Thai Families

[OxfordWill]

Hi All,

I often read posts from folks who seem to have a problem communicating with their thai friend/ girlfriend / boyfriend / business co worker / peer etc. I often think to myself when reading these "If they need to ask strangers on a forum, they might as well give up now."

It is, therefore, with a humbling sense of irony that I post the following question in the hopes that someone out there has something I hadn't thought of.

I am set to go out to Thailand in June and will be meeting my long-term girlfriend's Mother and two brothers for the first time. To them, I am a 'friend' although I expect the mother knows full well what my relationship to her daughter is. I am unsure what her mother thinks of me, as for one she has not yet met or spoken to me and has nothing but good reports from her daughter to go by.

The brothers, however, are very anti-me. Their main bone of contention seems to be that because I am farang, in getting involved with their sister I am unnecessarily worrying their mother. The logic is (and it's logic I can relate to) that 'someone they do not know' getting close to their relative is going to cause worry for mum because she cannot protect her daughter from preying evil farang while she is out of Thailand. The brothers also seem a little on the racist side, which is a shame but something I hope they might change.

Secondly, when she proposed having me stay with them in the house, they say that the very idea of a farang being seen travelling to and fro in their Neighbourhood would cause immense negative gossip - how could she not have forseen this, they ask. The immediately younger brother gave my girlfriend a strict telling off when she told them about her plan to bring a farang to Thailand with her. She is the older sister, though, which helps. The family seem well-off if not on the rich side.

I am generally good with people and have not yet met a Thai person who I have got on badly with. I am ready to be as charming and polite and THAI as possible with her brothers in the hope that I can come across as acceptable and not a threat to them or their sister's wellbeing.

Meanwhile I'd love to hear if any of you have any advice, experience or generally anything of worth to share that could help me out. I'd really appreciate it. I have discussed it at length with my girlfriend, but there is only so much she can say before she runs out of ideas herself.

I don't speak fluent Thai but I make the effort where I can. The family lives just south of Bangkok, and has a house on the outskirts of Bangkok too.

Thanks in advance,

Will.

EDIT: p.s the brothers are 20 and 18 ish, one studying Law. I am nearing 21, girlfriend is nearing 22. Mother is ..older.

[OxfordWill]

summary:

Meeting a middle/upper class Thai family for the first time. Mother, two brothers, no father.

~ please help!

[GuestHouse]

A question.

Is your Girlfriend Chinese Thai? of fully Thai?

[Snark]

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[OxfordWill]

She is..well, the mother brought them up speaking Thai and a Chinese dialect that is called something like 'Dow-joo' (?). I am not sure how long ago the family was Chinese rather than Thai, but if you ask her, she will say 'Thai'.

I didn't find out about the Chinese element to her background for a long time after knowing her, so I would assume she is in that large bracket of Thais who at some point previously, were Chinese.

confusing

[Snark]

deleted

[OxfordWill]

With the Chinese element thrown in, my words may be meaningless. Hope for Thai traditional. My mother tried to explain the Chinese social structure, of which there are dozens. I never got to square 1 in understanding.

Thanks for the reply -

Having thought about it some more, I am confident that as far as the traditions go, they are fully Thai. The Father was 100% Thai, and the mother was the chinese line (at some point in her past) but at any rate she will have the expectations of a Thai and not a Thai-Chinese.

I hope.

[GuestHouse]

The Chinese mother is going to be your problem.

A very large part of Chinese Thai society still choose their children's spouse ( or manipulate their children to choose the spouse that the parents want).

Only last month I was talking with a Chinese Thai woman who had been 'bought off' her foreign husband by her family.

The other issue is that where Thai society has a built in respect and duty to care for the mother of the family, this is in many Thai Chinese families is taken to extreme.

I have a very close friend (Anglo Thai/Chinese female) who is married to a Thai.

She battles with her mother over every aspect of her own son's upbringing and her choice of husband. I myself have heard the mother bitterly criticise the daughter for not letting the mother choose her husband (in front of the husband).

My friend has been driven to near dispair and I have often had to council her on how to deal with her mother.

Pointing out that her mother married a foreigner does no good what so ever.

Thai Chinese families are extremely closely knit and controlled by the mother. Without meeting the sons I would guess that they are almost cirtainly racist by any western standards.

(Is that a racist assumption?)

Maybe it is, but let them prove me wrong.

[taxexile]

i know a thai/chinese girl from bangkok who was shot in the leg by her father for dating a boy deemed to be unsuitable.... and it wasnt so long ago either.

however, before you get too depressed, i married a thai/ chinese girl from the middle classes and have been accepted 100% by all the family including her brothers.

just be yourself, be respectful to the parents and keep your hands to yourself when with her in the company of the family. you cant do any more than that.

and to snark..... you talk of jao nai in almost every post , some members (including myself) may be a little uncertain as to exactly what you mean.

could you explain.

[Drewcifer]

Oxford,

I feel your pain and I know what you are going through. Unfortunately, the older upper classes in Thailand still see a relationship with a farang as a major step down. (In my opinion, a lot of it has to do with how expats act in Thailand. Lets face it, most Expats in Thailand arent know for for their good behavior and mannors).

Oxford, you told us about her, but can you tell us more about you? Are you tall? Do you come from a good family? Are you highly educated? Are you wealthy? Do you have anything in common at all with anyone in the family? Any of these traits my give you a leg up with the family.

Short of knowing all the facts, snark is pretty dead on with his advice. If you can get mom to like you, that would be a huge win. Without more information, its hard to give specific advice, but when you meet the family, how you act will be VERY important.

[plachon]

i know a thai/chinese girl from bangkok who was shot in the leg by her father for dating a boy deemed to be unsuitable.... and it wasnt so long ago either.

however, before you get too depressed, i married a thai/ chinese girl from the middle classes and have been accepted 100% by all the family including her brothers.

I know a 100 % Isaan girl who shot her sino-Thai hubby in the leg (perhaps she was aiming for his balls and missed?) after he screwed around on etoo many times. This was the culmination of a very unhappy marriage where she was not treated with any respect by the in-laws, who expected her to be the subservient wifey staying in and doing the housework, etc. Unsurprisingly, she's now left him for a farang husband.............. who also screws around and is in risk of getting the same treatment unless he reforms. However, he's now a private security geek in Iraq, so there's a good chance the Iraqis may get him first.......

[Boon Mee]

Will,

If I may throw in my own two cents worth of advice here by giving you an example from my marriage to a Thai/Burmese of middle-class background. Until the day he died, my wife's grandfather was not told that my wife was married to a Farang. It was said it would have killed him to know. Well, the old bugger passed on anyway.

As been mentioned previously, you have a double set of obstacles. The Chinese factor and the mother. The brothers can be "bought" off if you finese it right.

The best solution to your problem is to take her out of Thailand ASAP once you are married (presuming that you intend to do so). The King's favorite daughter fell in love with a Farang and once they were hitched, had to stay out of LOS! They are since divorced and she's back in good graces now. That's an extreme example.

My in-laws now accept me but it was very uncomfortable for the first few years. My wife & I have been married for 24 years and with time & respect on my side, it's worked out fine.

[pnustedt]

Without more information, its hard to give specific advice, but when you meet the family, how you act will be VERY important.

Absolutely true. Suggest you try to get hold of a copy of "Thai Culture Shock".

I guess that the main concern will be that you are not married, and perhaps your intentions unclear. My wife would not sleep with me in her village until we were married (and I met her in a bar)! If your intentions are dubious, i.e. you may not marry, this could bring shame on the family.

I am now fully accepted into the family - I frequently go out with the brothers and they seem quite happy to have a farang tagging along.

[stroll]

Boy, am I lucky my GF is a farmer's daughter from the North!

There was some talk about her being a hooker and having aids after my first visit to the village, but since the 'punter' has hung around for several years now, we are fully accepted.

And I confirm, being friends with the mother is the most important single task. In my case, giving thoughtful gifts on special occasions (not showering her with consumer goods!) went a long way...

[Drewcifer]

I hate to harp on class here, but a family from a small village and a wealthy family from Bangkok are VERY different.

[Boon Mee]

I hate to harp on class here, but a family from a small village and a wealthy family from Bangkok are VERY different.

Most definitely. Like night/day...

[Snark]

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[taxexile]

if the family think of you as a friend of your daughter then during your visit behave as if you were a friend of hers, dont be the attentive boyfriend.

visit as a non- threatening friend and behave well,gifts for the father and mother, make a good impression, join in with everything, eat all the strange things that the thai chinese eat, and you will be accepted as a "good person ", let them get to know you as a friend first, and possible son in law much further down the line.

never mind that the mother may have suspicions that the relationship is deeper than that. i doubt if she will bring it with you.

[Snark]

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[OxfordWill]

Thanks to everyone for your advice - it's given me plenty to think on.

Oxford, you told us about her, but can you tell us more about you? Are you tall? Do you come from a good family? Are you highly educated? Are you wealthy? Do you have anything in common at all with anyone in the family? Any of these traits my give you a leg up with the family.

In answer to the question about me, I am 6"2', slightly effeminate looking in my features (not helped by my very CLEAN and RESPECTABLE pony tail) but also well built. It's true that I have never been so thankful for my height than when in Thailand..

I suppose I do come from a good family. Father is a BBC news reader, mother a teacher. Not rich but comfortable upbringing. My family is vegetarian, so I have been since birth (so much for eating the weirder foods they may offer me..). Currently I'm doing a philosophy degree, I'm fairly poor (still working to have enough to pay the 12000 baht rent for my two months out there in summer, let alone food) but it doesn't show.

As for having things in common..the younger brother is something of an artist which I can deifnitely be 'interested in'. The older brother (still younger than the gf) is a law student, not so sure about him.

Should I take gifts or not? My girlfriend says she isn't sure, but maybe something for the Mother..I moaned at her for being so unsure about stuff, but she seems to be going through a mini indentity crisis having been so sure they would be overjoyed to meet me in the first instance.

Thanks again for all your help.

- Will.

[wolf5370]

Yep, take gifts.

Small somethings for the brothers - ask sis to help here (Liverpool FC mugs ?). For mum, a nice ornament from the UK and some flowers/chocolate. For papa, a bottle of Scotch whisky (if he drinks), or something to show off with at work perhaps.

Be polite and learn "Thai Culture Shock" by heart!

Do not touch her (especially the hair).

Do not try and hold her hand or kiss her in eyeshot of family.

Follow her lead.

If your Thai is up to it, and you catch a 'not-so-nice' comment, let your G/F deal with it.

Keep your cool and try to keep expressionless - Thais often read faces (farang faces) to mean something other than we mean (I still get hit with this, wife asks if she can buy something, I screw up my face momentarily as I calculate the cost or just think about it, and she reads it as "I don't like you buying things" - no matter how many times I have explianed it).

If someone says something and the others laugh (perhaps everyone except your GF), don't assunme it was directed at you. If it was, ignore it. Don't bite.

Brothers will take their lead from big sis and mum. Most likely if they don't like you, they will disappear somewhere and you'll see them little. Just ke4ep Ma and Pa on side. Get you GF to explain the Veggie stuff to mum ahead, so she can brief the cook (if she has one) and you won't arrive to mum's crispy-chicken-feet special!

Remember above all, families usually come around. I have a good friend who comes from a very wealthy Thai-Chinese family. He fell for a girl from a lower class family (in their eyes) - Thai family of middle class, but Father works (military) rather than buys/sells politicions for a job - Mum even tried to get me to pretend she was easy and had made a move on me too - which I did not do.

They have been married for about 10 years now, have 3 daughters, and are quite succesfull business wise. Mum now accepts them, Dad is as indifferent as he always was. Yet, I was there when lies and accuasation were made at this poor girl - even after their second daughter was born. Once there was even a public kicking contest - in my restaurant (in the UK) - I had to close it for the night.

[Bluecat]

Oxford,

I feel your pain and I know what you are going through. Unfortunately, the older upper classes in Thailand still see a relationship with a farang as a major step down.

It's sure not going to be easy.

Whatever you do, you do not look very "conservative" if the ponytail is any indication.

Chinese-Thai families are EXTREMELY conservative.

Have you ever heard of the bamboo network? Chinese stay with chinese and do not accept easily "outsiders".

If they do, it means there will be some added value for the FAMILY.

Are you adding value?

How can you prove it?

And as some other people said, love is not the major concern.

Sorry.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Your problem is that they are well off fiancially and Thai/Chinese. If they were farmers, you would more than likely be welcomed with open arms. But these people don't need you and they are constantly concerned about status.

So if it was me, I'd try to let them know that I am on their level.

I'd play up the Father BBC News reader bit. That sounds somewhat impressive. Maybe look for your moment when UBC is on and say, 'hey, there's Dad', in a casual tone of voice.

Let them know you're an intelligent man currently studying at a top university.

Don't let them know that you are struggling to pay rent or buy food.

And then, be polite and the ball is in their court.

[Daviethailand]

OxfordWill

Please do not get bogged down with the politics of Thai or Thai/Chinese culture and be certain that you do not pretend to be someone you are not.

Forget the presents for the brothers and concentrate on showing the Parents respect and show that you respect the daughter. They will want to see how the daughter has changed since living in Engalnd and will want to observe how you interact with her.

Be yourself and on the best behaviour, a nice meal with the Parents and lots of visits to her friends, you want to know about her also.

Smile and stick to the daughter like glue.

A present from England for the Parents would not go amiss.

Best of Luck.

[OxfordWill]

Thanks fellas,

Lots of information to take on board and I am positive it will all prove useful in some way.

If I find you in the Kingdom I'll be sure to buy a round!

- Will.

[Nam Kao]

Oxford, finish this girl and go find a girl in an orphanage, no baggage

And NEVER NEVER marry a Thai-Chinese

regards

Nam

[OxfordWill]

Oxford, finish this girl and go find a girl in an orphanage, no baggage

And NEVER NEVER marry a Thai-Chinese

regards

Nam

Heh, if only it were that easy.

[NedKelly]

Best not to stay at the family house I would think. That would normally indicate that you will marry the girl ! Is this on your agenda ? be respectful and stay in a hotel but not at Nana or some other shocker location in Bangkok surrounded by dodgy bar girls.

Gift for the Mum. Sure. For the brothers...it would be a good way to put them in their place. Knowing that they despise you for shagging their big sister, they will have to save face by accepting your gift graciously, thus putting them in their place.

If all this fails. Dont worry. Your still a young tacker wet behind the ears.

[bangsaen bob]

I hate to throw a spanner into your works, but I'm afraid it's the general feeling in Thailand, when a falang is with a Thai girl, the girl must me a whore. My wife gets that shit all the time. When I ask her about it, she says "she doesn't care what people say who don't know".

Generally speaking, it seems that a lot of girls who marry falangs want to get out of the country so they don't have to deal with the stigma.

[taxexile]

Please do not get bogged down with the politics of Thai or Thai/Chinese culture and be certain that you do not pretend to be someone you are not.

Forget the presents for the brothers and concentrate on showing the Parents respect and show that you respect the daughter.

i second that. just go with the flow and dont worry about it all too much.

very nice presents for the parents if you are to be introduced as the boyfriend or if you are staying at the house, ( twenty quid spent on something small but of very good quality will be appreciated more than forty quids worth of tat.)

and if you forget yourself and let loose a monster fart at the dinner table, in traditional chinese culture you always blame the mother by giving her a long hard stare.