How Much Do Govt. Schools Get For Foreign Teachers?

[Andrew108]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

To those English-as-a-first-language-speakers who still maintain that Thai shouldn't be used in the classroom, I have two questions:

 

1. have you ever learnt a second language (3rd, etc)?

2. did do you do that without using English?

 

It's cognitively impossible of course.

It depends on the 'cognitive load' - or how much complex information the students need to process. In any case, all Thai students will have had English explained to them in Thai.

[My Thai Life]

So it's ok for Thai to be used in the classroom, but not when the farangs are there because the farangs wouldn't understand it?

 

I wonder how many farang teachers in government schools there are actively contributing to this forum at present?

 

I'd be interested to know how many depend on Thai "assistant teachers" for translation?

[Andrew108]

It’s certainly o.k for Thai to be used in the classroom. How much Thai is used depends in what is being taught and who is doing the teaching.

NES teachers have a specific role and they really don’t need to speak Thai. It’s important to remember that a student will have quite a few teachers during their studies and each teacher brings something different. 

[My Thai Life]

7 minutes ago, Andrew108 said:

NES teachers have a specific role and they really don’t need to speak Thai.

Ouch, well there's a generalisation if ever I saw one.

 

I'd still like to know from the point view of honest enquiry etc etc... do the farang government school teachers here depend on Thai "assistant teachers" or not?

 

I'd suggest that those that do are really the assistant teachers and their Thai "assistants" are the real teachers. And the  salaries should be reversed accordingly.

 

Any takers?

 

[WonnabeBiker]

On 8/23/2018 at 10:10 AM, My Thai Life said:

Hi, the students tell me that, as a worse case, the teacher just walks in, gives the lead student the sheets of paper to distribute, and walks out.

I think we're in agreement - there is little English speaking support in many government schools. And in many, maybe most schools it's impossible for the foreign teacher who doesn't speak Thai to be effective, even if the schools do give the clarification you refer to (I agree, they usually don't).

By the way, I really admire the good foreign teachers who do commit themselves to government schools. I am occasionally requested to teach in government schools, and I do know quite a few Thai teachers and heads in government schools, and I definitely wouldn't chose to do it myself!

Have a good day.

 

 

 

 

 

A boy from a new class (I saw him maybe 3 or 4 times for an hour) came up to me and started speaking Thai. After a delay, I gathered that he said which class he is in. A class which I would have later that day.

 

Friendly, eager to communicate - but also clearly not used to even  b a s i c English. (He was in a gifted Science class).

 

What to do?

 

I would offer online voice mail (for practice, followed by real conversation later on, if that's possible). Or free 1 on 1 meetings, to make them lose their fear of speaking (one can dream).

 

Not one student has left me voice mail or tried to call my LINE.

 

It's tiring and somewhat futile. But young learners often surprise me with amazing comunication skills. Parents seems to make a great effort now and then!

[My Thai Life]

41 minutes ago, WonnabeBiker said:

A boy from a new class (I saw him maybe 3 or 4 times for an hour) came up to me and started speaking Thai. After a delay, I gathered that he said which class he is in. A class which I would have later that day.

 

Friendly, eager to communicate - but also clearly not used to even  b a s i c English. (He was in a gifted Science class).

 

What to do?

 

I would offer online voice mail (for practice, followed by real conversation later on, if that's possible). Or free 1 on 1 meetings, to make them lose their fear of speaking (one can dream).

 

Not one student has left me voice mail or tried to call my LINE.

 

It's tiring and somewhat futile. But young learners often surprise me with amazing comunication skills. Parents seems to make a great effort now and then!

wonnabe, you sound like a decent person, with  good motivation. But I don't really understand where you're going with that comment.

 

You want them to leave voicemail, or call you on LINE? But they can't speak English and you can't understand Thai?

 

By the way, I'm not really criticising farangs who work in Thai government schools. I'm saying that their job is impossible! For many reasons. Being able to speak Thai would make that job much easier, especially outside of the classroom.

[Andrew108]

54 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Ouch, well there's a generalisation if ever I saw one.

 

I'd still like to know from the point view of honest enquiry etc etc... do the farang government school teachers here depend on Thai "assistant teachers" or not?

 

I'd suggest that those that do are really the assistant teachers and their Thai "assistants" are the real teachers. And the  salaries should be reversed accordingly.

 

Any takers?

 

When I was teaching in a Thai high school I never had an assistant, but of course its possible - and if you teach in the EPIC program in Korea you'll get to 'co-teach'. 

But again you need to remember that NES teachers have a fluency that Thai teachers don't have, and for students, coming into contact with a NES and their fluency is really really important. Consider two key aspects of language teaching - motivation and context creation. NES teachers can provide both. Also authenticity is especially important.

Anyway views vary, but as I've said NES teachers can be extremely valuable (depending on the teacher and the admin setup). I don't really want to keep discussing this so I'll bow out of the conversation.

[My Thai Life]

1 minute ago, Andrew108 said:

But again you need to remember that NES teachers have a fluency that Thai teachers don't have, and for students, coming into contact with a NES and their fluency is really really important.

No one can deny that. I agree.

[BurgerGung]

On 8/26/2018 at 4:50 PM, My Thai Life said:

So it's ok for Thai to be used in the classroom, but not when the farangs are there because the farangs wouldn't understand it?

 

I wonder how many farang teachers in government schools there are actively contributing to this forum at present?

 

I'd be interested to know how many depend on Thai "assistant teachers" for translation?

Well, in the past, an over-eager TA drove me up the wall. She would translate  e v e r y t h i n g  and the kids responded by no longer even trying.

 

Moreover, I believe that English-English dictionaries are the way to go.

 

Making an effort counts for something. And constant Thai is quite disruptive, JMHO. (The odd explanation in Thai? Why not)

[Scott]

18 hours ago, BurgerGung said:

Well, in the past, an over-eager TA drove me up the wall. She would translate  e v e r y t h i n g  and the kids responded by no longer even trying.

 

Moreover, I believe that English-English dictionaries are the way to go.

 

Making an effort counts for something. And constant Thai is quite disruptive, JMHO. (The odd explanation in Thai? Why not)

I once taught the top prathom 2 class, I think there were 9 classes altogether.   They had decent English for being so young, but the Thai classroom teacher constantly translated everything.   It got to the point where the students didn't even look at me, they just watched her.  

 

I tried to explain to her, it was not good for her to do that.   The book we had was part of series, so they had been using the series for a while and it was pretty easy.  

 

By the end of the year, all the other sections of prathom 2 had overtaken the top class.   The top class started prathom 3 as the worst performing.  

 

The students have to develop their ear for a language.   That means learning to listen, to hear the cadence and rhythm of the language.   They also need to develop confidence.  

 

[My Thai Life]

So I assume that all the posters here who advocate an English only approach to "teaching" English have tried this method when learning a second language themselves. 

 

I wonder if there are any farangs here who have a decent ability in Thai or Chinese or Japanese who learned the foreign language from a teacher who cannot speak English, and by using Thai-Thai, Chinese-Chinese, or Japanese-Japanese dictionaries. Moreover, many of the farangs who claim fluency in Thai seem to be unable to read Thai, yet all Prathom students I have ever met have some ability to read English.

 

It's quite painful to see such double standards from people who claim to be teachers.

 

The English only approach to teaching English was consigned to the dustbin quite a while ago as more progressive approaches developed. Anyone who has done an MA in TEFL in the last 20 years would know this. Actually, anyone who has enough interest in their "profession" would know this just by reading a professional journal or two.

Edited September 11, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Andrew108]

Here we are again. NES teachers in public schools in Thailand have a specific role. You seem to think that Thai students learn English only ever from NES teachers. Of course they have English explained to them in Thai. 

[My Thai Life]

Actually Andrew, the majority of government schools do not have farang teachers, so your premise is incorrect. Add to that:

 

> conversation is not tested nationally, and cannot be

> conversation skills cannot be developed in a few hours of classtime per week

> conversation skills play no part in a student going into tertiary education in a Thai university

> the majority of adult Thais never need to speak English

> the inability of farangs to speak Thai is a drawback inside and outside of the classroom (as we know from the endless stream of complaints from alienated farangs on this forum)

> progressive approaches to TEFL for at least the last 20 years advocate the use of the 1st language

> anyone who has ever learned a second language knows that it's impossible to do so without employing the first language.

 

Putting the above together, I'd say that there's a very good case for not employing farangs in government schools at all. They are generally ineffective and overpriced. And very few are qualified teachers.

 

Given that the main function of this sub-forum is for farangs to vent their frustrations at the difficulties they experience in Thailand, I'm not expecting too many posters to agree with me. But being right is neither a numbers game nor a popularity contest.

Edited September 11, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Andrew108]

I don’t really understand the point you are making here. The schools that hire NES teachers also have Thai teachers teaching English. Again....the role of an NES teacher is very specific.

Anyway, after some thought, I don’t plan to do any teaching in Thailand so I should probably stay out of this conversation.

[MrPatrickThai]

On 8/26/2018 at 6:14 PM, WonnabeBiker said:

A boy from a new class (I saw him maybe 3 or 4 times for an hour) came up to me and started speaking Thai. After a delay, I gathered that he said which class he is in. A class which I would have later that day.

 

Friendly, eager to communicate - but also clearly not used to even  b a s i c English. (He was in a gifted Science class).

 

What to do?

 

I would offer online voice mail (for practice, followed by real conversation later on, if that's possible). Or free 1 on 1 meetings, to make them lose their fear of speaking (one can dream).

 

Not one student has left me voice mail or tried to call my LINE.

 

It's tiring and somewhat futile. But young learners often surprise me with amazing comunication skills. Parents seems to make a great effort now and then!

How old are the students?

 

I have put 4 kids through school in Thailand. If a teacher, especially a foreigner, asked them to phone them, I'd have been straight down to the school, or even the police.