwat. He needed to apply for a passport, so I made the point of getting the amphur to change the English on his ID card to Polawat first, so that having a passport with that spelling, at least it can be pronounced in English more correctly.

 

[tgeezer]

Sorry, I see that you meant ‘sort of transliterating’ .  

In the case of สิงห์ the beer the brewery has given it the name Singha for the foreign market also. There are lots of accommodations made mostly on the Thai side, as seen in the other topic:แคว has become Kwai. 

Don’t you think that ว=v rather strange?  Apparently Thais don’t like to mess with proper names so I am surprised that they agreed to Polawat. If you rolled the two words together as in ผลไม้ it would sound more authentic: ponlawat.    

ชัยภูมิ is said ไชยะพูม  A favourable location to win a battle, I think. 

[bluesofa]

Sorry this is long and still a little OT!

I follow what you say about proper names, but, as was someone in the amphur who originally "transliterated" it, so it seemed correct to a Thai, but they weren't aware/bothered about how it sounded in English. I was surprised, but pleased, when they offered no resistance to changing the English spelling.

 

When I applied for my yellow housebook, I needed my passport details and name in Thai. I went to the approved translator with my surname written as I wanted it in Thai. 'Hughes' always ends up with two syllables - various options of "hug" + "hes" in Thai. I wrote it as I wanted it and ask the translator to spell it ฮิวส์. I know I'll never get the final 's' sounded, but at least it's closer than it was before.

 

I remember decades ago sending a letter from the UK to someone with a Chonburi address.

The UK Post Office staff had a Thai produced postcode book. No Chonburi, only Cholburi. I thought it was a misprint at the time.

Now with a (somewhat) better understand of Thai I realise it was a Thai who "transliterated" ชลบุรี to Cholburi, but due to ชล being pronounced in Thai as "chon" - same as พร is Porn, they missed that it should have been written as "Chon".

Both ล & ร as final consonants in a syllable end up being sounded as น - there might be others?

Thais who are not native English speakers must miss this - but I don't know how พลวัต became Phonwat though.

 

 

[tgeezer]

It is interesting to me, พหลโยธิน =  Phaholyothin was the original but newer road signs have Phahonyothin. 

ผล =pon วัต =wat, Two words but since they are both Sanskrit they can be joined by making the ล serve as the end of the first and the first of the second with ะ inserted. ผนละวัด where you read the meaning right to left, ผลวัต =ผลของวัต 

I have to look those things up, joining words like that is called การสมาสแบบไทย 

[digbeth]

20 hours ago, bluesofa said:

 

 

I'm sure it's a quite contentious issue, when a word ends up in English not necessarily easy for native English speakers to read. I have a friend who always sounds the superfluous "i" in Suvarnabhumi, and can't understand why it's there if it's not supposed to be read.

 

I have indian friends who upon seeing 'Suvananbhumi' understood the sanskrit root and understood the meaning immediately, whereas had it been written the way Thais spoke it as 'Suvannapoom' they wouldn't have otherwise understood the meaning

[bluesofa]

2 hours ago, digbeth said:

I have indian friends who upon seeing 'Suvananbhumi' understood the sanskrit root and understood the meaning immediately, whereas had it been written the way Thais spoke it as 'Suvannapoom' they wouldn't have otherwise understood the meaning

Things like this make me realise Thai is a lot more involved than just the language as it's spoken today. You're saying the word has a Sanskrit origin, not that I had any idea of that. It's interesting that seeing it written in English tells them that?

I think I remember H.M. Rama IX named the airport, I thought the word meant 'golden land', although I'll stand corrected if that's wrong.

 

[digbeth]

The way things are written in Thai using letters that used to have different sounds like ฆ/ค  ฑ/ธ/ท also preserves the origin of the word as well.

 

Going by more recent loanwords from English for example, the word 'slice' and 'slide' when pronounced by typical thai as สะ ไล้  hence the transliteration include the 'silenced' letters of สไลซ์ and สไลด์.... to a Thai without knowledge of English, the silenced letters at the end can be considered superfluous and might view people who pronounce and distinguish the difference between two words as being pedantic/pretentious the way we view people who pronounce 'Suvannabhumi' to the full

[bluesofa]

Thanks digbeth, for those two very similar examples, explaining slice and slide. As native English speakers we understand that difference easily, therefore needing the complete pronunciation for it to be clear.

 

How about 'Suvannabhumi' though? In Thai the 'i' at the end isn't pronounced, but someone with no knowledge of the Thai language isn't aware of that, hence without any prior knowledge would pronounce the 'i', as my American friend has always done.

I'm sure it will always be a bone of contention regarding "transliterating" Thai and English. Or have I perhaps missed the point somewhere?

 

[digbeth]

There are many 'silent' letters in English that reflects the origin of the words too

P sounds from Greek that don't get pronounced:

Psychology Pneumonia 

 

Knight from German

 

Even Japanese like Tsunami where the T is not pronounced

 

A learner of English would have difficult time remembering all these exceptions

 

Technically, pronouncing the mi at the end of Suvannabhumi is closer to the original Sanskrit than the way Thais pronounce it, but it does the difference between the way foreigner and local pronounce the word form barrier to communication? to taxi driver? even Bangkok and Krungthep is totally different word yet we got by just fine

 

 

[tgeezer]

 I can find สวรรค์ which is Sanskrit and obviously where the idea for สวรรณภูมิ comes from but I have not found a reference for ภูมิ as ฟ Sanskrit word, has anyone got a reference? 

[digbeth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suvarnabhumi

[digbeth]

สุวรรณ is gold not สวรรค์

ภูมิ is land 

ภูมิประเทศ geography

[tgeezer]

Ha ha, finally I see it written in Thai!  I hadn’t noticed that Su was สุ so was looking up the wrong word all along and had ‘heavenly land’!  

[bluesofa]

ภูมิประเทศ is that geography regarding the country, where it’s located, etc?

I understood ภูมิศาสตร์ is geography as the subject taught at school.

 

ภูมิ ground, land. What’s the difference in usage between ภูมิ and ดิน?

 

Having got used to seeing มิ at the end of a word, I’d forgotten that when it’s beginning or middle of a word, then the  ิ is sounded, and not silent when it’s only at the end.

 

I’m pleased I remembered correctly about สุวรรณภูมิ which was suggested by the king, and the name “golden land” . Thanks digbeth for the wiki link about it.