webfact Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Trump calls Germany 'captive' of Russia; demands higher defence spending By Jeff Mason, Robin Emmott and Alissa de Carbonnel (First row L-R) German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Belgium's Prime Minister Charles Michel, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, US President Donald Trump, Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May (second row L-R) Denmark's Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen, Norway's Prime Minister Erna Solberg, Poland's President Andrzej Duda, French President Emmanuel Macron (third row) Albania's Prime Minister Edi Rama, Czech Republic President Milos Zeman and Spain's Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez pose for a family picture ahead of the opening ceremony of the NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) summit, at the NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium July 11, 2018. Ludovic Marin/Pool via REUTERS BRUSSELS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump accused Germany on Wednesday of being a "captive" of Russia due to its energy reliance, before a NATO summit where he pressed allies to more than double defence spending. Having lambasted NATO members for failing to reach a target of spending 2 percent of national income on defence, Trump told fellow leaders in Brussels he would prefer a goal of 4 percent, similar to U.S. levels, officials said. That would represent a massive upheaval of budgetary priorities in Europe where Germany and many others have pledged only to reach 2 percent by 2024 or later, and it was not clear what allies would spend the money on. At the end of the first session of a two-day summit, NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the aim first was to reach 2 percent, but moments later Trump tweeted that allies were undercutting the United States on trade and needed to immediately up spending. The exchange was part of an uncomfortable day as anxious Western allies were subjected to the U.S. president's "America first" approach. His comment that Germany was controlled by Russia earned a rebuke from Berlin. "We are not prisoners, neither of Russia nor of the United States," Germany's Foreign Minister Heiko Maas told reporters. TWO TRUMPS But Trump was also at times enthusiastic and affable, exchanging embraces and handshakes with fellow leaders, posing for photographs in front of a NATO military band and mingling at a summit dinner in a Brussels museum. Unlike a fraught Group of Seven summit in Canada in June, Trump did not block a final leaders' statement, which paved the way for Macedonia to start NATO membership talks and a modernisation of the alliance to better deter Moscow. Earlier, Trump strode into NATO's new glass-and-steel headquarters and into the amphitheatre-like North Atlantic Council decision-making chamber to shake hands with leaders - but only after publicly railing against Germany, one of NATO's top European powers, at a breakfast meeting with Stoltenberg. Trump told Stoltenberg Germany was wrong to support an $11-billion Baltic Sea pipeline to import even more Russian gas while being slow to meet targets for NATO spending. "We're supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia," Trump said in the presence of reporters. "We're protecting Germany, we're protecting France, we're protecting all of these countries. And then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they're paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia," he said. "I think that's very inappropriate." Trump appeared to substantially overstate German reliance on Russian energy and to imply Berlin was funding a pipeline that Chancellor Angela Merkel says is a commercial venture. She hit back by contrasting her own experience of growing up in Soviet-controlled East Germany with the sovereign, united Germany now playing a major role in NATO. Trump and Merkel later held businesslike talks on the sidelines. Trump said he had a "very, very good relationship" with Merkel who described the two as "good partners". A source close to French President Emmanuel Macron said Trump had voiced his "personal attachment" to Europe and gave "rather positive and constructive messages" to his allies. "There is no break-up between America and Europe," the source said after Macron and Trump held "friendly" talks. WEAKENING BOND? But with tensions in the alliance smouldering over Trump's trade tariffs on European steel, his earlier comments fuelled concerns about the U.S. role in keeping the peace that has reigned since World War Two. Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel called for "fair play" and more respect for multilateralism. Baltic leaders, fearful of any repeat of Russia's annexation of Crimea, called for unity, while Slovak President Andre Kiska said his country was "one of the good guys" because it was increasing defence spending. Those comments underscored the risks to Trump's strategy by dividing allies between those who spend more on defence and those who do not, such as Belgium, Spain, Italy and Luxembourg, but who contribute with troops to NATO missions. NATO's Stoltenberg later told reporters that Trump, who will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday, had used "very direct language" but that NATO spending was rising strongly. The NATO chief was also frank about the impact of Trump's stance at a broader level. "There are disagreements on trade. This is serious. My task is to try to minimise the negative impact on NATO," he said. "So far it hasn't impacted on NATO that much. I cannot guarantee that that will not be the case in the future. The transatlantic bond is not one, there are many ties, some of them have been weakened." (Additional reporting by William James, Sabine Siebold, Humeyra Pamuk, Phil Stewart, Writing by Alastair Macdonald and Robin Emmott, Editing by Mark Heinrich and Robin Pomeroy) -- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAG Posted July 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2018 They all appear to be gazing at something in the sky. Could it be an orange angry baby blimp? 4 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post simple1 Posted July 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) Usual insulting hyperbole and misinformation from Trump concerning US NATO contributions, deserves a slap from Merkel. Reality... Russia currently provides 40 percent of the fuel that generates 10 percent of Germany’s power, that’s 4 percent of the country’s energy production. Trump also needs to bear in mind US liquid gas is more expensive than dry gas from Russia. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-18/germany-brushes-aside-u-s-objection-to-russia-gas-pipeline-link Edited July 11, 2018 by simple1 6 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post attrayant Posted July 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2018 Embarrassing. Trump either has no idea how NATO works, or doesn't care that he's lying to people. Probably both. 11 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lungstib Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 Isn't geographical isolation a wonderful thing? Several European countries have borders with, or are close enough to Russia, to realize that learning to live with them, trade with them and understand their needs is a good thing. This is the reality in many parts of the world where your neighbour is a nuclear giant with the capability of destroying your country. Trump, however, feels a need to build a wall with his southern neighbour who offers very little threat apart from supplying cheap labour and is currently in dispute with its northern neighbour over trade. He really doesn't seem to have understood peaceful negotiation at all. Threat is his hallmark. 10 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Boon Mee Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, attrayant said: Embarrassing. Trump either has no idea how NATO works, or doesn't care that he's lying to people. Probably both. Fiction. 1 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Becker Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, Boon Mee said: Fiction. I disagree. The statements coming from the Swamp King are stranger than fiction. 7 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chomper Higgot Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 Psychiatrists refer to this as ‘Projection’. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 What's really bizarre is that the other member of Nato are telling Trump he won, that's he's convinced them. Yet.. ‘Rubbing salt in the wounds’: Trump won’t take yes for an answer at NATO summit The U.S. president began a remarkable day of transatlantic diplomacy by attacking Germany as “captive to Russia,” later called on NATO countries to double their previous commitment to defense spending and then effectively renounced the gathering altogether. “He could declare victory . . . and ride off in a blaze of glory as leader of the West,” said Alexander Vershbow, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO and to Russia who met with officials on the sidelines of Wednesday’s summit. “But he’s rubbing salt in the wounds.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rubbing-salt-in-the-wounds-trump-wont-take-yes-for-an-answer-at-nato/2018/07/11/8984eba8-851b-11e8-9e80-403a221946a7_story.html?utm_term=.bca8b8e2b4d2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post attrayant Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 57 minutes ago, Boon Mee said: Fiction. It seems there's a third option: Trump has no idea how NATO works, he's lying about it, and people like you are eating it up with a spoon. 9 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bristolboy Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, attrayant said: It seems there's a third option: Trump has no idea how NATO works, he's lying about it, and people like you are eating it up with a spoon. If you want proof to back this up, here's a tweet from Trump: "Many countries in NATO, which we are expected to defend, are not only short of their current commitment of 2% (which is low), but are also delinquent for many years in payments that have not been made. Will they reimburse the U.S.?" Clearly, he has zero understanding of NATO. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tug Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 What a dum ass 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post maximillian Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, bristolboy said: If you want proof to back this up, here's a tweet from Trump: "Many countries in NATO, which we are expected to defend, are not only short of their current commitment of 2% (which is low), but are also delinquent for many years in payments that have not been made. Will they reimburse the U.S.?" Clearly, he has zero understanding of NATO. ...which we are expected to defend... Wow, so happy we have the Empire to protect us. Thank you, thank you. But defend us from whom ? USSR, Warsaw Pact, Russia ? C'mon. NATO was founded to defend the 'free world' against the Sowjet Union. It was meant as a defense organisation, now it has become an extended arm of the US army. We need to distance ourselves from imperialist war mongers, liars and regime changers. Clearly, I have zero understanding for US imperialist politics. Defense budget Russia 70 billion, defense budget NATO 300 billion, defense budget USA 600 billion. And it still isn't enough ?? Double it and the MIC will keep asking for more and more and more. There will always be a fool (tool) for them called President. 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post quandow Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 Actual live footage of Trump discussing NATO with the European leaders: 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post buick Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 i don't really understand the whole concept of this 2% of a country's GDP for military spending. is that suggesting that NATO will be more effective if countries like latvia and austria spend the 2% ? or another example, i guess canada is around 1% but they seem to do their fair share of the 'work' when it comes to NATO. maybe they spend their money more effectively ? spending just to say you spend, doesn't make much sense. i'm not against NATO's existence but it seems like the formation of the EU back in the early 90's has done some of what NATO was set up to do - mainly, avoid military conflict in europe. russia doesn't have the best reputation these days but the same can be said for the USA and other military powers (china ?). if the EU could facilitate a somewhat friendly relationship with russia, which i think is somewhat underway already, it might reduce any threat from russia. that is surely more effective than showing force by having USA military troops in europe (and they seem to get closer and closer to russia). i think it would be great if the USA closed/phased out it's military bases in europe. at some point, that should happen, i don't know if it is 5 years from now or 15, but the EU can take care of itself (or request assistance if/when needed). or maybe have 'joint' military bases for awhile as a transition. suffice to say, hosting a foreign country's military base for a century or so, seems kind of odd. at some point, the risk that was there when the base was put in is gone or significantly reduced. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMHERE Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I wish America would quit the NATO; bring the troops and equipment home, stop paying Germany billions to 'rent' the basis troops and families stay at. Time to spend those dollars in America on Americans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, IAMHERE said: I wish America would quit the NATO; bring the troops and equipment home, stop paying Germany billions to 'rent' the basis troops and families stay at. Time to spend those dollars in America on Americans. What gets me is Germany making energy deals with Russia. This is outrageous ! Edited July 12, 2018 by riclag 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Becker Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, riclag said: What gets me is Germany making energy deals with Russia. This is outrageous ! Why?? I thought you Swamp King fans were all for appeasement with his handler hero colleague in Russia. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post puck2 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, IAMHERE said: I wish America would quit the NATO; bring the troops and equipment home, stop paying Germany billions to 'rent' the basis troops and families stay at. Time to spend those dollars in America on Americans. If you want to dominate the world .... you have to pay for it and not complain about the high budget. Me too! .... but, but ... Germany also should quit the NATO. Would save money for buying American weapons. Instead, put the saved Euros in science and for making peace in the world and not for the US dominated Nato preparing unjustified wars. Under the LOTUS (Liar Of The United States) America has acted waywardly and irrationally. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck2 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, riclag said: What gets me is Germany making energy deals with Russia. This is outrageous ! The unqualified baby president is mixing politics with (his own) economic interests. Imagine, the EU or Germany would tell him what he and the USA have to do ?. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post simple1 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, riclag said: What gets me is Germany making energy deals with Russia. This is outrageous ! US trade deficit with Russia - outrageous! https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4621.html 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tomacht8 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) Alternatively, the US could also reduce its war budget. They are already armed to the teeth and could blow up this planet 100 times. The last thing this planet needs is even more weapons, but worldwide cooperation in the areas of birth control, environmental technology, species conservation, climate change, alternative energies, resource conservation, marine pollution, etc. Unfortunately, trump is too old and too stupid to realize that he can not eat money. Edited July 12, 2018 by tomacht8 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zydeco Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, IAMHERE said: I wish America would quit the NATO; bring the troops and equipment home, stop paying Germany billions to 'rent' the basis troops and families stay at. Time to spend those dollars in America on Americans. Agree. Pull out and put up more tariffs, especially against the Germans. Time for Europeans to take care of themselves. If Russia is really a threat, they'll do so. If not, call the Europeans' bluff. The fact is Germany got rich off the occupation after World War II and the subsequent squandering of hundreds of billions of US dollars being directly funneled into Germany during the Cold War. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker69 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 ??? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1462319390579474&id=545775132233909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFinish Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 +1 nato nothing but a disfunctional bunch of deadbeat pc eu mutts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Becker Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, IFinish said: +1 nato nothing but a disfunctional bunch of deadbeat pc eu mutts! NATO is PC...EU??? Wow, what an amazingly succinct post. I think we're in the presence of a genius!!! 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post simple1 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, zydeco said: Agree. Pull out and put up more tariffs, especially against the Germans. Time for Europeans to take care of themselves. If Russia is really a threat, they'll do so. If not, call the Europeans' bluff. The fact is Germany got rich off the occupation after World War II and the subsequent squandering of hundreds of billions of US dollars being directly funneled into Germany during the Cold War. One assumes you don't understand the purpose and benefits of the Marshall Plan and who got what by way of funding and support. How did West Germany squander hundreds of billions of US dollars during the Cold War? Plus would be interesting to read a factual argument on how protectionist trade policy will benefit the US contrary to the lessons of history. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, simple1 said: How did West Germany squander hundreds of billions of US dollars during the Cold War? It was America that squandered the money. If you want to know how, read my book. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zaphod reborn Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 Again, the media fails to connect the dots as to why Trump even cares about the Baltic pipeline that feeds natural gas from Russia into Germany. It has nothing to do with US producers, as US gas must be converted to LNG and shipped, making it too expensive for the market. Does anyone recall that Trump was offered an 18% ownership in Rosneft if he lifted sanctions against Russia? Gazprom, who has the German nat gas contract, and Rosneft are vicious global market competitors, being the largest nat gas producers in Russia. Rosneft v. Gazprom Obviously, Trump still believes he can lift Russian sanctions and be rewarded with ownership in Rosneft. Now, do you understand why he wants to talk to Putin, mano-on-mano? 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bristolboy Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, IFinish said: +1 nato nothing but a disfunctional bunch of deadbeat pc eu mutts! Thank you for posting rarely. Keep it up. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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