65 directors of centres for the destitute transferred

[mok199]

Thailand with 76 provinces and 100" of sub district, I cant even imagine how many people this govt employs.in my opinion corruption will never end,it will go futher ungerground adapt and get even harder to  route out.it will take a break then reappear and more will be punnished..Thailand must learn to add corruption into each budget  in order to ensure each meets target...Thailand was paradise once ,  thais will not change.,defiant,lawless and entitled.period..

Edited June 17, 2018 by mok199
s

[George Bowman]

I think our first condo in Bangkok had three locks on the door. Our house in Bangkok is in a gated village, plus it is surrounded by a sturdy fence with metal spikes at the top. Our place upcountry initially just had the usual cement/wood fence without the metal spikes as I was trying to avoid the prison look. But, Somchai climbed over and took the fishing poles under the house. So up went the metal spikes. Plus now, we have cameras. Why?

 

From the get go, my Thai wife has said that a lot of Thai people will steal...

 

Edited June 17, 2018 by missoura

[Redline]

Prison!  Although it seems not many care about the poor here

[Lucky mike]

Great opportunity for government to show how they treat corruption !

[Oziex1]

These thieves are the worst or are they? The disinterest by the government and the well off, creates the destitute.

[candide]

4 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

I believe there are 72 office, so 65 out of 72 are suspect. It is my belief that most of these programs were inspired not by the desire to help poor people but to gain votes and open a path to divert government funds to officials. Look at the Eduction Ministry, Office of Buddhism, and others to see how the system works.

Actually, what is highly suspect is that there are seven offices that don't seem to be corrupt....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

What would Jesus or Buddha have said about government officials stealing money/aid destined for their poorest, most needy citizens?  On this kind of an issue, I don't think East vs West cultural norms provide any excuse.

 

[KiwiKiwi]

2 hours ago, missoura said:

I think our first condo in Bangkok had three locks on the door. Our house in Bangkok is in a gated village, plus it is surrounded by a sturdy fence with metal spikes at the top. Our place upcountry initially just had the usual cement/wood fence without the metal spikes as I was trying to avoid the prison look. But, Somchai climbed over and took the fishing poles under the house. So up went the metal spikes. Plus now, we have cameras. Why?

 

From the get go, my Thai wife has said that a lot of Thai people will steal...

 

And of course she's right, as anyone who is not a politically correct drone will agree. We had an unfortunate incident about 10 years ago, which left me in hospital at the hands of 3 of the local ruffians. The next month saw a concrete wall going up (without spikes - they aren't needed) and CCTV going in. On the outside of the wall is a small painting which appeals to the superstitious Thai, and a (carefully cultivated) local reputation, which also appeals to the superstitious Thai.

 

There have been no subsequent problems, even when my wife left the doors and windows visibly unlocked when we went shopping. As she now says, Thais in our village wouldn't dream of doing anything bad where we are concerned. Job done, psychology can be very useful, as can using it carefully,

 

Edited June 17, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[KiwiKiwi]

2 hours ago, mok199 said:

Thailand with 76 provinces and 100" of sub district, I cant even imagine how many people this govt employs.in my opinion corruption will never end,it will go futher ungerground adapt and get even harder to  route out.it will take a break then reappear and more will be punnished..Thailand must learn to add corruption into each budget  in order to ensure each meets target...Thailand was paradise once ,  thais will not change.,defiant,lawless and entitled.period..

 

I think many provinces do already. I was talking to a Thai a few years ago, who was jointly responsible for busgetting for a project (in Rayong I think). 40% had been allowed for tea money in the first draft which my acquanitance and his colleagues reduced to 35% because '40% was just going too far'.

 

Nowadays, it's estimated that 40% of the Thai budget is siphoned off into the pockets of corrupt officials. 40%!! It beggars belief, though I'm sure Thailand is not alone; I look at the African states and the USA with it's huge lobbying revenues. The one thing I applauded about the Donald was when he said he would 'drain the swamp'.

 

But of course he won't.

 

[CanuckThai]

It's almost impossible to stop.  High positions are bought, period.  If a person buys a simple government position for half a millionb, they need an eventual return, when they reach reimbursement status.  Someone buying a director position and above, has potentially millions invested, and expect a huge return.  There is no curing this....  Only the blatantly obvious or current undesirables will be weeded out.

[KiwiKiwi]

9 minutes ago, CanuckThai said:

It's almost impossible to stop.  High positions are bought, period.  If a person buys a simple government position for half a millionb, they need an eventual return, when they reach reimbursement status.  Someone buying a director position and above, has potentially millions invested, and expect a huge return.  There is no curing this....  Only the blatantly obvious or current undesirables will be weeded out.

 

Gloomy but it fits perfectly with my own assessment of Thailand. Still, nice to have it confirmed.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[DrTuner]

Oh, somebody really got axed from government. First for everything. Keep it up and get rid of all of the rest of them.

[Vacuum]

4 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

And they cheat...……...

.....and lie.

 

[upu2]

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Based on everything that we know of this scandal, these people are truly the scum of the Earth.

 

What kind of Buddhist, or even what kind of human being, steals from the neediest and most destitute among us? They are the epitome of evil.

 

What is a just punishment for them? Honestly, I do not think there is one, but a stopgap measure would be to take their savings, pension, cars, houses and every one of their assets and give them to the poor. Further, those scum who were 'directors' should be made to live on the pittance that was given to the neediest; hopefully good and decent Thai people would spit on them as they went past.

 

People who steal from the destitute/needy/handicapped are the second lowest form of life on the planet. The lowest are people who were given positions of trust in a government to help the destitute and instead lined their own pockets.

 

Scum. Pure scum.

 

It is good these things in Thailand are being brought to the public's attention but let me ask a question. How many people in the world are followers of whatever religion / philosophy they say they follow? I would say very few indeed. Going to a temple does not make you a Buddhist any more than going to a church makes you a Christian. It is the way you act and perform in every day situations that will define you as to what you are. Lip service does nothing.

Followers of all faiths around the world are guilty of this

[scorecard]

24 minutes ago, CanuckThai said:

It's almost impossible to stop.  High positions are bought, period.  If a person buys a simple government position for half a millionb, they need an eventual return, when they reach reimbursement status.  Someone buying a director position and above, has potentially millions invested, and expect a huge return.  There is no curing this....  Only the blatantly obvious or current undesirables will be weeded out.

 

Yes buying promotions seems to be the norm in many cases and in many ministries.

 

To say 'you can't stop it' is defeatist and not really an acceptable answer.

 

Perhaps all government promotions should be decided using a completely different method and decided by a rotating public based committee, with their discussions available to the public and by an annual analysis of the committee decisions to look for consistency of at least the following factors:

 

- The promotion was give to the candidate who has openly displayed, in past actions and situations the strongest impressive capabilities and insights in regard to the vacancy at hand.

 

- The promotion was given to the candidate with the most impressive track record for the last 4 years and 'impressive' means added high additional value to the work of the department.

 

- There is absolutely no evidence at all that the promotion was given on the basis of oldest member of the team or longest serving member of the team.

 

Yes that's all a bit of a dream, however IMHO until there is massive change to the promotion system / process then yes it will be very difficult to stop however much harsher penalties including mandatory jail for long periods, mandatory confiscation of all assets (and wives / husbands assets), mandatory immediate dismissal with no pension of other benefits, mandatory banning of ever working again in any form of government position and lifetime total ban from any activity, speech, comment, association with politics or politicians, punishable by serious jail time, and mandatory public shaming would help. 

 

 

[KiwiKiwi]

23 minutes ago, upu2 said:

It is good these things in Thailand are being brought to the public's attention but let me ask a question. How many people in the world are followers of whatever religion / philosophy they say they follow? I would say very few indeed. Going to a temple does not make you a Buddhist any more than going to a church makes you a Christian. It is the way you act and perform in every day situations that will define you as to what you are. Lip service does nothing.

Followers of all faiths around the world are guilty of this

And lip service is exactly what it is. Just enough to enable them to feel all holy and stuff while at the temple/church/whatever, but not enoughto make an impact on their behaviour of lying, cheating and stealing.

 

People all over the world do this, being a God-botherer helps them to feel good about themselves. Good evolutionary reasons why this should be so.

Edited June 17, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[Aupee]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Very well said...

It may be well said but no amount of cultural awareness and quoting of you cannot  apply western standards,  will make it humanly acceptable behaviour in any Religion I have heard of in this world greed is greed and sloth is sloth

[scorecard]

11 minutes ago, upu2 said:

It is good these things in Thailand are being brought to the public's attention but let me ask a question. How many people in the world are followers of whatever religion / philosophy they say they follow? I would say very few indeed. Going to a temple does not make you a Buddhist any more than going to a church makes you a Christian. It is the way you act and perform in every day situations that will define you as to what you are. Lip service does nothing.

Followers of all faiths around the world are guilty of this

 

My Thai adult son talks about this, he and his Thai wife now rarely go to the temple, because they have lost faith and they say many other Thais now don't go at all or go only rarely, same reason - they have also lost faith. Going to monks for lottery ticket numbers is one small example from my son.

 

I have one more example, a 22 year bachelor student in many of my courses. He and his whole family had been told by a monk they all needed to legally change their name and surname every 6 months, plus change their mobile phone no. and their e.mail address and social media usernames every 6 months or the whole family would have a serious accident and all be killed.

 

Result: just after the first six months he went to all his professors and the uni admin. with an official document (change of name certificate) giving his just very recently changed new name and asked for his professors and the admin. to change his name in the records and go back and change his name in all past records covering about 3 past years.

 

This was all referred to the uni. director who is quite some expert about buddhist principles and processes etc., the director gave a written notice to all; the student, professors and admin. staff. This matter has no connection or place or validity in terms of buddhist values or principles of process, do not change his records.

 

So the young man immediately left and enrolled at another university, then he asked his old uni for a transcript of his old grades. He took this to his new uni and asked them to give him credits for past courses but in his new name. The new uni. refused.

 

Plus his family, parents, the student and I think maybe 2 more kids never travelled together, by car, bus, or whatever. 

 

Sad.

 

 

[KiwiKiwi]

8 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

My Thai adult son talks about this, he and his Thai wife now rarely go to the temple, because they have lost faith and they say many other Thais now don't go at all or go only rarely, same reason - they have also lost faith. Going to monks for lottery ticket numbers is one small example from my son.

 

I have one more example, a 22 year bachelor student in many of my courses. He and his whole family had been told by a monk they all needed to legally change their name and surname every 6 months, plus change their mobile phone no. and their e.mail address and social media usernames every 6 months or the whole family would have a serious accident and all be killed.

 

Result: just after the first six months he went to all his professors and the uni admin. with an official document (change of name certificate) giving his just very recently changed new name and asked for his professors and the admin. to change his name in the records and go back and change his name in all past records covering about 3 past years.

 

This was all referred to the uni. director who is quite some expert about buddhist principles and processes etc., the director gave a written notice to all; the student, professors and admin. staff. This matter has no connection or place or validity in terms of buddhist values or principles of process, do not change his records.

 

So the young man immediately left and enrolled at another university, then he asked his old uni for a transcript of his old grades. He took this to his new uni and asked them to give him credits for past courses but in his new name. The new uni. refused.

 

Plus his family, parents, the student and I think maybe 2 more kids never travelled together, by car, bus, or whatever. 

 

Sad.

 

 

 

It is, though perhaps not as sad as this fraud, perpetrated among the people, being listed as one of the 3 pillars of Thai life. The reality is (as we have recently had confirmed in the newspapers), that buddhist monks are just as dishonest and venal as any other Thai, and I can tell you without any doubts whatsoever, that the Christian priests are exactly the same. They beg from, steal from and otherwise solicit money and goods from Thais in exchange for blessings. Have you carefully watched the monks as they deliver the blessings? I have and the impression I have is that it is 100% bogus, a mere mummery in exchange for money or food. It is meaningless and without merit in my opinion. But the landed gentry love it and make up their own little social climbing structures inside of it so they can feel worthwhile. .

 

It's a sham, organised and funded by Himself, for the benefit of Himself. One of many.

Edited June 17, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[CanuckThai]

46 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Yes buying promotions seems to be the norm in many cases and in many ministries.

 

To say 'you can't stop it' is defeatist and not really an acceptable answer.

 

Perhaps all government promotions should be decided using a completely different method and decided by a rotating public based committee, with their discussions available to the public and by an annual analysis of the committee decisions to look for consistency of at least the following factors:

 

- The promotion was give to the candidate who has openly displayed, in past actions and situations the strongest impressive capabilities and insights in regard to the vacancy at hand.

 

- The promotion was given to the candidate with the most impressive track record for the last 4 years and 'impressive' means added high additional value to the work of the department.

 

- There is absolutely no evidence at all that the promotion was given on the basis of oldest member of the team or longest serving member of the team.

 

Yes that's all a bit of a dream, however IMHO until there is massive change to the promotion system / process then yes it will be very difficult to stop however much harsher penalties including mandatory jail for long periods, mandatory confiscation of all assets (and wives / husbands assets), mandatory immediate dismissal with no pension of other benefits, mandatory banning of ever working again in any form of government position and lifetime total ban from any activity, speech, comment, association with politics or politicians, punishable by serious jail time, and mandatory public shaming would help. 

 

 

It's a can of worms, corruption is a global cancer, and no country is immune.   2 of the 3 (maybe all 3 soon) estates (clergy, nobility, commoners) in this country are competing vigorously (and viciously) for their perceived due entitlements.

Edited June 17, 2018 by CanuckThai
penmanship

[rosst]

14 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Based on everything that we know of this scandal, these people are truly the scum of the Earth.

 

What kind of Buddhist, or even what kind of human being, steals from the neediest and most destitute among us? They are the epitome of evil.

 

What is a just punishment for them? Honestly, I do not think there is one, but a stopgap measure would be to take their savings, pension, cars, houses and every one of their assets and give them to the poor. Further, those scum who were 'directors' should be made to live on the pittance that was given to the neediest; hopefully good and decent Thai people would spit on them as they went past.

 

People who steal from the destitute/needy/handicapped are the second lowest form of life on the planet. The lowest are people who were given positions of trust in a government to help the destitute and instead lined their own pockets.

 

Scum. Pure scum.

 

Well said and you are correct, we all want to see them stripped of their wealth and loss of pension, we dream of them being jailed. 

[Telly]

About time a new ministry is set up

The ministry of inactive posts

[webfact]

Sixty-five officials suspended to facilitate probe into abuse of state funds for the needy

By The Nation

 

THE DEPARTMENT of Social Development and Welfare (DSDW) has suspended 65 senior officials nationwide from active duty to facilitate an investigation into alleged corruption involving hundreds of millions of baht of state welfare funds.

 

Earlier, Bt88 million worth of assets belonging to a former permanent secretary of the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security as well as 11 other senior officials were seized by the Anti-Money Laundering Organisation following criminal charges of corruption in public welfare funds.

 

To facilitate investigation into the alleged involvement of lower-level officials in these corruption cases, Napa Sethakorn, director-general of DSDW, said the chiefs of 65 local centres responsible for protection of poor and helpless people, have been moved out of their areas of responsibility. This was aimed at helping the investigators work without impediments in conjunction with counterparts from the Public Sector Anti-Corruption Commission (PACC).

 

The PACC has appointed a subcommittee to pursue alleged abuse of state welfare funds earmarked for poor and helpless people covering 59 of the 75 centres operated by the DSDW.

 

Napa said her agency had also taken disciplinary action against 14 centres after the PACC submitted the names of 96 officials who had allegedly committed wrongdoing when managing state welfare funds. On March 27 this year, the Cabinet passed a resolution to take disciplinary and other actions against state officials accused of embezzling the funds.

 

Wannop Somjitnakul, assistant secretary-general of the PACC, said preliminary findings on these corruption cases would be submitted today covering embezzlement from the fiscal 2017 budget.

 

Bt103 million budget

 

At this stage, the investigation covers alleged corruption of a budget totalling more than Bt103 million for centres responsible for helpless people and beggars and other units in charge of welfare and improvement of quality of life, centres for helping hilltribe people, and centres coordinating village cooperatives’ welfare projects.

 

These centres are located in multiple provinces, including Prachuab Khiri Khan, Phetchaburi, Si Saket, Nonthaburi, Chiang Mai, Saraburi, Surin, Songkhla, Phang Nga, Yala, Ubon Ratchatani, Lampang, Phayao, Phrae, Kam Phaeng Phet, Ratchaburi, Phitsanulok, Kanchanaburi, and Uthai Thani.

 

These provincial and remote centres have been tasked with helping the poor, homeless, and other helpless people in various areas throughout the country but their mission is unfortunately hit by abuse of funds.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30347958

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-06-18

[bluesofa]

10 hours ago, Telly said:

About time a new ministry is set up The ministry of inactive posts

The only thing that would worry me, is what to do with someone caught misbehaving in this ministry?

Maybe a final transfer to The Office of Perpetual Jogging might strike the fear of Buddha into them?

 

[Valentine]

23 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

I believe there are 72 office, so 65 out of 72 are suspect. It is my belief that most of these programs were inspired not by the desire to help poor people but to gain votes and open a path to divert government funds to officials. Look at the Eduction Ministry, Office of Buddhism, and others to see how the system works.

The rice scheme was probably the largest of these.

[TPI]

On 6/17/2018 at 7:21 AM, scorecard said:

 

Very well said...

Hear hear.