9 hours ago, SheungWan said:

What a lame description. Anyway, another one from the past.......How about Batman?

Again you have just proven my point, Batman is not a nice person.

 

Here's what Reginald D Hunter has to say about Batman.

 

“I don’t respect the concept of Batman because of what i understand about politics and that.
I’m going to lay it out for you, Rich dude owns a corporation, has state of the art equipment and he uses this to beat up on street level crime. He doesn’t mess with the industrialists or the super capitalists, the Murdock or the Trumps he’d rather just <deleted> with the purse snatchers on the corner! Batman is a conservatives wet dream! <deleted> batman!”

Edited June 2, 20188 yr by vogie

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Full face veils are nothing to do with Islam. They don't wear them in Indonesia or Malaysia.

The biggest con perpetrated about the dress issue is that there is such a thing as "Islamic" dress when it's actually "cultural" dress.

Ibn Hssain, IMO, is either ignorant about the issue, has been badly advised, or is deliberately promulgating a falsehood.

Whatever, when she decided to live in a western society it is up to her to conform to that society's norms, or go somewhere she can live according to her desires. Seems she and her ilk think western societies should conform to their desires. 

I'm sure she would find Afghanistan very accommodating to her beliefs.

You are correct in saying that the Full Face Veil has nothing to do with Religion. 

 

The Veil originates many years ago when one tribe would raid another tribes camp, and in the process kidnap the youngest and most beautiful women. To protect against this the women were required to dress from head to toe so they could not be easily identified, and thus easily kidnapped.

 

I think we have come a long way since that time. I think that part of the rules for Immigration should be that if you plan to move there you must agree to trying to fit into that society and way of life. If not, then you should be stopped at the Border and sent back home.   

10 hours ago, SheungWan said:

What a lame description. Anyway, another one from the past.......How about Batman?

Valid point, but these ARE fictional characters. I grew up with the Lone Ranger and Batman, loved 'em both, but they are not reality. We live in a world where you must show your face. If Islam can't conform, it does not need to walk among us.

20 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

I agree. I hate creeping Islamism and Sharia law in my home country (USA) . The problem is not face covering. Go to Japan or Korea half the population wear surgical masks most of the time.

 

I believe in freedom and think one should be allowed to cover ones face unless it is a airport, bank , courthouse, music concert, etc.

I beleive in freedom to and the less laws in a free society the better it is. But somewhere along the way you have to draw a line in the sand. If you allow Viels as freedom of expression and customary dress, how can you now stop a Sikh from walking around with a Dagger around his belt, as this is part of his cutomary dress code as well?  

 

There are laws that protect privacy and freedom of expression. For example what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of there own bedroom is nobodies business. But carry out these same acts in public and in front of school children on there way to school and this now becomes everyones business. 

 

There is no law stopping these people from practicing there beliefs in the privacy of there own homes. If you step out of this boundry and into society, you now should follow the rules and laws and customs of that society. If you can't, then just done go there. 

 

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 2 years and where all women were covered from head to toe. I did not try to change there customs or religion but instead tried to fit in as best as I could. When in my country, especially to live, I think they should do the same. 

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Again you have just proven my point, Batman is not a nice person.

 

Here's what Reginald D Hunter has to say about Batman.

 

“I don’t respect the concept of Batman because of what i understand about politics and that.
I’m going to lay it out for you, Rich dude owns a corporation, has state of the art equipment and he uses this to beat up on street level crime. He doesn’t mess with the industrialists or the super capitalists, the Murdock or the Trumps he’d rather just <deleted> with the purse snatchers on the corner! Batman is a conservatives wet dream! <deleted> batman!”

I enjoy batman movies as much as anyone else - but R. D. Hunter has a point!

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:12 PM, dick dasterdly said:

 

 

My dislike of the head to toe covering is that it's unacceptable for western countries to accept the beliefs of other communties when they migrate to western countries. It's up to the immigrants to accept the beliefs/values of the country they've moved to.

 

A secondary consideration is that it's a security risk.

In an ideal world people should be able to wear whatever they like, but foreign women in some Muslim countries are forced to adhere to the local dress code ( in Saudi it's abayas ), so why should they be able to wear veils in Denmark if the locals don't want them to?

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:51 PM, genericptr said:

How could you possibly support that position? It has everything to do with Islam and is a direct extension of the religions teachings. It's merely more extreme than that found in Indonesia or Malaysia.

LOL. It's cultural, nothing more. It would only be "Islamic" if it were mandated in the Koran, which it's not. 

If you can come up with a quote from the Koran that mandates the wearing of full face veils, I'll retract my statement.

 

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 1:56 PM, genericptr said:

Do some searches on YouTube. You can find preachers (forget the proper name in Islam, emam?) which are UK born natives speaking English that will explain exactly why they believe women should be covered. There's a debate whether a full face cover is required by Allah but it's all documented in the Koran and supported by good theological arguments (if you're a Muslim that is).

 

I wouldn't go by anything a Wahabi preacher in the UK says. I go by the practice in Saudi. If they don't make women wear a veil, it's definitely not required. We had female Drs that didn't wear veils.

19 hours ago, SABloke said:

Actually, her sob story of not being able to go to school is nonsense. Her religion does not technically ban her from going to these activities without a niqab; Her husband and the religious sect he's part of, does.

You can amend that to "Her religion does not ban her from going to these activities without a niqab".

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wouldn't go by anything a Wahabi preacher in the UK says. I go by the practice in Saudi. If they don't make women wear a veil, it's definitely not required. We had female Drs that didn't wear veils.

There is indeed a debate to be had but 100% of the people who wear the Burka are Muslims right? What do the people who wear the Burka say themselves? Do they say it has nothing to do with their religion?

2 minutes ago, genericptr said:

There is indeed a debate to be had but 100% of the people who wear the Burka are Muslims right? What do the people who wear the Burka say themselves? Do they say it has nothing to do with their religion?

You have it wrong. Women in countries which happen to be Islamic wear veils, but they would do that even if Muhamed had never lived and they worshipped the sun god. 

If it were mandated, women in Indonesia and Malaysia would wear them and they don't. It was never a cultural dress Requirement in those countries. 

 

Anyway, it's irrelevant, as it's up to the laws of the country they live in whether they can wear veils or not. Secular law takes precedence over religious practice.

It's customary in some Islamic countries for girls to be genitally mutilated, but I presume you are not advocating that that should be allowed in western countries. 

11 minutes ago, genericptr said:

What do the people who wear the Burka say themselves?

Muslim women I know have no desire to wear a veil, and in some cases do not wear a head scarf either, as it's not compulsory.

Islamic dogs in Denmark may be asked to remove their barkas too.

 

Muslim women I know have no desire to wear a veil, and in some cases do not wear a head scarf either, as it's not compulsory.

Is it not up to the ‘man of the house’ who is treated as a more supreme being and the women, as mere property or have I got that wrong????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Danish muslim women saviour a final opportunity to take a selfie before the ban begins.

 

Good on the Danish.

3 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Good on the Danish.

 

 

+1

14 hours ago, DILLIGAD said:

Is it not up to the ‘man of the house’ who is treated as a more supreme being and the women, as mere property or have I got that wrong????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have it wrong. In Saudi, women voluntarily wear the things, and even wear 2 layers so no man can look on their face. They also wear gloves so no man can see their skin.

It might be a shock to you, but not all Muslim men are fanatics about controlling their women, and some of them have perfectly "normal" marriages, and even love their female family members.

 

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You have it wrong. In Saudi, women voluntarily wear the things, and even wear 2 layers so no man can look on their face. They also wear gloves so no man can see their skin.

It might be a shock to you, but not all Muslim men are fanatics about controlling their women, and some of them have perfectly "normal" marriages, and even love their female family members.

 

Unlike many of the unruly women we have in the West, Muslim women know to keep themselves in check. As much as I dislike Islam there are SOME respectable practices and values in that religion.

Edited June 3, 20188 yr by Rigby40

2 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Unlike many of the unruly women we have in the West, Muslim women know to keep themselves in check. As much as I dislike Islam there are SOME respectable practices and values in that religion.

I'm (almost) at a loss for words!

 

Presumably you have a problem with "unruly women we have in the West", and prefer they behave quietly and subserviently - as is usual for  most Moslem women?

 

Do you also feel that Western and Moslem men should behave as demurely/wear veils etc.?  After all, the good-looking males may arouse erotic passions amongst the female gender!

 

Anyway, this is off-topic and, personally, I applaud Denmark.

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm (almost) at a loss for words!

 

Presumably you have a problem with "unruly women we have in the West", and prefer they behave quietly and subserviently - as is usual for  most Moslem women?

 

Do you also feel that Western and Moslem men should behave as demurely/wear veils etc.?  After all, the good-looking males may arouse erotic passions amongst the female gender!

 

Anyway, this is off-topic and, personally, I applaud Denmark.

The reason why Islam is never going to be stopped and will continue to grow is because of the respect for gender roles(specifically the role of women). Muslim women LOVE and embrace their femininity and roles as women in the family and community. Most women prefer such gender roles and all I'm suggesting is that we get back to that in the West.

 

Men and women aren't the same, we play different roles in the world so why would men wear veils?

4 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

The reason why Islam is never going to be stopped and will continue to grow is because of the respect for gender roles(specifically the role of women). Muslim women LOVE and embrace their femininity and roles as women in the family and community. Most women prefer such gender roles and all I'm suggesting is that we get back to that in the West.

 

Men and women aren't the same, we play different roles in the world so why would men wear veils?

In other words, you prefer the stereotypes and have no time for women that don't conform to your ideal.

 

It will come as a horrible suprise to you to learn that many women are very intelligent, and can see the hypocrisy in your 'argument' ?.  I've no doubt that most men can also see the hypocrisy.

 

But I suspect you are instigating an argument ( I wouldn't dare suggest you are trolling.... as this is far from encouraged on TV).

 

You may (possibly - ha ha) be horrified by the Danish parliament decision to ban the wearing of face veils in public - so argue this point, as it's the topic.

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

In other words, you prefer the stereotypes and have no time for women that don't conform to your ideal.

 

It will come as a horrible suprise to you to learn that many women are very intelligent, and can see the hypocrisy in your 'argument' ?.  I've no doubt that most men can also see the hypocrisy.

 

But I suspect you are instigating an argument ( I wouldn't dare suggest you are trolling.... as this is far from encouraged on TV).

 

You may (possibly - ha ha) be horrified by the Danish parliament decision to ban the wearing of face veils in public - so argue this point, as it's the topic.

 

Funnily enough most women around the world prefer those stereotypes too ? Muslim women, from the second largest religion in the world(fastest growing too) would beg to differ with the white knights here.

 

Who said anything about intelligence? Are you sure you have the right argument?

 

There's nothing hypocritical about my position. But if you think there is I'd be happy to clear that up for you.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Rigby40 said:

 

Funnily enough most women around the world prefer those stereotypes too ? Muslim women, from the second largest religion in the world(fastest growing too) would beg to differ with the white knights here.

 

Who said anything about intelligence? Are you sure you have the right argument?

 

There's nothing hypocritical about my position. But if you think there is I'd be happy to clear that up for you.

 

 

 

In my personal opinion, your whole view and idea about Muslim Women is hypocritical. You have no idea! What respectibility is there is keeping these women no less than a prisoner? Of depriving a person of basic human rights? Of keeping them under lock and key? 

 

You argument and biggest point seems to be that Muslim Women love and embrace this kind of treatment. Where on Earth would you get a crazy idea like that? Would you like to be held captive? Many Muslim Women conform to the Dress Code and Culturial Rules simply because they don't have any other choice. 

 

I recall a serious conversation I had once wth a Young Saudi Trainee. I asked him what he would do if his sister refused to wear the veil and walked around open faced. Without a second of hesitation he told me he would kill her. I thought he was joking but I soon saw he wasn''t. He told me that I don't understand. That him being the oldest male member in the family it was his duty to uphold the family honor and kill her. I don't know today if he really would have or not. But if I was his sister and he told me this, I would beleive him. 

 

In Saudi Arabia, girls are segregated from boys from there time of birth. Other than male members in her family like her father or brother. She is not allowed to go anywhere in public alone and without a male member of her family being with her at all times. She must conform to the dress code foe women there and also wear a veil. By age 9 she is not allowed to swim with her father in a public swimming pool, and now must swim with women when it is there turn to have the pool alone. She can not travel anywhere without her father's permission, or husbands if she is married. All these rules are strictly upheld. She can, and most likely would, be killed by her father or brother is she chooses to disobey them.

 

The big news out of Saudi Arabia right now is whether women should be allowed to drive cars or not. It should become law by this summer. I applaud Saudi Arabia for doing this. But imagine that. Allowing women to be able to drive a car legally in this day and age. But then they will still need there fathers or husbands permission to be able to get a license. 

 

So my rebuttle to your argument is that Muslime Women, or any other woman for that matter, does not like to be held captive and held a prisoner by there fathers, brothers, or husbands.     .    

17 hours ago, vogie said:

Danish muslim women saviour a final opportunity to take a selfie before the ban begins.

 

the picture should win a prize. Priceless.

yes deep down an islam free europe brings happiness and security back for jewish people can walk the streets with our kippa again.

 

wbr

roobaa01

7 minutes ago, wabothai said:

the picture should win a prize. Priceless.

On the other hand the photo could be and probably is shopped.

Just now, GOLDBUGGY said:

In my personal opinion, your whole view and idea about Muslim Women is hypocritical. You have no idea! What respectibility is there is keeping these women no less than a prisoner? Of depriving a person of basic human rights? Of keeping them under lock and key? 

 

You argument and biggest point seems to be that Muslim Women love and embrace this kind of treatment. Where on Earth would you get a crazy idea like that? Would you like to be held captive? Many Muslim Women conform to the Dress Code and Culturial Rules simply because they don't have any other choice. 

 

I recall a serious conversation I had once wth a Young Saudi Trainee. I asked him what he would do if his sister refused to wear the veil and walked around open faced. Without a second of hesitation he told me he would kill her. I thought he was joking but I soon saw he wasn''t. He told me that I don't understand. That him being the oldest male member in the family it was his duty to uphold the family honor and kill her. I don't know today if he really would have or not. But if I was his sister and he told me this, I would beleive him. 

 

In Saudi Arabia, girls are segregated from boys from there time of birth. Other than male members in her family like her father or brother. She is not allowed to go anywhere in public alone and without a male member of her family being with her at all times. She must conform to the dress code foe women there and also wear a veil. By age 9 she is not allowed to swim with her father in a public swimming pool, and now must swim with women when it is there turn to have the pool alone. She can not travel anywhere without her father's permission, or husbands if she is married. All these rules are strictly upheld. She can, and most likely would, be killed by her father or brother is she chooses to disobey them.

 

The big news out of Saudi Arabia right now is whether women should be allowed to drive cars or not. It should become law by this summer. I applaud Saudi Arabia for doing this. But imagine that. Allowing women to be able to drive a car legally in this day and age. But then they will still need there fathers or husbands permission to be able to get a license. 

 

So my rebuttle to your argument is that Muslime Women, or any other woman for that matter, does not like to be held captive and held a prisoner by there fathers, brothers, or husbands.     .    

Don't take my respect for SOME of their values and practices as pro-Islam. As I've mentioned before I dislike Islam and if I truly valued the religion as a whole I'd be a muslim! But I don't because many of their practices go against the non-agresion principle.

 

And yes, PHYSICALLY FORCING women to adhere to such rules is not acceptable. But that's not always the case. Boy now I'm sounding like a liberal c*ck for Islam ha! Really I'm not defending the religion. The core of my argument is that women naturally prefer a submissive role to a dominant male. We've been lied to about this in the West but you soon learn otherwise when you take step outside your bubble. Some men will figure this out and some well, will continue to be disrespected and used by women oh well, I digress.

Thinking that the women of Islam have no other choice and just continue to follow the practices because of their big bad mean husbands is a huge misunderstanding of both human nature and the religion itself. And it's a dangerous misunderstanding if you're one of those people who want reformation of the religion.

There's no need to keep bringing up husbands or brothers killing their own family members over a veil. I never argued in favor of that and it obviously goes against the non-aggression principle.

5 minutes ago, wabothai said:

On the other hand the photo could be and probably is shopped.

It is quite obviously photoshopped. Perspective, lighting and different grain structure is a dead giveaway.

something from germany where german women can attend educational course to learn wearing burqa, nijab, hijab, to me sickening.

 

wbr

roobaa01