China to Australia: Remove 'coloured glasses' to get ties back on track

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, lionsincity said:

 

They have to because else they get stuck with an aging population problem

It's not a problem at all. In fact, the market for taking care of the aged is going to be about the only growth industry as AI and automation take most jobs from people.

[car720]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is all out of date thinking. AI and automation is going to make the vast majority of the population unemployed. Immigration is the last thing they need now. The future is in reducing the population as fast as possible, to reduce the need to pay out vast sums on supporting the no longer employable.

I'm think voluntary euthanasia on demand and no longer paying people to have children along with free contraception and abortion on demand.

Australia just acquired 50,000 new unemployed after the car industry ceased to exist.

Ah yes.  It is a brave new world that we face and that is for sure.

I relate to the 104 year old scientist who  said that he cannot live in a world without dignity and respect.  I had to have a long conversation with  my wife the other day about why it is necessary for us to die in the end.  I would never make it as a Captain America and that is also for sure.

[geriatrickid]

This is what happens when  a country whores itself out. Australia is not alone on this, as Canada  and many African and Latin American countries are no better.

 

[tonbridgebrit]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

This is what happens when  a country whores itself out. Australia is not alone on this, as Canada  and many African and Latin American countries are no better.

 

If this is how you feel, how comes you didn't add the USA onto the list of countries ?  ?

[tonbridgebrit]

On 5/22/2018 at 7:10 AM, BEVUP said:

So why do they need immigration for population growth if most manufacturing has gone overseas due to taxes & high energy costs

Immigration is needed if Australia wants population growth. The issue is not linked to manufacturing.

Basically, Australia's birth-rate is low, and this is because of mass use of contraceptives. If every Aussie lady actually gave birth to three or four kids, well, Australia wouldn't need "immigration for population growth."


And yes, new migrants are needed. The percentage of Australians who are old is increasing all the time. Need to have more young people to work and support the pensioners. The pensions are paid, using taxes from working people.

Edited May 23, 2018 by tonbridgebrit

[mfd101]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is all out of date thinking. AI and automation is going to make the vast majority of the population unemployed. Immigration is the last thing they need now. The future is in reducing the population as fast as possible, to reduce the need to pay out vast sums on supporting the no longer employable.

I'm think voluntary euthanasia on demand and no longer paying people to have children along with free contraception and abortion on demand.

Australia just acquired 50,000 new unemployed after the car industry ceased to exist.

Great ideas there. Perhaps all retirees, including expats, should be taken out at dawn and shot.

[Odysseus123]

42 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Great ideas there. Perhaps all retirees, including expats, should be taken out at dawn and shot.

Well...only if they are shot in an humane way..

 

Seriously tho' the retirement age is now 67 and most of the people I know of that age are still in a serious amount of debt.

 

Strangely enough,many have benefited by the influx of immigrants driving up house prices in the cities to astronomical levels because they sell their homes and move to coastal areas (in my case) way north of Sydney.These areas then become a kind of sunny God's Waiting Room.

 

The rather beautiful valley that I live in has virtually no intensive agriculture left as the Australian yeoman farmers as a group have been pretty much destroyed.

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Well...only if they are shot in an humane way..

 

Seriously tho' the retirement age is now 67 and most of the people I know of that age are still in a serious amount of debt.

 

Strangely enough,many have benefited by the influx of immigrants driving up house prices in the cities to astronomical levels because they sell their homes and move to coastal areas (in my case) way north of Sydney.These areas then become a kind of sunny God's Waiting Room.

 

The rather beautiful valley that I live in has virtually no intensive agriculture left as the Australian yeoman farmers as a group have been pretty much destroyed.

Your valley is very nice. And moving from Sydney to the countryside is like me moving from Canberra to Surin province: a smart move financially but of course it's a one-way trip, and has many social, cultural & psychological advantages (as well as some social, cultural & psychological costs).

 

But if people are still "in a serious amount of debt" at 67, they really haven't organized their life very well, it seems to me.

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, mfd101 said:

Your valley is very nice. And moving from Sydney to the countryside is like me moving from Canberra to Surin province: a smart move financially but of course it's a one-way trip, and has many social, cultural & psychological advantages (as well as some social, cultural & psychological costs).

 

But if people are still "in a serious amount of debt" at 67, they really haven't organized their life very well, it seems to me.

To correct a point or two.

 

No I moved to a province right next to yours,found it a losing proposition in terms of health and old age and then moved back to the golden valley as I called it.I determined that that was the best use of my resources.

 

The reason why I posted the photo is that it is empty of agriculture now and that has certainly not been the case for the last 4 generations-it has gone out of intensive production.Sooner or later it will become a retirement area that is essentially a service type of economy.To have that type of economy without commensurate production means high taxation and many hidden charges.So,as far as I am concerned it is not gold but iron pyrites.

 

Therefore I feel the Chinese are quite correct-Australia does need to take of its rose coloured glasses,encourage entrepenurial businesses not related to the service sector but of genuine production and tackle the problem of an aging population kept at the coal face (a form of taxation) whilst youth unemployment is on the rise.

 

The Turnbull gov't with Julie Bishop needs to pull its head in.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Odysseus123

[Kiwiken]

On 5/22/2018 at 10:10 AM, FitnessHealthTravel said:

China needs to be pulled in for sure. They think they can buy their way to world dominance through owning infrastructure projects, bonds and shares.  The crazy purchasing of real estate has been pulled right back by Australia and rightly so.  Now they want to put a Navel base in the South pacific by offering  huge financial assistance to smaller Nations.  This of course will not fly with Australia, NZ and it's allies and rightly so.  China has had a good run under the Obama Administration that allowed it to suppress it's currency and cheat its way to wealth and power. It's going to hard for them to go backwards.  Coloured glasses, I think not.

Just a point on buying and controlling infrastructure. Australia owns all but One of New Zealand major Banks therefore controlling most of the NZ mortgage Market. Also many large NZ Firms have been bought by Australian Companies, Closed and the jobs shipped to Australia. Mondelez being a good example closing the Dunedin Cadbury's factory (eliminating many Favorite NZ confections in the process) and moving Manufacturing to Australia. So the indignation with China is kind of the pot calling the Kettle black

[simple1]

14 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Well...only if they are shot in an humane way..

 

Seriously tho' the retirement age is now 67 and most of the people I know of that age are still in a serious amount of debt.

 

Strangely enough,many have benefited by the influx of immigrants driving up house prices in the cities to astronomical levels because they sell their homes and move to coastal areas (in my case) way north of Sydney.These areas then become a kind of sunny God's Waiting Room.

 

The rather beautiful valley that I live in has virtually no intensive agriculture left as the Australian yeoman farmers as a group have been pretty much destroyed.

Looks like the Clarence River area, is that correct?

[car720]

16 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Great ideas there. Perhaps all retirees, including expats, should be taken out at dawn and shot.

Me first.  

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Looks like the Clarence River area, is that correct?

An educated guess-but no....

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Great ideas there. Perhaps all retirees, including expats, should be taken out at dawn and shot.

555555555555555555.

Where do I say anything like that?

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Immigration is needed if Australia wants population growth. The issue is not linked to manufacturing.

Basically, Australia's birth-rate is low, and this is because of mass use of contraceptives. If every Aussie lady actually gave birth to three or four kids, well, Australia wouldn't need "immigration for population growth."


And yes, new migrants are needed. The percentage of Australians who are old is increasing all the time. Need to have more young people to work and support the pensioners. The pensions are paid, using taxes from working people.

Need to have more young people to work and support the pensioners. The pensions are paid, using taxes from working people.

Your statement might have merit if there were actually jobs for them to do. Did you miss the bit where I point out that Australia just lost 50,000 good jobs.

There is no point importing people when there is no work for them to do.

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Need to have more young people to work and support the pensioners. The pensions are paid, using taxes from working people.

Your statement might have merit if there were actually jobs for them to do. Did you miss the bit where I point out that Australia just lost 50,000 good jobs.

There is no point importing people when there is no work for them to do.

 

Sure there is.  With the wages of the masses stagnant, the only way to increase consumer spending (which dominates the GDP numbers) is to import more consumers.  Let's face it, once you have them spending 100% of their income, then get them maxed out on debt, the masses are no longer sufficient to meet the needs of the capitalists.  So, rather than let wages creep up (with the associated increase in spending power) it's more appealing to import more consumers.  And, as a bonus, that's more low wage labor.   2 birds with one stone for the 1%. 

 

Sure, the little guys get shafted.  But that's today's capitalism.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, impulse said:

 

Sure there is.  With the wages of the masses stagnant, the only way to increase consumer spending (which dominates the GDP numbers) is to import more consumers.  Let's face it, once you have them spending 100% of their income, then get them maxed out on debt, the masses are no longer sufficient to meet the needs of the capitalists.  So, rather than let wages creep up (with the associated increase in spending power) it's more appealing to import more consumers.  And, as a bonus, that's more low wage labor.   2 birds with one stone for the 1%. 

 

Sure, the little guys get shafted.  But that's today's capitalism.

 

Took me a minute to get what you were really saying. I agree.

[geriatrickid]

19 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

If this is how you feel, how comes you didn't add the USA onto the list of countries ?  ?

Because the Americans are protectionist. It is quite difficult to do business in the USA despite claims to the contrary. Australia, Canada and a few other countries have literally dropped their pants hoping for a payday that isn't coming. Unfortunately, the Chinese bully and abuse  Australian & Canadian exporters  and businesses.

[spacebass]

Every country has to beware of being bought by the chinese. Including the U.S.A. bonds ?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Check the OP.   It has something to do with China and Australia, not USA or Trump.

 

[tonbridgebrit]

I really do feel that people are being silly when putting on display their anti-China sentiments.

Okay, Australia is exporting a huge amount of coal and iron-ore to China, and what's wrong with this ? Nothing, it just means more money for Australia. It would be crazy to try and reduce the amount of coal and iron-ore being exported. There's also more and more Chinese tourists turning up in Australia, and this is also good, it means valuable tourism revenue. And property developers who build houses, and the houses are sometimes sold to Chinese investors, nothing wrong with that. Money is flowing into Australia when the houses are being sold.


So what exactly is the problem in Australia ? Well, I think it's this. Take the mining companies selling coal and iron-ore to China. The profits are going into the hands of the shareholders of those companies, in dividends, bearing in mind that a lot of the shareholders live in places like London and New York. If Australia was to nationalise the mining companies, or force them to pay extra high taxes, then, this would benefit Australia more. The money generated can be used to pay government pensions, hospitals, schools, etc.

And what about houses ? How about slap extra taxes on sales of new houses, make them Chinese investors pay more for real estate. And the extra revenue will be used to build government housing, housing that is for those people born in Australia. Again, this will benefit Australian people in a bigger way.

[tonbridgebrit]

So, lets not have this silly anti-China sentiment, and see if Australia can target the money flowing into Australia, Chinese and non-Chinese money, and make this money benefit Australian people in a bigger way.

Edited May 24, 2018 by tonbridgebrit

[lannarebirth]

 

Quote

 

A secret government report uncovered China’s attempts to influence all levels of politics in Australia

 

Quote

It was the work of this inquiry, which also looked into China's influence attempts on the media and academia, that led Turnbull to propose new laws targeting espionage, foreign political donations and foreign interference in December 2017.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/secret-australian-government-report-uncovered-china-influence-campaign-2018-5

 

 

[lannarebirth]

Western intelligence is warning that Chinese influence in New Zealand is at a 'critical' level

 

Quote

 

The report, which is based on presentations at an academic conference but does not represent the security service's formal views, says New Zealand faces "a concerted foreign interference campaign" from China, which wants to "access strategic information and resources" and build support for its objectives "by co-opting political and economic elites" in New Zealand.

These efforts have taken the form of business opportunities, investments, scholarships, and vanity projects to win over local business elites; attempts to bring local Chinese communities under Beijing's sway and influence voting habits; and the use of acquisitions and partnerships with New Zealand companies and universities to establish a local presence, expand influence, and gain access to military technology, commercial secrets, and other valuable information.

Chinese Communist Party leadership regards New Zealand as "an exemplar" of the kind of relationship it wants with other countries, the report says, adding that China's "political influence activities in New Zealand have now reached a critical level."

http://www.businessinsider.com/western-intelligence-agencies-warn-of-chinese-influence-in-new-zealand-2018-6

[BEVUP]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Western intelligence is warning that Chinese influence in New Zealand is at a 'critical' level

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/western-intelligence-agencies-warn-of-chinese-influence-in-new-zealand-2018-6

Who cares about NZ 

They rely on Auss for work /ect as non Citz taking their jobs, while Aussies are on the dole 

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

Who cares about NZ 

They rely on Auss for work /ect as non Citz taking their jobs, while Aussies are on the dole 

 

Not a strategic thinker, eh?

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

gain access to military technology

I wouldn't worry about that too much. I don't think NZ has much of anything military left to access.

Army Even the advertising is more about rescuing people in natural disasters than actually killing people.

Airforce 

Navy A couple of missiles could eliminate that.

 

All a bit sad if one remembers when NZ actually had a decent ( for it's population size ) military, and actually fought in a real war.

Edited June 5, 2018 by thaibeachlovers