Democrat, Pheu Thai, future forward, people's reform heads debate democracy

By Pravit Rojanaphruk, Senior Staff Writer

 

Clockwise from top left: Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit (Facebook), Chaturon Chaisang (Matichon), Paiboon Nititawan (Naewna) and Abhisit Vejjajiva (Sanook).

 

BANGKOK — Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said Thursday the leaders of the ruling junta should now reveal their ambitions for political office after the promised elections are held.

 

Speaking at a much-anticipated panel on the future of democracy alongside the leaders of three other parties – Pheu Thai, Future Forward and People’s Reform – Abhisit said the junta should make clear its intentions.

 

Full Story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2018/06/14/democrat-pheu-thai-future-forward-peoples-reform-heads-debate-democracy/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2018-6-14

1 hour ago, snoop1130 said:

Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said Thursday the leaders of the ruling junta should now reveal their ambitions for political office

Abhisit must the Thai equivalent of "Blind Freddy". Almost everyone in the country knows what the PM and his unofficially recognised Junta Party is up to. In case he doesn't know, they are roaming the countryside throwing money about in huge quantities buying popularity and potential votes.

And Abhisit sits back like a submissive pathetic fool and asks if the PM would be nice enough to tell him what's going on.

Edited June 14, 20188 yr by Cadbury

“I only see a bright future. I think you shouldn’t think too much. One thing that people want is peace and order, so the economy can grow,” Paiboon said

 

Encouraging people not to think......no further comment.

Quote

Democrat, Pheu Thai, future forward, people's reform heads debate democracy

 

Having most of those folks debating "democracy" is kind of like having members of the flat earth society debate how round the earth is. I.e, a non sequitur.

 

 

Leading players want charter amended after next election

By KAS CHANWANPEN 
THE NATION

 

From left, Chaturon Chaisang, Thanathorn Juangroonruangkit, Abhisit Vejjajiva, and Paiboon Nititawan – politicians likely to be key players in the next election – yesterday speak at a seminar on Thailand’s future democracy at Thammasat University.

 

Abhisit, Chaturon and Thanathorn see junta’s legacy as barrier to genuine democracy.
 

THE JUNTA-SPONSORED charter, which imposes curbs on politicians, remains the prime target of big political parties who aim to replace it after the election even though it was endorsed in a 2016 national referendum, judging by the comments made at a symposium attended by prominent politicians yesterday.

 

The 2017 Constitution is an obstacle to the development of democracy in Thailand, agreed three politicians at the symposium, while a fourth disagreed. And while the charter has stipulations that make it difficult to amend, the politicians were united in saying that it should be amended and that making changes was feasible if the people desired it.

 

The symposium “Thailand’s Future Democracy: Overcoming Traps and Dreams?”was held yesterday at Thammasat University’s Tha Prachan Campus. 

 

Former Democrat Party prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, former Pheu Thai Party minister Chaturon Chaisang, prominent newcomer and head of Future Forward Party Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit, and pro-junta politician and head of People’s Reform Party Paiboon Nititawan were the speakers.

 

 

Abhisit said democratic development was being blocked by several traps – the Constitution, the organic laws, the junta orders and the 250 junta-appointed senators.

 

He said that although the Constitution was already in place and the country was heading towards a poll, the ruling National Council for Peace and Order’s (NCPO) orders were blocking the election road map it had previously created. 

 

And even if the election happened, he said, it remained uncertain how free and fair it would be given the junta’s absolute power. In addition, after the voting the country would be stuck with a Constitution that was not democratic, said Abhisit, and with senators appointed by the junta.

 

Thanathorn, a businessman who recently turned politician and is highly favoured by progressive young people, said the coups that had been repeatedly staged throughout the country’s modern history were traps that had prevented the country from getting anywhere.

 

His Future Forward Party had therefore made it their main agenda to stop that cycle, he said, pledging to restore the people’s faith in the parliamentary system.

 

The party would also bring hope to the country, he said. 

 

“And our party proposes that we find a consensus and strengthen democracy,” Thanathorn added. “To do that, we need a supermajority in the Lower House and then we will amend the Constitution and put it to a referendum.”

 

 

Paiboon, who had served in the reform assembly under the coup-installed regime and had been supportive of the NCPO, however expressed scepticism about elections and implied they were not necessary in a democracy. 

 

Reflecting on political conflict and the violence that had broken out since the election of the Thaksin Shinawatra government in 2006, Paiboon questioned whether it was democracy. 

 

With elections, the people only had power for four seconds when in the polling booth, he said. But what came after was corrupt MPs abusing power while citing the people’s mandate, Paiboon added.

 

The current regime was disliked by some people, Paiboon said, but would help fix the problems in democracy.

 

He acknowledged that many people disapproved of the NCPO’s legacy, including the 250 senators who would be around for five years. But, said Paiboon, “[You] have to bear with it for five years and you’ll like it.”

 

In response, Chaturon said that democracy had a checks-and-balances system to deal with corruption. But the process had been blocked by the coups, he said.

 

 

Most importantly, the coups and their legacy had destroyed the democracy that had been developing for at least 15 years, during which voters learned to choose parties based on their policies, Chaturon said.

 

The latest coup would leave behind a legacy of the Constitution, reforms and the national strategy, all planned without public participation, he said.

 

“The national strategy will be a trap and it will continue to be a trap for the next 20 years,” Chaturon said. 

 

He proposed that the Constitution be amended. Only fair rules could solve the problems facing the country, including political conflict, he said.

 

Chaturon said it was important that pro-democracy parties made it a point to amend the Constitution. It should be a policy plank that is campaigned on before the election, he said. 

 

Subsequently both the national reform and the 20-year strategy, which could lead to politicians being punished if they refuse to obey them, should also be reviewed, he added.

 

 

Though Abhisit agreed that the Constitution was problematic and needed handling, he saw it as perilous to vigorously argue the issue before election day.

 

The public may become sceptical, wondering if the politicians wanted to do that for themselves and not for public interest, he said.

 

Paiboon, meanwhile, reminded everyone that it would not be easy to bring about any amendment to the Constitution. In addition to elected MPs, it also needed to be passed by one-third of the senators and one-fifth of the opposition force, he said.

 

Others, however, said that if the people backed an amendment, it could be achieved.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30347782

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-06-15

5 minutes ago, webfact said:

 

Abhisit, Chaturon and Thanathorn see junta’s legacy as barrier to genuine democracy.

And as well they should!

 

It is good to see the leading members of the Forces of Goodness all stating that the current charter is a bad thing and promising to change it.

 

(Hmm... it has to be said; does anyone trust Abhisit to keep his word?)

 

While it would be difficult to change the constitution due to all the provisions in it, a large mandate should take care of that effectively; it would be hard to argue that a constitution cannot be changed when it was written in private by a Junta who tossed out the previous one. Yes, there is hypocrisy among politicians, but that would be too much, even for Thailand. 

 

10 minutes ago, webfact said:

Most importantly, the coups and their legacy had destroyed the democracy that had been developing for at least 15 years, during which voters learned to choose parties based on their policies, Chaturon said.

Good on Chaturon to make this point.

 

Democracy is something that evolves over time to utilize the best practices and discard the ones that don't work; it is in essence a living organism. Each time there is a coup, it halts the process and allows the cheaters to pervert the process for their own ends. Get rid of the coups and democracy will evolve into a system that benefits all Thais, not just the people who are out to grab everything in their selfish, thieving, grubby hands.

 

13 minutes ago, webfact said:

Paiboon, who had served in the reform assembly under the coup-installed regime and had been supportive of the NCPO, however expressed scepticism about elections and implied they were not necessary in a democracy. 

What a weasel! And even worse, an appointed weasel who did not earn a place himself!

 

Elections are not the beginning and end of Democracy, but without them there is no Democracy at all. And the reason that elections have been stopped is because the PTB understand that if the Thai people are allowed to see a functioning democracy where power is transferred peacefully from one group to the next, they will expect that to continue to happen, leaving the power--corrupting, thieving Generals out in the cold.

 

The reason that Democracy has not developed in Thailand is because every time it seems to be working, there is a coup of some kind by the 'Yellows and Greens'.

 

'Yellows and Greens' are cheating cheaters who cheat all the time. They cheat when they wake up in the morning, they cheat over lunch and they cheat at supper time. They are cheating cheaters who cheat.

 

And they are the people who are holding Thailand back...

 

1 hour ago, webfact said:

said the coups that had been repeatedly staged throughout the country’s modern history were traps that had prevented the country from getting anywhere.

those coups are the instruments by which the real rulers of this place, they being Far from the election limelight, keep the place under their thumbs; circa 1931

The junta watering down anything I doubt it, if anything I can see them imposing more restrictions if anything

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Paiboon, who had served in the reform assembly under the coup-installed regime and had been supportive of the NCPO, however expressed scepticism about elections and implied they were not necessary in a democracy. 

well that is a new one

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Though Abhisit agreed that the Constitution was problematic and needed handling, he saw it as perilous to vigorously argue the issue before election day.

a man that knows the Junta well

9 hours ago, Eligius said:

I am impressed by Thanathorn. He is the first one to speak out in a big way about scrapping the bogus 'Constitution' of 2017.

Which is just why my 27 year old son and his friends so badly want to see a free and fair election containing an intelligent, modern civilian contestant. In their whole lives they have told, but never asked, what they should think. Unfortunately they still dont believe the extreme right/military/nationalistic elite will allow it to happen. 

32 minutes ago, Lungstib said:

Which is just why my 27 year old son and his friends so badly want to see a free and fair election containing an intelligent, modern civilian contestant. In their whole lives they have told, but never asked, what they should think. Unfortunately they still dont believe the extreme right/military/nationalistic elite will allow it to happen. 

Yes. The hope for Thailand lies with the young. Social media, the Internet, etc. (which the young love) are opening up the world. Thailand will not be able to hold back the tide of progress forever. People like Thanathorn represent the new, forward-thinking face of Thailand. It will take some time - but EVENTUALLY even Thailand will begin to grow up and the Thais will get the democracy that they should have had long, long ago.

 

But it will take a long time, I fear.

Paiboon only speak Prayut word.

He waste of oxygen.

I could be wrong but I think the younger Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit with his previous speeches intimidated the other older parties for not speaking out. It took the young courage to bring out the older campaigners who must have thought they'd better come forward or get overshadowed. Now Mr. PM we await your reply!

5 hours ago, webfact said:

THE JUNTA-SPONSORED charter, which imposes curbs on politicians, remains the prime target of big political parties who aim to replace it after the election

I applaud these political parties to amend the junta sponsored charter but I think the more effective target is to curb the excessive power of the military and stop future coups. What's good about any constitution if it can be torn up by coups. 

 

Perhaps a review of military appointments committee to prevent concentration of power in certain groups. Perhaps an inclusion in the charter that crisis should be resolved by unanimous decision of heads of certain branches or even outlaw coups as a violation of any royally endorsed article or law. Or even move the first division out of Bangkok. Important that the defence minister need to be a civilian. Democracy must be preserve and allow to flourish and all Thais should have a voice in mandating who they want as leaders. 

 

 

On another note, it is almost Game Over. Once the initiative to make opposing the Junta's law of making it a crime to not follow the Junta's iron fisted path for at least 20 years is voted on and farce approved, there can only be an uprising that would be able to throw them out. This could create a civil war, or a war of the people against the Junta. So SAD!

 

Chaturon, a former Pheu Thai education minister, said his party would, given the opportune time, also seek to change the national strategic plan and reforms imposed by the junta if they are in power.

Junta-appointed legislators today were set to vote on a law that would make it a crime for future elected leaders to not follow its development plans for the next 20 years.

They deferred the decision to another session.

Posts containing disallowed references to the government have been removed as well as the replies.  

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

And as well they should!

 

It is good to see the leading members of the Forces of Goodness all stating that the current charter is a bad thing and promising to change it.

 

(Hmm... it has to be said; does anyone trust Abhisit to keep his word?)

 

While it would be difficult to change the constitution due to all the provisions in it, a large mandate should take care of that effectively; it would be hard to argue that a constitution cannot be changed when it was written in private by a Junta who tossed out the previous one. Yes, there is hypocrisy among politicians, but that would be too much, even for Thailand. 

 

Good on Chaturon to make this point.

 

Democracy is something that evolves over time to utilize the best practices and discard the ones that don't work; it is in essence a living organism. Each time there is a coup, it halts the process and allows the cheaters to pervert the process for their own ends. Get rid of the coups and democracy will evolve into a system that benefits all Thais, not just the people who are out to grab everything in their selfish, thieving, grubby hands.

 

What a weasel! And even worse, an appointed weasel who did not earn a place himself!

 

Elections are not the beginning and end of Democracy, but without them there is no Democracy at all. And the reason that elections have been stopped is because the PTB understand that if the Thai people are allowed to see a functioning democracy where power is transferred peacefully from one group to the next, they will expect that to continue to happen, leaving the power--corrupting, thieving Generals out in the cold.

 

The reason that Democracy has not developed in Thailand is because every time it seems to be working, there is a coup of some kind by the 'Yellows and Greens'.

 

'Yellows and Greens' are cheating cheaters who cheat all the time. They cheat when they wake up in the morning, they cheat over lunch and they cheat at supper time. They are cheating cheaters who cheat.

 

And they are the people who are holding Thailand back...

 

 

"Forces of Goodness" - ?

 

Someone needs to read the recent political history a bit more!

 

If you think Abhisit might not keep his word, read up on PTP starting with the former finance minister!

 

Or is your post a satirical PTP propaganda spoof?

Edited June 15, 20188 yr by Baerboxer

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

even outlaw coups as a violation of any royally endorsed article or law.

Been there, done that:

• Organic Law, Article 113 of the Criminal Code states that anybody who commits treason by overthrowing the country's constitution faces the maximum penalty of death.

• 2007 Constitution, Part 13, “Right to Protect the Constitution,” Article 68 states: “No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.“

The Thai military is only the veneer over much deeper issues of national sovereignty. Solutions to reconciling the "dual polity" will still require coordination and cooperation beyond the representatives of the electorate (half of the polity).

18 hours ago, Cadbury said:

Abhisit must the Thai equivalent of "Blind Freddy". Almost everyone in the country knows what the PM and his unofficially recognised Junta Party is up to. In case he doesn't know, they are roaming the countryside throwing money about in huge quantities buying popularity and potential votes.

And Abhisit sits back like a submissive pathetic fool and asks if the PM would be nice enough to tell him what's going on.

It's very easy to sit in your armchair at home and sneer at other peoples efforts to bring sense and a democratic government to its rightful place in Thailand. Abhisit, despite your obvious distaste for the guy does know - of course he knows what is going on, but his hands are tied as all others are. Only a fool would fail to recognise that he wants an official statement declaring the Junta's intention.

 

And you, sir? Pray tell exactly what you would do to  achieve/force/agitate or steer, to bring democracy to Thailand?

 

As I said - easy to sneer...................

16 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

It's very easy to sit in your armchair at home and sneer at other peoples efforts to bring sense and a democratic government to its rightful place in Thailand. Abhisit, despite your obvious distaste for the guy does know - of course he knows what is going on, but his hands are tied as all others are. Only a fool would fail to recognise that he wants an official statement declaring the Junta's intention.

 

And you, sir? Pray tell exactly what you would do to  achieve/force/agitate or steer, to bring democracy to Thailand?

 

As I said - easy to sneer...................

I am allowed to sneer at whomever I choose; so long as I do it politely. In this case my choice is that two-faced treacherous Abhisit. 

Like me, you are also allowed to choose when and who to sneer at and I am flattered in this case that you have selected me.

36 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

peoples efforts to bring sense and a democratic government to its rightful place in Thailand.

Abhisit only misses his "rightful place" in Thailand as part of the elite ruling class.

He was quite satisfied with ordering along with his DPM Suthep to fire on protestors and bystanders in protests against his government, leaving more than 90 dead.

He was I'm sure quite grateful to the junta that banned the only major opposition party PTP that would have beaten Abhisit's Democrats in the election that Abhisit won.

He is the kit that protests to the Tiger for his rightful share to the bounty of unchallenged power.

8 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Abhisit only misses his "rightful place" in Thailand as part of the elite ruling class.

He was quite satisfied with ordering along with his DPM Suthep to fire on protestors and bystanders in protests against his government, leaving more than 90 dead.

He was I'm sure quite grateful to the junta that banned the only major opposition party PTP that would have beaten Abhisit's Democrats in the election that Abhisit won.

He is the kit that protests to the Tiger for his rightful share to the bounty of unchallenged power.

Yes, Abhisit is a traitor to the Thai people. The junta might not have had the opportunity to seize power as easily as they did if Abhisit had supported the election which Yingluck rightfully and sensibly called for.

 

The state we are in today is in large measure down to Abhisit and his ilk.

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Been there, done that:

• Organic Law, Article 113 of the Criminal Code states that anybody who commits treason by overthrowing the country's constitution faces the maximum penalty of death.

 

 

• 2007 Constitution, Part 13, “Right to Protect the Constitution,” Article 68 states: “No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.“

The Thai military is only the veneer over much deeper issues of national sovereignty. Solutions to reconciling the "dual polity" will still require coordination and cooperation beyond the representatives of the electorate (half of the polity).

I was suggesting something like an edict endorsed by the highest order in the country along the line of 112. Written in then charter has been thrashed every time coup is staged. 

On 6/14/2018 at 11:25 PM, webfact said:

Paiboon, who had served in the reform assembly under the coup-installed regime and had been supportive of the NCPO, however expressed scepticism about elections and implied they were not necessary in a democracy. 

You truly couldnt make this up... 

On 6/14/2018 at 11:25 PM, webfact said:

Reflecting on political conflict and the violence that had broken out since the election of the Thaksin Shinawatra government in 2006, Paiboon questioned whether it was democracy. 

 

With elections, the people only had power for four seconds when in the polling booth, he said. But what came after was corrupt MPs abusing power while citing the people’s mandate, Paiboon added.

So then you put forward an alternative policy platform, publicise and point out the failings of those elected officials, appeal to the public that you have a better alternative, and 'throw the bums out'.. 

 

Thats how it works !! 

 

Quote

 

The current regime was disliked by some people, Paiboon said, but would help fix the problems in democracy.

 

He acknowledged that many people disapproved of the NCPO’s legacy, including the 250 senators who would be around for five years. But, said Paiboon, “[You] have to bear with it for five years and you’ll like it.”

 

 

Again, just yet more emphasis that they truly dont understand how democratic systems function.. If you dont have a mandate from  the population, your imposition of your ideas isnt acceptable.