Are You A Sexpat Or Do You Ride The Backwards Morality Train?

[webfact]

Attack shuts major Libyan oil ports, slashing production

By Ayman al-Warfalli and Ahmad Ghaddar

 

FILE PHOTO: Libya's eastern-based commander Khalifa Haftar attends General Security conference, in Benghazi, Libya, October 14, 2017. REUTERS/Esam Omran Al-Fetori/File Photo

 

BENGHAZI, Libya/LONDON (Reuters) - The major Libyan oil ports of Ras Lanuf and Es Sider were closed and evacuated on Thursday after armed brigades opposed to the powerful eastern commander Khalifa Haftar stormed them, causing a production loss of 240,000 barrels per day (bpd).

 

At least one storage tank at Ras Lanuf terminal was set alight following the early morning attack, an engineer told Reuters. Libya's National Oil Corporation (NOC) declared force majeure on loadings from both terminals.

 

The clashes between forces loyal to Haftar's Libyan National Army (LNA) and rival armed groups continued throughout the day south of Ras Lanuf, where the LNA was targeting its opponents with air strikes, local sources said.

 

Military sources said the LNA had withdrawn from both ports.

 

The LNA took control of Es Sider and Ras Lanuf along with other oil ports in Libya's oil crescent in 2016, allowing them to reopen after a long blockade and significantly lifting Libya's oil production.

 

More than half the storage tanks at both terminals were badly damaged in previous fighting and have yet to be repaired, though there have been regular loadings from Es Sider.

 

Libya's National Oil Corporation (NOC) said it had evacuated all staff from the two terminals "as a precautionary measure." The immediate production loss was around 240,000 bpd and the entry of a tanker due at Es Sider on Thursday was postponed, it said.

 

NOC Chairman Mustafa Sanalla said the output loss was expected to rise to 400,000 bpd if the shutdown continued, calling it a "national disaster" for oil-dependent Libya.

 

A military source said the three-pronged attack was launched by the Benghazi Defence Brigades (BDB), a group that has previously tried to take the oil crescent and advance on Benghazi, which has been fully controlled by Haftar since late last year.

 

The NOC blamed Ibrahim Jathran, who headed an armed group that blockaded oil crescent terminals for three years before being forced out by the LNA, and who appeared in a video posted on social media on Thursday announcing the start of a campaign.

 

"We announce the preparation of our ground forces and supporting forces in the oil region, and our objective is to overturn the injustice for our people over the past two years," he said, standing in a camouflage jacket in an unidentified desert area.

 

"The past two years have been catastrophic for people in the oil crescent because of the presence of the system of injustice which is the other face of terrorism and extremism."

 

BILLIONS LOST

The NOC says Jathran's previous blockades cost Libya tens of billions of dollars in lost revenue. He is sought by judicial authorities in Tripoli for the blockades and attempts to export oil independently.

 

Repeated previous attempts by the LNA's opponents to retake the oil crescent have failed, and it is unclear how much military and local, tribal support Jathran or BDB forces currently have.

 

However, the LNA, which is the dominant force in eastern Libya and rejects an internationally recognised government in the capital, Tripoli, stirred some resentment with arrests when it moved into the oil crescent in 2016, and has recently been stretched thin.

 

Since last month it has been waging a campaign to take control of Derna, the last city in the east to elude its control.

 

France, which hosted an international summit last month to set a roadmap for elections in Libya, said it "condemned with the utmost firmness the offensive conducted today by extremist elements in the oil crescent".

 

Thursday's clashes were not affecting any oilfields, the military source said. The LNA had at least five men killed and around six wounded, he said.

 

A local resident said he had heard the sound of heavy clashes and air strikes at dawn and had seen a large fire at the Ras Lanuf tank farm.

 

Crude exports from Ras Lanuf stood at 110,000 bpd in May, while exports from Es Sider were around 300,000 bpd, according to oil analytics company Vortexa.

 

The Minerva Lisa oil tanker, which was due to arrive at Es Sider to load a crude cargo on Thursday, was advised to stay outside the port, a source familiar with the matter said.

 

The tanker, chartered by trader Petraco, was seen turning away from the port on Thursday morning without loading, according to Reuters ship tracking.

 

A second tanker, the Seascout, is expected to arrive at the port on June 18.

 

Libya's oil production recovered last year to just over 1 million bpd and has been mostly stable, though it remains vulnerable to shutdowns and blockades at oil facilities.

 

National output is still well under the more than 1.6 million bpd Libya was producing before a 2011 uprising led to political fragmentation and armed conflict.

 

(Reporting by Ayman al-Warfalli, Ahmad Ghaddar, Aidan Lewis and John Irish; Writing by Aidan Lewis; Editing by Mark Potter, David Evans and Diane Craft)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-15

[marko kok prong]

Another great legacy of Cameron ,Sarkozy,and Obama,the country is an utter shambles,2 governments,various well manned and heavily armed miltia's,probably the world capitol of people smuggling,slavery,arms smuggling ect ect  another "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED'

[nahkit]

3 hours ago, marko kok prong said:

Another great legacy of Cameron ,Sarkozy,and Obama,the country is an utter shambles,2 governments,various well manned and heavily armed miltia's,probably the world capitol of people smuggling,slavery,arms smuggling ect ect  another "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED'

So the Libyan people bear no responsibility for what's happening then?

[Andaman Al]

11 minutes ago, nahkit said:

So the Libyan people bear no responsibility for what's happening then?

Can you explain what responsibility should be apportioned to the Libyan people? Their sovereign territory was invaded, their life styles destroyed, their health system and education system taken away, their relatively high per capita earnings the population enjoyed were taken away. Law, order and their Government systems were taken away all by force and with the use of armed terrorist groups and you want them to bear responsibility? All this because their 'leader' was going to charge and accept currencies other than the USD for his country's oil. Yup, seems like Mr & Mrs Mohammed Al Smith's fault to me ?

[Khun Jean]

"We came, we saw, he died! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha" screamed the monster in joy.

 

[BuaBS]

28 minutes ago, Khun Jean said:

"We came, we saw, he died! Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha" screamed the monster in joy.

 

And in a recent interview , she says she doesn't regret it.

Thank Trump , she didn't win .... oops , he's doing the same now in Yemen.

[Morch]

 

@Andaman Al

 

Without taking away blame from Western parties, at which point can a local population be held accountable for taking charge (or failing to) of its own fate?

 

Going by the views of some on this forum - never. There's no sell-by date for "colonialism", "imperialism" and such. They serve as an everlasting free pass.

 

Maybe expecting something of the sort only 7 years into the mess is too "early". But then again, most of the people engaged in the fighting are Libyans (well, leaders are, anyway). To the extent that there's such a thing as a Libyan identity, rather than various tribes and clans, when is higher sentiment expected to kick in?

 

[Andaman Al]

50 minutes ago, Morch said:

Without taking away blame from Western parties, at which point can a local population be held accountable for taking charge (or failing to) of its own fate?

I guess we can blame the North Korean Peasants then that every time they voice a political faux pas them and three generations of their entire families are sent to be imprisoned for life in the Gulags.

 

We meddle in others governments then you want to apportion blame to the local population for not agreeing and rising up. Now when was the last time that happened???? Oh yes, Iran, when we deposed the democratic Government (a role model in the Middle East) and put the Shah on the throne. Sure enough the people did take responsibility, it led to the revolution. That was a quagmire of crapola that WE created. Now you want the Libyan's to follow suit? The Libyans as a people were an ok bunch. They were hospitable and just wanted to live their lives as peacefully as they were. They actually loved Ghaddafi. What do we want now? We want them to rise up as another extremist hotbed of terrorism and depose the current Government that were placed there by US. We go and create  chaos and mayhem wherever we want for one reason...Oil. The sooner the geeks come up with cold fusion the better. What will we fight about then?.........Oh, after todays announcements, maybe trade.

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I guess we can blame the North Korean Peasants then that every time they voice a political faux pas them and three generations of their entire families are sent to be imprisoned for life in the Gulags.

 

We meddle in others governments then you want to apportion blame to the local population for not agreeing and rising up. Now when was the last time that happened???? Oh yes, Iran, when we deposed the democratic Government (a role model in the Middle East) and put the Shah on the throne. Sure enough the people did take responsibility, it led to the revolution. That was a quagmire of crapola that WE created. Now you want the Libyan's to follow suit? The Libyans as a people were an ok bunch. They were hospitable and just wanted to live their lives as peacefully as they were. They actually loved Ghaddafi. What do we want now? We want them to rise up as another extremist hotbed of terrorism and depose the current Government that were placed there by US. We go and create  chaos and mayhem wherever we want for one reason...Oil. The sooner the geeks come up with cold fusion the better. What will we fight about then?.........Oh, after todays announcements, maybe trade.

 

Ah, that royal "we" again. Count me out, please. Not into being pressed into one of them dreamed up collective guilt trips. Thanks.

 

And please, don't twist my words. I didn't say anything in favor of revolutions. I didn't say anything about denying all blame. I'm making another point, which you dodge - at which point do people become responsible for taking charge of their own fate? Not suggesting that I have a definitive answer on that, just not buying into the whole self-stagflation act. 

 

Anything of substance to offer on that? How did things work out for Western countries, then?

 

 

Edit - You say that the Libyans actually loved Ghaddafi. How does being sodomized with a bayonet fit into this?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Morch

[Sir Dude]

There is a good lesson to be learned here regarding Libya and Iraq for all these silly liberal fools in the EU and US...which is, think very carefully about toppling dictators in countries that have no idea about, or are completely not compatible with, your lefty holier than thou thinking. It simply doesn't work, as they are not up for democracy and would rather a clerical theocracy instead. You are better off leaving them to their own devises, isolating them and waving the economic stick at them instead, as they haven't socially evolved enough to even contemplate western society, let alone any ridiculous lefty nonsense. 

 

Western governments should try to remember that everything about us is "haram" in their eyes...and you/me would be first ones to be put up against the wall if they had the chance.

[observer90210]

One thing is almost for sure, oil prices will soar again on the international markets....I'd better Stop posting rubbish here, rush off and fill up all the moped's gas tank !!!

[Andaman Al]

54 minutes ago, Morch said:

Edit - You say that the Libyans actually loved Ghaddafi. How does being sodomized with a bayonet fit into this?

Yes, and you think that was a Libyan or a weaponized (by the west) terrorist who was sent in to do the dirty work. The west armed Al Qaida,  armed any terrorist wanting to go in and rape and pillage and share in the spoils of any subsequent victory. There are bad asses in every country willing to take advantage of a situation involving anarchy. I am quite sure there are people in the US would do the same to Clinton or Trump given the platform. After all when our 'civilization' gets to the point where a law enforcement official can take a baby off a mother and say "what child, -  you won't see your child again" then what's a bayonet up the ass now and again.

 

 

1 hour ago, Morch said:

I didn't say anything about denying all blame. I'm making another point, which you dodge - at which point do people become responsible for taking charge of their own fate?

I don't know. I would take responsibility straight away and as a result would probably be one of the first in the compost heap in the Gulag. Those of a more sensible disposition will not wish to end up in that compost heap and do anything to avoid retribution from the people in power. Fear is a powerful thing (and Trump likes what he sees in Kim Jong and North Korea) and terrible terrible crimes against humanity have been perpetrated across the Middle East during the "Arab Spring", and I am sure the normal Libyan man who wants to see his child grow, marry and have kids will do nothing that will endanger themselves. The Libyan people are not responsible for the current situation  they are the victims and I doubt they will take action anytime soon to change the status quo and if they do it will be very ugly once again.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Yes, and you think that was a Libyan or a weaponized (by the west) terrorist who was sent in to do the dirty work. The west armed Al Qaida,  armed any terrorist wanting to go in and rape and pillage and share in the spoils of any subsequent victory. There are bad asses in every country willing to take advantage of a situation involving anarchy. I am quite sure there are people in the US would do the same to Clinton or Trump given the platform. After all when our 'civilization' gets to the point where a law enforcement official can take a baby off a mother and say "what child, -  you won't see your child again" then what's a bayonet up the ass now and again.

 

 

I don't know. I would take responsibility straight away and as a result would probably be one of the first in the compost heap in the Gulag. Those of a more sensible disposition will not wish to end up in that compost heap and do anything to avoid retribution from the people in power. Fear is a powerful thing (and Trump likes what he sees in Kim Jong and North Korea) and terrible terrible crimes against humanity have been perpetrated across the Middle East during the "Arab Spring", and I am sure the normal Libyan man who wants to see his child grow, marry and have kids will do nothing that will endanger themselves. The Libyan people are not responsible for the current situation  they are the victims and I doubt they will take action anytime soon to change the status quo and if they do it will be very ugly once again.

 

While it's all very well alleging things, I somehow doubt you could substantiate the guy's anal meeting with a bayonet being brought about by a foreigner. Same goes for a general, genuine sentiment of love. The thing about "imported" revolutions and such, is that they require local support. Where there is none, or where's not enough negative sentiment, I don't think they go anywhere.

 

And "I don't know" is a fair enough answer. I'm not laying it all at the Libyans' feet. Don't know if post-Qaddafi there's even much of a Libyan identity to speak of. Not so much a question of them being responsible for the current situation (although some of them certainly are - specifically, warring parties and warlords), even. Let's say its "acceptable" for a country, a people, to go through a period of being "shell socked" after a Dear Leader leaves the stage and mayhem ensuing. Fine. Question is, at which point focusing on blaming others for the state things becomes a habit, and an excuse for people not picking themselves up and forging their own destiny. IMO, that's an issue not limited to Libya. I fail to see how the endless blame games promote the interests and well-being of people living in such countries. If anything, it's just a self-defeating approach. 

 

[nahkit]

18 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Can you explain what responsibility should be apportioned to the Libyan people? Their sovereign territory was invaded, their life styles destroyed, their health system and education system taken away, their relatively high per capita earnings the population enjoyed were taken away. Law, order and their Government systems were taken away all by force and with the use of armed terrorist groups and you want them to bear responsibility? All this because their 'leader' was going to charge and accept currencies other than the USD for his country's oil. Yup, seems like Mr & Mrs Mohammed Al Smith's fault to me ?

Ok I'll try.

 

The Arab spring uprising started in Tunisia, where the Tunisian people rose up against their government.

 

Smaller protests occurred in Algeria, Jordan and Oman but they were quickly put down.

 

This was followed by a similar uprising in Egypt where Egyptian people rose up against their government.

 

Other countries suffered unrest, including Yemen (where the government was overthrown)  Sudan, Iraq and Bahrain

 

The Libyan people followed suit and rose up against their government.

 

Have you spotted a pattern yet, the one where citizens of the country said they'd had enough of their own governments?

 

In the case of Libya, the people of Benghazi absolutely hated Ghaddaffi and the feeling was mutual, he made sure that very little of the oil money was spent on that area and the Derna region had been a no-go area for many years prior to the Arab spring.

 

After Ghaddaffi was removed, the Libyan people held their first ever free and fair elections in July 2012. A 200 member congress was elected, their remit was to elect a prime minister and organise a parliamentary election. They were also supposed to draft a constitution. They were given 18 months to do this and received a salary and a free car. Members of this congress still retained their salaries from their previous employment plus all benefits. After 18 months, they decided they hadn't had enough time and extended their term of office along with voting themselves salary increases.

 

Meanwhile fighting went on between various factions over who controlled what area, each faction was split along tribal loyalties. The only thing these militias were interested in was how much power they could grab for themselves which in turn meant how much money they could steal.

 

So, given a chance to have democracy, the Libyan people chose to waste it on feathering their own nests (the 200 free-loaders in congress) and fighting with anyone who wasn't from their tribal alliance (militias). 

 

When things got back to semi-normal in 2012, there had been considerable damage done to the oil industry infrastructure, including the oil metering system at the port which measured how much oil was being loaded onto tankers.

 

The first thing the Libyan company that I worked for did was to repair the metering system, oops, my mistake, no, the first thing they did was to order 4 top of the line spec. Audis for top management, 30 VW Passats for middle managers and 70 VW busses that never actually made an appearence at the company (probably gifts to various militia).

 

Two years later the metering system still hadn't been repaired and when questions were asked in congress the answer was that they were using 'traditional methods' to measure how much oil was being loaded. (One for you, one for me).

 

In the IT department where I worked, our manager was replaced with a man who had never worked in IT in his life, his main qualification was that he was from Zintan and the Zintani brigade controlled the area where the company was located.

 

So the cronyism and tribal fighting that had plagued Libya since 2012 are all down to America and Europe, nothing to do with the Libyan people right?

 

The two people the OP is about, Hafter and Jathran, where are they from? Europe? America?

 

Jathran is nothing but a chancer who took over an oil installation by force.

 

As for your comments about their lifestyle, health system, education system and relatively high salaries being taken away, sorry, you are absolutely clueless.

 

Under Ghaddaffi, there was a law limiting how much a local employee could earn. I had people working for me with university degrees who were earning 240 dinars a month.  That was the equivalent of less than $200 on the black market. You call that relatively high? Each year employees went through a performance review, for an employee who received a perfect review the company was allowed to award them an extra 7 dinars a month. After Ghaddaffi, the Libyans at the company I worked for awarded themselves 400% pay rises.

 

The education system was so over-stretched that they used to share schools in Tripoli, with one set of pupils going in the morning and others going in the afternoon.

 

Government hospitals were awful places, I know this from first-hand experience following a car accident where my wife was on a metal spring bed (no mattress) waiting for treatment, there was no drinkable water available and the toilets had 3" of 'liquid' on the floor with faeces floating in it.

 

My post is based on the 23 years I worked and lived there.

[nahkit]

15 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

They actually loved Ghaddafi.

????

[elwood]

47 minutes ago, nahkit said:

Ok I'll try.

 

The Arab spring uprising started in Tunisia, where the Tunisian people rose up against their government.

 

Smaller protests occurred in Algeria, Jordan and Oman but they were quickly put down.

 

This was followed by a similar uprising in Egypt where Egyptian people rose up against their government.

 

Other countries suffered unrest, including Yemen (where the government was overthrown)  Sudan, Iraq and Bahrain

 

The Libyan people followed suit and rose up against their government.

 

Have you spotted a pattern yet, the one where citizens of the country said they'd had enough of their own governments?

 

In the case of Libya, the people of Benghazi absolutely hated Ghaddaffi and the feeling was mutual, he made sure that very little of the oil money was spent on that area and the Derna region had been a no-go area for many years prior to the Arab spring.

 

After Ghaddaffi was removed, the Libyan people held their first ever free and fair elections in July 2012. A 200 member congress was elected, their remit was to elect a prime minister and organise a parliamentary election. They were also supposed to draft a constitution. They were given 18 months to do this and received a salary and a free car. Members of this congress still retained their salaries from their previous employment plus all benefits. After 18 months, they decided they hadn't had enough time and extended their term of office along with voting themselves salary increases.

 

Meanwhile fighting went on between various factions over who controlled what area, each faction was split along tribal loyalties. The only thing these militias were interested in was how much power they could grab for themselves which in turn meant how much money they could steal.

 

So, given a chance to have democracy, the Libyan people chose to waste it on feathering their own nests (the 200 free-loaders in congress) and fighting with anyone who wasn't from their tribal alliance (militias). 

 

When things got back to semi-normal in 2012, there had been considerable damage done to the oil industry infrastructure, including the oil metering system at the port which measured how much oil was being loaded onto tankers.

 

The first thing the Libyan company that I worked for did was to repair the metering system, oops, my mistake, no, the first thing they did was to order 4 top of the line spec. Audis for top management, 30 VW Passats for middle managers and 70 VW busses that never actually made an appearence at the company (probably gifts to various militia).

 

Two years later the metering system still hadn't been repaired and when questions were asked in congress the answer was that they were using 'traditional methods' to measure how much oil was being loaded. (One for you, one for me).

 

In the IT department where I worked, our manager was replaced with a man who had never worked in IT in his life, his main qualification was that he was from Zintan and the Zintani brigade controlled the area where the company was located.

 

So the cronyism and tribal fighting that had plagued Libya since 2012 are all down to America and Europe, nothing to do with the Libyan people right?

 

The two people the OP is about, Hafter and Jathran, where are they from? Europe? America?

 

Jathran is nothing but a chancer who took over an oil installation by force.

 

As for your comments about their lifestyle, health system, education system and relatively high salaries being taken away, sorry, you are absolutely clueless.

 

Under Ghaddaffi, there was a law limiting how much a local employee could earn. I had people working for me with university degrees who were earning 240 dinars a month.  That was the equivalent of less than $200 on the black market. You call that relatively high? Each year employees went through a performance review, for an employee who received a perfect review the company was allowed to award them an extra 7 dinars a month. After Ghaddaffi, the Libyans at the company I worked for awarded themselves 400% pay rises.

 

The education system was so over-stretched that they used to share schools in Tripoli, with one set of pupils going in the morning and others going in the afternoon.

 

Government hospitals were awful places, I know this from first-hand experience following a car accident where my wife was on a metal spring bed (no mattress) waiting for treatment, there was no drinkable water available and the toilets had 3" of 'liquid' on the floor with faeces floating in it.

 

My post is based on the 23 years I worked and lived there.

I was there 15 years in the oil business, and this is a fine post, especially regarding the truth about work, education etc. No doubt you were like me and other expats; returning from each field break with bags full of basic items that the Libyans asked us to bring, as they were unavailable in Libya, except to the elite Gaddafi supporters.

 

I have been from Tobruk to Zawia, spent 3 years in Benghazi, and the small percentage of   Gaddafi lovers I encountered were almost exclusively from Sirte, his home base. He was truly hated, but westerners conveniently forget his secret police, murder squads, and thousands of people "disappearing" during his rule.