Thai girlfriend first visitor visa refused - help needed addressing refusal points!

[rasg]

6 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Feel for you mate...it really is completely ridiculous what you have to provide, completely insane in fact. As I said above the 'will she return to Thailand' thing is a huge problem.

 

I am applying for a tourist visa soon for her and even though she's been before, we are married with kids etc I'm getting a bad feeling that she will get knocked backed and I've taken a punt and paid for flight tickets already..

The reason they have a reason to return is because so many were not returning. People trafficking for prostitution, coming over to see family and not going back and working in the black economy etc etc.

 

UKVI specifically advise that you don't buy flight tickets. Let's hope your wife gets the visa.

 

6 hours ago, superal said:

How true your statement is .

  When it comes to a genuine UK citizen applying for a tourist visa for his Thai girlfriend the pa-lava that he has to go through is ridiculous  ( I know as I have had the same experience of rejection for my girlfriend and without justification )  . My application complied with all of your requirements above but was rejected as they were not convinced that she would return to Thailand despite having her own business and house & supported her parents . I was told that the best way is to use an agency who specialize in visa apps and guarantee 100% success , just got to go with the flow of this corrupt country .

I would be very interested in reading the refusal notice from the visa you mention. When refused the reason(s) for rejection are stated and explained quite clearly.

 

6 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Question - If you plan not to include the applicants finances (no water muddying) but she has a job, all be it a commission only job for a large clothing company, it that worth mentioning or could it open a can of worms?

 

I'm thinking if she has a job and can show letter from employer it may help to erase the 'she may not return to Thailand' thingy that these ECO's seem obsessed with..

 

Btw, we are married with kids etc and she has been to the UK before in 2011, but I want to make sure I do this right as would be distraught if we can't all go back later this year as planned...

A job is one of the best reasons for return to Thailand but if you live in Thailand and you've been married a while you probably have many reasons your wife would go back after the holiday. A house. The job etc etc. I had known my wife's for three months when she first applied for a visit visa. She was paid in cash and 40% of her money was sent straight home, 40% went on rent so it was never banked. I just pointed that out and explained that the rest went on living for week to week. It was never questioned and the visa was issued in a couple of weeks.

 

6 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Feel for you mate...it really is completely ridiculous what you have to provide, completely insane in fact. As I said above the 'will she return to Thailand' thing is a huge problem.

 

I am applying for a tourist visa soon for her and even though she's been before, we are married with kids etc I'm getting a bad feeling that she will get knocked backed and I've taken a punt and paid for flight tickets already..

The reason they have a reason to return is because so many were not returning. People trafficking for prostitution, coming over to see family and not going back and working in the black economy etc etc.

 

UKVI specifically advise that you don't buy flight tickets. Let's hope your wife gets the visa.

 

6 hours ago, superal said:

How true your statement is .

  When it comes to a genuine UK citizen applying for a tourist visa for his Thai girlfriend the pa-lava that he has to go through is ridiculous  ( I know as I have had the same experience of rejection for my girlfriend and without justification )  . My application complied with all of your requirements above but was rejected as they were not convinced that she would return to Thailand despite having her own business and house & supported her parents . I was told that the best way is to use an agency who specialize in visa apps and guarantee 100% success , just got to go with the flow of this corrupt country .

I would be very interested in reading the refusal notice from the visa you mention. When refused the reason(s) for rejection are stated and explained quite clearly.

 

6 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Question - If you plan not to include the applicants finances (no water muddying) but she has a job, all be it a commission only job for a large clothing company, it that worth mentioning or could it open a can of worms?

 

I'm thinking if she has a job and can show letter from employer it may help to erase the 'she may not return to Thailand' thingy that these ECO's seem obsessed with..

 

Btw, we are married with kids etc and she has been to the UK before in 2011, but I want to make sure I do this right as would be distraught if we can't all go back later this year as planned...

A job is one of the best reasons for return to Thailand but if you live in Thailand and you've been married a while you probably have many reasons your wife would go back after the holiday. A house. The job etc etc. I had known my wife's for three months when she first applied for a visit visa. She was paid in cash and 40% of her money was sent straight home, 40% went on rent so it was never banked. I just pointed that out and explained that the rest went on living for week to week. It was never questioned and the visa was issued in a couple of weeks.

 

3 hours ago, superal said:

Thats OK & good luck but you know what ? I read other posters here who like to write of their successful apps which they wrote themselves . Maybe they should be given the opportunity to oversee your visa app but I think no takers . Once again fingers crossed & good luck .

I offered the OP a copy of my sponsor letters when I saw this same thread on a different forum. They are a good starting point and show what is required, If Pat wants some help, I am quite happy to let him have a copy of the sponsor letters etc that I did for my girlfriend who is now my wife. If he wants me to help writing a sponsor letter, again I am happy to help. Having said that I am not going to do it all for him. He needs to send me the sponsor letter he has written and then I will edit it. I have sent those same letters to numerous people who have had successful applications. Some have written the whole thing themselves. Others I have edited.

[wgdanson]

On 5/14/2018 at 8:01 PM, khunPer said:

Britain (as tourist) was by the way a much easier process than Schengen (continental Europe).

Totally agreed, but we got both.

[Rolanddrums]

I think what  many would like to know in situations where long term GF has no regular job/bank statements/land in her name is:- What is the best answer to put in the 'Reason to return to Thailand' box?  I'm talking about ,UK, tourist Visa's for holiday purposes and applicants that have a good Sponsor here. (eg Boyfriend with own home/money etc.) One person wrote 'reason to return' was if she didnt, he would withdraw all financial support from her . Seems reasonable. Any other suggestions?

[Pat in Pattaya]

16 minutes ago, rasg said:

The reason they have a reason to return is because so many were not returning. People trafficking for prostitution, coming over to see family and not going back and working in the black economy etc etc.

 

UKVI specifically advise that you don't buy flight tickets. Let's hope your wife gets the visa.

 

I would be very interested in reading the refusal notice from the visa you mention. When refused the reason(s) for rejection are stated and explained quite clearly.

 

A job is one of the best reasons for return to Thailand but if you live in Thailand and you've been married a while you probably have many reasons your wife would go back after the holiday. A house. The job etc etc. I had known my wife's for three months when she first applied for a visit visa. She was paid in cash and 40% of her money was sent straight home, 40% went on rent so it was never banked. I just pointed that out and explained that the rest went on living for week to week. It was never questioned and the visa was issued in a couple of weeks.

 

The reason they have a reason to return is because so many were not returning. People trafficking for prostitution, coming over to see family and not going back and working in the black economy etc etc.

 

UKVI specifically advise that you don't buy flight tickets. Let's hope your wife gets the visa.

 

I would be very interested in reading the refusal notice from the visa you mention. When refused the reason(s) for rejection are stated and explained quite clearly.

 

A job is one of the best reasons for return to Thailand but if you live in Thailand and you've been married a while you probably have many reasons your wife would go back after the holiday. A house. The job etc etc. I had known my wife's for three months when she first applied for a visit visa. She was paid in cash and 40% of her money was sent straight home, 40% went on rent so it was never banked. I just pointed that out and explained that the rest went on living for week to week. It was never questioned and the visa was issued in a couple of weeks.

 

I offered the OP a copy of my sponsor letters when I saw this same thread on a different forum. They are a good starting point and show what is required, If Pat wants some help, I am quite happy to let him have a copy of the sponsor letters etc that I did for my girlfriend who is now my wife. If he wants me to help writing a sponsor letter, again I am happy to help. Having said that I am not going to do it all for him. He needs to send me the sponsor letter he has written and then I will edit it. I have sent those same letters to numerous people who have had successful applications. Some have written the whole thing themselves. Others I have edited.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm ok if that's all the same. I know what to do just looking for a few pointers so I have all my bases covered, or at least most of them.

 

Was your sponsor letter like a begging letter, I mean over nice?

Edited May 16, 2018 by Pat in Pattaya

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Thanks for the offer, but I'm ok if that's all the same. I know what to do just looking for a few pointers so I have all my bases covered, or at least most of them.

 

Was your sponsor letter like a begging letter, I mean over nice?

Dear Sirs,

My name is XXXXXXXXXXXXX, British Citizen, passport number XXXXXXXXXXX. Copy included.            I would appreciate you issuing a Visitor’s Visa for my partner of ten years Ms KxxxxxxxxxPxxxxxxx in order to visit my family in UK from 1^st June until 5^th July 2018.

I shall be funding the entire trip as I have done three times previously and include recent copies of my UK current Bank account.

We shall be staying with my brother David in Bxxxxxxx Berkshire and brother Stephen in Mxxxxxxx Wiltshire.

 

 

Thank you.                This worked THREE times.

[Pat in Pattaya]

3 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Dear Sirs,

My name is XXXXXXXXXXXXX, British Citizen, passport number XXXXXXXXXXX. Copy included.            I would appreciate you issuing a Visitor’s Visa for my partner of ten years Ms KxxxxxxxxxPxxxxxxx in order to visit my family in UK from 1^st June until 5^th July 2018.

I shall be funding the entire trip as I have done three times previously and include recent copies of my UK current Bank account.

We shall be staying with my brother David in Bxxxxxxx Berkshire and brother Stephen in Mxxxxxxx Wiltshire.

 

 

Thank you.                This worked THREE times.

Is that really all you put? Fair dues.

[rasg]

25 minutes ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Thanks for the offer, but I'm ok if that's all the same. I know what to do just looking for a few pointers so I have all my bases covered, or at least most of them.

 

Was your sponsor letter like a begging letter, I mean over nice?

No it wasn't. I have read loads of sponsor letters that are full of emotion and light on facts.

 

PM me an email address and I will email you a PDF of each. They are a good starting point and probably a bit wordy. The last page is an index of the contents to show the ECO want is included and where to find it.

[tryasimight]

On 5/14/2018 at 6:04 PM, theoldgit said:

Not quite that simple I'm afraid, whilst any sponsor will need to satisfy the ECO that they have sufficient funds to sponsor an applicant, and of course the source of the funds, but they also have to satisfy the ECO that it's appropriate and reasonaable for them to do so.

Don't want to but in here....BUT,,,from the Australian Governments point if view its not how many bucks/pounds you have that gets you the visa BUT the risk of not returning, is the main criterion.

The link to prostitution etc is obvious as there is a similar issue with ladies from the Philippines.

 

Obviously every country has their own additional hoops to jump through, but as distasteful as it is what I said above is underlying every time.

[Pat in Pattaya]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

Don't want to but in here....BUT,,,from the Australian Governments point if view its not how many bucks/pounds you have that gets you the visa BUT the risk of not returning, is the main criterion.

The link to prostitution etc is obvious as there is a similar issue with ladies from the Philippines.

 

Obviously every country has their own additional hoops to jump through, but as distasteful as it is what I said above is underlying every time.

Of course you are correct, at the end of the day how much money does one need for what is essiantially a holiday?

[tryasimight]

1 minute ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Of course you are correct, at the end of the day how much money does one need for what is essiantially a holiday?

When I took the now wife to Australia it involved more than just holiday money to get a tourist visa. It wasn't hard to do.....just had to be done right.

 

Its not about the money.

[Pat in Pattaya]

15 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

When I took the now wife to Australia it involved more than just holiday money to get a tourist visa. It wasn't hard to do.....just had to be done right.

 

Its not about the money.

That's right, I think we get it....End of the day, how many people have genuinely been knocked back because they can't afford 3 weeks in Barnsley?

 

I think we all get the message here.

[roo860]

Dear Sirs,

My name is XXXXXXXXXXXXX, British Citizen, passport number XXXXXXXXXXX. Copy included.            I would appreciate you issuing a Visitor’s Visa for my partner of ten years Ms KxxxxxxxxxPxxxxxxx in order to visit my family in UK from 1^st June until 5^th July 2018.

I shall be funding the entire trip as I have done three times previously and include recent copies of my UK current Bank account.

We shall be staying with my brother David in Bxxxxxxx Berkshire and brother Stephen in Mxxxxxxx Wiltshire.

 

 

Thank you.                This worked THREE times.

Enough info, I did pretty much the same for my wife's first visit this year, also followed excellent advice from the 'oldgit'.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[samsensam]

25 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

When I took the now wife to Australia it involved more than just holiday money to get a tourist visa. It wasn't hard to do.....just had to be done right.

 

Its not about the money.

 

right. it's about being open and honest. i have many friends who regularly travel abroad alone and with their families - non has ever been refused a tourist visa. sometimes i check their visa application forms, they are all completely honest; no padded bank accounts, no false claims, no agents - it's not had to apply for a visa, and they state the genuine reason why they will return to thailand; to continue their studies, work, family etc. if immigration smell a rat anywhere in the application i agree they should turn it down, too many people have abused the system.

[cfrsh91]

On 5/14/2018 at 9:41 AM, Tigger01 said:

Spend an hour or so reading the UK embassy website for Visa application and save yourself some money, no need to pay an agent. I've done it for my girlfriend and my friend girlfriend, happy to help you if you like.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

On 5/13/2018 at 11:52 PM, rasg said:

You seem to be doing the rounds of the forums.

 

Email me your last sponsor letter and the letters from the three of them and I will try and help.

 

Cheers.

 

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the replies. I must admit I've only just caught up on all of this as I thought I would get an email notification of replies and I didn't!

Regardless, below is the refusal letter.

 

As stated previously, regarding the refusal points, to address them we plan to explain as follows:

 

1) The two deposits of 40,000 THB were actually the amounts that her mother would contribute towards her trip, so are we okay to explain this in her introduction letter, if we include a letter from her mother stating this and where it came from? One of the 40,000 THB actually came from her grandmother's account at her parent's request, although this was family savings - we are planning to include a letter for her Grandma to sign which will confirm this.

 

2) To address the second point regarding the 100,000 THB issue as she had put that this would be the cost of the trip to her.. The English question reads "what is the cost of the trip to you personally?" but she has said that the Thai translation of this question reads along the lines of "how much are you going to use on your trip", which she assumed included the cost of the trip to me as her sponsor also, and therefore gave too large a figure considering the amount she will need to spend will be small.

 

3) Her mother's bank statements having unexplained deposits. The deposits actually came from work that she does selling farm produce at market, although she has no record of this other than that which is recorded in a book which she uses to keep records (so no receipts etc.). Regarding this point, are we okay to draw from this that the main reason this was given for refusal was due to the funds not being available solely for her and to counter this by stating that the funds are now in her bank account?

 

@rasg and @Tigger01 thank you for your generous offers, I will send you guys over our letters and supporting information we intend to put on her application form shortly.

 

 

 

 

[7by7]

16 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Question - If you plan not to include the applicants finances (no water muddying) but she has a job, all be it a commission only job for a large clothing company, it that worth mentioning or could it open a can of worms?

 

I see that you've already had an answer from other posters; but as promised here's mine.

 

Having a job can help towards the reason to return. Although in your case as you and your wife live together in Thailand you can be her reason to return; simply outline your situation and living arrangements and provide evidence of your immigration staus in Thailand.

 

She should, of course, mention her employment where asked in the application form. If she wishes to use it to add to her reeasons to return then she should obtain a letter from her boss, on company headed notepaper, confirming her employment with them, that she has been gfranted a leave of absense and when she is expected back. It is possible that the visa section will phone gthis letter's signatory to confirm the contents. If the letter is written in English they will expect to speak to this person in English and doubt the letter's authenticity if they are unable to do so. If the letter is written in Thai then they will speak to the signatory in Thai. 

[7by7]

10 hours ago, Rolanddrums said:

I think what  many would like to know in situations where long term GF has no regular job/bank statements/land in her name is:- What is the best answer to put in the 'Reason to return to Thailand' box?  I'm talking about ,UK, tourist Visa's for holiday purposes and applicants that have a good Sponsor here. (eg Boyfriend with own home/money etc.) One person wrote 'reason to return' was if she didnt, he would withdraw all financial support from her . Seems reasonable. Any other suggestions?

The most common is saying that they understand overstaying a visit visa could put a future settlemnt application at risk.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

Of course you are correct, at the end of the day how much money does one need for what is essiantially a holiday?

 

4 hours ago, Pat in Pattaya said:

That's right, I think we get it....End of the day, how many people have genuinely been knocked back because they can't afford 3 weeks in Barnsley?

 

I think we all get the message here.

 

As far as the UK is concerened, there is no minimum amount of funds required for a visit visa application. It all depends on the length of the visit and what one will be doing.

 

For example, hiring a car and touring the country and staying in hotels for a month will need more money than staying with friends or family for 6 months with occassional day trips.

[7by7]

49 minutes ago, cfrsh91 said:

Thanks for the replies. I must admit I've only just caught up on all of this as I thought I would get an email notification of replies and I didn't!

Regardless, below is the refusal letter

One phrase occurs several times in the refusal with regard to her available finances: "without explanation." 

 

It is the unexplained acquisition of funds by both her and her mother which caused the ECO to doubt her intentions; as they say in the refusal.

 

Had she explained where these various funds came from, I strongly suspect that her application would have been approved.

 

So do this in her next application, saying that you forgot to do so in her last.

 

56 minutes ago, cfrsh91 said:

2) To address the second point regarding the 100,000 THB issue as she had put that this would be the cost of the trip to her.. The English question reads "what is the cost of the trip to you personally?" but she has said that the Thai translation of this question reads along the lines of "how much are you going to use on your trip", which she assumed included the cost of the trip to me as her sponsor also, and therefore gave too large a figure considering the amount she will need to spend will be small

 

This is why I always check applications by my Thai family members before hitting the submit button; even my step son's and he speaks fluent English!

 

Again, explain the error in her next application, saying that the actual costs to her will be minimal because you are paying for her trip.

[cfrsh91]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

One phrase occurs several times in the refusal with regard to her available finances: "without explanation." 

 

It is the unexplained acquisition of funds by both her and her mother which caused the ECO to doubt her intentions; as they say in the refusal.

 

Had she explained where these various funds came from, I strongly suspect that her application would have been approved.

 

So do this in her next application, saying that you forgot to do so in her last.

 

 

This is why I always check applications by my Thai family members before hitting the submit button; even my step son's and he speaks fluent English!

 

Again, explain the error in her next application, saying that the actual costs to her will be minimal because you are paying for her trip.

Thanks, that is our plan to do both of those - shame it wasn't done in the first place but hey-ho!

 

I fear however that we have opened ourselves to further scrutiny of her mother's finances as she has approximately 300,000 THB which was deposited in her account as cash over a 3 month period of Dec '17 to Feb '18.. Her mother sells farm produce, cattle, land etc and records all of this in a ledger which my GF has to make copies of, but it appears that she kept a large amount of money as cash and decided to deposit most of it into the bank during this period.

 

We've looked through the ledger and can only account for around 1/3 of the deposited cash over the 6 months prior, which is the period that the statement is for.

Question is, do we need to produce/explain a statement from her mother now that the cash is in my GF's account and accounted for?

Or can we just draw on the ECO's statement regarding the funds being 'available solely for your exclusive use'?

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, cfrsh91 said:

Question is, do we need to produce/explain a statement from her mother now that the cash is in my GF's account and accounted for?

Or can we just draw on the ECO's statement regarding the funds being 'available solely for your exclusive use'?

You need to explain where the money has come from; but you do not need to produce detailed accounts and reciepts. This is a visa application, not a VAT return!

 

Simply expalin it as you have here; money is from her mother who raised it over x period from selling farm produce, cattle etc.

 

 

[Pat in Pattaya]

7by7 = the voice of reason.

[Rolanddrums]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The most common is saying that they understand overstaying a visit visa could put a future settlemnt application at risk.

Thanks . Short & sweet to . I think unless ones GF genuinely has proper long term job, regular income from  bank with reasonable balance etc etc..Thats the answer I would be inclined to give now.

[cfrsh91]

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

You need to explain where the money has come from; but you do not need to produce detailed accounts and reciepts. This is a visa application, not a VAT return!

 

Simply expalin it as you have here; money is from her mother who raised it over x period from selling farm produce, cattle etc.

 

 

I understand, however I'm just concerned that it may seem suspicious if we omit her mother's statements from the second application or fail to provide detailed evidence of how it got there, especially as this was a reason for refusal previously.

 

Do you think then that we can draw on the ECO's statement regarding the funds being 'available solely for your exclusive use' and just explain briefly where they came from, how this has been resolved (funds now in her account, not mother's), and leave out the statement/ledgers?

 

I don't want to open up a further can of worms by trying to prove where 300,000 THB cash came from but at the same time I don't want to seem like I'm trying to hide it's origin.

 

How would the ECO view the above is what I guess I'm trying to get at?

[rasg]

3 hours ago, cfrsh91 said:

I understand, however I'm just concerned that it may seem suspicious if we omit her mother's statements from the second application or fail to provide detailed evidence of how it got there, especially as this was a reason for refusal previously.

 

Do you think then that we can draw on the ECO's statement regarding the funds being 'available solely for your exclusive use' and just explain briefly where they came from, how this has been resolved (funds now in her account, not mother's), and leave out the statement/ledgers?

 

I don't want to open up a further can of worms by trying to prove where 300,000 THB cash came from but at the same time I don't want to seem like I'm trying to hide it's origin.

 

How would the ECO view the above is what I guess I'm trying to get at?

I agree with you. You need to address the reasons for refusal in the first application. An detailed explanation in your sponsor letter plus the bank statements to confirm the information in your letter should be sufficient.

 

You also need to explain that the visa company gave you very bad advice and you are no longer using them. You will also need to show a reason, or reasons, to return.

Edited May 17, 2018 by rasg

[cfrsh91]

1 hour ago, rasg said:

I agree with you. You need to address the reasons for refusal in the first application. An detailed explanation in your sponsor letter plus the bank statements to confirm the information in your letter should be sufficient.

Apologies for my confusion, do you mean her bank statements or her mother's?

I'm just worried that if I attach her mother's statement then they will expect evidence of where the money came from, especially considering it was deposited in cash etc.

[rasg]

Too confusing posting on here and sending emails too! Just sent you loads of needed changes.

[7by7]

12 hours ago, cfrsh91 said:

Apologies for my confusion, do you mean her bank statements or her mother's?

Both; hers to show the money comin g in from her mother, her mother's to show that she had the money in the first place.

 

12 hours ago, cfrsh91 said:

I'm just worried that if I attach her mother's statement then they will expect evidence of where the money came from, especially considering it was deposited in cash etc

The ECOs are well aware that Thailand is to a large extent a cash economy and detailed paperwork is not the norm. A brief explanation of where her mother got the money, from selling farm produce, cattle etc. and periodically paying it into her bank, should suffice.

[cfrsh91]

On 5/18/2018 at 8:19 AM, 7by7 said:

Both; hers to show the money comin g in from her mother, her mother's to show that she had the money in the first place.

 

The ECOs are well aware that Thailand is to a large extent a cash economy and detailed paperwork is not the norm. A brief explanation of where her mother got the money, from selling farm produce, cattle etc. and periodically paying it into her bank, should suffice.

Hi all,

 

Just wanted to update you all as today my OH got her visitor visa for July on the second attempt!

We went overkill with explanations and supporting evidence - but it seems that overkill worked a charm in this case!

I guess it goes to show that you don't always need a 'total re-write' when you're up against it - and that one person's confusion does not always equal another's - sometimes just explaining things in adequate detail can do the trick.

 

Thanks @7by7 and anyone else who contributed positively, your advice worked a charm!

 

Chris