Let’s get more electric cars on the road

[cornishcarlos]

2 minutes ago, jaiyen said:

Can you imagine what the electric cars will be like when they tell a Thai man to make it noisy !!

 

I guess we'll find out in about 30 yrs when the Thais invent the electric car...

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, jaiyen said:

So will I have to make my Roller and Bentley noisy so blind pedestrians can here them coming ??  Dont think so !  Can you imagine what the electric cars will be like when they tell a Thai man to make it noisy !!

Drilling holes in the exhaust is out so maybe a folded cigarette packet in the spokes?

Worked on my bike when I was kid.

Players was best packet to use.

Edited May 31, 2018 by overherebc

[peterb17]

As far as I see - the only point of an EV is to cut down emmisions - save the planet, smog in cities etc. 

With China building a new coal fired power station every other week and let’s not talk about India - seems a waste of time .

 

But yes to improve city air quality- OK

 

I asked a question on another thread - Bangkok is one of the hottest cities in the world - constant heat. 

How long would one of these cars run with aircon.

 

Must admit have just bought a hybrid- it’s very good- really quiet , quite quick - I am not too worried about fuel consumption- but oil prices are going up - 1100 baht full tank gives you 750 Kilometres - just around town .  

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, peterb17 said:

As far as I see - the only point of an EV is to cut down emmisions - save the planet, smog in cities etc. 

With China building a new coal fired power station every other week and let’s not talk about India - seems a waste of time .

 

But yes to improve city air quality- OK

 

I asked a question on another thread - Bangkok is one of the hottest cities in the world - constant heat. 

How long would one of these cars run with aircon.

 

Must admit have just bought a hybrid- it’s very good- really quiet , quite quick - I am not too worried about fuel consumption- but oil prices are going up - 1100 baht full tank gives you 750 Kilometres - just around town .  

That seems like a good saving on fuel cost.

[Cadbury]

6 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

My friend nearly got run over by one in Perth, WA last week.. Didn't hear it coming ?

Maybe should have looked but it's natural to use hearing as a big part of our early warning system, so introducing near silent transport, is a recipe for disaster !!

Good way to control over population though..

The silence of the vehicles is one aspect of safety and population control. An even greater factor will be when brain dead drivers of electric vehicles refuse to turn on lighting after dark so that headlights and taillights do not drain the battery. Especially should the battery be getting low.

You can imagine the Thai logic coming into play.

Who needs car lights turned on when driving around Bangkok at night? That's what street lighting is for to show; to you where you are going. 

If another drivers with their headlights lights turned on can't see me that's their problem. 

The new popular excuse will be........"the lights failed"

Anyone who has visited Vietnam and seen them drive around the streets after dark on those mini electric bikes will know what I am talking about.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Cadbury

[impulse]

31 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Drilling holes in the exhaust is out so maybe a folded cigarette packet in the spokes?

Worked on my bike when I was kid.

Players was best packet to use.

 

Just make sure you get a deck with the tax stamp...

 

We used baseball cards.  The men's neighborhood poker games would have had fistfights had they discovered cards missing, not realizing the kids filched a few cards from the decks.  Sure wish I still had those Mickey Mantle rookie cards I'm sure a lot of us used, oblivious to the long term collect-ability.

 

On an aside (and closer to topic) electric cars are not much quieter than a Lexus or Benz.  I have 3 e-bikes and scooters in Thailand, and my e-scooter is my main mode of getting around town here in China.  Love them all, but they're still 2 wheelers and subject to the hazards of dealing with traffic without benefit of seatbelts and a lot of steel.

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by impulse

[impulse]

22 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

An even greater factor will be when brain dead drivers of electric vehicles refuse to turn on lighting after dark so that headlights and taillights do not drain the battery. Especially should the battery be getting low.

You can imagine the Thai logic coming into play.

 

Easy problem to solve in the design phase,  my latest e-scooter's running lights are on whenever it's turned on.  I couldn't turn off the running lights if I wanted to.  My only option is to make them a lot brighter for night time running, 3 levels in fact.  Running lights, low beams and high beams.  No lights?  Not even an option.  Costs just a few dozen baht to implement.

Edited May 31, 2018 by impulse

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, mok199 said:

how about ''lets have fewer cars and buses on our roads''

How about being realistic?

[Cadbury]

Just now, impulse said:

Easy problem to solve in the design phase,  my latest e-scooter's running lights are on whenever it's turned on

I am sure that design phase works OK for e-scooters in Thailand. It sure as hell doesn't in Vietnam. In any case I find it difficult to accept that electric cars will be running around the streets and roads in broad daylight with their headlights turned on just because they are wired to come on when the car starts. Total waste of battery power I suggest.

[impulse]

Just now, Cadbury said:

I am sure that design phase works OK for e-scooters in Thailand. It sure as hell doesn't in Vietnam. In any case I find it difficult to accept that electric cars will be running around the streets and roads in broad daylight with their headlights turned on just because they are wired to come on when the car starts. Total waste of battery power I suggest.

 

LED running lights take just a few watts.  But if even that's too much, the inverter based power control systems are so sophisticated that adding a light sensor to turn the lights on when they're required is extremely easy and cheap to implement.  It's just a matter of will.

 

My latest e-scooter also has GPS so I can track it from my cell phone or home computer, has a USB charging port, and reports to the manufacturer when it has mechanical issues.  I've gotten texts from the manufacturer when I was out of country (China) for months and it hadn't phoned home.  I'm not sure I like all of that scrutiny, but it just shows how much things have advanced. 

 

All in an e-scooter that costs around $600 USD and goes 35-40km/hr for around 50km between charges, then the removable battery weighs around 10 pounds to carry it inside for a top-up.  (And I bought an upgraded model- e-scooters start around $300 USD at retail in China)

[ramrod711]

http://www.scandinavianhydrogen.org/nhc/

 

Hydrogen is the future, nothing but H2O out the tailpipe.

[MaxYakov]

Great idea! Let's drive electricity prices even higher and build more power plants. /sarc

 

Instead, how about we get more people on non-electric bicycles instead? Yeah, I know - not big money for the car, motorbike and power generation industries, not to mention the loss of status (face?) by not having the first electric car on one's block.

[DrTuner]

But how can you take the tail pipe out of those to hoon around infuriated neighbours? Not true Thainess, pass. Or wait... maybe a 500 gigawatt sound system would do it.

[MaxYakov]

57 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

http://www.scandinavianhydrogen.org/nhc/

 

Hydrogen is the future, nothing but H2O out the tailpipe.

Extremely expensive technology (but so are lithium batteries) and the EU is pushing this (apparently):

 

26 Significant Pros and Cons of Hydrogen Fuel Cells - The Green Garage

 

You think hydrogen fuel has a chance, eh? Industry doesn't seem to be betting on it at the moment.

 

 

[fantom]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

http://www.scandinavianhydrogen.org/nhc/

 

Hydrogen is the future, nothing but H2O out the tailpipe.

Energy has to come from somewhere, the first law of thermodynamics does now allow for flights of fancy. As Prof Plimer is fond of reminding us, sea breezes and sunbeams will never be enough.

 

Or putting it another way, where will all this hydrogen come from? (yes I did read the article), if you have a few decent sized nuclear reactors perhaps, or up to date coal fired stations then perhaps you could make a lot of hydrogen, but then what?  Energy density is what counts in transportation.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

Great idea, and build some coal powered generating plants to supply the electricity.

[lamyai3]

Ed Begley Jr is available for consultation. 

[ramrod711]

4 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Great idea, and build some coal powered generating plants to supply the electricity.

Some countries have hydro electric power, perhaps you've heard of it?

?

[MaxYakov]

5 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Great idea, and build some coal powered generating plants to supply the electricity.

 

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

Some countries have hydro electric power, perhaps you've heard of it?

?

Electricity Generation USA 2014 - 38% Coal, < 13% Hydro - Wiki

 

 

 

Electricity Generation China 2016 - 56% Coal, < 20% Hydro - Wiki

 

 

[rickudon]

Nice idea from the OP, but no practical suggestions as too how it will be achieved. One, electric cars are still horrendously expensive - i was looking at the UK market and still cost 50% more even with government subsidies. Two - no-one will buy one unless they can access infrastructure to recharge it - that requires masses of recharging points in cities (because few residents have the option to do it at home), infrastructure needs to come first.

 

Go for the low hanging fruit - e-bikes and trikes, e-scooters. Because they rarely travel long distances, do not need air conditioning and batteries are not so expensive. As said by one poster, they are cheap and batteries are portable so can take indoors to charge (and do not require special power supplies to do so). One option to push is to provide 2 battery packs so one could be charged during the day by solar power or at convenient off-peak times, and swapped when required. This could be adopted in Thailand without dramatic subsidies/infrastructure changes very quickly. 

 

Then there is time to deal with the bigger vehicles.

[ramrod711]

10 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

 

Electricity Generation USA 2014 - 38% Coal, < 13% Hydro - Wiki

 

 

 

Electricity Generation China 2016 - 56% Coal, < 20% Hydro - Wiki

 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2015/10/which-countries-produce-the-most-hydroelectric-power/

And the top three are?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

Plus the mining, refining and recycling of the rare elements in the batteries?

It is just the same story, move the pollution somewhere else...

 

Edited June 1, 2018 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[MaxYakov]

17 hours ago, rickudon said:

Nice idea from the OP, but no practical suggestions as too how it will be achieved. One, electric cars are still horrendously expensive - i was looking at the UK market and still cost 50% more even with government subsidies. Two - no-one will buy one unless they can access infrastructure to recharge it - that requires masses of recharging points in cities (because few residents have the option to do it at home), infrastructure needs to come first.

 

Go for the low hanging fruit - e-bikes and trikes, e-scooters. Because they rarely travel long distances, do not need air conditioning and batteries are not so expensive. As said by one poster, they are cheap and batteries are portable so can take indoors to charge (and do not require special power supplies to do so). One option to push is to provide 2 battery packs so one could be charged during the day by solar power or at convenient off-peak times, and swapped when required. This could be adopted in Thailand without dramatic subsidies/infrastructure changes very quickly. 

 

Then there is time to deal with the bigger vehicles.

What's the point of an e-bike/scooter for short distances (unless the rider has a physical problem)? An ordinary bicycle works just fine for short distances and uses far fewer resources to produce and operate. Even without a cyclist-protective infrastructure, bicycles can be used relatively safely in, at least, cities.

 

Would you agree with having these e-bikes on the road competing with motorbikes/cycles?

 

Because I can predict that if a resident of Thailand, particularly Thai ethnic culture with wherewithal, had to choose between an e-bike and a gas-powered motorbike/cycle, most of them would choose the latter and for obvious practical reasons, not to mention not wanting to be seen on anything with pedals or on anything where they could potentially have to pedal. And it's not only an issue of physical exercise it's a "status/face" thing as well, IMHO (of 10 years of cycling and observing and discussing in urban Bangkok).

 

Electric motorbikes are "a bike too far" in terms of expense and quiet operation (many motorbike operators seem to lavish in the ear-splitting noise of an unmuffled, high-rev gas engine) and it will be beyond our lifetimes before they take hold - if ever.

Edited June 2, 2018 by MaxYakov

[rickudon]

Max, i know it would be an uphill struggle, especially in Thailand. But e-bikes and scooters big in China. Even out here in Udon Thani, i see a few e-bikes, and 3 e-trikes locally. Big-C nearly always has some on display. The point being, as i said, you can get them into use without significant infrastructure changes. It would be sensible to promote these first rather than telling cars to buy electric cars, which few can afford, cannot easily recharge and the PEA will need to upgrade most of the electrical grid to accommodate them first.

[moontang]

is there a difference in a coal burning car and an electric car?

[impulse]

On 6/2/2018 at 8:28 AM, MaxYakov said:

Because I can predict that if a resident of Thailand, particularly Thai ethnic culture with wherewithal, had to choose between an e-bike and a gas-powered motorbike/cycle, most of them would choose the latter and for obvious practical reasons, not to mention not wanting to be seen on anything with pedals or on anything where they could potentially have to pedal. And it's not only an issue of physical exercise it's a "status/face" thing as well, IMHO (of 10 years of cycling and observing and discussing in urban Bangkok).

 

Electric motorbikes are "a bike too far" in terms of expense and quiet operation (many motorbike operators seem to lavish in the ear-splitting noise of an unmuffled, high-rev gas engine) and it will be beyond our lifetimes before they take hold - if ever.

 

They could be like China and ban gasoline scooters from many city centers.  It is such a treat to cross at a light and walk on a sidewalk without having to dodge scooters at 100km/hr, not to mention the noise. 

 

I actually thought banning gasoline scooters from in town was a bad idea.  Until I moved to Bangkok.

 

Oh, and on your bicycle comparison, I'd almost be willing to start riding a pedal bicycle in BKK when they install showers everywhere I may want to go.  Until then, I like the twist throttle.  It's not much faster, but a lot less sweaty.

 

And one other thing.  The human body is not very efficient at turning food into energy, and on a per calorie basis, electricity is a lot cheaper than food.  On fat boys like me, that's not an issue.  But it may be a problem for a skinny guy who can barely afford rice.

 

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by impulse

[overherebc]

On 6/2/2018 at 3:48 AM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Plus the mining, refining and recycling of the rare elements in the batteries?

It is just the same story, move the pollution somewhere else...

 

Best place is outside the environment.

Google youtube  'the front fell off'

???

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 6/7/2018 at 7:58 PM, overherebc said:

Best place is outside the environment.

Without Google I guess you are suggesting low earth orbit or something just as ridiculous like mining on the moon.

If some of the predictions are anywhere close to reality, the reserves of some of the rare metals used will run out at the current rate of battery production in about 10 years.

Don't misunderstand, I have nothing against electric vehicles, but denying they pollute is ignoring the herd of elephants in the room.

 

.

[kannot]

The national grid simply couldnt cope if  everyone used them........I mean just  look at the amount of time the village electric is off and on here in my  village for starters, 

Edited June 8, 2018 by kannot

[overherebc]

5 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

Without Google I guess you are suggesting low earth orbit or something just as ridiculous like mining on the moon.

If some of the predictions are anywhere close to reality, the reserves of some of the rare metals used will run out at the current rate of battery production in about 10 years.

Don't misunderstand, I have nothing against electric vehicles, but denying they pollute is ignoring the herd of elephants in the room.

 

.

google 'the front fell off' then you get the meaning of 'outside the environment.'