Proof That Los Hippies Have Been Forced Out Due To Visa

[Dupont]

To earn respect you must first give respect. How true is that?

So all I would say to those clearly so fond of supporting this raft of human flotsom is to advise them that to earn respect in Thailand they must first show respect to their hosts. That means dressing smartly ( a few magazines may help here as they can look at the pictures ). It also means dressing respectively in accordance with local customs. So highly educated are they that many of the female varieties of this street dross expose their chests excessivly as if they were in Chelsea High Street. The showing of breasts to that degree is lewd practice in Thailand, but of course respectibility could not have formed part of those people's education. From the comments made it also appears that Brut is the first advert that that poster can remember and hence gives an indication of their age group which may explain your acceptance of the loss of values typified by that persons support for this group of individuals.

Thats right about dress there. Many seem to think they are here to educate the Thais on how to look cool and trendy by being smelly and unwashed.

Dealings with Thai Authorities and people in all walks of life is a pleasant breeze when you are smartly dressed, compared to turning up with a lonely planet book in one hand, your rucksack on and a nose ring.

The only people we upset over here are the over-educated ie. educated beyond their intelect, dross that walk round here labeling everybody who doesn't go to full moon parties, or stay on Khao San Road, a sex tourist.

[GuestHouse]

To earn respect you must first give respect. How true is that?

So all I would say to those clearly so fond of supporting this raft of human flotsom is to advise them that to earn respect in Thailand they must first show respect to their hosts. That means dressing smartly ( a few magazines may help here as they can look at the pictures ). It also means dressing respectively in accordance with local customs. So highly educated are they that many of the female varieties of this street dross expose their chests excessivly as if they were in Chelsea High Street. The showing of breasts to that degree is lewd practice in Thailand, but of course respectibility could not have formed part of those people's education. From the comments made it also appears that Brut is the first advert that that poster can remember and hence gives an indication of their age group which may explain your acceptance of the loss of values typified by that persons support for this group of individuals.

Gummy, I thought you where ranting about backpackers, now I'm not so sure, what you have said here seems to apply to most the sexpats one sees staggering around Thailand.

[Robski]

Quite right good comment SBK, shame though he has to do his usual holier than thou bit and try and label anyone that would disagree as some kind of resentful lowlife.

Nah, not at all, but I am inclined to the wild fanciful guess, and it is my wild fanciful guess that those who rant about backpackers are on the whole people who themselves have no higher education.

Let's be right here, the I'm making a counter argument to the 'holier than thou' attack on backpackers.

Fair enough GH. You have a certain view on life, but when you want to to talk about predjudice, it's hypocritical and detrimental to your own viewpoint to use generalized and predjudicial language against those that may disagree with you.

Some middle aged guy, looking back on his own youth which was p1ssed away in the local pub with the highlight of a ten day holiday on the Costa Del Sol once a year. Comes to Thailand and sees young people, educated, not yet loaded with life’s responsibilities, enough money in their pocket to see the world and a local girl on their arm who actually wants to be their because the guy is the same age and can attract a girl with looks rather than waving a purple passion voucher. Yeh I can understand while the balding pate would pucker and the old sagging guts would gripe a bit.

I mean, come on you are assuming quite a lot here and in fact being quite offensive,

do you think this is the only motivation of the OP or anyone who dislikes crusties?

Edited January 30, 2007 by Robski

[britmaveric]

To earn respect you must first give respect. How true is that?

So all I would say to those clearly so fond of supporting this raft of human flotsom is to advise them that to earn respect in Thailand they must first show respect to their hosts. That means dressing smartly ( a few magazines may help here as they can look at the pictures ). It also means dressing respectively in accordance with local customs. So highly educated are they that many of the female varieties of this street dross expose their chests excessivly as if they were in Chelsea High Street. The showing of breasts to that degree is lewd practice in Thailand, but of course respectibility could not have formed part of those people's education. From the comments made it also appears that Brut is the first advert that that poster can remember and hence gives an indication of their age group which may explain your acceptance of the loss of values typified by that persons support for this group of individuals.

Gummy, I thought you where ranting about backpackers, now I'm not so sure, what you have said here seems to apply to most the sexpats one sees staggering around Thailand.

women sexpats???

[samran]

GH says it all with this sensible response:

If Thailand had any sense they would realize that attracting well educated people to spend time in Thailand when they are young is a great way to build loyalty among the people who will later be able to afford the up market hotels and holidays that Thailand is trying to promote.

I think Thailand already does it. I mean, I can't for the life of me think how changes to the visa rules would affect the itinary of the average backpacker. None of them are going to stay that long. If an Aussie, they are either on their way to the UK to work for a couple of years, or if a Pom, Irishman or Scandanavian, they headed to OZ and NZ to do the same thing. They spend their money here (and on the way back), and most of the time, I think they do (and feel they do) get value for money out of it. The israeli's love it here too after doing their army stint.

As a former backpacker, transport connections for that type of travel in Thailand are wonderful, making it one of the easiest places to travel in my opinion. People are friendly, and you just don't come across the same scams that some of the older crusties seem to be whinging about. Instead of wondering about the potential cures for sick buffalo's, the younger ones are busy chasing the fit Swedish chick they saw on the beach that morning...

It creates a good impression, and people do come back at a later stage.

As for the policy side of it, Thailand already has a 'working holiday' agreement with OZ, meaning those under 30 from OZ can come here and do the working holiday thing here. I understand NZ is looking to do something similar. Small steps, but a start.

[GuestHouse]

women sexpats???

No, overweight late middle aged sexpats with 'man tits'.

[britmaveric]

women sexpats???

No, overweight late middle aged sexpats with 'man tits'.

Hmmm seems you have an inherent bias to these lads - don't be such a miserable git. Backpackers don't bother me, nor should sexpats bother you.

Edited January 30, 2007 by britmaveric

[pumpuiman]

There seems to be a grouping of backpackers, young people and hippies in this post.

I would not group them together by any means.

Backpackers are people traveling on a budget.....I did it for years, but always researched the country I was about to travel to.(thats half the fun, for me) I always tried to respect the culture of the place.

It is a common paragraph in all literature I have read about Thailand...to dress respectfully.

Hippies in filthy pajamas, and matted hair...or braless halter tops, offends Thai people.

I believe the term used to describe these hippies was "Farang kee nok" which translates to..."Bird Sh1t foreigner"

My Thai friends, my Thai wife, and I were surprised and disgusted with the "hippie" culture in Pai.

I have nothing against young people traveling. Nothing against backpacking.

But have some common sense and respect for the people you are the guest of.

[gummy]

There seems to be a grouping of backpackers, young people and hippies in this post.

I would not group them together by any means.

Backpackers are people traveling on a budget.....I did it for years, but always researched the country I was about to travel to.(thats half the fun, for me) I always tried to respect the culture of the place.

It is a common paragraph in all literature I have read about Thailand...to dress respectfully.

Hippies in filthy pajamas, and matted hair...or braless halter tops, offends Thai people.

I believe the term used to describe these hippies was "Farang kee nok" which translates to..."Bird Sh1t foreigner"

My Thai friends, my Thai wife, and I were surprised and disgusted with the "hippie" culture in Pai.

I have nothing against young people travelling. Nothing against backpacking.

But have some common sense and respect for the people you are the guest of.

I wholeheartedly agree and thus in line with the subject matter title I have discussed Hippies in my responses. Clearly some of those "Well educated" Hippy supporters have erroneously included back-packers in their thoughts, either that or their education is not as good as they profess and are unable to understand the differances.

Also like you, my Thai wife, our children and her family would expect them to show respect as they do when in foreign countries.

[meadish_sweetball]

Everyone is reminded to refrain from flaming other posters in their responses.

[johnnyk]

Well, at least they are travelling rather than sitting home in front of the tube or doing mindless vid games. That way there is a chance of them learning something about the world and its peoples.

Its the ones who never travel who scare me the most! Trust me on that, my sister's kids are the most boring and myopic people in the world.

[stranger_in_the_alps]

Having never been there, but planning to go in March, is Pai still worth a visit? Or has it been reduced to the rest of the over-touristed mess? I'm looking for 3 weeks of relative peace when I want it, but some semblance of nightlife within reasonable reach. Does such a place still exist in LOS?

[maccaroni man]

i agree that the op opened with the term "hippie" not budget traveler or backpacker. many of the goa crowd settled in koa samui and now run businesses with families and would be hard to identify as they don't have their freak flags flying. Khao San rd. went through a commercial transformation back in the 90's and in my humble opinion has not had the flavor of authenticity or original thinking since.

[loong]

Live and let live, that's what I think!

Yes, I'm not particularly impressed by the way some backpackers present themselves, but so what? They don't do me any harm.

Likewise, I don't particularly enjoy the sight of a 70 year old bloke slobbering over a 19 year old girl, I just try not to look.

Don't judge too harshly lest you be judged yourselves. I may have got that wrong. Mai Bpen Rai!

Relax people. I love Thailand because I'm allowed to be who I am.

[cdnvic]

I'm not close minded about backpackers at all, having had a few hostels myself. But the smelly layabouts that I'm talking about are not backpackers, they're the same deadbeat people that annoy me in Canada who Thailand can do without.

[stranger_in_the_alps]

Ya, the last time I was in Bangkok, a down and out human wreck with a California accent asked me for money to buy some food over by Ploenchit BTS. The guy smelled so bad I almost threw up in his face. That was late '05. From the looks of him, I doubt he still breathes today. Where do these indigent farang go to die and does the Thai government care for and burn them up for free?

[Johpa]

I was in Pai last year with a couple of Thai friends.After noticing their discomfort, I asked what was bothering them. They remarked to me about the disrespectful attitude of the hippies there. They pointed out the farang setting up makeshift street stalls selling beads and trinkets without permits, taking food from the local's mouths.

They remarked that they considered the manner of dress offensive to Thai people.

I got the same feeling about Pai. As if a part of Thailand had been raped by these people.

You would think that these liberal thinkers would have more respect for Thai culture and social norms....but it was not evident to me.

I believe lonely planet suggests proper dress and respect for local custom when traveling in Thailand.

I guess they missed that page.

Good riddance.

I have not been to Pai in almost 20 years. I don't remember it ever being a center for Thai people. It was a fairly small, actually tiny town that came into existence on the strength of the trekking opportunities. It was not a town that would have attracted many Thai people, and if I remember correctly, there were few enough Thai people around. And in fact, most Thai people would have felt singularly uncomfortable in a town populated and surrounded by minorities.

So for some city Thai, and their Farang friends, to complain about Pai, a town built upon the western world backpacker culture, is the height of hubris. Sort of like a Mexican complaining that Cabo was too American or a Nepali complaining about the western feel of Pokhara. Maybe I should go down to Miami so that I can complain that it is too Cuban.

Pai has not been raped, it has been caressed by these filthy hippie travellers who have put far more food into the mouths of the locals than has the Thai government over the same period of time.

And quite frankly, I will take the young, dreaded-locked, hippes with backpacks over the far more malignant neo-Sahib IT ex-pats any day.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Johpa

[chuchok]

I was in Pai last year with a couple of Thai friends.After noticing their discomfort, I asked what was bothering them. They remarked to me about the disrespectful attitude of the hippies there. They pointed out the farang setting up makeshift street stalls selling beads and trinkets without permits, taking food from the local's mouths.

They remarked that they considered the manner of dress offensive to Thai people.

I got the same feeling about Pai. As if a part of Thailand had been raped by these people.

You would think that these liberal thinkers would have more respect for Thai culture and social norms....but it was not evident to me.

I believe lonely planet suggests proper dress and respect for local custom when traveling in Thailand.

I guess they missed that page.

Good riddance.

I have not been to Pai in almost 20 years. I don't remember it ever being a center for Thai people. It was a fairly small, actually tiny town that came into existence on the strength of the trekking opportunities. It was not a town that would have attracted many Thai people, and if I remember correctly, there were few enough Thai people around. And in fact, most Thai people would have felt singularly uncomfortable in a town populated and surrounded by minorities.

So for some city Thai, and their Farang friends, to complain about Pai, a town built upon the western world backpacker culture, is the height of hubris. Sort of like a Mexican complaining that Cabo was too American or a Nepali complaining about the western feel of Pokhara. Maybe I should go down to Miami so that I can complain that it is too Cuban.

Pai has not been raped, it has been caressed by these filthy hippie travellers who have put far more food into the mouths of the locals than has the Thai government over the same period of time.

And quite frankly, I will take the young, dreaded-locked, hippes with backpacks over the far more malignant neo-Sahib IT ex-pats any day.

great post.I agree 100%.

[dantilley]

I was in Pai last year with a couple of Thai friends.After noticing their discomfort, I asked what was bothering them. They remarked to me about the disrespectful attitude of the hippies there. They pointed out the farang setting up makeshift street stalls selling beads and trinkets without permits, taking food from the local's mouths.

They remarked that they considered the manner of dress offensive to Thai people.

I got the same feeling about Pai. As if a part of Thailand had been raped by these people.

You would think that these liberal thinkers would have more respect for Thai culture and social norms....but it was not evident to me.

I believe lonely planet suggests proper dress and respect for local custom when traveling in Thailand.

I guess they missed that page.

Good riddance.

I have not been to Pai in almost 20 years. I don't remember it ever being a center for Thai people. It was a fairly small, actually tiny town that came into existence on the strength of the trekking opportunities. It was not a town that would have attracted many Thai people, and if I remember correctly, there were few enough Thai people around. And in fact, most Thai people would have felt singularly uncomfortable in a town populated and surrounded by minorities.

So for some city Thai, and their Farang friends, to complain about Pai, a town built upon the western world backpacker culture, is the height of hubris. Sort of like a Mexican complaining that Cabo was too American or a Nepali complaining about the western feel of Pokhara. Maybe I should go down to Miami so that I can complain that it is too Cuban.

Pai has not been raped, it has been caressed by these filthy hippie travellers who have put far more food into the mouths of the locals than has the Thai government over the same period of time.

And quite frankly, I will take the young, dreaded-locked, hippes with backpacks over the far more malignant neo-Sahib IT ex-pats any day.

great post.I agree 100%.

Me too. Except the bit about IT ex-pats, sounds a bit derogatory although I'm not sure what neo-Sahib means...

[grapetable]

Well, at least they are travelling rather than sitting home in front of the tube or doing mindless vid games. That way there is a chance of them learning something about the world and its peoples.

Its the ones who never travel who scare me the most! Trust me on that, my sister's kids are the most boring and myopic people in the world.

JohnnyK..........right on man!

[meadish_sweetball]

I was in Pai last year with a couple of Thai friends.After noticing their discomfort, I asked what was bothering them. They remarked to me about the disrespectful attitude of the hippies there. They pointed out the farang setting up makeshift street stalls selling beads and trinkets without permits, taking food from the local's mouths.

They remarked that they considered the manner of dress offensive to Thai people.

I got the same feeling about Pai. As if a part of Thailand had been raped by these people.

You would think that these liberal thinkers would have more respect for Thai culture and social norms....but it was not evident to me.

I believe lonely planet suggests proper dress and respect for local custom when traveling in Thailand.

I guess they missed that page.

Good riddance.

I have not been to Pai in almost 20 years. I don't remember it ever being a center for Thai people. It was a fairly small, actually tiny town that came into existence on the strength of the trekking opportunities. It was not a town that would have attracted many Thai people, and if I remember correctly, there were few enough Thai people around. And in fact, most Thai people would have felt singularly uncomfortable in a town populated and surrounded by minorities.

So for some city Thai, and their Farang friends, to complain about Pai, a town built upon the western world backpacker culture, is the height of hubris. Sort of like a Mexican complaining that Cabo was too American or a Nepali complaining about the western feel of Pokhara. Maybe I should go down to Miami so that I can complain that it is too Cuban.

Pai has not been raped, it has been caressed by these filthy hippie travellers who have put far more food into the mouths of the locals than has the Thai government over the same period of time.

And quite frankly, I will take the young, dreaded-locked, hippes with backpacks over the far more malignant neo-Sahib IT ex-pats any day.

Very good points, all of them. The Bangkok 'hip' elite, and indeed, mainstream Thais in general had no interest in the place whatsoever until fairly recently - once the media elite started to mention in TV interviews that they'd been to Pai, and some movies like รักจัง were recorded in the vicinity, and Thai national TV travel programs made the place known, the lemmings started to follow, much like the Western package tourists followed the backpackers some 5-6 years earlier.

Until recently, Pai in most Thais mind was non-existent, and would fall under Mae Hong Son.

For anyone who wants a more undeveloped valley, Phrao is just 1 hour north of Chiang Mai. More accessible, just as much beautiful nature around, plenty of hilltribes in the surrounding mountains. Only, there are hardly any backpackers there - hippies or otherwise...

Just don't expect to find a French restaurant, pizza, vegan food, meditation courses, cooking courses and trendy little coffee shops though. The night life, if you are lucky, will consist of laap dip mueang and lao khao. Do dress in your Sunday best, the locals will feel very respected.

Failing that, I hear Hot is all the rage now.

[Ricardo]

There is a world of difference, between backpackers and crusties, in my experience. Thailand benefits from the former, who often return in later life, with more money to spend. Many even marry Thais or retire here.

It's a pity that some expats, who are eductated & travelled and ought to know better, can't seem to see the distinction. Their loss.

[Zardoz]

I was in Pai last year with a couple of Thai friends.After noticing their discomfort, I asked what was bothering them. They remarked to me about the disrespectful attitude of the hippies there. They pointed out the farang setting up makeshift street stalls selling beads and trinkets without permits, taking food from the local's mouths.

They remarked that they considered the manner of dress offensive to Thai people.

I got the same feeling about Pai. As if a part of Thailand had been raped by these people.

You would think that these liberal thinkers would have more respect for Thai culture and social norms....but it was not evident to me.

I believe lonely planet suggests proper dress and respect for local custom when traveling in Thailand.

I guess they missed that page.

Good riddance.

I have not been to Pai in almost 20 years. I don't remember it ever being a center for Thai people. It was a fairly small, actually tiny town that came into existence on the strength of the trekking opportunities. It was not a town that would have attracted many Thai people, and if I remember correctly, there were few enough Thai people around. And in fact, most Thai people would have felt singularly uncomfortable in a town populated and surrounded by minorities.

So for some city Thai, and their Farang friends, to complain about Pai, a town built upon the western world backpacker culture, is the height of hubris. Sort of like a Mexican complaining that Cabo was too American or a Nepali complaining about the western feel of Pokhara. Maybe I should go down to Miami so that I can complain that it is too Cuban.

Pai has not been raped, it has been caressed by these filthy hippie travellers who have put far more food into the mouths of the locals than has the Thai government over the same period of time.

And quite frankly, I will take the young, dreaded-locked, hippes with backpacks over the far more malignant neo-Sahib IT ex-pats any day.

great post.I agree 100%.

Me too. Except the bit about IT ex-pats, sounds a bit derogatory although I'm not sure what neo-Sahib means...

Yes I have met some creepy IT types (am a non creepy one I think).

My feeling about the hippies are mixed. They definitely did good things for PAI.

There were four "movie rooms" and a couple of free areas to watch and chill out.

Now there are two - and yes according to the owner the others were farang owned.

Some businesses now seem starved of toursists - "the steakhouse" has closed as well

as one nice second hand bookstore.

I remember one guy with a thick Yorkshire accent(I could barely understand him)

who would sit around watching Rolling Stones videos..not a bad guy I thought

, just a little lonely. Yes some were boorish and ill-mannered..so what? It beats some

of the mafiosa types I've seen in Pattaya and Phucket.

What does the government want now with a new 3000 baht a night Hotel right in PAI's center?

Obviously, they want "value tourists"(the rich) to replace the backpackers. But I doubt this is "the riches" scene. What are they going to do, toke-up in the fields with the locals?

Anyway when and if the first Maconald's or Starbucks appears it will be time to find another PAI.

[PhilHarries]

Just don't expect to find a French restaurant, pizza, vegan food, meditation courses, cooking courses and trendy little coffee shops though. The night life, if you are lucky, will consist of laap dip mueang and lao khao. Do dress in your Sunday best, the locals will feel very respected.

Anyway when and if the first Maconald's or Starbucks appears it will be time to find another PAI.

Folks! You mean there's places on Earth WITHOUT Starbucks and Macdonalds? Best we keep quiet about it for if the news ever became public knowledge heads would roll in those company's boardrooms.

Back to topic. Hippies nor anyone else bother me, as long as they respect mine, and others, right to live our lives how we want I'll let them be. Have to be of this opinion as I was a hippy back in the '70's but never got with the saying "like" every other word and referring to everyone as "man". I guess starting out adult life as a craft apprentice kept my feet a little more firmly on the ground.

Backpackers can get a little tiresome. There was a guy and his gal chatting to a guy they just met in a downtown KL bar. I swear if this gal had said "Oh WOW!" once more to the guy's tales of derring do I'd have puked. Of course a lot of resemtment, particularly amongst folks of my era, is down to jealousy. When we were just out of college not only did we not have any money but flying anywhere beyond the Costa Del Sol was way beyond our wildest dreams. If we are honest with ourselves, given the opportunity, we'd have been on the first plane to Bangkok like a rat up a drainpipe and hanging around the Khaw San road saying "Oh WOW!" with the rest.

Peace man oops I mean folks.

[pumpuiman]

I was in Pai last year with a couple of Thai friends.After noticing their discomfort, I asked what was bothering them. They remarked to me about the disrespectful attitude of the hippies there. They pointed out the farang setting up makeshift street stalls selling beads and trinkets without permits, taking food from the local's mouths.

They remarked that they considered the manner of dress offensive to Thai people.

I got the same feeling about Pai. As if a part of Thailand had been raped by these people.

You would think that these liberal thinkers would have more respect for Thai culture and social norms....but it was not evident to me.

I believe lonely planet suggests proper dress and respect for local custom when traveling in Thailand.

I guess they missed that page.

Good riddance.

I have not been to Pai in almost 20 years. I don't remember it ever being a center for Thai people. It was a fairly small, actually tiny town that came into existence on the strength of the trekking opportunities. It was not a town that would have attracted many Thai people, and if I remember correctly, there were few enough Thai people around. And in fact, most Thai people would have felt singularly uncomfortable in a town populated and surrounded by minorities.

So for some city Thai, and their Farang friends, to complain about Pai, a town built upon the western world backpacker culture, is the height of hubris. Sort of like a Mexican complaining that Cabo was too American or a Nepali complaining about the western feel of Pokhara. Maybe I should go down to Miami so that I can complain that it is too Cuban.

Pai has not been raped, it has been caressed by these filthy hippie travellers who have put far more food into the mouths of the locals than has the Thai government over the same period of time.

And quite frankly, I will take the young, dreaded-locked, hippes with backpacks over the far more malignant neo-Sahib IT ex-pats any day.

Say what you will. The hippies, in my opinion, show disrespect to Thai people in their manner of dress and filthy habits.

The Thai friends I spoke of earlier were not only "city Thai" but also included an Isaan native, and a Chiang Rai local.

All felt the same way....as do I.

Because there is a majority of people offending local custom, doesn't justify it no matter how you slice it.

I find it hard to believe you would condone disrespectful behavior based on the argument that everyone else is doing it.

Sure, The local Pai natives enjoy the cash spent by tourists......but that doesn't buy a free ticket to offend.

[esprit]

Being an old fart I was in San Fransico and the West coast during "flower power" era and the start of the general usage for these folks as Hippies. Generally then they were kind, didn't give a ###### about authority but generally pleasant and mostly certainly not members of the great unwashed as they seem to have become in some quarters nowadays.

I digress as this a light hearted joke that I always remember being told by the locals in those days on many an occasion as even then they seemed to offend some of the residents apparently:-

Q) What is the differance between a hippy and a big brown sewer rat ?

A) We won't serve a hippy in the 7-11

[wilko]

Watch out there's some red-necks about!

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Now then people - I'm sure that there are folks from all walks of life that smell. My neighbour has a BO problem and I'm pretty sure he isn't a backpacker.

It would be great if everyone would just quit stereotyping. And leave backpackers alone!

[popshirt]

Ya, the last time I was in Bangkok, a down and out human wreck with a California accent asked me for money to buy some food over by Ploenchit BTS. The guy smelled so bad I almost threw up in his face. That was late '05. From the looks of him, I doubt he still breathes today. Where do these indigent farang go to die and does the Thai government care for and burn them up for free?

Please, how do you know what a California accent sounds like? Is it different from Colorado or Montana accent? Connecticut?

[sbk]

Please, how do you know what a California accent sounds like? Is it different from Colorado or Montana accent? Connecticut?

Yes, to an American, there is a difference.