Most Thais Think Economy Bad, Getting Worse

[carmine]

20 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

Thank you.  I've been in Thailand for 20 years working as an economic consultant to the hotel and industrial sectors.  Now we are advising buy in many areas outside of Bangkok that will be associated with the future transportation sector expansion. 

Yep the tourist industry really is booming isn't it.??

 

The spenders, the europeans are massively down in numbers and were inundated with Chinese that spend about 200 baht over a weeks visit!!!!  Great for the sale of Mama noodles and the convenience store franchises i guess.

[Rarebear]

18 minutes ago, carmine said:

Yep the tourist industry really is booming isn't it.??

 

The spenders, the europeans are massively down in numbers and were inundated with Chinese that spend about 200 baht over a weeks visit!!!!  Great for the sale of Mama noodles and the convenience store franchises i guess.

Maybe you should get up to date on Chinese tourist spending.  Estimates are around 50,000 baht a week.

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, Rarebear said:

Went to a meeting last night of Thai people who were buying up real estate like crazy and all think the economy is great.  Depends on where you are and what new services are being constructed in your area.  Lots of new high speed trains and new motorways and new industrial parks in some areas that employ poor people.  Can't find common labor and have to import millions of people from Burma and Lao.  How many foreign laborers (poor people) is Thailand now employing?

As everywhere else, the economy is great for the so-called one percent, for the rest, not so much...

 

About these new high speed trains, where can I board one? I have yet to see any, probably because I live in a remote area.

 

As for the foreign work force, it is just like everywhere else, coming from "sh..hole countries" (TM D.J.Trump), they are ready to accept even worse working conditions than the locals!

Nothing new here, slavery is doing fine in the 21st century...

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Really? So without economists, there would be no supply and demand?

 

You are the Guillermo Vilas of the forum!

This indefatigable tennis player could stay behind his line and send the ball back seemingly for ever...

[carmine]

10 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

Maybe you should get up to date on Chinese tourist spending.  Estimates are around 50,000 baht a week.

Where are they then?  All the ones we see follow some bloke around who is carrying a big red flag and spend in a week what the rest of us spend on a sunday roast.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, JAG said:

They are just as much part of the economy as the monied are. They are the "most Thais" for whom the economy is not doing well. They are the ones which it is leaving behind. This has huge social and political implications which if not addressed will some day really hurt the economy, and by extension the relatively small number that you might classify as being" in the Thai economy per se."

Economies sometimes work beyond the ability of government to affect directly, but the recent action to close potentially most of the guest houses in the country by imposing new regulations which are in the most case impossible to implement on existing buildings, has the risk of causing a significant rise in unemployment and poverty for many thousands of Thais, which is certain to come back to bite the authors of this poorly thought out policy.

Hopefully, the authorities will see the error, and take steps to reverse it.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

Maybe you should get up to date on Chinese tourist spending.  Estimates are around 50,000 baht a week.

I get the impression from your posts that you are very well paid to associate with very rich Thais. 

Have you spent any time in a Thai village where people really are poor? Do you know any ordinary Thais, the ones that don't have money to buy much, let alone property?

If you actually think the average Chinese tourist on a package tour spends 50,000 a week I have a bridge to sell you.

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I get the impression from your posts that you are very well paid to associate with very rich Thais. 

Have you spent any time in a Thai village where people really are poor? Do you know any ordinary Thais, the ones that don't have money to buy much, let alone property?

If you actually think the average Chinese tourist on a package tour spends 50,000 a week I have a bridge to sell you.

Either that or he just making up stories to stay in the conversation. There is a word for that. 

 

[mogandave]

Where are they then?  All the ones we see follow some bloke around who is carrying a big red flag and spend in a week what the rest of us spend on a sunday roast.

You mean they’re not sitting around a hot, open-air bar-beer nursing piss-warm Leo’s?

No shortage of tourists wandering around Siam Paragon spending long money.

[KiwiKiwi]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I get the impression from your posts that you are very well paid to associate with very rich Thais. 

Have you spent any time in a Thai village where people really are poor? Do you know any ordinary Thais, the ones that don't have money to buy much, let alone property?

If you actually think the average Chinese tourist on a package tour spends 50,000 a week I have a bridge to sell you.

 

 

He works as an economist of sorts doesn't he?

 

Might be relevant.

[Happyman58]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

And Castro successfully ran one of the world's least successful economies in the past century. His dependence on the Soviet Union was legendary, and once that collapsed, so did Cuba. The poverty there was astonishing. I visited many times, and it was difficult to see the Cuban people, who I so like and admire, in that position. Little P. is leading his own people in that direction, though nowhere near as extreme. He is incompetent beyond one's wildest imagination, and has only appointed people who are equally incompetent. 

 

The lies and fabrications about 1% or 2% inflation are offensive, to most of us, who see right through the fiction. Same in the US. Same nonsense, and rampant inflation, everywhere I look. It is sometimes hard to catch one's breath, at the pace of rising prices. 

You know Mike i never thought Castro was good for Cuba. But the guy before him Batista just did what little P:  is doing to the Thais Keep the poor poorer and let the rich get richer. I am afraid when people have no hope left these people like Castro rise from the ashes 

[mogandave]

Like a Duncan-Hines Cake...

[KiwiKiwi]

26 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

You know Mike i never thought Castro was good for Cuba. But the guy before him Batista just did what little P:  is doing to the Thais Keep the poor poorer and let the rich get richer. I am afraid when people have no hope left these people like Castro rise from the ashes 

 

Pigs thrive where they can poop on everything and steal all the food.

[Rarebear]

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I get the impression from your posts that you are very well paid to associate with very rich Thais. 

Have you spent any time in a Thai village where people really are poor? Do you know any ordinary Thais, the ones that don't have money to buy much, let alone property?

If you actually think the average Chinese tourist on a package tour spends 50,000 a week I have a bridge to sell you.

Chinese buyers helped Sansiri sell half of the 77 apartments at 98 Wireless before construction was finished.

Magnolias Ratchadamri Boulevard, some 80 per cent of the units have already been sold, with investors from Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan accounting for more than half.

Four Seasons Private Residences, which is being built on the edge of the Chao Phraya river. Some 70 per cent of the 355 units have already been purchased, with half of the buyers coming from outside Thailand.

Chinese tourists made 130 million overseas trips in 2017, with total spending amounting to $115 billion

Thailand rose from #6 to become the third most popular investment destination for Chinese buyers last year.

 

Chinese are trying to get money out of China.  Is this news to anyone?

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

 

Chinese tourists made 130 million overseas trips in 2017, with total spending amounting to $115 billion

That’s half the information. Most travelers are middle class and low spending tourists who chose Thailand because of its proximity and cheap destination. The high end tourists have other preferences. 

[mogandave]

Chinese buyers helped Sansiri sell half of the 77 apartments at 98 Wireless before construction was finished.
Magnolias Ratchadamri Boulevard, some 80 per cent of the units have already been sold, with investors from Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan accounting for more than half.
Four Seasons Private Residences, which is being built on the edge of the Chao Phraya river. Some 70 per cent of the 355 units have already been purchased, with half of the buyers coming from outside Thailand.
Chinese tourists made 130 million overseas trips in 2017, with total spending amounting to $115 billion
Thailand rose from #6 to become the third most popular investment destination for Chinese buyers last year.
 
Chinese are trying to get money out of China.  Is this news to anyone?

That is surprising given the inherent fairness of communism

[thaiguzzi]

22 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

Chinese buyers helped Sansiri sell half of the 77 apartments at 98 Wireless before construction was finished.

Magnolias Ratchadamri Boulevard, some 80 per cent of the units have already been sold, with investors from Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan accounting for more than half.

Four Seasons Private Residences, which is being built on the edge of the Chao Phraya river. Some 70 per cent of the 355 units have already been purchased, with half of the buyers coming from outside Thailand.

Chinese tourists made 130 million overseas trips in 2017, with total spending amounting to $115 billion

Thailand rose from #6 to become the third most popular investment destination for Chinese buyers last year.

 

Chinese are trying to get money out of China.  Is this news to anyone?

Yeah, we know that.

And you think this is great, progressive news that the Chinese are buying up real estate in NZ and Australia, Thailand, and the rest of SE Asia to the point that soon they will pretty much own Laos and Cambodia?

And the Arabs and Russians buying up all the central London prime real estate is great for GB?

And all the above equals they are pricing locals out of their own market?

Jeez, all kneel down and pray for the great God of Money, Profit and Greed.

  Meanwhile, in the Real World....

[mogandave]

Yeah, we know that.
And you think this is great, progressive news that the Chinese are buying up real estate in NZ and Australia, Thailand, and the rest of SE Asia to the point that soon they will pretty much own Laos and Cambodia?
And the Arabs and Russians buying up all the central London prime real estate is great for GB?
And all the above equals they are pricing locals out of their own market?
Jeez, all kneel down and pray for the great God of Money, Profit and Greed.
  Meanwhile, in the Real World....

RACIST!!!

[Rarebear]

58 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Yeah, we know that.

And you think this is great, progressive news that the Chinese are buying up real estate in NZ and Australia, Thailand, and the rest of SE Asia to the point that soon they will pretty much own Laos and Cambodia?

And the Arabs and Russians buying up all the central London prime real estate is great for GB?

And all the above equals they are pricing locals out of their own market?

Jeez, all kneel down and pray for the great God of Money, Profit and Greed.

  Meanwhile, in the Real World....

If the topic is economic protectionism they I'll comment.  If not your post is wildly off topic and should be removed.  If not I'll continue to respond to post that deal with the topic that is some Thai's are not bright enough to realize the economy is doing well in all sectors including tourism and balance of payments and running along at full employment. 

[Dumbastheycome]

15 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The next crash will go beyond financial markets, it may even not start from there.

Of course, none of the weaknesses that existed in 2008 have been corrected, but the underlying situation is now much worse than it was ten years ago.

Debt, for example, has increased by 50% even though it was considered that too much debt was the main cause of the 2008 disaster.

 

Meanwhile, people have forgotten that the global economy has never recovered, despite the official talk.

The economy has been going on, only under respiratory assistance (zero or near zero interest rates) and massive doping (trillions of dollars created out of thin air).

The coming crash will be final because central banks have no munitions left: pushing interest rates way below zero? Printing more fake money?

The powers that be know that very well, which is why the drums of wars are heard louder and louder...an escape has to be found...

Scarily true .

 

 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

Anyone that believes that a financial boon does not benefit the poor, must also believe a financial crash will have no negative impact on the poor.

[bkk6060]

18 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The next crash will go beyond financial markets, it may even not start from there.

Of course, none of the weaknesses that existed in 2008 have been corrected, but the underlying situation is now much worse than it was ten years ago.

Debt, for example, has increased by 50% even though it was considered that too much debt was the main cause of the 2008 disaster.

 

Meanwhile, people have forgotten that the global economy has never recovered, despite the official talk.

The economy has been going on, only under respiratory assistance (zero or near zero interest rates) and massive doping (trillions of dollars created out of thin air).

The coming crash will be final because central banks have no munitions left: pushing interest rates way below zero? Printing more fake money?

The powers that be know that very well, which is why the drums of wars are heard louder and louder...an escape has to be found...

Total Doomsday nonsense from the uneducated.

 

[Brunolem]

52 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Total Doomsday nonsense from the uneducated.

 

Other members seem to disagree with you.

 

Anyway, you are welcome to elaborate and enlighten us with your education, since name calling and dismissal are not enough to make an argument...

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, Rarebear said:

Chinese buyers helped Sansiri sell half of the 77 apartments at 98 Wireless before construction was finished.

Magnolias Ratchadamri Boulevard, some 80 per cent of the units have already been sold, with investors from Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan accounting for more than half.

Four Seasons Private Residences, which is being built on the edge of the Chao Phraya river. Some 70 per cent of the 355 units have already been purchased, with half of the buyers coming from outside Thailand.

Chinese tourists made 130 million overseas trips in 2017, with total spending amounting to $115 billion

Thailand rose from #6 to become the third most popular investment destination for Chinese buyers last year.

 

Chinese are trying to get money out of China.  Is this news to anyone?

No news here.

Like everywhere else, the Chinese 1% are swimming in dough and buying luxury real estate like candies.

They already bought most of Vancouver, pushing the prices into the stratosphere.

And they also buy Lamborghinis for their children to go to university!

 

Needless to say that 1% of 1.3 billion is still a lot of people, and a lot of money to invest somewhere, anywhere except in China...which says a lot about how much the rich Chinese believe in the Chinese economic "miracle"...

 

Meanwhile, down to Earth, the other Chinese follow their guide and his little flag.

 

The average spending doesn't mean much since very big spenders tilt the scale...one guy spending half a million baht a week and nine other spending close to nothing, and there you have an average weekly spending of 50,000 baht!

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Rarebear said:

If the topic is economic protectionism they I'll comment.  If not your post is wildly off topic and should be removed.  If not I'll continue to respond to post that deal with the topic that is some Thai's are not bright enough to realize the economy is doing well in all sectors including tourism and balance of payments and running along at full employment. 

I am not convinced that a privileged Westerner is in the best position to tell the locals how dumb they are to not see how fine is their economy!

 

Once again, the economy as shown with a compilation of statistics, and how the average guy benefits from it, are two very diffferent things!

 

Examples have already been given about the US where, while the economy is supposedly booming, 3 guys own as much as the lower half of the population (160 million persons)!

[Rarebear]

7 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

No news here.

Like everywhere else, the Chinese 1% are swimming in dough and buying luxury real estate like candies.

They already bought most of Vancouver, pushing the prices into the stratosphere.

And they also buy Lamborghinis for their children to go to university!

 

Needless to say that 1% of 1.3 billion is still a lot of people, and a lot of money to invest somewhere, anywhere except in China...which says a lot about how much the rich Chinese believe in the Chinese economic "miracle"...

 

Meanwhile, down to Earth, the other Chinese follow their guide and his little flag.

 

The average spending doesn't mean much since very big spenders tilt the scale...one guy spending half a million baht a week and nine other spending close to nothing, and there you have an average weekly spending of 50,000 baht!

I think you are a bit out of date.  Lets give you the tourist test.

 

1.  What percent of Chinese tourists are independent travelers?  Hint.  It's 60 to 70%

 

2.  Tourists from what country spend five times as much as British tourists?  Hint.  It starts with Chin.

 

3.  Did Chinese tourists spend 3 times as much ($292 billion) as American tourists True or False? 

 

“Chinese travellers spend double the international average, so their impact in local economies can be huge,” Rifai says

Now 60 per cent to 70 per cent of Chinese arrivals are independent travellers

Chinese tourists spent $292 billion (£224 billion) abroad in 2015, nearly three times as much as the second biggest spenders, the Americans, and nearly five times as much as Britons abroad.

 

http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2113116/how-chinese-tourists-are-changing-world

[Brunolem]

10 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

I think you are a bit out of date.  Lets give you the tourist test.

 

1.  What percent of Chinese tourists are independent travelers?  Hint.  It's 60 to 70%

 

2.  Tourists from what country spend five times as much as British tourists?  Hint.  It starts with Chin.

 

3.  Did Chinese tourists spend 3 times as much ($292 billion) as American tourists True or False? 

 

“Chinese travellers spend double the international average, so their impact in local economies can be huge,” Rifai says

Now 60 per cent to 70 per cent of Chinese arrivals are independent travellers

Chinese tourists spent $292 billion (£224 billion) abroad in 2015, nearly three times as much as the second biggest spenders, the Americans, and nearly five times as much as Britons abroad.

 

http://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2113116/how-chinese-tourists-are-changing-world

All this being fantastic since the Chinese GDP per capita is still lower than that of Thailand, not to say anything about the US and Europe.

 

Meanwhile, Chinese incomes are still way below Western incomes, otherwise all the Western companies would repatriate their production.

 

So, despite a significant difference in wealth, the Chinese still manage to largely overspend the Westerners.

 

On top of that, it is wellknown that Chinese are real estate bugs, putting most or all their savings in buying condos and houses.

 

So it seems that they have found a recipe to multiply, not the bread, but the dough...they are welcome to pass it on...

Edited June 9, 2018 by Brunolem

[Rarebear]

9 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

I am not convinced that a privileged Westerner is in the best position to tell the locals how dumb they are to not see how fine is their economy!

 

Once again, the economy as shown with a compilation of statistics, and how the average guy benefits from it, are two very diffferent things!

 

Examples have already been given about the US where, while the economy is supposedly booming, 3 guys own as much as the lower half of the population (160 million persons)!

How would you get your economic information?  Ask the local farmer or Som Tam seller or the IMF?

[watcharacters]

On 6/6/2018 at 5:38 PM, spidermike007 said:

Restaurants, hotels, gift shops, and travel agencies, that cater to tourists. All are saying the same thing, in the resort areas. I am not making this up.

 

You must really get around a lot.  "All are saying the same thing, in the resort areas"

[Rarebear]

Just now, Brunolem said:

All this being fantastic since the Chinese GDP per capita is still lower than that of Thailand, not to say anything about the US and Europe.

 

Meanwhile, Chinese incomes are still way below Western incomes, otherwise all the Western companies would repatriate their production.

 

So, despite a significant difference in wealth, the Chinese still manage to largely overspend the Westerners.

 

On top of that, it is wellknown that Chinese are real estate bugs, putting most or all their savings in buying condos and houses.

There are so many more Chinese that the upper 10% is the same as the upper 80% of many countries.  If 1% of Chinese buy something it is worth opening up a Jaguar factory in  Changshu.  A Chinese buying a condo is putting hard currency from China into the Thai economy benefiting everyone from poor to rich.