Trump ally Giuliani says end is near for Iran's rulers

[DM07]

Giuliani also said " The Queen is a bisquit!" and "Lalablahblahblub!"

[Morch]

30 minutes ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Liberation from what? Do you really think they’re an oppressed people?


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Guess it's a matter of degree. Iranians certainly do not enjoy all common place freedoms, but it's not quite the totalitarian regime some make it to be. I don't think that given a choice most would opt to keep things exactly as they are. There's quite a bit of domestic discontent, which is mostly related to economic issues, corruption and civil/human rights. Not, perhaps, at a level which directly endangers the regime at this point.

[bushdoctor]

42 minutes ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Liberation from what? Do you really think they’re an oppressed people?


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You’re kidding right? 

[TEFLKrabi]

You’re kidding right? 

Not at all. Day to day life is pretty normal for most citizens, despite what you read in your media. Under the old regime next door in Iraq, it was the same. People used to have electricity and water in abundance but no longer do, even thru summer when it’s 120°c outside.


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[bushdoctor]

1 hour ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Not at all. Day to day life is pretty normal for most citizens, despite what you read in your media. Under the old regime next door in Iraq, it was the same. People used to have electricity and water in abundance but no longer do, even thru summer when it’s 120°c outside.


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Pretty normal? Normal for who? There is a long list of oppressive behaviors in Iran. I suggest you do a little research. 

[billd766]

13 hours ago, The Theory said:

Where did you copy all these ? ?

 

Try reading my post carefully and do a Google search as I did.

 

Here is a starting point for you.

 

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Mohammad-Reza-Shah-Pahlavi

 

BTW it was in my post.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Not at all. Day to day life is pretty normal for most citizens, despite what you read in your media. Under the old regime next door in Iraq, it was the same. People used to have electricity and water in abundance but no longer do, even thru summer when it’s 120°c outside.


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However the coalition force during the 2 Iraq wars certainly changed that for the Iraqi people during that "regime change".

[TEFLKrabi]

1 hour ago, bushdoctor said:

 

Pretty normal? Normal for who? There is a long list of oppressive behaviors in Iran. I suggest you do a little research. 

I'm fortunate to work very close to Iran and with Iranian people. My research is first hand, not thru the general media. 

[bushdoctor]

16 minutes ago, TEFLKrabi said:

I'm fortunate to work very close to Iran and with Iranian people. My research is first hand, not thru the general media. 

 

Then you know about things like the stoning, raping and execution of protestors? The discrimination against ethnic communities like the Kurds and Balochs, people of the Baha’i faith? The subordinate treatment of women...who can’t even go to sporting events? The existence of a death penalty for consumption of alcohol? Death penalty or flogging of gays....because they are gay? Restrictions on freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly? The eye for an eye style of punishment under Sharia law? 

Yesh...every day stuff. 

[The Theory]

19 hours ago, stevenl said:

Do you really believe what you wrote?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/213292

[The Theory]

4 hours ago, bushdoctor said:

 

Pretty normal? Normal for who? There is a long list of oppressive behaviors in Iran. I suggest you do a little research. 

He either has no clue what he is writing or he is some kind of Iranian who wants to point everything as normal. 

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, The Theory said:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/213292

Yes, that is a good and balanced source for information on Israel's arch enemy ?.

 

How would you trust an Iranian news paper on Israel's history?

Edited July 2, 2018 by stevenl

[The Theory]

6 hours ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Liberation from what? Do you really think they’re an oppressed people?


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You have no idea what’s going on ?

[The Theory]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, that is a good and balanced source for information on Israel's arch enemy ?.

 

How would you trust an Iranian news paper on Israel's history?

Go back to sleep ?

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Go back to sleep ?

Very constructive answer, also known as trolling.

[The Theory]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Very constructive answer, also known as trolling.

What ever 

I’m not here to prove anything to you. You either open your eyes and see it or keep them closed. It is all up to you. 

 

 

[stevenl]

19 minutes ago, The Theory said:

What ever 

I’m not here to prove anything to you. You either open your eyes and see it or keep them closed. It is all up to you. 

 

 

Yes, your link doesn't prove anything, you have that right.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Yes, that is a good and balanced source for information on Israel's arch enemy ?.

 

How would you trust an Iranian news paper on Israel's history?

 

I believe it is lifted (or if charitable, based on) from this:

 

Two Weeks in January: America's secret engagement with Khomeini

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36431160

[stevenl]

Yes, looks like they based it on the BBC research, but unfortunately they did a bad job.

 

The BBC article is good and worth a read, the Israeli one is neither.

[Sir Dude]

Whilst I hope the awful theocracy that rules Iran implodes into non existence as it is a huge threat to so many things with their religious bigotry and nonsense.....I don't think this is coming around anytime soon. 

[TEFLKrabi]

 
Then you know about things like the stoning, raping and execution of protestors? The discrimination against ethnic communities like the Kurds and Balochs, people of the Baha’i faith? The subordinate treatment of women...who can’t even go to sporting events? The existence of a death penalty for consumption of alcohol? Death penalty or flogging of gays....because they are gay? Restrictions on freedom of press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly? The eye for an eye style of punishment under Sharia law? 
Yesh...every day stuff. 

Pretty much everything you quote is the same in Saudi Arabia. Why isn’t the US looking for engine change there?


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[DaddyWarbucks]

14 minutes ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Pretty much everything you quote is the same in Saudi Arabia. Why isn’t the US looking for engine change there?


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So true...

But why let obvious facts get in the way when regime change in Iran is on the agenda?

[bristolboy]

16 minutes ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Pretty much everything you quote is the same in Saudi Arabia. Why isn’t the US looking for engine change there?


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It's actually a lot worse in Saudi Arabia. Women have it worse, other religions have it worse, much less tolerance of dissent, not even a hint of democracy..

[The Theory]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution

[bushdoctor]

5 hours ago, TEFLKrabi said:

Pretty much everything you quote is the same in Saudi Arabia. Why isn’t the US looking for engine change there?


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I was responding to your false claim that everything is normal in Iran. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by bushdoctor

[thaiguzzi]

This is the 21st century.

Who, what and why gives the USA or any other ex colonial Western power, but especially the USA, the right to get involved in other country's problems.

 Regime change? What right does the USA have to even utter this phrase?

Vietnam, Middle East, they just never learn.

Imbeciles and warmongerers.

And always a bunch of politicians having a nice earner out of a war... Or regime change...

Anybody watched the movie Syriana?

[billd766]

3 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

This is the 21st century.

Who, what and why gives the USA or any other ex colonial Western power, but especially the USA, the right to get involved in other country's problems.

 Regime change? What right does the USA have to even utter this phrase?

Vietnam, Middle East, they just never learn.

Imbeciles and warmongerers.

And always a bunch of politicians having a nice earner out of a war... Or regime change...

Anybody watched the movie Syriana?

 

TBH if it comes to a real war and I truly hope that it will not, then Iran will lose.

 

They are willing to fight to the final ending if needs be and the cost will be very high. Having said that however, the cost to the USA in manpower , to its puppet master Israel, and to the USA puppet Saudi Arabia will be even higher.

 

It may even end up as nuclear warfare but given the proximity of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, all the countries bordering the Arab Gulf, northern Africa, Turkey Greece etc It is unlikely.

 

Winning the ground war in Iran will be hard and painful but keeping the peace will be harder and more expensive still. The invaders will need to occupy Iran for decades and the Iranians will be hostile. 

 

The west and the UN would I hope step in long before anything like this happens.

 

If the Straits of Hormuz are closed NO oil will come from the Gulf states to the west which would give them the extra incentive to stop Trump before he gets serious.

[Morch]

23 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

TBH if it comes to a real war and I truly hope that it will not, then Iran will lose.

 

They are willing to fight to the final ending if needs be and the cost will be very high. Having said that however, the cost to the USA in manpower , to its puppet master Israel, and to the USA puppet Saudi Arabia will be even higher.

 

It may even end up as nuclear warfare but given the proximity of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, all the countries bordering the Arab Gulf, northern Africa, Turkey Greece etc It is unlikely.

 

Winning the ground war in Iran will be hard and painful but keeping the peace will be harder and more expensive still. The invaders will need to occupy Iran for decades and the Iranians will be hostile. 

 

The west and the UN would I hope step in long before anything like this happens.

 

If the Straits of Hormuz are closed NO oil will come from the Gulf states to the west which would give them the extra incentive to stop Trump before he gets serious.

 

Posturing aside, I seriously doubt the Iranian regime is "willing to fight to the final ending" (whatever that stands for). As for the populace, they don't seem invested in this, focus nowadays being more on economic troubles and government failures.

 

As for "it may even end up as nuclear warfare" - not really. The US does not need to employ nuclear weapons in any related scenario, and Iran doesn't have any.

 

And "winning a ground war"? There isn't even much talk about a "ground war". Most references relate mostly to aerial attacks etc., not "boots on the ground" (special forces operations notwithstanding).

 

The "West" seems unable to effectively deal with Trump. There's no unity, and not a whole lot of leadership there. The same goes for the UN, even more so. "Step in"? Really.

 

If Iran will be so foolish as to try and block the Straits of Hormuz, it will mostly serve to make the US's "point" (and let thee "black flag" nonsense commence).

 

Worth revisiting some of them not too-old topics dealing with US-NK relations. Gives some perspective.

[sirineou]

It's Giuliani says it it must be true

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Posturing aside, I seriously doubt the Iranian regime is "willing to fight to the final ending" (whatever that stands for). As for the populace, they don't seem invested in this, focus nowadays being more on economic troubles and government failures.

 

As for "it may even end up as nuclear warfare" - not really. The US does not need to employ nuclear weapons in any related scenario, and Iran doesn't have any.

 

And "winning a ground war"? There isn't even much talk about a "ground war". Most references relate mostly to aerial attacks etc., not "boots on the ground" (special forces operations notwithstanding).

 

The "West" seems unable to effectively deal with Trump. There's no unity, and not a whole lot of leadership there. The same goes for the UN, even more so. "Step in"? Really.

 

If Iran will be so foolish as to try and block the Straits of Hormuz, it will mostly serve to make the US's "point" (and let thee "black flag" nonsense commence).

 

Worth revisiting some of them not too-old topics dealing with US-NK relations. Gives some perspective.

 

I have to disagree with you on some points.

 

The Iranian people may well have a problem internally but I really believe that they will be united against an "outside' country like the USA.

 

Nuclear weapons, well Israel has plenty and though not willing to use them they still have that option as their military, whilst effective is still quite small in numbers and has not really been tested for a few years.

 

The problem with an aerial war is that you can win a battle but you cannot hold what you have won without boots on the ground. Two prime examples are Iraq 1 and 2 and Afghanistan. In Iraq 1 the west were united and wiped out most of the Iraqi forces with air power but still had to use tens of thousands of troops. That was back in the 1990s and Iraq is still rumbling on.

 

Afghanistan is pretty much the same and both of them suck in troops and material.

 

IMHO Trump will have NO support from the west or the UN if he attacks Iran, not even overflight permission from the EU and the UK.

 

I am sure that he will supported by his followers though I am not sure if the House and the Senate will back him. I am also not sure if all the military will support him either even though as POTUS he does have the authority to do so.

 

To be truthful IMHO, Trump is a disaster on legs for the USA and the world.