Growing On Chickens

[Bicko]

Does anyone have any experience with growing on chickens? A number of farmers in my area (Lam Plai mat/Buri ram) buy week old chicks and grow them on for 30 to 35 days then sell back to the supplier of the young chicks.

Anyone got any ideas or suggestions on this one?

[teletiger]

I would have thought in today's climate (bird flu...etc) that unless you were very careful and meticulous about biosecurity (i.e. expensive to set up) then the risk is very high. Even then, if someone in your Moo Baan with 10 chickens, contracts bird flu in his stock, the authorities will more than likely slaughter all your birds too.

Regards

[Bicko]

I would have thought in today's climate (bird flu...etc) that unless you were very careful and meticulous about biosecurity (i.e. expensive to set up) then the risk is very high. Even then, if someone in your Moo Baan with 10 chickens, contracts bird flu in his stock, the authorities will more than likely slaughter all your birds too.

Regards

Thanks mate. I am very aware of this matter and will make due allowance for it if and when i proceed with the project. Does anyone have any info on relative costs, sources of supply of young chickens, source, formula and cost of chicken feed, cost of building evaporative cooled sheds, recommended size and construction type for sheds and any other relevant onformation.

[RamdomChances]

Nearly all of the big chicken farms are tied into one of the big agrro companies ( CP, Sara Farms ect) You get you chick's from them and they are then returned to the factory 35 days later, your paid for the difference in weight from when you buy to when you sell. They will have detailed plans of the chicken sheds with costs. If I remember correctly your looking about 1.5 million bhat for a 12-15,000 chicken shed. There is a 10 day delay before you get your new chicks for cleaning/airing the shed so it's a 45day cycle.

The big companies will also help with loans, the downside is you are totaly tied to them in buying feed ect. Basicaly they are just farming the risk out if the chickens are culled or dont gain much weight then it's your problem not theirs. I used to know someone with a 15,000 shed he reconed he made about 20,000 bhat a cycle but I can't attest to the accuracy of those figures. Since the outbrake of birv flu the big companies have been pushing pig farming quite a bit

[bina]

rc,

we do that not in thailand of course:

we get the chicks, they ar put in the shed at 30degree c.; there are three different feeds which change per week, one iwht stuff against coccidiosis in it and is fine textured.extended daylite lighting is set up on an automatic timer since u 'buy' time /growth.

as for biosecurity. here, the guys working the chicks shower change clothes and do shoe dip before entering the shed, no cars etc allowed in area near buildings, and after the chickens are marketed, the buildings are cleaned and fumigated with some nasty stuff, sealed and then aired before the next batch. we were near an avian flue farm (within the 50 flying meter circle) but because of the biosecurity stuff we didnt have to cull ours (last year i wrote about that way back when....)... the cycle is a month +2 wks.; then chickens get sent to the lab, results come back and they are marketed.

i would expect thailand chicken farming would work the same way. its not labour intensive if the feeders/water system are automatic. just culling the dead bodies, fixing break downs, and the marketing part/cleaning/fumigation part need a crew. for too hot climates, a sprinkler system is needed or the chickens die. it does seem eaiser than pigs to me. more managable. we compost the dead chickens/chicken shit and use it in the orchards after the compost is mature.

i think they use baytril 10%oral in the water (braod spectrum antibiotic) as preventative up unti certain time before marketing also.

wouldnt the thai local extension service have info??... its pretty straigth forward when it works. when it doesnt, well... agriculture and animal husbandry.... (one of our sheds had an electical fire and the whole thing burnt down, including the feed storage bins.) just to give u an idea of problems. an other time, the compost heap self ignited (a common problem with solutions). dont know if that stuff happens in thailand, but here it happens all the time.

bina

i wouldnt want that in my back yard though.

Edited February 5, 2007 by bina

[RamdomChances]

Bina it works more or less exactly the same in regaurds to biosecurity, at least with the big farms. My BiL runs chicken food to load of them and they are pretty tight. They don't use sprinklers as far as I know here but evoporated air conditioning, they have big fans on one end of the shed with large wet membrains in front of them, apparently this drops the temp of the shed significuntly and is much cheaper than normal "air con".

You could probaly get info from "thai local extension service" but I think the problem would be that to open a farmlarge enough to make a decent return you'd have to have a relable market for the chickens and the big boys have thet pretty much sow up (we're talking 10-20,000 chickens a month here).

A lot of chicken farms have fish ponds as well, many used to be built above a fish pond and the chicken shit fell directly into the pond to be ate by the fish. I think they have stoped this practice now, or at least your not allowed to do it if you sign a contract with one of the agrro companies. Many still have Pla Chon ponds, Pla Chon are meat eaters so they grind the dead chickens up and feed them to the fish.

[bina]

well, today i forgot to ask our chicken guy some stuff BUT he did tell us that the avian flu is coming in our direction AGAIN from egypt and the palestinain territiries SO they now will have a truck sprayer sitting on the access road to the coops, to spray any cars coming in to the area also. they will be using 'vicirol' i think he said (we were discussing formalin ammonia or other sprays). this vicirol is supposed to be the cat's meow for avian flu prevention. (we are using the chicken coop's car and they have ours hence all the discussions with this guy for going in and out of the coop area).

he also told me that they give the chickens probiotics and since they have been using probiotics on the chickens AND also adding somehting to the water to soften it to between 4.5 and 6 ph. this way it doesnt kill off bacterias that come from the probiotics that the chickens are getting. the probiotics help the chickens fight off disease, help weight gain (or prevent weight loss due to stress maybe) and they give them probiotics before the marketing night (tonite is chicken catching nite for instance) to reduce stress related deaths (and increase live sales of course. not done cause they love their chickens except as schnitzels). i think this probiotics idea is in place of the baytril 10% that the chickens used to get in their water. healthy for us too.

so learned some new stuff today. dont know if this helps anyone in thailand but thought i'd pass it on anyway. not everyday u get to talk to professional chikcen growers (40,000- 50,000) per cycle i think we do.

i could find out the exact name of the avian flu disinfectant if someone is interested. the guy did say is was very expensive (relative to a kibbutznik of course ) but apperently worth it. will see him next week after the marketing and we can go to the coops again. they've also stopped using fomalin as fumigant as it just became against the law this month. (spraying formalin in the coops after the marketing as a defumigation before the next batch of chicks arrives). formalin was considered the number one de- everything chemical , but very nasty as u all know.

bina

israel

[chownah]

Bina,

I used to work in the pathology dept at a research hospital and as you know we used alot of formalin since it is the typical embalming fluid used for corpses and tissues. We never used it for serilisation though...for sterilization we used chlorine bleach solution....so....have they considered using bleach solution?....maybe too corrosive?

Chownah

[bina]

chlorine was never used as it doesnt work on many of the zoonoses; dont have the list in front of me now, but also the big zoo recommended ammonia based cleansing things and not chlorine. formalin has been used in the egg and poultry industry as far back as i am in israel (22 years +) ALL the farms all over the country. not sure why.

ok, looked it up and this is the WHY of it all; and the reason the big zoo said NO to chlorine bleach.

Cleaning and Disinfection of Poultry Facilities

VME-013-02

John C. Gordon, D.V.M., MPH

Associate Professor, Veterinary Preventive Medicine

Teresa Y. Morishita, D.V.M., Ph.D.

Extension Poultry Veterinarian and Associate Professor

Having an effective cleaning and disinfection program is a crucial step in every poultry-biosecurity program. A cleaning and disinfection program should be instituted after a poultry building has been depopulated and before restocking occurs on the farm. The main purpose of a cleaning and disinfection program is to reduce the number of pathogens (disease-causing agents) in the environment. By reducing pathogen numbers, we can reduce the potential for diseases to occur in our poultry flock.

What disease agents should we be concerned about?

The disease agents we are concerned about include viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites. It is important to identify the pathogens we want to eliminate, as certain disinfectants are ineffective against certain disease agents. Hence, to maximize an effective cleaning and disinfection program, it is important to identify what disease agent(s) we want to eliminate or reduce on the farm.

What is the first step in a cleaning and disinfection program?

The first step in any cleaning and disinfection program is cleaning. Cleaning is the physical removal of organic material (i.e., manure, blood, feed, and carcasses). It is important to remove these organic materials before the disinfection process begins because disease agents are often protected in these materials and can survive the disinfection process. Hence, it is important to thoroughly clean a building before the disinfection process. The cleaning process can include a dry cleaning and a wet cleaning step.

What are the differences between dry cleaning and wet cleaning?

Dry cleaning involves the physical removal of organic material, such as the removal of feed, litter, and manure. The process of dry cleaning physically removes the organic material before the actual wet cleaning can occur. Wet cleaning, as its name implies, involves the use of water. There are four basic steps in the wet cleaning process — soaking, washing, rinsing, and drying. Although not necessary, detergents (wetting agents) can be used in the wet cleaning process. However, it is more important to have pressure washers with the proper pressure (500-800 psi) to ensure all the organic materials are removed from the facilities.

The final step of ensuring a proper clean-up is having the wet areas of the building dried quickly. If the building is not dried properly, the excess moisture can result in bacteria multiplying to higher levels than seen before cleaning. Thus, if you are going to clean, make sure the cleaning procedure is done properly, as an improper cleaning can actually do more harm than good! If done properly, a good cleaning can remove 90% of the pathogens.

What do I do after cleaning?

The last step in a cleaning and disinfection program is the disinfection process. This process involves the use of a disinfectant that will reduce or kill the pathogens. There are several types of disinfectants, and the one chosen should be effective against the disease agent(s) you are targeting. What are the main types of disinfectants that can be used?

The main types of disinfectants that can be used are:

* aldehydes (i.e., formalin, formaldehyde, and glutaraldehyde)

* chlorine-releasing agents (i.e., sodium hypochlorite, chlorine dioxide, sodium dichloroisocyanurate, and chloramine-T)

* iodophors (i.e., povidone-iodine and poloxamer-iodine)

* phenols and bis-phenols (i.e., triclosan and hexachlorophene)

* quaternary ammonium compounds

* peroxygens (i.e., hydrogen peroxide and peracetic acid).

Aldehydes, like formalin and formaldehyde, are considered sterilants, are carcinogenic, and require special precautions. Peroxygens, at the recommended dilution for their use, are caustic and dangerous. Some of the newer formulations of peroxygens and peracetic acid compounds are becoming more utilized because of the European foot-and-mouth disease outbreaks in 2001. Some of these compounds are considered non-irritants and are approved for specific uses. It is suggested that one should always follow the recommended usage provided by the manufacturer.

How susceptible are the disease-causing agents to various disinfectants?

Disinfectants are effective against bacteria, viruses, and fungi. Disinfectants were not designed to be effective against parasites. In general, the descending order of resistance of disease agents is:

1. spores (i.e., clostrial diseases like botulism) and acid-fast bacteria (i.e., mycobacteria like Mycobacterium avium [avian tuberculosis])

2. gram-negative bacteria (i.e., Pseudomonas, E. coli, Salmonella)

3. fungi (i.e., Candida [crop mycosis] and Aspergillus [aspergillosis])

4. non-enveloped viruses (i.e., enteroviruses and adenoviruses)

5. gram-positive bacteria (i.e., Staphylococcus aureus)

6. lipid enveloped viruses (i.e., avian influenza virus).

Thus, spore-forming bacteria are harder to destroy by disinfectants than viruses. Table 1 illustrates the effectiveness of the different disinfectant groups against the various classes of avian pathogens. Avian parasites (i.e., lice, mites, and endoparasites) are best treated using insecticides or by means of parasiticides. However, it has been reported that ammonia and phenolic disinfectants have been effective in reducing the numbers of coccidial oocysts.

Are there certain conditions that can affect the effectiveness of disinfectants?

Yes, there are certain conditions that can maximize the effectiveness of the disinfectants you use. As mentioned earlier, the presence of organic material can influence the cleaning and disinfection program. Other factors include temperature, pH, and the use of soaps or detergents. Table 2 illustrates the effect of different factors on disinfectant effectiveness.

Conclusion

The key to a proper cleaning and disinfection program is that both cleaning and disinfection should occur. Cleaning should be done properly by following both dry and wet processing steps. Remember that an improper cleaning actually does more harm than good. In addition, the disinfection program should use the correct disinfectant for the disease agent you want to eliminate from the farm. With these two principles in mind, you can develop your own cleaning and disinfection program and help keep your flocks healthy.

References

Seymore S. Block. 2001. Disinfection, Sterilization, and Preservation. 5th Ed. Lippincott, Williams, & Williams, Philadelphia, Pa.

A. D. Russell, V. S. Yarnych, and A. V. Koulikovskii, Eds. 1984. Guidelines on Disinfection in Animal Husbandry for Prevention and Control of Zoonotic Diseases. World Health Organization (Veterinary Public Health Unit), Geneva, Switzerland.

W. Stellmacher. 1966. The Testing of Heavy-Duty Disinfectants Against Bacteria. National Veterinary Medicine Testing Institute, Berlin, pp. 547-575.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/vme-fact/0013.html

http://msucares.com/poultry/diseases/solutions.html

found the list i was given by the zoo: http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/poultry/pfs4.pdf ;

hope that answers your question a bit. i'm not a poulty person; caprines are my thing but now that i just researched up this stuff, am adding it to my procedures handbook i'm haveing to write up for our petting zoo; new boss, new rules .

bina

israel

edit: found the name of the stuff we are using (recommended by the chicken vet from our extension service, i'm not promoting the stuff, FYIONLY) : called VIROCID http://www.avian-influenza-disinfectant.com/

obviously have no idea if effective or not but thats what we (our coops) are using as part of their biosecurity effort.

Edited February 7, 2007 by bina

[dong]

Nearly all of the big chicken farms are tied into one of the big agrro companies ( CP, Sara Farms ect) You get you chick's from them and they are then returned to the factory 35 days later, your paid for the difference in weight from when you buy to when you sell. They will have detailed plans of the chicken sheds with costs. If I remember correctly your looking about 1.5 million bhat for a 12-15,000 chicken shed. There is a 10 day delay before you get your new chicks for cleaning/airing the shed so it's a 45day cycle.

The big companies will also help with loans, the downside is you are totaly tied to them in buying feed ect. Basicaly they are just farming the risk out if the chickens are culled or dont gain much weight then it's your problem not theirs. I used to know someone with a 15,000 shed he reconed he made about 20,000 bhat a cycle but I can't attest to the accuracy of those figures. Since the outbrake of birv flu the big companies have been pushing pig farming quite a bit

Here in australia we keep them for up to about 8 weeks. some will be processed earlier, a 35 week old bird would'nt be much bigger than a sparrow, these would be for the likes of kfc etc. We have poultry sheds that range in size from 20,000 to 50,000 bird capicity

[Pink Mist]

here in South Oz, more specifically around Pt Wakefield area they run 250,000 chooks per shed, the growers get around 10 cents per chook and the cycle is 45 days, my company supplies the back up generators for them.

[dong]

here in South Oz, more specifically around Pt Wakefield area they run 250,000 chooks per shed, the growers get around 10 cents per chook and the cycle is 45 days, my company supplies the back up generators for them.

FXXk bronco they must be Big sheds,, you sure thats not the total number of birds on the farm, I fit out the sheds with all the feeding. drinking, cooling system's (tunnell ventalated sheds) we have just finished 12.. 600ft long x 65ft wide ,These shed"s are capable of taking 50.000 plus chickens,