Mexico calls migrant children separation 'inhumane,' 'racist'

[MyFriend You]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Time for you to read up on this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism. "Therefore, racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial."

I prefer Mariam-Webster - Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.  

The word racism did not exist before the beginning of the 20th century..........it still doesn't describe what is happening at our borders  -  if a hundred Chinese or African families showed up, they would be separated as well so the practise is not directed solely against Latin Americans.  

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I prefer Mariam-Webster - Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.  

The word racism did not exist before the beginning of the 20th century..........it still doesn't describe what is happening at our borders  -  if a hundred Chinese or African families showed up, they would be separated as well so the practise is not directed solely against Latin Americans.  

Want to use that one, can do: " But the fact that the word is fairly new does not prove that the concept of racism did not exist in the distant past. " " Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like racism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing. " And finally "Today, Hawaii has one of the most diverse populations anywhere. Each group has its own stories of prejudice and opportunities limited by racism."

[MyFriend You]

40 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Want to use that one, can do: " But the fact that the word is fairly new does not prove that the concept of racism did not exist in the distant past. " " Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like racism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing. " And finally "Today, Hawaii has one of the most diverse populations anywhere. Each group has its own stories of prejudice and opportunities limited by racism."

 One learns something new & different everyday.  I also live in Hawaii when I am not in Thailand - - discrimination abounds there - and they are all Asian or Pacific Islanders, it's worse there than in the US.

[Credo]

11 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I don't defend the policy, but it is not "Racist"  inhumane, yes, but leave racism where it belongs.  Look at history, Japan, China, North Vietnam, Burma, Malaysia and most of Europe during the wars, they all did the same thing.

Just which war should we classify these incarcerations in?   The war on drugs maybe?

 

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I prefer Mariam-Webster - Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.  

The word racism did not exist before the beginning of the 20th century..........it still doesn't describe what is happening at our borders  -  if a hundred Chinese or African families showed up, they would be separated as well so the practise is not directed solely against Latin Americans.  

So you mean if Chinese and Africans showed up at the borders they would be perceived as white? Or do you mean  that if you're a racist you only get to choose one group to dislike? The rest not?

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[lovelomsak]

Yahoo has a new article concerning the Time   magazine article with the picture of a young girl crying.and said to be separated from parents.

  Time issued an apology. The girl wasnot separated from her parents and after the picture was taken she was picked up by her mother and taken away.

 So believe what you will. When a top magazine apologies for fake news maybe people should listen huh.

  I did not post a link but go to Yahoo it is new news will be there.

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by lovelomsak

[simple1]

29 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Yahoo has a new article concerning the Time   magazine article with the picture of a young girl crying.and said to be separated from parents.

  Time issued an apology. The girl wasnot separated from her parents and after the picture was taken she was picked up by her mother and taken away.

 So believe what you will. When a top magazine apologies for fake news maybe people should listen huh.

  I did not post a link but go to Yahoo it is new news will be there.

 

Is it "fake news" that the Trump Administration had been separating children from their parents as a deterrent method i.e. leveraging children for political purpose (cruel & unusual punishment). Answer - NO.

 

Other major MSM outlets have described the Time cover photo as a serious error as it enables Trump apologists to distract from the main issue; your post above being an excellent example.

 

Time's response...

 

“Under the policy enforced by the administration, prior to its reversal this week, those who crossed the border illegally were criminally prosecuted, which in turn resulted in the separation of children and parents. Our cover and our reporting capture the stakes of this moment.”

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by simple1

[bristolboy]

48 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Yahoo has a new article concerning the Time   magazine article with the picture of a young girl crying.and said to be separated from parents.

  Time issued an apology. The girl wasnot separated from her parents and after the picture was taken she was picked up by her mother and taken away.

 So believe what you will. When a top magazine apologies for fake news maybe people should listen huh.

  I did not post a link but go to Yahoo it is new news will be there.

 

So where's your indignation that this little girl's criminal mother wasn't locked up and they weren't separated?

[lovelomsak]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

So where's your indignation that this little girl's criminal mother wasn't locked up and they weren't separated?

Some of you guys are priceless and useless to I might say

[bristolboy]

51 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Some of you guys are priceless and useless to I might say

And some of you guys would be valueless if not for your use as object lessons.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:36 PM, bristolboy said:

Because they "sound more reasonable"? Really, Asylum seeking is about the conditions in the country, not whether a government makes reasonable sounds.

Perhaps they should fix the problems in their own countries before criticising the US for not wanting people fleeing those countries.

If Mexican politicians are so concerned for children migrating from Central America THROUGH Mexico, they could always keep those children and parents together in Mexico, rather than allowing them to transit to the US.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 10:20 AM, TunnelRat69 said:

I prefer Mariam-Webster - Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.  

The word racism did not exist before the beginning of the 20th century..........it still doesn't describe what is happening at our borders  -  if a hundred Chinese or African families showed up, they would be separated as well so the practise is not directed solely against Latin Americans.  

Agree that if a crowd of Norwegians with children turned up in the US illegally, their children would also have been separated. However, there are no crowds of Norwegians paying coyotes to smuggle them illegally into the US. If the policy affected mainly Mexican and Central Americans, that can be explained by pointing out they are the majority of illegal immigrants/ asylum seekers.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree that if a crowd of Norwegians with children turned up in the US illegally, their children would also have been separated. However, there are no crowds of Norwegians paying coyotes to smuggle them illegally into the US. If the policy affected mainly Mexican and Central Americans, that can be explained by pointing out they are the majority of illegal immigrants/ asylum seekers.

Try a decent analogy.   Norwegians don't need to be smuggled.   They don't even need a visa.   Just land in the US and disappear.   

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

[mcambl61]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:39 PM, stevenl said:

The USA would be much better of if a socialist had been in charge. But I presume you wanted to throw around an insult.

 

Real facts are really better for discussion than attempted insults, misleading information and made up facts.

Fortunately, the voters decided socialism is a disaster for the country. Common sense prevailed over the failures of the last 8 years. The insanity and unsustainability of leftist policies will not be accepted in the US, regardless of the relentless media hype.

Yes real facts are always better for discussion, so do not pretend children were not held under Obama, at a lower rate than now but with a blind eye to catch and release.

here are some “made up facts” for you

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/24/obama_dhs_sec_jeh_johnson_we_detained_children_it_was_necessary.html

https://www.dailywire.com/news/32123/report-minor-illegal-immigrant-detainees-brutally-ben-shapiro

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/21/dem_sen_tammy_baldwin_stumbles_when_cnn_anchor_asks_if_obama_family_separation_outraged_her.html

 

At least be honest about what is happening and be honest about the media reaction then and now.

The laws need to be restructured to allow guest workers/ e verify system. everybody would benefit. The asylum claims are nonsense, that is also a proven fact.

[mcambl61]

On 6/21/2018 at 7:05 PM, bristolboy said:

Children were being separated from their parents in 2014?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/24/obama_dhs_sec_jeh_johnson_we_detained_children_it_was_necessary.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/21/dem_sen_tammy_baldwin_stumbles_when_cnn_anchor_asks_if_obama_family_separation_outraged_her.html

[mcambl61]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:36 PM, bristolboy said:

More rightwing hysteria:

http://econofact.org/do-undocumented-immigrants-overuse-government-benefits

Overwhelmingly undocumented immigrants come here to work at low paying jobs.

But if Trump really wanted to put a dent in the number of undocumented workers, he could institute e-verify nationwide as he pledged to do during his campaign. Of course, that could result in wealthy people being imprisoned. Can't have that.

E verify is definitely needed, but Trump cannot do it on his own, it takes the dysfunctional congress to make it a law. both sides are to blame for it

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/24/obama_dhs_sec_jeh_johnson_we_detained_children_it_was_necessary.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/21/dem_sen_tammy_baldwin_stumbles_when_cnn_anchor_asks_if_obama_family_separation_outraged_her.html

No, children were not being separated from their parents as a matter of policy.  And the title of the second article is false. Baldwin was asked about children being detained. Not about children being separated from their parents. Here's the question that Senator Baldwin was asked:

"So many people in this country are certainly outraged by the cages, the thermal blankets, and the facilities housing these kids. You know, they were all there in 2014 under President Obama. And my question to you, Senator Baldwin, did you up against them then?" CNN's Baldwin asked.

 

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

E verify is definitely needed, but Trump cannot do it on his own, it takes the dysfunctional congress to make it a law. both sides are to blame for it

Trump called ‘very weak’ on E-Verify effort in US

 

In President Donald Trump’s many vocal pronouncements about stopping illegal immigration, one solution he promoted during the campaign has been conspicuously missing: a requirement that employers check whether workers are legal.

Eight states require nearly all employers to use the federal government’s online “E-Verify” tool to check whether new hires are eligible to work in the U.S., but efforts to expand the mandate to all states have stalled, despite polls showing widespread support and studies showing it reduces unauthorized workers...

Despite his administration’s “Hire American” rhetoric, Trump and the GOP leadership have gone quiet on mandating E-Verify, draining momentum from a top policy goal of grass-roots Republicans.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/22/trump-called-very-weak-on-e-verify-effort-in-us/

[mcambl61]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

No, children were not being separated from their parents as a matter of policy.  And the title of the second article is false. Baldwin was asked about children being detained. Not about children being separated from their parents. Here's the question that Senator Baldwin was asked:

"So many people in this country are certainly outraged by the cages, the thermal blankets, and the facilities housing these kids. You know, they were all there in 2014 under President Obama. And my question to you, Senator Baldwin, did you up against them then?" CNN's Baldwin asked.

 

you can pretend to be more outraged now if it makes you feel better. Jeh johnson said children were detained dependant upon circumstances in 2014. but if you want to pretend it did not happen that is your choice

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

you can pretend to be more outraged now if it makes you feel better. Jeh johnson said children were detained dependant upon circumstances in 2014. but if you want to pretend it did not happen that is your choice

So you don't see the difference?

[mcambl61]

13 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Trump called ‘very weak’ on E-Verify effort in US

 

In President Donald Trump’s many vocal pronouncements about stopping illegal immigration, one solution he promoted during the campaign has been conspicuously missing: a requirement that employers check whether workers are legal.

Eight states require nearly all employers to use the federal government’s online “E-Verify” tool to check whether new hires are eligible to work in the U.S., but efforts to expand the mandate to all states have stalled, despite polls showing widespread support and studies showing it reduces unauthorized workers...

Despite his administration’s “Hire American” rhetoric, Trump and the GOP leadership have gone quiet on mandating E-Verify, draining momentum from a top policy goal of grass-roots Republicans.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/22/trump-called-very-weak-on-e-verify-effort-in-us/

If you are being honest, you have to completely restructure the E verify system and make it properly funded and staffed, which it clearly isn't. in other words a typical govt run boondoggle.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/judicial/300701-8-key-requirements-e-verify-congressional-mandate

So implementing it nationwide will take some serious effort, but it is needed badly.

 

Trump in October listed E-Verify among his immigration prioritiesand in February requested $23 million in his 2019 budget proposal to expand the program for mandatory nationwide use.

[mcambl61]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So you don't see the difference?

No, i am not in an empathy contest to make myself feel better than someone else. Illegal entry is illegal for a reason. I put the blame on the people breaking the law and the countries aiding, abetting and profiting from it. I also blame the congress for ignoring the people's demand for proper immigration laws and funding for the wall.

The laws need to be changed to eliminate the loopholes. it is not racist or evil or any other silly description used by the left to shutdown any discussion and solution

[mcambl61]

On 6/21/2018 at 8:12 PM, attrayant said:

 

This was not happening in 2014.  Your ignorance and deceit tells all.

Thank you for the ridiculous arrogant assumption that your opinion grants you the magical insight to decide I am ignorant and trying to “deceive”. 

 

The left is resorting to violence and invading personal lives with ill intent and parade around like they are virtuous and can justify any behaviour.

 
Many things were happening during and after the 2014 illegal immigrant surge but conveniently and purposely ignored by the left all by design. You can ignore that if you desire. But it is dishonest.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ap-report-on-alleged-illegal-immigrant-abuse-at-detention-centers-omits-obama-was-president-at-time
https://www.dailywire.com/news/32123/report-minor-illegal-immigrant-detainees-brutally-ben-shapiro

the source of that is from the AP, purposely trying to twist it to present day instead of clearly stating it was from 2015. that is by design, regardless of your opinion and it is typical of the dishonesty being used by the media. That, attrayant, is the very definition of deceit. 

if you agree with media policy of selective outrage that is your choice. Just be honest with what was happening then. A media in love with a socialist president that they agreed with and would do anything to dismiss whatever was inconvenient to the leftist narrative. Full stop. The examples are everywhere.

increase in apprehensions is not a coincidence. they are now shifting to claiming “asylum” and are being coached on what to say. at least 85 percent are found to be fraudulent claims. Just be honest on what is going on if you can.

this is not an empathy or virtue contest. Congress could easily fix the guest worker program so we could legally use as much immigrant labor as needed, have no identity fraud, make employers and guest workers pay taxes legally and we should do this now. Everybody would win except those wanting even cheaper labor. Both sides have failed on this thanks to lobbyists and business influence. Be honest about what is happening. 

 

It is not racist or cruel or any other ridiculous descriptions cooked up by the left to get it fixed and stop the flow of illegal entries. Getting the government to actually fix it responsibly is the real issue and we all know why it has not happened. The current president is not to blame, but at least he is trying to fix it, as he was voted in to do so. Instead all we get is people calling anyone not in line with the ideology a racist/evil/nazis/uneducated, etc to purposely shutdown any kind of honest views/solutions or to

stop anyone questioning the left's narrative.

 

at the very absolute least, be honest about the problem if you can. If you can’t and just want to call people ignorant that is your choice. And you win the empathy contest.

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

No, i am not in an empathy contest to make myself feel better than someone else. Illegal entry is illegal for a reason. I put the blame on the people breaking the law and the countries aiding, abetting and profiting from it. I also blame the congress for ignoring the people's demand for proper immigration laws and funding for the wall.

The laws need to be changed to eliminate the loopholes. it is not racist or evil or any other silly description used by the left to shutdown any discussion and solution

So you also blame Trump, who told Congress to wait with any laws till after the November election.

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, mcambl61 said:

Fortunately, the voters decided socialism is a disaster for the country.

 

I don't think the election was a referendum on socialism, but if you really think that facts are better for a discussion, we should note that what the voters chose (by a margin of nearly 3 million votes) and what we ended up with are two different things.

 

 

[attrayant]

23 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

The left is resorting to violence and invading personal lives with ill intent and parade around like they are virtuous and can justify any behaviour.

 

You say that you can discern the intent of an entire bloc of the population, and then you deride ME for claiming to have "magical insight"??

[mcambl61]

19 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So you also blame Trump, who told Congress to wait with any laws till after the November election.

No, I blame the decades of purposeful inaction of congress, which is the actual truth. I know you have a bias, it is ok

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, mcambl61 said:

you can pretend to be more outraged now if it makes you feel better. Jeh johnson said children were detained dependant upon circumstances in 2014. but if you want to pretend it did not happen that is your choice

Children were detained not separated from their parents except in rare instances. It was not a matter of policy. So I'm pretending nothing. And as for "you can pretend to be more outraged now if it makes you feel better" it's just another cheap and dishonest shot. Stop pretending you're a mindreader.