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[webfact]

Britain's May defuses revolt in parliament over Brexit plans

By Elizabeth Piper, Andrew MacAskill and William James

 

An anti-Brexit protester waves an EU flag opposite the Houses of Parliament in London, Britain June 8, 2018. REUTERS/Simon Dawson

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Theresa May defused a rebellion in parliament over her Brexit plans on Tuesday but only after having to compromise and hand lawmakers more control over Britain's departure from the European Union.

 

After winning Tuesday's ballot over changes to a future "meaningful vote" on a final agreement with Brussels in her EU withdrawal bill, May's plans to end more than 40 years of membership in the bloc were still on track.

 

Her concession to discuss the changes may mean lawmakers could have more power if she fails to secure aBrexit deal, possibly leading to a softer approach to Britain's divorce. However, as things stand now, they will not be able to send the government back into negotiations if they reject an agreement with the EU.

 

Brexit campaigners still voiced concern that the concession may open the door to the EU trying to force Britain into retaining the closest possible ties with the bloc by weakening the government's hand in the talks.

 

Pro-EU lawmakers, however, welcomed it as a signal that the government was moving towards ruling out a hardline "no deal" Brexit.

 

For now, May saw off a revolt that would have challenged her authority at a time when she is increasingly under pressure to move ahead with all-but-stalled Brexit talks in Brussels by offering a more detailed plan.

 

The pound traded higher against the euro and the dollar after the votes.

 

Brexit minister David Davis had earlier warned lawmakers that the government would never allow them to "reverse Brexit" or undermine negotiations.

 

After the vote, a Brexit department spokesman said: "We have not, and will not, agree to the House of Commons binding the government's hands in the negotiation."

 

The government's victory was the first major win in two days of debates on its EU withdrawal bill, which will sever ties with the EU, after the upper house of parliament, the House of Lords, introduced 15 changes.

 

It followed a strained parliamentary session, where the deep nationwide divisions opened up by Britain's vote to leave the EU in 2016 were on display, with pro-EU lawmakers saying they had received death threats.

 

CONCESSIONS

In a tense atmosphere where it was not clear which way the vote would go, the government secured its victory only after offering concessions to one of the leaders of a group of Conservative lawmakers who were threatening to vote against May.

 

An hour before the vote, the government's solicitor general, Robert Buckland, promised lawmaker Dominic Grieve talks on increasing the powers of parliament if May was unable to reach agreement in Brussels. The two then discussed a deal in whispers as other lawmakers made speeches around them. It was sealed at a private meeting between May and potential rebels.

 

Buckland indicated the government would look into the possibility of adopting Grieve's push for ministers to secure parliamentary approval for their Brexit plans if they fail to negotiate a deal with the EU. It paid off.

 

"I'm quite satisfied that we are going to get a meaningful vote on both 'deal' and 'no deal'," Grieve told Sky News.

 

But the latest manoeuvre by a minority government that has been forced to compromise with parliament worried some lawmakers who feared it would hand the EU an incentive to withhold any agreement on an exit deal to force a "softer" Brexit.

 

"This needs to be resolved," Andrew Bridgen, a pro-Brexit Conservative lawmaker, told Reuters.

 

The Labour Party's Chuka Umunna, who backed staying in the EU, welcomed the concession as the end of the government threatening to allow Britain to crash out of the EU without a deal.

 

KICKING DOWN THE ROAD

Earlier, May appeared to have also stemmed a rebellion on Wednesday over her commitment to leaving the EU's customs union which will transform Britain's trading relationships for decades to come.

 

But her parliamentary problems will not stop there. Rebels have said they will challenge May's plans to leave the customs union during votes on other bills, on trade and customs, which will be brought back to the house some time before July 24.

 

There is little May can do. After losing her party's majority in parliament at an ill-judged election last year, she now relies on the support of a small Northern Irish party and the distance between victory and defeat is narrow.

 

Often she simply puts off votes that could end in embarrassing defeats.

 

But as time ticks by, she can no longer kick decisions down the road, increasingly under pressure from EU negotiators to come up with detailed positions not only on customs, but also on the wider trade agreement and governance.

 

The EU is expecting her to have made progress by a summit in June and both sides want to reach a deal by October.

 

In a day of drama, May's position seemed suddenly weaker when junior justice minister Phillip Lee, who has long been critical of Brexit strategy, resigned and said he would vote against the government.

 

Labour's Brexit policy chief, Keir Starmer, said May had been forced to avoid a "humiliating defeat" and "to enter negotiations with her backbenchers".

 

(Additional reporting by Michael Holden; Editing by Mark Heinrich)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-13

[phantomfiddler]

Keep it up, Theresa, soon we will be shot of all those parasitic losers ?

[ResandePohm]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

Keep it up, Theresa, soon we will be shot of all those parasitic losers ?

It would appear that you like seeing your savings and pension in the UK diminish by more than 20% or is it that you do not live abroad. If that is the case then wait until all imported goods go up in price by 20%. Who will you blame then?

[SupermarineS6B]

Scaremongering's finished mate........ more holes in it than a French whoore.......

[BuaBS]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

to end more than 40 years of membership in the bloc were still on track.

Maybe technically > 40 years , but in the beginning it was just the EEC , european economic community. It went bad in 1993 with the Treaty of Maastricht and then seriously off the rails with the adoption of the euro in 2002. The brits were lucky to stay out of the euro , as the Skandinavians and Eastern euro countries.

Don't bother to correct me on the dates that started the EU . It went downhill from the beginning of the nineties.

It's the last part of those 40 years that the Brits are trying to loose , not the first part , an economic union.

[connda]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

Britain's May defuses revolt in parliament over Brexit plans

She left office?

[dick dasterdly]

The saga of trying to derail brexit goes on and on....

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The saga of trying to derail brexit goes on and on....

Significantly that has been a Hard Brexiteer story and what they want is a car crash Brexit bypassing Parliamentary consideration all down the line. A part of that story has been the removal of Theresa May and replacement by either Davis or Mogg. It is that scenario which is derailed for now.

[dunroaming]

6 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Keep it up, Theresa, soon we will be shot of all those parasitic losers ?

So as I understand it, what her concessions last night  meant were that,  May has got until the 30th November to come up with an agreed deal with the EU or parliament gets a say.  If it is not agreed by February 2019 then the negotiations are handed over to parliament to make the final decisions.  This effectively means that any "no deal"  is now completely off of the table.

 

Obviously, after the EU have been pushing hard for the UK's proposals, they will now do their best to slow the process down which will force May to agree to more concessions and a softer Brexit before the November deadline.

 

If phantomfiddler thinks that May is doing a good job then I can only imagine that he doesn't understand just what a screw-up she has made of this.

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, ResandePohm said:

It would appear that you like seeing your savings and pension in the UK diminish by more than 20% or is it that you do not live abroad. If that is the case then wait until all imported goods go up in price by 20%. Who will you blame then?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Thailands exchange rate is 20% worse than pre-brexit but only by coincidence.

All the other Asian exchange rates are the same or better than they were before Brexit.

As long as you don't live in Thailand, you won't have a problem.

Edited June 13, 2018 by BritManToo

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Thailands exchange rate is 20% worse than pre-brexit but only by coincidence.

All the other Asian exchange rates are the same or better than they were before Brexit.

As long as you don't live in Thailand, you won't have a problem.

"As long as you don't live in Thailand, you won't have a problem."  ?

Leave right now!

 

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

So as I understand it, what her concessions last night  meant were that,  May has got until the 30th November to come up with an agreed deal with the EU or parliament gets a say.  If it is not agreed by February 2019 then the negotiations are handed over to parliament to make the final decisions.  This effectively means that any "no deal"  is now completely off of the table.

Obviously, after the EU have been pushing hard for the UK's proposals, they will now do their best to slow the process down which will force May to agree to more concessions and a softer Brexit before the November deadline.

If phantomfiddler thinks that May is doing a good job then I can only imagine that he doesn't understand just what a screw-up she has made of this.

Hard Brexiteers starting their moaning already.

[dick dasterdly]

17 hours ago, dunroaming said:

So as I understand it, what her concessions last night  meant were that,  May has got until the 30th November to come up with an agreed deal with the EU or parliament gets a say.  If it is not agreed by February 2019 then the negotiations are handed over to parliament to make the final decisions.  This effectively means that any "no deal"  is now completely off of the table.

 

Obviously, after the EU have been pushing hard for the UK's proposals, they will now do their best to slow the process down which will force May to agree to more concessions and a softer Brexit before the November deadline.

 

If phantomfiddler thinks that May is doing a good job then I can only imagine that he doesn't understand just what a screw-up she has made of this.

 

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Hard Brexiteers starting their moaning already.

It depends on how you look at it.

 

The referendum result was to leave the eu, but parliament/the eu and the media have turned this into 'hard or soft' brexit - and 'soft' brexit (if I understand correctly) means remaining part of the customs union and continuing to support the eu financially?  i.e. Not leaving in any meaningful sense of the word.

 

If this is the case, it's hardly suprising that brexiteers are less than happy!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

It depends on how you look at it.

 

The referendum result was to leave the eu, but parliament/the eu and the media have turned this into 'hard or soft' brexit - and 'soft' brexit (if I understand correctly) means remaining part of the customs union and continuing to support the eu financially?  i.e. Not leaving in any meaningful sense of the word.

 

If this is the case, it's hardly suprising that brexiteers are less than happy!

It might have been an idea to present a plan before deciding to set off.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

It depends on how you look at it.

 

The referendum result was to leave the eu, but parliament/the eu and the media have turned this into 'hard or soft' brexit - and 'soft' brexit (if I understand correctly) means remaining part of the customs union and continuing to support the eu financially?  i.e. Not leaving in any meaningful sense of the word.

 

If this is the case, it's hardly suprising that brexiteers are less than happy!

 

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It might have been an idea to present a plan before deciding to set off.

Yes.

 

Blame Cameron and the govt. for being so confident that the result would be remain, that they never bothered coming up with a plan in the event of a leave vote.....

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Yes.

 

Blame Cameron and the govt. for being so confident that the result would be remain, that they never bothered coming up with a plan in the event of a leave vote.....

I agree with you to an extent, but what if they foresaw the mess that we have ended up in because the complexity of the task at hand was evident but downplayed? Surely it was and still is incumbent upon the leave side to prepare a credible road map to disengagement?

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I agree with you to an extent, but what if they foresaw the mess that we have ended up in because the complexity of the task at hand was evident but downplayed? Surely it was and still is incumbent upon the leave side to prepare a credible road map to disengagement?

"but what if they foresaw the mess that we have ended up in because the complexity of the task at hand was evident but downplayed?"

 

Even more reason to come up with a plan in the event of a leave vote.

 

Not to mention, it was FAR from "downplayed" - project fear was in full force.  Osborne's promised punishment budget (in the event of a leave vote) is proof of that!

 

As it turned out, I suspect the obvious government/media 'project fear' only annoyed a large proportion of the electorate into voting leave.  NOBODY likes to be treated as if they were entirely stupid....

Edited June 14, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

and 'soft' brexit (if I understand correctly) means remaining part of the customs union and continuing to support the eu financially?

EU wants 'protection money' or they smash all the business.

Didn't the Krays do that?

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"but what if they foresaw the mess that we have ended up in because the complexity of the task at hand was evident but downplayed?"

 

Even more reason to come up with a plan in the event of a leave vote.

 

Not to mention, it was FAR from "downplayed" - project fear was in full force.  Osborne's promised punishment budget (in the event of a leave vote) is proof of that!

 

As it turned out, I suspect the obvious government/media 'project fear' only annoyed a large proportion of the electorate into voting leave.  NOBODY likes to be treated as if they were entirely stupid....

Sorry for quoting myself, but the remainers 'lapped up' all the project fear propaganda - and even now, still believe every OPINION expressed by the remain politicians and media - as long as it suits their cause.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, BritManToo said:

EU wants 'protection money' or they smash all the business.

Didn't the Krays do that?

The eu isn't that stupid as they have to consider business in other eu countries TO the uk.

 

It's relying on uk politicians to deliver a 'soft' brexit that results in uk money still being paid, whilst adhering to the customs union.  i.e. nothing much changing....

Edited June 14, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Sorry for quoting myself, but the remainers 'lapped up' all the project fear propaganda - and even now, still believe every OPINION expressed by the remain politicians and media - as long as it suits their cause.

And yet you wish to ignore the Remain arguments before the referendum that the negotiations would be extremely difficult and that the EU would not fold to UK demands.

 

You resort to the ‘wrap all up’ phrase ‘Project Fear’, it provides you the convenience of lumping warnings of real problems that have come to pass with wild warnings that few if any believed would come about.

 

 

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You resort to the ‘wrap all up’ phrase ‘Project Fear’, it provides you the convenience of lumping warnings of real problems that have come to pass with wild warnings that few if any believed would come about.

Please list, along with credible sources of all these real problems that have come to pass ?

 

Other than a fall in Sterling, I look forward to your blank posting.

 

Immediate recession ? Nah

 

Emergency Budget ? Nah.

 

Housing market collapse ? Nah

 

Plague of locusts ? Nah

 

The only problems that are occurring are being caused by remainers and the EU negotiating team who are desperately trying to keep the UK under the thumb of both Brussels and the ECJ and to keep the UK handing over £ Billions upon Billions of the UK's money for the pleasure.

[RuamRudy]

46 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"but what if they foresaw the mess that we have ended up in because the complexity of the task at hand was evident but downplayed?"

 

Even more reason to come up with a plan in the event of a leave vote.

 

Not to mention, it was FAR from "downplayed" - project fear was in full force.  Osborne's promised punishment budget (in the event of a leave vote) is proof of that!

 

As it turned out, I suspect the obvious government/media 'project fear' only annoyed a large proportion of the electorate into voting leave.  NOBODY likes to be treated as if they were entirely stupid....

But you are placing responsibility for delivery on the plate of the remainers - regardless of the veracity of their claims in the run up to the referendum, there was a clear coterie of leading brexiteers who failed to deliver a credible vision, and subsequently have failed to deliver a credible plan. 

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Please list, along with credible sources of all these real problems that have come to pass ?

 

Other than a fall in Sterling, I look forward to your blank posting.

 

Immediate recession ? Nah

 

Emergency Budget ? Nah.

 

Housing market collapse ? Nah

 

Plague of locusts ? Nah

 

The only problems that are occurring are being caused by remainers and the EU negotiating team who are desperately trying to keep the UK under the thumb of both Brussels and the ECJ and to keep the UK handing over £ Billions upon Billions of the UK's money for the pleasure.

Thank you for demonstrating the exact Brexiteer trick I was referring to, pointing at the excessive claims that few if anyone believed would come about, while ignoring real problems that were predicted:

 

- The UK Irish border.

- The problem that each of 27 EU member nations have aindependent and sovereign right to reject any agreement the UK wishes to make.

- That the EU will not give the UK special terms.

- That Leave has no plan.

 

The list goes on.

[The Renegade]

Quote

Attempts to keep the UK in the European Economic Area after Brexit have been defeated in the House of Commons, amid a major Labour revolt over the issue.

 

MPs reversed a move to retain the UK's EEA links after it leaves the EU next year, which had been backed by the House of Lords, by 327 votes to 126.

There is no way on this earth that the EEA route meant leaving the EU

 

Quote

All members of the EU also belong to the EEA, alongside non-EU countries Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein.

 

In return for market access, the latter are obliged to make a financial contribution and accept the majority of EU laws. The free movement of people also applies in the zone as it does in the EU.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-44474661

 

The EU had better change its focus from trying to keep the UK tied to at the hip to the EU and start focusing on a mutually beneficial trade deal or start preparing for WTO rules.

 

That is now the only options they have.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thank you for demonstrating the exact Brexiteer trick I was referring to, pointing at the excessive claims that few if anyone believed would come about, while ignoring real problems that were predicted:

 

- The UK Irish border.

- The problem that each of 27 EU member nations have aindependent and sovereign right to reject any agreement the UK wishes to make.

- That the EU will not give the UK special terms.

- That Leave has no plan.

 

The list goes on.

Great response.

 

18 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Please list, along with credible sources of all these real problems that have come to pass ?

Try again. List all those things that have come to pass

 

None of what you list have actually came to pass, they are still ongoing and will be probably right up to 28 March 2019.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Yes.

 

Blame Cameron and the govt. for being so confident that the result would be remain, that they never bothered coming up with a plan in the event of a leave vote.....

A wonderful example of Brexieeter denial.

 

The absence of a Brexit plan was a cornerstone of Remain arguments in the run up to the referendum.

 

Those who voted for Brexit did so in the full knowledge there was no plan.

 

Brexit without a plan was the package.

 

 

Don’t now pretend the responsibility for getting into Brexit without a plan is down to somebody else.

 

You voted for it, you own it.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thank you for demonstrating the exact Brexiteer trick I was referring to, pointing at the excessive claims that few if anyone believed would come about, while ignoring real problems that were predicted:

 

- The UK Irish border.

- The problem that each of 27 EU member nations have aindependent and sovereign right to reject any agreement the UK wishes to make.

- That the EU will not give the UK special terms.

- That Leave has no plan.

 

The list goes on.

So tell them to do one. Germany can keep it's cars.

Everything is made in China these days, no need to deal with EU re-sellers.

Give British agri the chance to grow crops again without the cheap EU produce dumping.

Escort all Euro nationals to the ferry port and wave them bye-bye.

 

I'm all for hard Brexit at gunpoint.

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Great response.

 

Try again. List all those things that have come to pass

 

None of what you list have actually came to pass, they are still ongoing and will be probably right up to 28 March 2019.

What do you mean the Irish border has been solved, the UK is getting what it wants, all of a sudden there’s a plan? 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

So tell them to do one. Germany can keep it's cars.

Everything is made in China these days, no need to deal with EU re-sellers.

Give British agri the chance to grow crops again without the cheap EU produce dumping.

Escort all Euro nationals to the ferry port and wave them bye-bye.

 

I'm all for hard Brexit at gunpoint.

 

Can we get back to reality (adult reality would be preferred).