I keep visualising the lyrics of Teddy Bear's Picnic;

 '...in for a big surprise...', that which went terribly wrong...

Edited July 6, 20188 yr by tifino

1 minute ago, DM07 said:

That is your ...are you serious?

Going into and underground cave in the middle of the rainy season is the same as the roof of cinema collapsing?

General consensus says, that is absolute nonsense!

I am not the one trying to derail this topic!

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I am not the one trying to derail this topic!

 

... rails would be really handy right now! for moving all those tanks...

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I am not the one trying to derail this topic!

The topic is the responsibility of the coach!

Having another opinion from your opinion is not "derailing the topic"!

9 minutes ago, DM07 said:

That story has been proven false by now!

That was the headcoach, who was informed by the parents, but could not get into the caves anymore, as they were flooded already!

Never saw that.

News changes constantly so we are probably wise to not to comment such as I did.

Just now, duanebigsby said:

Never saw that.

News changes constantly so we are probably wise to not to comment such as I did.

We are one big family, looking out for each other!

Didn;t mean to shun you - just set things straight! 

?

 

The  sign at entrance says July not enter ( Warning ) , they went in June 23rd...why crucify the coach . Maybe coach was a  little  stupid for taking in there in the first place, ..Their were NO intent of harm….But He saved them...Just think what if he had not been there? ? He is presently the one in  the worse condition, gave all food and water to the boys. He saved those boys lives, , further more officials should have Gated the entrance  knowing the risk long ago…They be the ones should be held accountable...

.

2 minutes ago, yrag said:

The  sign at entrance says July not enter ( Warning ) , they went in June 23rd...why crucify the coach . Maybe coach was a  little  stupid for taking in there in the first place, ..Their were NO intent of harm….But He saved them...Just think what if he had not been there? ? He is presently the one in  the worse condition, gave all food and water to the boys. He saved those boys lives, , further more officials should have Gated the entrance  knowing the risk long ago…They be the ones should be held accountable...

.

You are absolutely correct and most people would agree with you, but some people on here have egos bigger than the cave entrance.

IMO, they should get them all out first before anything is considered further and the full story is known. However, certain entities are guilty of negligence...including the maybe the coach, depending on the circumstances, plus whoever is in charge of the caves, as at this time of year (the monsoon season) it should have had blocked access to this "attraction" due to the dangerous situation during this part of the year regarding rain and water level.

 

Are you saying that anyone, at any time, can enter this potentially dangerous site as and when they see fit? Surely not. There is obviously a systematic failure here and it seems that it will be glossed over in the media circus as the end game is so headline grabbing and I bet nothing will be diagnosed as to why/how this happened...just that it will be turned into a tourist attraction due to the exposure and cynicism of the locals.

 

Pfft.

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are absolutely correct and most people would agree with you, but some people on here have egos bigger than the cave entrance.

Yeah...but we forgive you for it! ?

1 hour ago, Eligius said:

I don't think DM07 and some others are being sanctimonious or claiming that they have never made a mistake in their lives. I think that they are ultimately pointing out that all too often in Thailand people display very little forethought or critical thinking, both about the present and the future. This can lead those Thais and other persons into huge problems.

 

Also, I myself would say that if a person is brought up in a culture where critical and analytical thinking are actively discouraged (try displaying critical thinking in public before Prayut and see where that gets you!), then the majority of the population are likely never to have developed that skill in their daily lives. 'Thinking ahead' is one area where Thais are not naturally adept (think of Thai driving style on the roads here!)... 

 

...In the case of one individual, an error of judgement can easily be made in such a non-analytical, non-forward thinking culture as found in Thailand. That individual need not be castigated. And if that individual then does his utmost to remedy his mistake, even to sacrifice himself to save those who are with him, this surely counts for a great deal.

 

 

I normally don't engage in bickering... But I'd like to respond to your sympathetic post. I judge, but I don't condemn. A difference maybe too astute for some. I feel for the young coach, making a grievious mistake this early in life that as things progress might become an impossible burden to bear, if you catch my drift. However, I don't remember a time when growing up, Mom and Dad ever told me, if you ever go jump off a cliff (or go into a flood-prone deep cave in rainy season) don't drag your little siblings along. I just instinctively knew that's not a good idea and that's I shouldn't do it. It might not have kicked in when I was 8 or 9. But it probably started around 12, and by 25 there's simply no ambivalence about it. I think that's what you called critical thinking. I would go further and call that a moral compass (that among other things, includes the notion that the well being of those under your charge should come first and foremost.) How some folks got it, and some don't, that's what you were trying here to explain, especially in the context of the local culture. I really appreciated that, and Thanks,

4 hours ago, DM07 said:

Because the sign at the cave -entrance said, the cave is dangerous from July to November and he went in on 23rd of June!

 

The one who put that sign at the entrance of the cave is responsible for all this imo.

 

The sign should have been "no entrance, life danger" .

 

 

Since this was an organized activity, what was the process of informing parents of this outing? Is the culture so casual and informal, that people in supervisory roles can just make unilateral decisions and abscond with one's child? The coach is nothing but a product of his environment and the culture. The bigger issue is looking at accountability at multiple levels

 

This issue/event is very different than four friends going off and drowning in a pond (quite common here and parents unaware where their kids are/inherent dangers) 

 

It would be interesting to know if any kids elected not to go on the outing and why? 

 

I hope they do a thorough analysis so they can learn from it, turn it into a teaching tool and prevent other tragedies. 

2 hours ago, ThreeEyedRaven said:

Well I see posts here from DM07, Cardinalblue and smo who obviously have never made a single mistake in their life, given the sanctimonious nature of their posts. Does any one of you think that coach would have taken himself, let alone the boys too, if he had the slightest sense that any of this shit was going to happen? The timing was millions to one, and yet it happened. I think it would be harsh to even call it an error of judgment, they had absolutely no inclination whatsoever this was even possible, let alone likely. From all that I have read about this, his actions once the problem came on them are the reason we have 13 people trapped, not 13 people dead. Laying blame from the comfort of your armchair, when none of us would be likely to show the courage and steadfastness he has shown is pretty low. Those who blame him should go take a look at themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they are even half the man the coach is?

"The timing was millions to one, and yet it happened "

 

lol you would make a lousy bookie . a million to one that there would be heavy rain around beginning rainy season? try 5 to 1 max !!! 

 

 

1 minute ago, BangkokSausage said:

"The timing was millions to one, and yet it happened "

 

lol you would make a lousy bookie . a million to one that there would be heavy rain around beginning rainy season? try 5 to 1 max !!! 

 

 

Maybe the coach had no training as a bookmaker.

35 minutes ago, vogie said:

Maybe the coach had no training as a bookmaker.

His training days are over ?

20 minutes ago, BangkokSausage said:

His training days are over ?

Care to elaborate?

"Thainet". Must be the new and improved Internet 4.0, just like in China.

Its perplexing why a football team would want to walk 7km inside the bowels of a mountain when they should be kicking balls and practising set pieces.

7 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Its perplexing why a football team would want to walk 7km inside the bowels of a mountain when they should be kicking balls and practising set pieces.

I read about in it in western media, cant remember which one but do remember it was some type of "ceremony" where they go into the bowels and deal with the fear to write there names on a wall.

 

Idiotic if its a true but it does start to make a bit of sense ,after all they didn't go there to have a picnic lunch

 

edit

http://uk.businessinsider.com/thai-cave-team-got-trapped-during-initiation-ceremony-gone-wrong-diver-says-2018-7

 

 

Edited July 6, 20188 yr by BangkokSausage

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

Care to elaborate?

AWWWW you cant figure it out...How sweet ?

The cave shouldve been closed by the government during rainy season, just like all the mountainous hiking trails. Theres your blame.


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5 hours ago, BangkokSausage said:

I read about in it in western media, cant remember which one but do remember it was some type of "ceremony" where they go into the bowels and deal with the fear to write there names on a wall.

 

Idiotic if its a true but it does start to make a bit of sense ,after all they didn't go there to have a picnic lunch

Kids going into caves and writing their name on the wall , how extraordinary .

5 hours ago, eldragon said:

The cave shouldve been closed by the government during rainy season, just like all the mountainous hiking trails. Theres your blame.

*I Blame the Government *

Every cave in the World cannot be closed off during rainy season

6 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Its perplexing why a football team would want to walk 7km inside the bowels of a mountain when they should be kicking balls and practising set pieces.

Are you mad ?

Going into that cave has quite possible gotton them to a World Cup final in Moscow

I read somewhere it was one of the kids' birthdays and they wanted to go, as well as about the initiation ritual. It's also reputed to be a haunted cave... kids love getting themselves into these kind of scrapes. I suspect this was far from an organised activity, more likely the kids were pestering to go and the coach agreed and went along to supervise them.

The question no one is asking, and I haven't seen any info to say yes or no, is the following question:

 

Did this coach have the parent's permission to take those boys into the cave?  Nuts to whether the sign said June or July that it was unsafe, did he have permission and did the parent's know their kids were going into that cave?

 

My son goes to a Thai school that teaches all in English.  I can't get these idiots to communicate anything to me.  I pay the bills.  I want to know if the school knew as well?

23 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Going into that cave has quite possible gotton them to a World Cup final in Moscow

I really hope they make it out safely and it happens. The worldwide support for these kids is incredible, just saw Jurgen Klopp's heartfelt video message too. You'll never walk alone! 

12 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

it's a tunnel vision mentality combined with a lack of acountability/lost of face culture...

I agree with those assertions.  And later if somebody blames him publicly he will probably sue for hurting his character.  Sadly, I bet the full story will never come out as to why the heck they went so far in?  Did they even have flashlights?  I saw kids in flip flops and bare feet. Did they have any foot wear even remotely appropriate for walking in a dark cave?  Did they get lost and totally disoriented and just kept going?  I hope the older kids can speak freely when this is over and they get out

6 hours ago, BangkokSausage said:

AWWWW you cant figure it out...How sweet ?

No I can't, neither can you by the looks of it, but nice try.