Considering dual Thai/US citizenship - questions/advice!

[megrat85]

I was born and raised in the US to a Thai mom and an American father. My mom came to the US in her twenties for graduate school, met my father and didn't return to Thailand for nearly 20 years. She has since become a US citizen and has lived in the US longer than she lived in Thailand. Anyway, my mom's entire side of the family is still in Thailand and we have visited every few years since I was a kid (I'm in my early 30s now). Now that my parents are getting older, I have been thinking of obtaining dual Thai/US citizenship so that I can still maintain a connection with my Thai family when my mom eventually passes, and leave the door open to potentially re-locating to Thailand for work and/or to buy property in the future. 

 

1.) Is there any sense in having a Thai passport if I'm not fluent in Thai? Unfortunately my mom never taught me Thai growing up, but it is one of my life goals to learn so that I can communicate with my Thai family when my mom is no longer around. I lived in Thailand for 3 months during an internship in graduate school and took language lessons, but I still have a long way to go to fluency and being able to read/write. 

2.) I know foreigners of non-Thai decent have to go through the naturalization process living in Thailand for X amount of years, have to take a language test, recite the King's song etc. - but since my mother is Thai, I do not have to go through that process, correct? 

3.) Any compelling reasons why I should/should not want dual citizenship?

4.) Has anyone gone through this process at the consulate in Washington, DC? Any tips/advice would be great. 

 

Thank you in advance! 

[phuketrichard]

MY daughter is 50/50 American Thai holding both passports, although she was brought up in Thailand, went to uni and still remains in the states.

You are Thai as ur mom is thai

Its the Thai Embassy in DC not a consolute.

 

With a thai passport/citizenship you can own land an also be employed without a wp. Always good to have 2 passports,.

 

[ubonjoe]

1. You already have Thai nationality from birth. The only thing you need is proof of it.

    Your Thai language skills will in no way affect that. If you ever decided to live here it would help to have the ability to converse in Thai.

2. Not applicable to you.

3. No 

    There would be many advantages to have Thai nationality. You could enter the country as a Thai and stay as long as you want to. No need ever for visas. work permit and etc.

4. The only thing that needs to be done is for your parents to register your birth at the embassy in Washing DC or one of the official consulates in New York, Chicago or Los Angeles. Requirements are here on embassy website: http://thaiembdc.org/thai-birth-certificate-eng/ and here in Thai and english http://thaiembdc.org/th/สูติบัตรไทย-ไทย-english/ After that you could get a Thai passport, house registration and a Thai ID card.

[DrDave]

Having a Thai passport and Thai ID card will make your time spent in Thailand much easier:

 

- You won't be subjected to the numerous visa, extension, and reporting hassles that are applicable to foreigners.

- You will be able to own a business and property.

- You will be able to be employed without work permit hassles .

- You won't be subjected to dual-pricing schemes.

- You will be able to easily open bank accounts at any Thai bank, in any location.

- You will be able to easily send money back to the US if needed.

 

You are in a very enviable position - go for it!

[Neeranam]

Great advice from ubonjoe.

 

I wonder if you'd be required to do military service. I think you are over the required age but would check.

 

If you have been in the US Army, it might complicate things.

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I wonder if you'd be required to do military service. I think you are over the required age but would check.

 

If you have been in the US Army, it might complicate things.

He is over 30 years old so he is no longer subject to the draft. Since he was never been registered in a house book there is no past obligation to affect him now.

Being in the US military would have no effect on his birth being registered or anything else.

[megrat85]

28 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He is over 30 years old so he is no longer subject to the draft. Since he was never been registered in a house book there is no past obligation to affect him now.

Being in the US military would have no effect on his birth being registered or anything else.

I am also a she so i don’t thing conscription applies : ) 

 

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies and advice!  The only downside I am seeing is I don’t believe I’d be able to gain a security clearance (in the US) but that may not be too much of an issue. Though I do live near DC! 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, megrat85 said:

I am also a she so i don’t thing conscription applies : ) 

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies and advice!  The only downside I am seeing is I don’t believe I’d be able to gain a security clearance (in the US) but that may not be too much of an issue. Though I do live near DC! 

I did not bring up conscription since you mentioned you are over 30. Also even if you were under 30 it would not be that big of a problem unless you were living here. But now that I know you are a she as you said it is totally irrelevant since you would not be subject to the draft.

As far as I know having Thai citizenship would not affect you getting a security clearance since at this time you have never lived here.

 

[wallwallyau]

Like ubonjoe mentioned,  you already have Thai nationality from birth. Firstly, you have to apply Thai birth Certificate from local embassy. It doesn't mean you was born at Thailand. It just proves that you have Thai nationality. For details, please check local embassy.

After you got Thai Birth certificate. you need to go back local Amphoe department  where your mother registers the home address to register your name to that address. For this registration, it requires from one week to several months with interviews and some doucments depending on the local practices. Interviews will be involved you ,your mother, relatives and the home address's owner. Also, you may need to pay the fine (not much) for not joining the draft since you are over 30.

Once registration is completed, Amphoe will issue I.D. card to you.

 

I would say there are nothing harmful if you own dual citizenships.

[cardinalny]

In regards to a US Govt security clearance, having dual citizenship raises red flags.  If you apply for work with US govt and declare that you have dual citizenship, you will be questioned as to your allegiance to Thailand (in this case), whether you are under the influence of foreign agents.  Depending on the security level required for the US govt job, it might be prohibited to have dual citizenship 

[bobonzo]

Both my kids carry 2 passports. I would believe that's a good thing in todays world

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, wallwallyau said:

After you got Thai Birth certificate. you need to go back local Amphoe department  where your mother registers the home address to register your name to that address. For this registration, it requires from one week to several months with interviews and some doucments depending on the local practices. Interviews will be involved you ,your mother, relatives and the home address's owner.

Her (read a earlier post stating she is a she)mother does not have to be involved for her to be registered at a Amphoe. The registration can be done in any house book with permission of the house master shown on the book. It certainly should not take as long as you state.

[wallwallyau]

Based on my last exp, other amphoes refused me for registration even though other house master agrees to let me in. I would say they are too lazy or dont want to take any risks for my registration. Finally, i need to stick to the address my mother registered. Anyways, better check with local amphoe how to handle it.

[timendres]

As you are currently a US citizen by birth, I believe that obtaining Thai citizenship now will revoke your US citizenship.

 

It is a one way street. If a Thai citizen obtains US citizenship, the US cannot revoke the Thai citizenship.

However, being first a US citizen, obtaining citizenship in another country immediately revokes your US citizenship.

 

From my previous passport, pages 4 and 5 spell this out:

 

Not sure of the clause "with intention to relinquish US citizenship" applies, and if qualifying for Thai citizenship by birth also affects that. But this is something I would double check before taking any action.

Edited July 13, 2018 by timendres

[ThaidDown]

6 minutes ago, timendres said:

As you are currently a US citizen by birth, I believe that obtaining Thai citizenship now will revoke your US citizenship.

 

It is a one way street. If a Thai citizen obtains US citizenship, the US cannot revoke the Thai citizenship.

However, being first a US citizen, obtaining citizenship in another country immediately revokes your US citizenship.

 

From my previous passport, pages 4 and 5 spell this out:

 

Not sure of the clause "with intention to relinquish US citizenship" applies, and if qualifying for Thai citizenship by birth also affects that. But this is something I would double check before taking any action.

Wrong, on two counts. Section 8 of your passport scan says 'under certain circumstances may lose'.

 

Also read section 9. The poster acquired both Thai and US citizenships at the same time,  at the moment of birth. therefore the op is a 'Dual Citizen'

 

[Mattd]

9 minutes ago, timendres said:

As you are currently a US citizen by birth, I believe that obtaining Thai citizenship now will revoke your US citizenship.

I do not think that this would apply in the OP's case, as she is Thai by birth, so not naturalizing as a Thai citizen, there are several naturalized Thai TV Members that also have US citizenship.

[timendres]

Just now, ThaidDown said:

Also read section 9. The poster acquired both Thai and US citizenships at the same time,  at the moment of birth. therefore the op is a 'Dual Citizen'

Thank you for clarifying that. So the citizenship "event" is the birth, not the registration. That makes sense.

[ubonjoe]

42 minutes ago, timendres said:

As you are currently a US citizen by birth, I believe that obtaining Thai citizenship now will revoke your US citizenship.

No it will not. You are misreading what is says.

There is no law that states a US citizen cannot have dual or multiple nationalities.

[smotherb]

33 minutes ago, timendres said:

As you are currently a US citizen by birth, I believe that obtaining Thai citizenship now will revoke your US citizenship.

 

It is a one way street. If a Thai citizen obtains US citizenship, the US cannot revoke the Thai citizenship.

However, being first a US citizen, obtaining citizenship in another country immediately revokes your US citizenship.

 

From my previous passport, pages 4 and 5 spell this out:

 

Not sure of the clause "with intention to relinquish US citizenship" applies, and if qualifying for Thai citizenship by birth also affects that. But this is something I would double check before taking any action.

Read section 9, Dual Citizens. Dual citizenship is allowed and having it does not necessarily mean you have done so, "with intention to relinquish US citizenship"

[Weddings Parties Anything]

Your situation is discussed in depth here:

 

http://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-citizenship-when-born-overseas/

[prodog]

hey megrat, i am also a dual thai/USA citizen in my early 30s and went through the thai paperwork process only a few years ago.  happy to answer any of your questions.  perhaps we could keep in touch and/or meet up in DC sometime?

 

and to all the others: it's totally fine to hold multiple citizenships if you're a USA citizen.  you can even naturalize as a citizen of another country.  per the US Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual (7 FAM 1222), there's a pretty broad administrative presumption of intent to retain citizenship during potentially expatriating acts.  while administrative policies could change, as i understand it, they're the result of various federal court cases (e.g. Richards v. Secretary of State, Department of State (1985)) and are therefore likely to be just fine.

 

actually the more complicated issue is Thai Nationality Law (section 22); it implies you could lose your thai citizenship if you naturalize elsewhere (which does not apply in megrat's case, since she was born a USA citizen; however it could theoretically apply to her mother if she has obtained US citizenship).  however even this is not an issue in practice; very few cases were published in the state gazette.  and as a matter of law, thailand's new 2017 constitution (section 39) prevents natural-born thais from losing their thai nationality and, presumably, takes precedence over the thai nationality law. 

 

so megrat, please feel free to get your thai paperwork (and feel like a full citizen, which you already are), and even get a third citizenship if you want!

 

and if there are ever any men who are curious about how to deal with the military issue and get a sor dor 9, happy to talk about this too; i did a lot of research + hired attorneys + etc.

Edited July 16, 2018 by prodog
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