Concerns About Christian Missionaries

[garro]

I do not mean for this topic to cause offence but this is something that genuinely concerns me. I also do not wish to make any judgements about anyone's religious beliefs, my concerns are solely to do with how religious groups recrut new members. I will understand if the moderators decide that this topic is too inflammatory and so remove it from the forum.

For the last two and a half years I have lived in a small village in Phitsanulok province. In the local area their is a Christian missionary which is very active in the community. It offers the local children scholarships, gifts for them and their families ( an example of this was duvets last month) as well as expensive holidays. They also have many fun activities at the centre. Apparently the money for this comes from the States. The children only recieve these benefits if they attend weekly services at the Christian centre and most of the children in our village now attend.

I think that this is a very unfair way of recruiting people to their religion. I also know that most of the villagers feel the same way but still send their children along anyway. Many will ask the question, why send their children? but I would imagine it is hard to turn down any financial incentives when you are poor. I do know that many of the children retain their Buddhist beliefs despite attending this Christian group.

I must add that I have no contact with this group, nor would I wish to. What I know about them comes from talking to the villagers and local monk as well as from the children who I teach in the local school.

I know that many of the members of this forum are probably Christian and wonder what their views are? I could be wrong, but I doubt that these missionaries use the same method in South Thailand in muslim areas.

Again, I do not wish for this post to upset anyone.

[phibunmike]

I share your concerns.

Whilst missionaries over the years have performed many good deeds, helping to provide education, medicine, etc., it is NOT charity and comes at a heavy price - the cultural and religious heritage of the community. It has been described by some writers as a form of cultural and religious imperialism. I object to taking advantage of someone's poverty as a means to impose one's own ideas upon them.

Garro, your post was carefully written so as not to cause offence. I also have no intention of causing offence, but I think I have stated my opinion in slightly stronger terms than you. I personally am not Christian, but I think that even if I was (perhaps especially if I was) I would not condone this type of indoctrination.

Cheers,

Mike

[buriramboy]

also what about the missionaries who stand outside Nana Plaza (presume they are still there) trying to force their evil ways on you?

[Farma]

My wife expressed concerns about these guys recently too.

Her main gripe was the way the recent arrivals act in a holier than thou manner when dealing with people they obviously see as educated and less likely to be converted. I witnessed their attitude as well.

Unbeknown to them I was in a back room our business when they walked in asking for advice and recommendation of a product. My wife offered professional advice which was rudely rejected. I walked into the shop to see what was happening and on my appearance they quickly departed.

This wasn’t a one off occurrence. It’s happened on a number of occasions in the past year with different missionaries.

These concerns have been expressed by the majority of my wife’s work colleagues. The general consensus was they aren’t welcome and why do they bother coming to Thailand if they can’t show respect.

[t.s]

I do not mean for this topic to cause offence but this is something that genuinely concerns me. I also do not wish to make any judgements about anyone's religious beliefs, my concerns are solely to do with how religious groups recrut new members. I will understand if the moderators decide that this topic is too inflammatory and so remove it from the forum.

For the last two and a half years I have lived in a small village in Phitsanulok province. In the local area their is a Christian missionary which is very active in the community. It offers the local children scholarships, gifts for them and their families ( an example of this was duvets last month) as well as expensive holidays. They also have many fun activities at the centre. Apparently the money for this comes from the States. The children only recieve these benefits if they attend weekly services at the Christian centre and most of the children in our village now attend.

I think that this is a very unfair way of recruiting people to their religion. I also know that most of the villagers feel the same way but still send their children along anyway. Many will ask the question, why send their children? but I would imagine it is hard to turn down any financial incentives when you are poor. I do know that many of the children retain their Buddhist beliefs despite attending this Christian group.

I must add that I have no contact with this group, nor would I wish to. What I know about them comes from talking to the villagers and local monk as well as from the children who I teach in the local school.

I know that many of the members of this forum are probably Christian and wonder what their views are? I could be wrong, but I doubt that these missionaries use the same method in South Thailand in muslim areas.

Again, I do not wish for this post to upset anyone.

you are right to be concerned, perhaps even angered. it is essentially bribery. Providing wells schooling, or much need items to benefit a community is laudable. making benfits contingent upon attendance of religious services is cynical, hypocritical and just plain wrong.

i would relish making my opinions known to them if they were in my neigbourhood

[garro]

I am glad that others share my concerns. I did not wish to appear intolerant.

A part of me would love to complain to this group personally, but it is probably not a good idea to go looking for trouble. Years ago I had a girlfriend who became involved with a hardcore Christian group, and it was imposible to have a conversation with her afterwards if it involved any type of negativity towards her new beliefs. I would imagine that if this group is willing to resort to bribery to attract members they are probably beyond reasonable arguments. Anybody in the villlage who knows me is aware of my views on these people.

I console myself with the knowledge that despite 700 years of missionaries coming to Thailand, it still remains a mostly Buddhist country.

[buriramboy]

garro, what does the local kamnan say or think about them? or is he bribed too?

[kmart]

Suggested recipes, anyone?

[sai grok]

I don't know if I would go as far as to say I'm concerned. However I am always wary about christian groups offer free services like teaching English etc.

IMO english lessons that are free, should be just that, without gentle (or not so gentle) promotion of beliefs

[Momo8]

Religion is up to the individual and every individual should embrace it at their on free will, not something that is forced down people's throats.(Notice that I said religion not Christianity.) Phibunmike i totally agree about missionaries taking advantage of people's poverty to impress their ideas.That village missionary mob is brainwashing the underprivilidged and buying people.Why don't they use that money to build a school or hospital?Duvets OK but expensive holidays?

If this happened in China (which there is no chance of happening) they would all be kicked out.A year ago many Canadian missionaries came to the South of China as English teachers working for a pittance to recruit students.Government got rid of al of them as a couple were teaching English out of the bible.Big no-no in China.Thailand should adopt the same practice.

[leisurely]

Blimey, a consensus of opinion (so far). I too think it is wrong to bribe people. IMHO, if a person wishes to worship a pencil/tree/string of beads, it is their right to do so. Who is to say they are wrong. I really don't think it is anyone elses place to try to change their mind and lead them along the 'true path'. Even my husband agrees and he is a weekly communicant of the catholic church.

[elkangorito]

I am suspicious of any 'organised religion'. The word 'religion' comes from Latin..."re-ligare", which means "to bring together". So far, I haven't seen 1 organised religion that does this. I have, however, noticed that most religions seem to want to "segregate" humans by way of rule & belief. The standard method for achieving this is the use of fear tactics. Who was it that said, "Divide & conquer"?

On the other hand, every human is a free spirit in their own right, so I would not blame religion for anything that individuals decide to do.

After all, even if you held a gun to somebodys' head, they still have choices as to their action(s), perhaps not nice choices but nonetheless choices. Therefore, 1 person can't be forced to obey another (unless a person wants to be controlled).

The choice is always ours...always.

Edited February 2, 2007 by elkangorito

[t.s]

I am suspicious of any 'organised religion'. The word 'religion' comes from Latin..."re-ligare", which means "to bring together". So far, I haven't seen 1 organised religion that does this. I have, however, noticed that most religions seem to want to "segregate" humans by way of rule & belief. The standard method for achieving this is the use of fear tactics. Who was it that said, "Divide & conquer"?

On the other hand, every human is a free spirit in their own right, so I would not blame religion for anything that individuals decide to do.

After all, even if you held a gun to somebodys' head, they still have choices as to their action(s), perhaps not nice choices but nonetheless choices. Therefore, 1 person can't be forced to obey another (unless a person wants to be controlled).

The choice is always ours...always.

I think this is much more insidious than that

Yes there is always free will. however freewill is compromised by providing material incentives. the people sending their children to these services may believe that they are pulling one over on the farang and completely unawre that some of the "teachings" may actually stick.

Christian charity should not be conditional. if it is it is not chartiy.

Edited February 2, 2007 by t.s

[Momo8]

Just wondering.....if the children and people in that village can understand English and what the missionaries are talking to them about.They probably haven't got a clue who Jesus or God or anyone else is and are just thankful for the freebies.Poverty maketh one practical.Amen.

[garro]

The centre in our village is presently run by Thai Christians; but as I said in the original post they are backed by money from America. They hold their services in Thai and use Thai Christian Hymns. I have also seen their pamphlets which are also written in Thai. They also provide English lessons.

Edited February 2, 2007 by garro

[DragonQuest]

great thread

And i would like to add that they are on KAO SARN ROAD SCREAMING THEIRS HEADS OFF, WHO DO THESE PEOLPE THINK THEY ARE? Im chatholic and happy, but I dont see the point getting drunks and bar hoppers to a church in the nightlife area lol theres a group of them shouting the way of the lord and how life will end and you must believe in god blah blah blah .....

[elkangorito]

I've often wondered about these 'faithful' people who go around the world, flogging their religion. It doesn't make sense! If one really had faith in their religion, one wouldn't need to recruit more people? And if so the need to recruit, why?

I've never had a Thai Buddhist try to do anything other than have a chat to me...& usually not about religion.

Perhaps the "do-gooders" down south might like to take a feather out of the Buddhist cap & "mind their own business".

[Momo8]

Maybe they want to save all those morally corrupt individuals who have fallen into temptation....I'm surprised none of them have met with a brick as yet, fastest way to see God.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Momo8

[GuestHouse]

Let me give you a quote from the Dalai Lama "Religion Makes Good People".

In the haste to attack Christians missionaries in Thailand, let us not forget the absolutely first rate work Christian Missions have done in Thailand with Orphanages, Street Kids, The Victims of the Sex Industry, People Suffering from HIV/AIDS and their work with Ethnic Minorities and the Stateless people of Thailand. The Christian Missions also provide some of the best schools in Thailand.

Let us also remember that Thailand has no official religion and that the Thai Constitution protects freedom of worship.

[elkangorito]

Blimey, a consensus of opinion (so far)............

Let me give you a quote from the Dalai Lama "Religion Makes Good People".

In the haste to attack Christians missionaries in Thailand, let us not forget the absolutely first rate work Christian Missions have done in Thailand with Orphanages, Street Kids, The Victims of the Sex Industry, People Suffering from HIV/AIDS and their work with Ethnic Minorities and the Stateless people of Thailand. The Christian Missions also provide some of the best schools in Thailand.

Let us also remember that Thailand has no official religion and that the Thai Constitution protects freedom of worship.

End of consensus

[popshirt]

Let me give you a quote from the Dalai Lama "Religion Makes Good People". <snip>

I cannot agree with this kind of comprehensive statement. Some of the good-est people I have met in my long life have been secular humanists who are not religious in any conventional way.

Examples of the bad effects of religion are in our headlines every day, in all parts of the world.

So far, up until this latest post, I have been pleased with the gentle and reasoned approach from TV folk. Keep it up!

[sai grok]

Let me make it clear that I have no problem with people choosing religion, however, selling religion with promises of freebies can't be right ... can it ?

[Momo8]

Says it all.

[garro]

I am sorry Guesthouse but it is not my intention to criticise all missionary work (although I do wonder why people who want to help others need to advertise their beliefs). My concern is with the methods used to recruit new followers by a certain a Christian group the village where I live.

I think that everyone who visits Thailand is aware of their tolerance for people of all religions and that all religions are protected here. I suspect that this tolerance is due to Thailand being a 95% Buddhist country.

[elkangorito]

Let me give you a quote from the Dalai Lama "Religion Makes Good People". <snip>

I cannot agree with this kind of comprehensive statement. Some of the good-est people I have met in my long life have been secular humanists who are not religious in any conventional way.

Examples of the bad effects of religion are in our headlines every day, in all parts of the world.

So far, up until this latest post, I have been pleased with the gentle and reasoned approach from TV folk. Keep it up!

I don't think it's sensible or reasonable to concede on a current issue due to 'perceived' good/bad deeds of past issues.

Let's reverse this way of thinking...what about wanting to like an organisation but you find that most people disagree with you due to the organisations' bad deeds of the past.

When you find out that your girlfriend of 15 years spent 2 years as a prostitute (before you met), do you, after 15 years of happiness, suddenly dislike her for something she did before you met?

Should one suddenly begin to like an organisation(s) that for years segregated people & started wars, just because of a couple of good deeds done today? Of course, one can forgive them but one doesn't need to put up with them.

Hopefully the people down south will see through this ruse & ignore the 'faithless ones'.

[GuestHouse]

I cannot agree with this kind of comprehensive statement. Some of the good-est people I have met in my long life have been secular humanists who are not religious in any conventional way.

That the Dalai Larma states 'Religion Makes Good People', does not preclude non religious people from being good people, nor does it mean that all religious people are good people.

I'm studdying a course in philosophy at the moment, I'd be intrigued to hear examples 'Humanism' that are not routed in religion.

Examples of the bad effects of religion are in our headlines every day, in all parts of the world. Don't confuse the effects of religion with the effects of the political manipulation of people using religion as a pretext

So far, up until this latest post, I have been pleased with the gentle and reasoned approach from TV folk. Let me understand this correctly, you are the arbitor of what is and is not 'gentle and reasoned'. Keep it up!

[elkangorito]

Now it's getting interesting.

[elkangorito]

I'm studdying a course in philosophy at the moment.........

How can you 'study' philosophy? It's within every human being in the most complete form.

[GuestHouse]

How can you 'study' philosophy? It's within every human being in the most complete form.

And therein lays the very best reason to study the subject.

[PeaceBlondie]

Many of us are ignorant or misinformed about many things. It is hardly just Thai politicians who bribe people to get their allegiance. Yes, many religions, missionaries, etc., have been terrible; the same goes for nations, other religions, atheists, etc. And as GuestHouse points out, many true acts of charity have been performed, by good people of all backgrounds.

Missionary work suffers from a terrible reputation, most of it deserved because of its history. Many missionary groups now, however, are far less likely to impose their culture, or to force their values, upon new converts. I belong to a denomination that does very little 'mission' work such as strong evangelism and proselytizing, but it does lots of aid and development work, disaster relief, and peace-making work.

It's wrong to bribe children with expensive trips. Each of us might get to know our local missionaries by name, talk with them, find out what they do. I was taught at a Baptist college that Jesuits were the worst, and found that to be absolutely wrong. At a recent mass, the missionary priest mentioned a modern Christian martyr: Tom Fox, an American Quaker with the Christian Peacemakers Team, who was killed in Iraq a year ago.