7 hours ago, Slip said:

 

Ghoulish as ever.  This behaviour goes way back. Just stop it!

Actually, I'm not the only one that has complained. 

Everyone can talk about what they want as long as it's on topic and within forum rules. Such as calling people names "ghoulish" would not be acceptable under forum rules. So you just stop that now. 

9 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Yes

Because tomorrow they will do 4 & then the Doc / coach & others will come out 

No, because the coach will levitate his way out of the cave without the need for an air tank!

19 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Actually, I'm not the only one that has complained. 

Everyone can talk about what they want as long as it's on topic and within forum rules. Such as calling people names "ghoulish" would not be acceptable under forum rules. So you just stop that now. 

Whilst I tend to agree, (and I am a believer in freedom of speech) there have been times as this amazing and compelling story has reached its climaxes that a certain amount of arguing and frankly "grandstanding" over pendantic points (air/oxygen bottles, nationalities involved, medical decisions etc) have very much got in the way. Many here have been dipping in when able, using TVF  as a news feed. This squabbling has made it more difficult to use for this purpose

We are supposedly mature(very?) people, so a degree of self moderation should be imposed, the moderators should, and rightly  have stepped in when that has failed to happen.

 

When the rescue is over, then great, we can go back to reasoned debate, and even name calling!

59 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Actually, I'm not the only one that has complained. 

Everyone can talk about what they want as long as it's on topic and within forum rules. Such as calling people names "ghoulish" would not be acceptable under forum rules. So you just stop that now. 

Thanks for that. I and a few other here, take an interest in this topic because it is an amazing cave diving challenge, involving something never don before: getting a group of absolute beginners, weakened by their long stay underground,  through challenging terrain. I am sorry but I find all dimensions of this problem fascinating, cave diving, project coordination, communication, psychology, etc. absolutely fascinating. I don't feel pedantic here nor would I accept that any of my rare posts was "off topic", unlike some of the old men's babbling I could read here.

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

I personally am not interested, but it's a chat site and if that's what another person feels like discussing then that's there right. Acusing people of stupidity, nonsense, and rubbish just because you don't feel like talking about that topic is abusive to posters that are exercising their rights. 

Some people like to focus on small details of weight or air, or the precipitation in the area. 

So you get over it. 

Did you  notice the word repetitive - guess not. 

So get with it. 

There definitely needed to be a news only thread for this event.

Also a, I know more than you about scuba, geology, gas mixtures, the Chliean mine rescue, butt warts and so on thread.

6 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

There definitely needed to be a news only thread for this event.

Also a, I know more than you about scuba, geology, gas mixtures, the Chliean mine rescue, butt warts and so on thread.

This is TVF, a bunch of bored old guys bumping their gums endlessly.

If you want news about the rescue, do as I do. Tune in to Thai PBS, BBC, CNN. Leave the news to the experts.

7 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

You should listen to your own advice.

" This thread was designed for positive, facts and up to date news.  stop wasting space with your <chat,. its not a chat"

Well said.

Since some are allowed to chat and others are considered stupid if they join in . I guess it depends who you are. Even on tv. 

2 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Well said.

Since some are allowed to chat and others are considered stupid if they join in . I guess it depends who you are. Even on tv. 

Especially on TVF.

27 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Did you  notice the word repetitive - guess not. 

So get with it. 

It's up to them. It's important to them, in their minds. They will tire of it by themselves. Everyone is not the same. 

I understand that. 

So I am with it. 

12 minutes ago, greenchair said:

 

Since some are allowed to chat and others are considered stupid if they join in . I guess it depends who you are. Even on tv. 

With internet, and by extension TVF, everyone is equal, hiding behind an avatar, free to show one's true nature...

 

Yet, anonymity doesn't really change what is generally observed in the real world:

 

- a very large silent majority: the more than 290,000 out of 300,000 members who never post

 

- a group of bullies: those who "know" and harass those who don't

 

- a group of bullied: the ignorant stupids who should stop posting

 

The bullies "know" because they say so with bold and definitive statements, considered enough to make their point without having to demonstrate anything.

 

Fortunately, most of the bullied are not intimidated and rightfully react, something that would not happen in the real world, and one of the advantages of an anonymous discussion where the bullies cannot impress the bullied with their status, physical appearance, or even threats...

 

Now let's get back to the topic of this thread...what was that anyway? Ah, yes, air tanks!

 

To some if us more scientific types, experienced divers too the difference between using "oxygen" and poisonous bottles matters.  100% oxygen is deadly to humans.  Would be ok if they said nitrogen tanks? Arsine tanks?  Yes I've worked extensively with both gases. It's called chemistry.    There is also a big technical difference in equipment and skill level required to fill these different gases.   I'm sure some O2 tanks have been used.  Just like that for football players on the sidelines.   But going under water and breathing 100% oxygen for more than a short time is deadly.   These types of errors seem serious to me and when reported incorrectly in the press bug me and causes me to question the entire article.   The weight of the tanks was an appropriate question by those thinking of the logistics involved.  I can tell you those tanks get heavy in Just 100 meters on level ground. 

 

Hope today is the day that they all get out and then Thai seals clean up the cave and in a day or two all are safe and the gate is welded on so only approved groups can enter this cave in the future.   I can see this becoming a pretty big tourist attraction complete with dual pricing.  

11 minutes ago, Elkski said:

To some if us more scientific types, experienced divers too the difference between using "oxygen" and poisonous bottles matters.  100% oxygen is deadly to humans.  Would be ok if they said nitrogen tanks? Arsine tanks?  Yes I've worked extensively with both gases. It's called chemistry.    There is also a big technical difference in equipment and skill level required to fill these different gases.   I'm sure some O2 tanks have been used.  Just like that for football players on the sidelines.   But going under water and breathing 100% oxygen for more than a short time is deadly.   These types of errors seem serious to me and when reported incorrectly in the press bug me and causes me to question the entire article.   The weight of the tanks was an appropriate question by those thinking of the logistics involved.  I can tell you those tanks get heavy in Just 100 meters on level ground. 

 

Hope today is the day that they all get out and then Thai seals clean up the cave and in a day or two all are safe and the gate is welded on so only approved groups can enter this cave in the future.   I can see this becoming a pretty big tourist attraction complete with dual pricing.  

I wasn't interested in tanks before. But after your very knowledgeable posts my interest has been sparked. I'm not understanding what you mean by the tanks get heavy in 100 m of level ground ?

Do the tanks feel light in the water? 

Any way, we can't expect much until late afternoon so another long waiting day. Good luck all. 

9 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I wasn't interested in tanks before. But after your very knowledgeable posts my interest has been sparked. I'm not understanding what you mean by the tanks get heavy in 100 m of level ground ?

Do the tanks feel light in the water? 

Any way, we can't expect much until late afternoon so another long waiting day. Good luck all. 

He means they're bloody heavy when being humped ?

I meant carrying a tank, by the neck or over your shoulder or attached to your BCD even on dry land for 100 meters is a real effort.  In water they are pretty neutral buoyant.  Buoyancy compensator device.  Is BCD.  By the way you don't roll a tank with 3000 psi in it.   A regulator attached to the tank using I threaded knob that seats the two parts  together sealing with an o-ring.  Then there is a secondary regulator near the mouth that releases gas on demand.  It senses negative pressure of your inhale.  On normal dive equipment none of this gear has quick connect fittings except fir a hose that goes to inflate your BCD for buoyancy control.  

 

Since I began diving in the early 80's a second secondary regulator has become the norm if not required.  Called an octopus.  It's better to hand a buddy in distress a spare secondary mouthpiece rather than sharing yours every few breaths as is taught in dive class.    I think one post mentioned that he would want two spare air sources.  Many divers carry a mini tank air delivery system.  on their belt.  Totally redundant but only good for a few minutes. 

15 minutes ago, evadgib said:

He means they're bloody heavy when being humped ?

Ohhh Matron...!

46 minutes ago, evadgib said:

He means they're bloody heavy when being humped ?

I would trust Those fit divers to hump me through a cave anytime. ?

31 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I meant carrying a tank, by the neck or over your shoulder or attached to your BCD even on dry land for 100 meters is a real effort.  In water they are pretty neutral buoyant.  Buoyancy compensator device.  Is BCD.  By the way you don't roll a tank with 3000 psi in it.   A regulator attached to the tank using I threaded knob that seats the two parts  together sealing with an o-ring.  Then there is a secondary regulator near the mouth that releases gas on demand.  It senses negative pressure of your inhale.  On normal dive equipment none of this gear has quick connect fittings except fir a hose that goes to inflate your BCD for buoyancy control.  

 

Since I began diving in the early 80's a second secondary regulator has become the norm if not required.  Called an octopus.  It's better to hand a buddy in distress a spare secondary mouthpiece rather than sharing yours every few breaths as is taught in dive class.    I think one post mentioned that he would want two spare air sources.  Many divers carry a mini tank air delivery system.  on their belt.  Totally redundant but only good for a few minutes. 

Well that's very interesting. So what your saying in very technical terms is that the tanks are very heavy on land. And that's even with the buoyancy compensater device or BCD.

So the divers will be very tired I imagine. 

Yes tanks are heavy, bulky and toe crushers.  In water a bare tank is not heavy like most objects. But it has  30# mass and inertia so it can crush fingers against rock.  In a BCD it's like a uncomfortable back pack.  I could see carrying two tanks with one  on your back but it would be harder than humping out elk hind quarters. 

 

I imagine that they change to a fresh full tank for each underwater section.  Am experienced diver could change masks thus tanks underwater.  But can these kids for that and then clear the water out if the mask?   And tank below 2700 psi would need to be topped off before being considered full.  They do hold over 3000.  But 10% more gas is important. 

 

I could add that today there are many small portable compressors for tank filling.   Clean contaminate free end product us important.  To get the tank completely full it's best to fill the tanks submerged in a cool water bath. If not the pressure will go down as the tank cools.  Compressing air generates heat.  Sometimes a tank is filled once then topped off later if no water bath is used.  

Has the rescue for today, Tuesday, begun yet? Have the divers already entered the cave for day three?

11 hours ago, balo said:

If everything goes well tomorrow , I would imagine Hollywood is ready to make a movie out of this.  

sadly even if things go south, they will still make a film about this. there is already enough of a happy ending and any more drama will only spice up the story.

Will updates be posted on this thread as was yesterday or should I go to another thread?

3 minutes ago, bubbaba said:

Will updates be posted on this thread as was yesterday or should I go to another thread?

Looks like everybody has moved to a new thread: tense wait for remaining 5

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

I would trust Those fit divers to hump me through a cave anytime. ?

Trust you're not referring to the "vulgar" slang of hump ?

May the next person who discusses tank mixtures or oxygen toxicity, develop large moobs and lose most of their hair..

For today's rescue news please see https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1047655-ninth-boy-rescued-from-tham-luang-cave-live-updates/