Thai girlfriend first visitor visa refused - help needed addressing refusal points!

[cfrsh91]

Hi all,

 

I'm a British citizen based in the UK and in a long-distance relationship with a Thai girl who resides in Bangkok. I've been there a couple of times since we've been together and we decided the next step would be for her to come here for 3-4 weeks on a visitor visa, with a view to getting her a fiancée visa 6-12 months down the line.

 

She recently applied for this and got a rejection based on several criteria, which are shown below. Apologies if certain points of this rejection letter may have been addressed previously but every application is different and I wanted to get some personalised input specifically on my girlfriend's visa rejection letter.

 

She went through a visa agency which her friend had successfully used previously for a UK visitor visa, and I got red flags halfway through the process when they asked for payment for their services before she even had the VFS appointment.

They then advised her to deposit around 80,000 THB into her bank account (which her father had given her in cash at her request) several days before the appointment, as her bank account funds were low (despite the fact I had already agreed and submitted documentation to be her sponsor, and this seemingly being acceptable).

 

She did as suggested and after the appointment at VFS, some further research led us to believe that this could be a cause for rejection (due to being classed as funds parking), as the agency had not advised that we would need to explain where the funds came from (and neither of us have had any previous experience trying to get a visa as complicated as a UK one).

 

She then got the below rejection letter, which indicates this was the first reason for rejection.

 

The second reason was that she stated in her application that she would spend around 100,000 THB on various things on the trip, which is over 13x her monthly disposable income and thus they doubt that she was "seeking entry only for the purpose and duration stated".

 

The third reason given was that her mother would help her pay for the visit, and although her mother's bank statement showed a balance of 683,000 THB, 342,000 TBH of this was cash deposits with no explanation offered and thus they do not believe that "the bank statement accurately reflects your personal circumstances and that the funds shown are genuinely available to you for your exclusive use".

 

Regarding the refusal points, to address them we plan to explain as follows:

 

1) The two deposits of 40,000 THB were actually the amounts that her mother would contribute towards her trip, so are we okay to explain this in her introduction letter, if we include a letter from her mother stating this and where it came from? One of the 40,000 THB actually came from her grandmother's account at her parent's request, although this was family savings - we are planning to include a letter for her Grandma to sign which will confirm this.

 

2) To address the second point regarding the 100,000 THB issue as she had put that this would be the cost of the trip to her.. The English question reads "what is the cost of the trip to you personally?" but she has said that the Thai translation of this question reads along the lines of "how much are you going to use on your trip", which she assumed included the cost of the trip to me as her sponsor also, and therefore gave too large a figure considering the amount she will need to spend will be small.

 

3) Her mother's bank statements having unexplained deposits. The deposits actually came from work that she does selling farm produce at market, although she has no record of this other than that which is recorded in a book which she uses to keep records (so no receipts etc.). Regarding this point, are we okay to draw from this that the main reason this was given for refusal was due to the funds not being available solely for her and to counter this by stating that the funds are now in her bank account?

 

Any advice you guys can offer regarding how to resolve this without resorting to using an agency (who I'm clearly not convinced by whatsoever) would be much appreciated.

 

Happy to attach copies of the letters from her/her mother/grandmother/me if you think it will help shed some light.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[rasg]

You seem to be doing the rounds of the forums.

 

Email me your last sponsor letter and the letters from the three of them and I will try and help.

 

Cheers.

[theoldgit]

You do seem to have been given some incorrect advice from and agent, unfortunatley it is very easy to set yourself up as an agent here in Thailand, and there is no regulatory authority to monitor the quality of advice given, or address complaints about agents.

 

Certainly padding accounts can lead to problems, as your girlfriend has found out. 

 

It maybe helpful if you could post the actual refusal notice, redacting any personal details, and then the guys on there could maybe offer suggestions in respect of the actual areas of concern.

 

By all means take up the offer of getting another member to read through the sponsors note, but this is a public forum and your pitfalls, and subsequent remidies, maybe of benefit to others.

[Pat in Pattaya]

I thought (and have read on here) that if the sponsor shows that he has sufficient funds to support the applicants trip than that will suffice? Isn't that the whole point of the sponsor, to show that he can fund the trip? Have even read that if this is the case the applicant doesn't even have to show any funds at all, so doing, this in good faith,  may have well backfired on her?

 

This is clearly a very grey area.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Pat in Pattaya

[flyingdoc]

Indeed, all visa applications for  the UK seem to be steeped in pitfalls, even where legitimate funds are in place !

[theoldgit]

4 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

I thought (and have read on here) that if the sponsor shows that he has sufficient funds to support the applicants trip than that will suffice? Isn't that the whole point of the sponsor, to show that he can fund the trip? Have even read that if this is the case the applicant doesn't even have to show any funds at all, so doing, this in good faith,  may have well backfired on her?

 

This is clearly a very grey area.

Not quite that simple I'm afraid, whilst any sponsor will need to satisfy the ECO that they have sufficient funds to sponsor an applicant, and of course the source of the funds, but they also have to satisfy the ECO that it's appropriate and reasonaable for them to do so.

[Pat in Pattaya]

3 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Not quite that simple I'm afraid, whilst any sponsor will need to satisfy the ECO that they have sufficient funds to sponsor an applicant, and of course the source of the funds, but they also have to satisfy the ECO that it's appropriate and reasonaable for them to do so.

Which is why I said it's a  grey area. So the ECO could even question the source of funds from the sponsor?? IMO that is ridiculous, if he has the money then he has the money, we're essentially just talking about him paying fora woman's holiday for heavans sake.

 

Fully take your second point though, if it's just a girlfriend that you haven't been with for too long I suppose in the ECO's mind that would be that the sponsor is either a very generous, deperate man (as well as a handsum one) or something is not all as it seems.

[GarryP]

Isn't also confidence in the applicant returning to Thailand an important factor? 

[Pat in Pattaya]

4 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Isn't also confidence in the applicant returning to Thailand an important factor? 

Yes, massively.

[Tigger01]

Spend an hour or so reading the UK embassy website for Visa application and save yourself some money, no need to pay an agent. I've done it for my girlfriend and my friend girlfriend, happy to help you if you like.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DUNROAMIN]

The money is not priority no 1 for immigration. Yes you need to show how she is going to be supported, by proving proof of income from you, bank statements, pension, and have some funds of her own etc, however,  more importantly, you have to convince the people at immigration that she is going to return to Thailand. Does she have a job here, does her family need her here for support, does she own her own house or have assets here compelling her to return. You have to keep in mind that the processing immigration officers at the Embassy are all Thais, there are only a handful of actual farang staff, they don't do the applications. So, from my previous experience, firstly, the Thais working at the embassy do not understand English 100%, so when writing letters use the KISS principle, keep it simple stupid. Your countries biggest fear is that she will scamper once in the country. All countries are the same these days, they are making it more difficult for visa, especially Asian countries.

Good luck.

[cyberfarang]

5 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

I thought (and have read on here) that if the sponsor shows that he has sufficient funds to support the applicants trip than that will suffice? Isn't that the whole point of the sponsor, to show that he can fund the trip? Have even read that if this is the case the applicant doesn't even have to show any funds at all, so doing, this in good faith,  may have well backfired on her?

 

This is clearly a very grey area.

Totally wrong.

 

What they want to see, is references from employers or accounts if self employed from the applicant. Bank statement showing savings, money going in and out for a least a previous 6 months. The purpose of a sponsor is meant to be a person that can confirm where the Thai person will be staying, the rest falls on the applicant to prove he or she can support themselves while visiting and has all intentions of returning to Thailand and not planning to remain in the UK for purposes of becoming a sex worker, working illegally and not being an economic refugee.

 

This is one part of the British immigration system I completely agree with.

 

 

 

 

[thonglorjimmy]

14 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

You have to keep in mind that the processing immigration officers at the Embassy are all Thais, there are only a handful of actual farang staff, they don't do the applications. So, from my previous experience, firstly, the Thais working at the embassy do not understand English 100%, so when writing letters use the KISS principle, keep it simple stupid. Your countries biggest fear is that she will scamper once in the country. All countries are the same these days, they are making it more difficult for visa, especially Asian countries.

Would you be good enough to fill us in on the facts regarding your experience, did you work for the UKVI at the British Embassy?

I always understood that the ECO's were either locally employed Brit's or a few other nationalities, like Australia, or UKVI staff on secondment from the UK, is that not the case? You seem to imply, no you actually claim, that the ECO's are all Thai and that the English staff take no part in the decision making process - are you sure about that?

[Pat in Pattaya]

7 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Totally wrong.

 

What they want to see, is references from employers or accounts if self employed from the applicant. Bank statement showing savings, money going in and out for a least a previous 6 months. The purpose of a sponsor is meant to be a person that can confirm where the Thai person will be staying, the rest falls on the applicant to prove he or she can support themselves while visiting and has all intentions of returning to Thailand and not planning to remain in the UK for purposes of becoming a sex worker, working illegally and not being an economic refugee.

 

This is one part of the British immigration system I completely agree with.

 

 

 

 

You seem to be very sure of yourself. I have NEVER heard of a case where the applicant has to provide all that info for a standard visiting visa.

 

You say 'The purpose of a sponsor is meant to be a person that can confirm where the Thai person will be staying, the rest falls on the applicant to prove he or she can support themselves'

 

Complete nonsense. So by your logic only a person who has a job, can support herself will be granted a visa? How do all the thousands of Thai woman who are housewifes, have no job etc, get granted a visa?

 

Scare mongering at it's finest.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Pat in Pattaya

[BigT73]

1 hour ago, Tigger01 said:

Spend an hour or so reading the UK embassy website for Visa application and save yourself some money, no need to pay an agent. I've done it for my girlfriend and my friend girlfriend, happy to help you if you like.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Good advice and kind of you to offer your help to the op,  I did one for my misses followed all the criterea from the website and got one no probs but difference for me was I was here in Thailand and when applying I could show accompaning plane tickets and proof of relationship easily.  

[Russell17au]

There are several things.

In your invitation letter and sponsors letter did you state the address where she would be living? Did you state that you would take full responsibility for all her financial and MEDICAL needs? Did you state that you would ensure that she would abide by the laws of the UK and that she would not take on any form of employment and that you would ensure that she would leave the UK on the prescribed date of her visa?

A lot of you better catch up with the facts. Visa applications are not done at the embassies now, they have been contracted out to Global VFS which is an Indian company headquartered in Dubai and all employees here it Thailand are Thai, there are no westerners employed here.

 

[theoldgit]

24 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

There are several things.

In your invitation letter and sponsors letter did you state the address where she would be living? Did you state that you would take full responsibility for all her financial and MEDICAL needs? Did you state that you would ensure that she would abide by the laws of the UK and that she would not take on any form of employment and that you would ensure that she would leave the UK on the prescribed date of her visa?

A lot of you better catch up with the facts. Visa applications are not done at the embassies now, they have been contracted out to Global VFS which is an Indian company headquartered in Dubai and all employees here it Thailand are Thai, there are no westerners employed here.

 

I'm sorry but this post is wrong on so many points.

 

It's up to the applicant to advise the decision maker where they intend to reside for the duration of their proposed trip, if the sponsor is providing accommodation, then by all means confirm the fact.

 

A sponsor may provide financial support and accommodation if required but there is no way they can guarantee that the applicant will abide by U.K. laws, such a guarantee is unenforceable.

 

Your statement that VFS make decisions regarding applications is also completely wrong, VFS do no more than receive the applications and forward them to the UKVI currently located in the British Embassy, they play no part in the decision making process whatsoever. 

 

 

[English Engineer]

I have obtained uk visit visaa for my girlfriend now my wife. The visit visa was for 5 years. Think simply you need to provide bank statements for 6 months. Originals are more readily accepted rather than down loads. Your statements should show you have funds to support her.

 

Your girl friend then must show strong reasons why she will return to Thailand and not overstay.

 

A visit programme is also helpful indicating her holiday plans.

 

There is no advantage in using an agency. Just keep the application simple. She is coming for a holiday and you have the means to finance the visit.

[Russell17au]

8 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

30 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

There are several things.
In your invitation letter and sponsors letter did you state the address where she would be living? Did you state that you would take full responsibility for all her financial and MEDICAL needs? Did you state that you would ensure that she would abide by the laws of the UK and that she would not take on any form of employment and that you would ensure that she would leave the UK on the prescribed date of her visa?
A lot of you better catch up with the facts. Visa applications are not done at the embassies now, they have been contracted out to Global VFS which is an Indian company headquartered in Dubai and all employees here it Thailand are Thai, there are no westerners employed here. [\quote]

I'm sorry but this post is wrong on so many points.

It's up to the applicant to advise the decision maker where they intend to reside for the duration of their proposed trip, if the sponsor is providing accommodation, then by all means confirm the fact.
A sponsor may provide financial support and accommodation if required but there is no way they can guarantee that the applicant will abide by U.K. laws, such a guarantee is unenforceable.
Your statement that VFS make decisions regarding applications is also completely wrong, VFS do no more than receive the applications and forward them to the UKVI currently located in the British Embassy, they play no part in the decision making process whatsoever.

Gee, I have done a visa application every year for the last 5 years and I have always done my invitation and the sponsor letters the same and I have never had a problem by supplying that information in the letters, it helps to make it look more authentic in the relationship for a starter and unless things have changed then the visa was always signed by a member of the Global VFS staff who is Thai

[DJ54]

I’ve gotten a UK visa on website which was straight forward and no issues. But she’d been to US a couple of times prior and returned in the time allowed. No visa overstays. 

 

The visa very for US was an ordeal denied twice. I called the embassy and asked is she a criminal or something I don’t know? Told to go to

embassy a two hour flight away. 

 

Go to to appointment same as here a person behind the glass wall. He pulled out the file and a letter I wrote was on top.  He said we are concerned of this letter being a fake. It’s in form used by agents and we’ve had many violate visas from your province. 

 

I told him I wrote it, he got on computer and said ok tell her come in and get visa. 

 

I had copied the format from an agent online. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jamie2009]

After considering a few Visa Companies and seeking sdvice from Thai Visa members we applied for 6 month Visitor Visa to the UK for my Thai GF

She had no money in the bank, no job, no land no house etc, I wrote a Sponsors Letter stating I would support her in the UK, I said the main reasons she would return to Thailand was we had been in a relationship for 3 years plus, living together and if she did not return to Thailand I would with draw all the financial support.

The Visa was granted, posters rightly so stated on here you provide all the info for Agents so why not do it yourself. Plenty of translation companies available for the documents etc.it just takes time.

[theoldgit]

16 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

the visa was always signed by a member of the Global VFS staff who is Thai.

UK Visas, are not signed by anybody, go and have a look.

 

From the VFS Website

 

• What does VFS Global do?

  VFS Global manages visa application centres for UK Visas and Immigration, where you should submit your completed visa application form, passport, supporting documents and biometric data.

• Who decides if I will get a visa?

  Your visa application will be processed and decided by UK Visas and Immigration staff. VFS Global does not, play any part in or influence the outcome of your visa application.

  VFS Global or its staff are not authorised to advise/suggest the category or comment on the documents and duration of Visa issued.

https://www.vfsglobal.co.uk/thailand/frequently_asked_questions.html

[Russell17au]

9 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

UK Visas, are not signed by anybody, go and have a look.

sorry but I was talking about Australia and it is now the same since UK closed their embassy and moved into the same building as New Zealand and now they are also in with Australia at the new Global VSF office. Before Australia was on their own with Global VFS in a different location to where they are now

 

[fordguy61mi]

I live in the US and thoroughly researched this subject before deciding my then fiancé wasn’t going to get a tourist visa so I didn’t even have her apply. I didn’t want her to have  any visa rejections on her record when we went for the K1. I found that very few Thais get approved for tourist visas because simply put, a lot of them never return. They’ve screwed it up for everyone. You have to have strong evidence that you’ll return in order to get one. Her friend did get one and she has a good job as a nurse at a major hospital. My girl was only a waitress so she didn’t have much of a chance I reckoned. She also had 2 friends that were rejected for a tourist visa. You can’t “sponsor” someone, they have to be able to support the trip themselves. In fact, if they think they’re going to see a boyfriend they’ll reject them based on that. They figure they’ll get married while there and skirt around the visa rules and fees that go with it. It does happen, people do get tourist visas to the US and the UK, but from what I’ve read it’s hard to get one. I ended up going there 5 times in one year to visit her. We had our K1 visa approved and she’s now my wife. Good luck to you.

Edited May 14, 2018 by fordguy61mi

[Lacessit]

I had the same problem with my GF's visa to Australia. In my innocence, I thought the Australian Consulate in Bangkok employed rational human beings.

Eventually, I employed an AUSTRALIAN lawyer specialising in visas, which was successful. At considerable cost.

It's all based on ensuring Thais return to Thailand. Which is absolute BS, when you consider Australia is absorbing Sudanese who are creating a crime wave of their own once they get to Australia. Or the son of a Sudanese general, on Centrelink benefits, who has attempted to purchase a $2 million property in Narre Warren.

Thais in Australia do things such as restaurants, massage and yes, some prostitution. However, AFAIK they are not represented in the statistics for crimes of violence.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Lacessit

[fordguy61mi]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I had the same problem with my GF's visa to Australia. In my innocence, I thought the Australian Consulate in Bangkok employed rational human beings.

Eventually, I employed an AUSTRALIAN lawyer specialising in visas, which was successful. At considerable cost.

It's all based on ensuring Thais return to Thailand. Which is absolute BS, when you consider Australia is absorbing Sudanese who are creating a crime wave of their own once they get to Australia. Or the son of a Sudanese general, on Centrelink benefits, who has attempted to purchase a $2 million property in Narre Warren.

Yeah kind of like the US that has no problem it seems to come across the southern border illegally but God forbid they let a Thai come here on a legal visa. Crazy.

[jamie2009]

2 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

I live in the US and thoroughly researched this subject before deciding my then fiancé wasn’t going to get a tourist visa so I didn’t even have her apply. I didn’t want her to have  any visa rejections in her record when we went for the K1. I found it very few Thais get approved for tourist visas because simply put, a lot of them never return. They’ve screwed it up for everyone. You have to have strong evidence that you’ll return in order to get one. Her friend did get one and she has a good job as a nurse at a major hospital. My girl was only a waitress so she didn’t have much of a chance I reckoned. She also had 2 friends that of rejected for a tourist visa. You can’t “sponsor” someone, they have to be able to support the trip themselves. Ok fact, if they think they’re going to see a boyfriend they’ll reject them based on that. They figure they’ll get married while there and skirt around the visa rules and fees that go with it. It does happen, but from what I’ve read it’s hard to get one.

The UK might be different from the States, in an earlier post I said she applied, she had no job, no income, house, land etc. I explained and showed evidence that I would be paying for the trip and providing financial income in the UK, she was accepted, maybe I got lucky.

We will be applying next year, circumstances won’t have changed so hopefully she can get another 6 month Tourist Visa.

The biggest issue is to tell the truth on an application, one lie and it’s rejected and I believe she can never apply again.

[phantomfiddler]

5 hours ago, flyingdoc said:

Indeed, all visa applications for  the UK seem to be steeped in pitfalls, even where legitimate funds are in place !

Not all ! I took a girlfriend back to UK and the only requirement I was asked to produce was proof that I had known her for 1 year, which was easily done by producing a letter from a friend. On the other end of the spectrum I know a guy who is married to a Thai here and has 2 kids, and there is no way they will allow her into the country.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, fordguy61mi said:

Yeah kind of like the US that has no problem it seems to come across the southern border illegally but God forbid they let a Thai come here on a legal visa. Crazy.

I'm reminded of the Biblical aphorism of straining at a gnat, and swallowing a camel.

[fanjita]

4 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

On the other end of the spectrum I know a guy who is married to a Thai here and has 2 kids, and there is no way they will allow her into the country.

Why?  There must be a very good reason.  Please clarify.

 

I've read some nonsense but this thread takes the biscuit.  For a start a UK visit visa has got nothing to do with Oz or US requirements.

 

A UK visit visa is actually very straightforward, defined as follows: reason to return, finances and accommodation.