Concerns About Christian Missionaries

[Xangsamhua]

Insensitivity and manipulation - intended or otherwise - by missionaries, especially in the past, has produced the kind of reaction we see in the above posts. This kind of activity by so-called Christian missionaries is way, way out of line with current understandings of what mission is about.

As most people would expect, and perhaps accept, contemporary understanding of mission, at least in my tradition, and probably for the past 40 years at least, has focussed on witnessing to Jesus' teaching by deeds rather than words. Hence, the building of hospitals, schools, AIDS centres and the like. However, given the opportunity, missionaries will explain their faith and, if people want to take it up, will assist them. Why would they not?

I suspect only fundamentalists see much mileage in trying to convert Buddhists or Muslims. Islam and Buddhism are sophisticated religions with a transphenomenal metaphysics. Why would they convert to Christianity? Most conversion in Thailand, I understand, has taken place in villages that have not become Buddhist, but have practised local and animistic religions. Mind you, the people don't discard their religious traditions altogether. Would you expect them to?

Let's not be too hard on the missionaries. Men like Fr Joe Meier (Mercy Centre, Klong Toey), Fr Ray Brennan (deceased: Pattaya Orphanage), the Thai Redemptorist missionaries in the North and Northeast, and others have done and still do wonderful work with the neediest and most vulnerable of people in Thailand, and they certainly don't do it as a mask for "religious imperialism". I name only the Catholic missionaries, as I don't know of others. I can understand some of the umbrage expressed above. Christians deserve to be criticised, perhaps abused, for their arrogance in the past and, in some quarters the present as well, but we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

[garro]

Insensitivity and manipulation - intended or otherwise - by missionaries, especially in the past, has produced the kind of reaction we see in the above posts. This kind of activity by so-called Christian missionaries is way, way out of line with current understandings of what mission is about.

As most people would expect, and perhaps accept, contemporary understanding of mission, at least in my tradition, and probably for the past 40 years at least, has focussed on witnessing to Jesus' teaching by deeds rather than words. Hence, the building of hospitals, schools, AIDS centres and the like. However, given the opportunity, missionaries will explain their faith and, if people want to take it up, will assist them. Why would they not?

I suspect only fundamentalists see much mileage in trying to convert Buddhists or Muslims. Islam and Buddhism are sophisticated religions with a transphenomenal metaphysics. Why would they convert to Christianity? Most conversion in Thailand, I understand, has taken place in villages that have not become Buddhist, but have practised local and animistic religions. Mind you, the people don't discard their religious traditions altogether. Would you expect them to?

Let's not be too hard on the missionaries. Men like Fr Joe Meier (Mercy Centre, Klong Toey), Fr Ray Brennan (deceased: Pattaya Orphanage), the Thai Redemptorist missionaries in the North and Northeast, and others have done and still do wonderful work with the neediest and most vulnerable of people in Thailand, and they certainly don't do it as a mask for "religious imperialism". I name only the Catholic missionaries, as I don't know of others. I can understand some of the umbrage expressed above. Christians deserve to be criticised, perhaps abused, for their arrogance in the past and, in some quarters the present as well, but we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

Your post is a pleasure to read. I am sure that you are a great ambassador for your religion.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions.

I don't know why anyone would accuse this genius of being anti-American.

[Ulysses G.]

The level of discussion appears to be deteriorating. Personal abuse is becoming common on both sides and of course, the sure sign some one is losing the argument, accusations of anti Americanism are flying.

svenivan Posted Today, 2007-02-05 08:35:39

But Christians, and I think the ones from US are the worst

[Little Black Duck]

Genesis 26: And God said, Let us (my italics, God said US because he is Father, Son, Holy Spirit) make man in our image, after our likeness:...[/

Smiley Old Son..I'm having a bit of a problem here..

If God made man in his own image, seeing as how we have

Caucasians, Asians, Blacks, Melanesians ,Polynesians etc..

Your God must have been one freaky looking Dude..

I'm with Tutsi and Slackula..

Edited February 5, 2007 by Little Black Duck

[lannarebirth]

"Intelligent" people are always hoping to stop people who are helping the poor for what they see as the wrong reasons or as having suspect motivations. When will "intelligent" people simply put there wasted energy into helping poor people?

If every person who is repulsed by missionaries took just a little time to perform the services the missionaries do, for the most impoverished; then they would be made superfluous very quickly.

[garro]

"Intelligent" people are always hoping to stop people who are helping the poor for what they see as the wrong reasons or as having suspect motivations. When will "intelligent" people simply put there wasted energy into helping poor people?

If every person who is repulsed by missionaries took just a little time to perform the services the missionaries do, for the most impoverished; then they would be made superfluous very quickly.

Hey,

While I am cocerned about the methods used by the local missionaries it does not mean I am against helping people.

I have taught for free in two local schools for over two years now.

I am also a qualified nurse who not only worked for money but also for free.

At no time did I do this in order to change people's religion

[sceadugenga]

The level of discussion appears to be deteriorating. Personal abuse is becoming common on both sides and of course, the sure sign some one is losing the argument, accusations of anti Americanism are flying.

svenivan Posted Today, 2007-02-05 08:35:39

But Christians, and I think the ones from US are the worst

So if I don't like American hamburgers that makes me anti American?

I don't like mushy peas so that makes me anti British?

I don't like Kylie Minogue so I'm anti Australian?

Want to hear what I think of frog legs and snails?

Edited February 5, 2007 by sceadugenga

[Ulysses G.]

The level of discussion appears to be deteriorating. Personal abuse is becoming common on both sides and of course, the sure sign some one is losing the argument, accusations of anti Americanism are flying.

svenivan Posted Today, 2007-02-05 08:35:39

But Christians, and I think the ones from US are the worst

So if I don't like American hamburgers that makes me anti American?

'

svenivan' post='1121843' date='2007-02-05 08:35:39']Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions

I don't see him ranting about American hamburgers.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Ulysses G.

[svenivan]

Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions.

I don't know why anyone would accuse this genius of being anti-American.

Sorry to say Ulysses but you are one of them.

You could not read three sentences in a row and understand all three of them.

What I said was:

"Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions. (I don't say ALL Americans are like that!!!!!)"

Very hard to argument with guys like you and jdinasia.

Me being anti-American? Yes, I probably don't like what US are doing and have done the last 50-60 years. I don't say that I don't like the American people, many of the ones, probably most of them, I have met are great persons.

But I am not a supporter of US politics.

The totally blind support of Israel that probably is one of reasons that has created the support for Muslim extremists.

Vietnam war with bombing of millions of civilians in Vietnam and Laos.

All the support for dictators in South-America helping them removing democratic choosed leaders.

The list is long.

And most of the leaders in US has been of the type of BIG mouth and small ears.

I don't say they are stupid. I am sure they have fantastic brains but they are not smart enough to use them.

:D

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions.

I don't know why anyone would accuse this genius of being anti-American.

Sorry to say Ulysses but you are one of them.

You could not read three sentences in a row and understand all three of them.

What I said was:

"Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions. (I don't say ALL Americans are like that!!!!!)"

Very hard to argument with guys like you and jdinasia.

Me being anti-American? Yes, I probably don't like what US are doing and have done the last 50-60 years. I don't say that I don't like the American people, many of the ones, probably most of them, I have met are great persons.

In other words, some of your best friends are black - I mean American.

I hope you don't think anybody is stupid enough to read all your ignorant trash-talking about Americans in general and then buy that bullcr*p about how you love "most" Americans - and we could care less about your naive, silly views of American politics - but if it makes you feel better to lie about how you really feel, keep on jiving dude.

[sceadugenga]

Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions.

I don't know why anyone would accuse this genius of being anti-American.

Sorry to say Ulysses but you are one of them.

You could not read three sentences in a row and understand all three of them.

What I said was:

"Yes, you must be one of these Americans with BIG mouths and small ears. Never listen to what other people are saying, just shouting your own opinions. (I don't say ALL Americans are like that!!!!!)"

Very hard to argument with guys like you and jdinasia.

Me being anti-American? Yes, I probably don't like what US are doing and have done the last 50-60 years. I don't say that I don't like the American people, many of the ones, probably most of them, I have met are great persons.

But I am not a supporter of US politics.

The totally blind support of Israel that probably is one of reasons that has created the support for Muslim extremists.

Vietnam war with bombing of millions of civilians in Vietnam and Laos.

All the support for dictators in South-America helping them removing democratic choosed leaders.

The list is long.

And most of the leaders in US has been of the type of BIG mouth and small ears.

I don't say they are stupid. I am sure they have fantastic brains but they are not smart enough to use them.

:D

Well done Christians, you've got the non-Christians at each other's throats now, but I suspect this antagonism goes back a long way.

Just think, if it was the Christians falling out they'd be running off to form new sects and a whole new crop of missionaries would arrive.

[svenivan]

In other words, some of your best friends are black - I mean American.

I hope you don't think anybody is stupid enough to read all your ignorant trash-talking about Americans in general and then buy that bullcr*p about how you love "most" Americans - and we could care less about your naive, silly views of American politics - but if it makes you feel better to lie about how you really feel, keep on jiving dude.

Got you!

"I don't say they are stupid. I am sure they have fantastic brains but they are not smart enough to use them."

Did I say that? Did I refer to you? Ohhhh!

[Ulysses G.]

Don’t worry. You have illustrated to everyone just exactly how clever you really are.

[pampal]

good christians?

James and Tammy Baker

Jimmy Swaggart (spelling?)

George Bush

Jerry Fallwell(spelling?)

pat robertson

shall I go on

[Johpa]

Insensitivity and manipulation - intended or otherwise - by missionaries, especially in the past, has produced the kind of reaction we see in the above posts. This kind of activity by so-called Christian missionaries is way, way out of line with current understandings of what mission is about.

As most people would expect, and perhaps accept, contemporary understanding of mission, at least in my tradition, and probably for the past 40 years at least, has focussed on witnessing to Jesus' teaching by deeds rather than words. Hence, the building of hospitals, schools, AIDS centres and the like. However, given the opportunity, missionaries will explain their faith and, if people want to take it up, will assist them. Why would they not?

I suspect only fundamentalists see much mileage in trying to convert Buddhists or Muslims. Islam and Buddhism are sophisticated religions with a transphenomenal metaphysics. Why would they convert to Christianity? Most conversion in Thailand, I understand, has taken place in villages that have not become Buddhist, but have practised local and animistic religions. Mind you, the people don't discard their religious traditions altogether. Would you expect them to?

Let's not be too hard on the missionaries. Men like Fr Joe Meier (Mercy Centre, Klong Toey), Fr Ray Brennan (deceased: Pattaya Orphanage), the Thai Redemptorist missionaries in the North and Northeast, and others have done and still do wonderful work with the neediest and most vulnerable of people in Thailand, and they certainly don't do it as a mask for "religious imperialism". I name only the Catholic missionaries, as I don't know of others. I can understand some of the umbrage expressed above. Christians deserve to be criticised, perhaps abused, for their arrogance in the past and, in some quarters the present as well, but we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

Not being of the Christian persuasion, I tend not to enter such discussions, but I would like to point out that whilst living amongst the animist heathens in the hills up north for nearly a decade, I was always much impressed by the Catholics and always pretty disgusted by the those of the Evangelical persuasion, and alas, there seem to be more and more of the Evangelicals each year. The one Catholic priest who I got to know a bit, a man most would term a missionary, always struck me as more of just the local priest tending to the needs of his local parish, as I never saw him actively engage in prosetylization efforts towards non-believers. And it was about 10 years ago that my extended family, none of them Christian (my father-inlaw being a devout animist) , were invited to the ceremony of one of my wife's former pre-school students who became, along with one other man, the first Thai-Karens to be ordained as a priest in Thailand.

[Artisi]

How about we stay on track - the thread started out as an observation of the manipulation by so-called christians of certain elements of Thai people.

All the bible quoting from the "bible-bashers" and the criticism of the Americans doesn't change the fact that many so-called christians are only interested in winning converts at any cost and to the detriment of many.

I was fortunate or was it unfortunate some years back to be in group undertaking some training in teaching English language where 6 "born-again christians" were attending - their sole aim was to get an insight into teaching methods of teaching Thais. It was interesting to see that although they seemsed to be versed in their own religion ther were completely and utterly ignorant of the Buddhist philosophy - and were not in the least ashamed of their ingorance.

So it would seem that their only goal was to "convert" the unbelievers and save them from h_ell, nothing to do with improving their lives when it came to surviving.

[Paul MBMG]

I think that there's a big danger of too much generalisation here demeaning those who have only ever done good

I sympathise with many of the comments posted and I'd add that in my view much of the good tends to be enacted by those who indulge least in proselytising. I'd suggest that anyone who thinks that all Christian aid is bad/mind-warping/motivated by a need to convert should just send a few hours looking at some of the human situations dealt with on a daily basis by the likes of Fr. Joe Maier, the Fatima Centre @ Din Daeng and the Good Shepherd in Nong Kahe and in Pattaya. These are just incredibly good people who are religious who contribute more every day to society than many of us in a lifetime. Spend a few hours there and see teh other side of the coin. I know that it alwasy makes me feel humble and I'm no great fan of organised religion.

[michael804]

I do not mean for this topic to cause offence but this is something that genuinely concerns me. I also do not wish to make any judgements about anyone's religious beliefs, my concerns are solely to do with how religious groups recrut new members. I will understand if the moderators decide that this topic is too inflammatory and so remove it from the forum.

Oh my, how thoughtful of you to be "concerned" about offending people of faith.

For the last two and a half years I have lived in a small village in Phitsanulok province. In the local area their is a Christian missionary which is very active in the community. It offers the local children scholarships, gifts for them and their families ( an example of this was duvets last month) as well as expensive holidays. They also have many fun activities at the centre. Apparently the money for this comes from the States. The children only recieve these benefits if they attend weekly services at the Christian centre and most of the children in our village now attend.

Please give me the name of mission, so i can contribute, this sounds like a worthy tithe.

Oh wait ... there's more...

I think that this is a very unfair way of recruiting people to their religion.

Maybe you prefer that they strap a bomb to their ars, as southerners???

I also know that most of the villagers feel the same way but still send their children along anyway. Many will ask the question, why send their children? but I would imagine it is hard to turn down any financial incentives when you are poor.

So this is about your being a paid teacher in competition with free schooling?

I do know that many of the children retain their Buddhist beliefs despite attending this Christian group.

So what is the problem? No one is being brainwashed, bribed, or anything else by Christian missionaries ... just ruffling the feathers of agnostic/atheist types. Some more covert than others. It's been that way for 2,000yrs. Big Woop...

I must add that I have no contact with this group, nor would I wish to. What I know about them comes from talking to the villagers and local monk as well as from the children who I teach in the local school.

So after all ... this is merely hearsay that has you so "concerned"?

Are you so narrow-minded that you won't find out for yourself what these believers are about?

By the way ... i sure hope you aren't teaching these children the english language, or anything else foreign to their culture ... being the savior to indigenous peoples that you deem yourself to be.

I know that many of the members of this forum are probably Christian and wonder what their views are? I could be wrong, but I doubt that these missionaries use the same method in South Thailand in muslim areas.

You can attempt to be subtle if you wish, but the fact of the matter is ... since we are generalizing here ... that most posters in this forum are NOT Christian, or anything close to it.

In fact, as you can see by responders to your trolling, many are vehemently anti-Christian.

Many moved to SEA to get away from these issues that seem to confuse, and irritate them. Young women/men who will actually give them the time of day (for a price) is just a bonus isn't it? Oh ye hypocrites!

Again, I do not wish for this post to upset anyone.

Oh, how gracious of you, you emulator of good will.

[Artisi]

I think that there's a big danger of too much generalisation here demeaning those who have only ever done good

I sympathise with many of the comments posted and I'd add that in my view much of the good tends to be enacted by those who indulge least in proselytising. I'd suggest that anyone who thinks that all Christian aid is bad/mind-warping/motivated by a need to convert should just send a few hours looking at some of the human situations dealt with on a daily basis by the likes of Fr. Joe Maier, the Fatima Centre @ Din Daeng and the Good Shepherd in Nong Kahe and in Pattaya. These are just incredibly good people who are religious who contribute more every day to society than many of us in a lifetime. Spend a few hours there and see teh other side of the coin. I know that it alwasy makes me feel humble and I'm no great fan of organised religion.

I for one cannot agree more and everytime I think or hear of the likes of Fr. Joe Maier and others I feel humble that these people are out there helping. I would also like to point out that when it come to these individuals they not out to win converts but to attend to the needs of people in unfortunate circumstances.

To me this is true charity and whether they are Christian, Buddists, Muslims, atheist, non-believers, who really cares as it is done without any conditions attached.

[garro]

I do not mean for this topic to cause offence but this is something that genuinely concerns me. I also do not wish to make any judgements about anyone's religious beliefs, my concerns are solely to do with how religious groups recrut new members. I will understand if the moderators decide that this topic is too inflammatory and so remove it from the forum.

Oh my, how thoughtful of you to be "concerned" about offending people of faith.

I have already posted that it was probably a mistake to raise my concerns on this forum

For the last two and a half years I have lived in a small village in Phitsanulok province. In the local area their is a Christian missionary which is very active in the community. It offers the local children scholarships, gifts for them and their families ( an example of this was duvets last month) as well as expensive holidays. They also have many fun activities at the centre. Apparently the money for this comes from the States. The children only recieve these benefits if they attend weekly services at the Christian centre and most of the children in our village now attend.

Please give me the name of mission, so i can contribute, this sounds like a worthy tithe.

Oh wait ... there's more...

I have no idea how you can contribute to this mission

I think that this is a very unfair way of recruiting people to their religion.

Maybe you prefer that they strap a bomb to their ars, as southerners???

I also know that most of the villagers feel the same way but still send their children along anyway. Many will ask the question, why send their children? but I would imagine it is hard to turn down any financial incentives when you are poor.

So this is about your being a paid teacher in competition with free schooling?

I teach for free

I do know that many of the children retain their Buddhist beliefs despite attending this Christian group.

So what is the problem? No one is being brainwashed, bribed, or anything else by Christian missionaries ... just ruffling the feathers of agnostic/atheist types. Some more covert than others. It's been that way for 2,000yrs. Big Woop...

If you read my post I said many retain their beliefs, not all

I must add that I have no contact with this group, nor would I wish to. What I know about them comes from talking to the villagers and local monk as well as from the children who I teach in the local school.

So after all ... this is merely hearsay that has you so "concerned"?

Are you so narrow-minded that you won't find out for yourself what these believers are about?

By the way ... i sure hope you aren't teaching these children the english language, or anything else foreign to their culture ... being the savior to indigenous peoples that you deem yourself to be.

I have already answered this question in at least two other posts

I know that many of the members of this forum are probably Christian and wonder what their views are? I could be wrong, but I doubt that these missionaries use the same method in South Thailand in muslim areas.

You can attempt to be subtle if you wish, but the fact of the matter is ... since we are generalizing here ... that most posters in this forum are NOT Christian, or anything close to it.

In fact, as you can see by responders to your trolling, many are vehemently anti-Christian.

Many moved to SEA to get away from these issues that seem to confuse, and irritate them. Young women/men who will actually give them the time of day (for a price) is just a bonus isn't it? Oh ye hypocrites!

I did not troll and there have been plenty of Christian posts on this thread. Many of which made sense. My concern has nothing to do with the missionaries being Christian

Again, I do not wish for this post to upset anyone.

Oh, how gracious of you, you emulator of good will.

My post has obviously caused you great upset and for that I am genuinely sorry

Metta

[michael804]

I do not mean for this topic to cause offence but this is something that genuinely concerns me. I also do not wish to make any judgements about anyone's religious beliefs, my concerns are solely to do with how religious groups recrut new members. I will understand if the moderators decide that this topic is too inflammatory and so remove it from the forum.

Oh my, how thoughtful of you to be "concerned" about offending people of faith.

I have already posted that it was probably a mistake to raise my concerns on this forum

For the last two and a half years I have lived in a small village in Phitsanulok province. In the local area their is a Christian missionary which is very active in the community. It offers the local children scholarships, gifts for them and their families ( an example of this was duvets last month) as well as expensive holidays. They also have many fun activities at the centre. Apparently the money for this comes from the States. The children only recieve these benefits if they attend weekly services at the Christian centre and most of the children in our village now attend.

Please give me the name of mission, so i can contribute, this sounds like a worthy tithe.

Oh wait ... there's more...

I have no idea how you can contribute to this mission

I think that this is a very unfair way of recruiting people to their religion.

Maybe you prefer that they strap a bomb to their ars, as southerners???

I also know that most of the villagers feel the same way but still send their children along anyway. Many will ask the question, why send their children? but I would imagine it is hard to turn down any financial incentives when you are poor.

So this is about your being a paid teacher in competition with free schooling?

I teach for free

I do know that many of the children retain their Buddhist beliefs despite attending this Christian group.

So what is the problem? No one is being brainwashed, bribed, or anything else by Christian missionaries ... just ruffling the feathers of agnostic/atheist types. Some more covert than others. It's been that way for 2,000yrs. Big Woop...

If you read my post I said many retain their beliefs, not all

I must add that I have no contact with this group, nor would I wish to. What I know about them comes from talking to the villagers and local monk as well as from the children who I teach in the local school.

So after all ... this is merely hearsay that has you so "concerned"?

Are you so narrow-minded that you won't find out for yourself what these believers are about?

By the way ... i sure hope you aren't teaching these children the english language, or anything else foreign to their culture ... being the savior to indigenous peoples that you deem yourself to be.

I have already answered this question in at least two other posts

I know that many of the members of this forum are probably Christian and wonder what their views are? I could be wrong, but I doubt that these missionaries use the same method in South Thailand in muslim areas.

You can attempt to be subtle if you wish, but the fact of the matter is ... since we are generalizing here ... that most posters in this forum are NOT Christian, or anything close to it.

In fact, as you can see by responders to your trolling, many are vehemently anti-Christian.

Many moved to SEA to get away from these issues that seem to confuse, and irritate them. Young women/men who will actually give them the time of day (for a price) is just a bonus isn't it? Oh ye hypocrites!

I did not troll and there have been plenty of Christian posts on this thread. Many of which made sense. My concern has nothing to do with the missionaries being Christian

Again, I do not wish for this post to upset anyone.

Oh, how gracious of you, you emulator of good will.

My post has obviously caused you great upset and for that I am genuinely sorry

Metta

Don't flatter yourself LoL

It's highly unlikely that anyone of your subtle, shat-stirring ability can "upset" anyone.

Annoy ... maybe .. but upset?

You have never SEEN me "upset"

[Smilodon]

I would look at what the missionaries destroyed of the Hawaiian beliefs, traditions,culture,religion,language and even their hula dancing which they outlawed if you think the missionaries are so harmless.

Actually, the Hawaiians themselves threw off their idol worship. Human sacrifice and being in fear of some malevolent fire god gets old, fast when it's your daughter that is being sacrificed.

[lannabull]

About two years ago I also had a similar experience which is a little harder to condone. I was living with my girlfriend at an apartment complex called Bangkok Inter Place on Ramkamhaeng Soi. 24, near the university. Around the corner is a Christian church which often preaches to students at Ramkamhaeng and ABAC universities. One day I took the elevator down to the lobby to meet up with my girlfriend waiting for me, to find her very upset and yelling at a couple foriegners. Obviously I inquired what the problem was, which yielded in finding out that the missionaries had been preaching that the reason for Thailand being a poor country, with so many social problems was because the people had chosen the wrong religion, and were therefor being punished by god. They were being accompanied by a few young Thai students wearing the cross who seemed very quick to agree. My girlfriends response was that Thailand has been a Buddhist country long before foreigners ever came here, and if they don't like it, or the problems in this country then they are welcome to return back to the country which they came from.

I also agree that some Christian groups have had a positive impact on certain things, but there really needs to be some sort of check and balance imposed. Its seems more and more common for Christian missionaries to be using money and the fashion of being international to sway people in a way that just seems wrong.

To answer anothers post regarding the missionaries that stand out in front of Nana plaza preaching.. I was at a friends birthday party a couple weeks ago and they are still there. Right next to the really big American lady preaching feminism, if you can believe it... Really.

[Choscura]

I see the merit of what the christians are actually doing. there are exceptions, but most missionaries I meet here are at the very least involved in some sort of humanitarian aid of some sort, even just giving food out at a church service or teaching for free.

I can't find much fault with this format. It's the same basic format for a lot of things. you don't win the lottery until you've at least bought a ticket, and only students who go to school learn anything. if you're going to give presents like this out in a community, you may as well give them out to the people who show up and actually ask for them. people will, even here. the fact that it's a religion that has come to be pretty much despised in the west rubs across a few nerves, but so far as I can tell, theres nothing worth being too concerned about.

also, somebody's comment about any benefits coming at a heavy price (the cultural heritage) is ridiculous. if a group of people abandons one religion for another- for whatever reason- then that IS their heritage. it's just not as old as the rest of their heritage. look at buddhism, it did the same basic thing. I find it frustrating that I can't find any old (thai, not tribal) folk tales that don't have buddhist underpinnings- much less anything else in thai culture, folk tales are just an easy example- so as far as I can see, it's simply a case of pick your (cultural) poison.

[Paul MBMG]

I for one cannot agree more and everytime I think or hear of the likes of Fr. Joe Maier and others I feel humble that these people are out there helping. I would also like to point out that when it come to these individuals they not out to win converts but to attend to the needs of people in unfortunate circumstances.

To me this is true charity and whether they are Christian, Buddists, Muslims, atheist, non-believers, who really cares as it is done without any conditions attached.

well put, Artisi, wish I'd said it like that!

[gburns57au]

And God said, Let us (my italics, God said US because he is Father, Son, Holy Spirit) make man in our image, after our likeness:

So God was a monkey as there is enough evidence that present day man evolved from Apes....

[toptuan]

My girlfriends response was that Thailand has been a Buddhist country long before foreigners ever came here...

I agree with you that this is a disgusting approach by Christian preachers. However, your girlfriend's rebuttal was pretty weak. Every religion* including Buddhism, was brought here by foreigners. Instead of her knowledge of Thai history, her xenophobia glaringly came through.

*with the exception of upcountry spiritual animism, which hardly qualifies as an "organized" religion.

Edited February 5, 2007 by toptuan

[gburns57au]

What a humourous thread...

Satan was de heavened because of his love of money...gotta love that one...did they have 7-11's in 2 billion BC ???

Missionaries arent doing any harm converting kids by bribery because it doesnt break any laws....this from people who believe their own morals are beyond reproach ??

If more girls were Christian, there would be less prostitution...didnt that guy Jesus have a prostitute as a girlfriend ??

The bible has no timeline....well of course it doesnt...so nothing in it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt...some very clever authorship there ??

And this one....Thai Buddhists are indoctrinating their children to become Buddhist.....I guess the same can be said of Muslims, Catholics, Hindus and...........surprise surprise.......Christians....???

Keep it coming guys....

Edited February 5, 2007 by gburns57au

[sabaijai]

I didn't say it, HL Mencken said it. I'd say he was a sceptical realist, and a keen observer of the human condition. But not cynical and certainly not depressed,

As for me, note my signature:

"Sabaijai" is my surname, not my state of mind ...

The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.

-- H. L. Mencken, quoted in the table of contents for Impact Press (October-November 2000)

Deep within the heart of every evangelist lies the wreck of a car salesman.

-- H. L. Mencken

To sum up: 1. The cosmos is a gigantic fly-wheel making 10,000 revolutions a minute. 2. Man is a sick fly taking a dizzy ride on it. 3. Religion is the theory that the wheel was designed and set spinning to give him the ride.

-- H. L. Mencken, "Coda," in Smart Set (New York, Dec. 1920; repr. in A Mencken Chrestomathy, pt. 1, 1949).

That is about the most pessimistic, cynical, depressing post I have ever read, to date. And the poster is "Sabai jai?" With that world and life view? Incredible.