6 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Vern, being interviewed after the feel good moment of the year, a time for back slapping and mutual celebration, was asked about Musk. He went right to suggesting sexual violence upon him and questioned his character. When what he could have done was to say was to say, Musk was a little to late to the party but we got on without him. I don't feel bad for Vern in the slightest. It was his own crassness and arrogance that brought this trouble out of a truly great moment in human cooperation. A story with no losers, until Vern needed to lift his leg and mark some territory.

But now seeing his mother's reaction, I can see where he gets his prickly disposition.

Nice twist, but that is not how it went down. Vern said Musk could take the mini sub and shove it where the sun didn't shine, and for those who understand the expression and the circumstances, they knew exactly what was meant. There was no suggestion of sexual activity. You as a Canadian should understand the expression and the context since it is common in Canada. Musk would have understood since he too is Canadian. 

Most likely, Musk didn't like be called out for being an opportunistic jerk and reacted like the petulant bully that he is. When someone tries to stir up  crap, he's told to shove it. It was a bit crude but deserved.

Just now, JLCrab said:

No most certainly up to any place you could pull it off which might be none of the above.

Or all of the above, you won't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

Pedo is not an abbreviation it is a prefix for many different words.

As i said, in your mind it means 'Pedophile' but not in everyone elses. That is just assuming.

 

Pedometer, Pedology, etc.

 

Pedo can even mean 'fart', which would also be a perfectly good explanation as the guy just told him to shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

So many meanings possible that it would not even take a lawyer to understand that suing someone for it would be a waste of time.

 

 

Edited July 22, 20187 yr by Khun Jean

Just now, Khun Jean said:

Pedo is not an abbreviation it is a prefix for many different words.

As i said, in your mind it means 'Pedophile' but not in everyone elses. That is just assuming.

 

Pedometer, Pedology, etc.

 

Pedo can even mean 'fart', which would also be a perfectly good explanation as the guy just told him to shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

So many meanings possible that it would not even take a lawyer to understand that.

 

 

It's an abbreviation of paedophile. It's a prefix of the words you quoted. Big difference. Ever heard a pedologist being referred to as a pedo?

In YOUR mind it is an abbreviation. It might be 'slang'. Which is another interpretation

.

Ever heard an oncologist being called a onco? 
That is why pedo is a prefix, it can not stand by itself.

 

Edited July 22, 20187 yr by Khun Jean

9 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Nice twist, but that is not how it went down. Vern said Musk could take the mini sub and shove it where the sun didn't shine <snip>

His exact words:

 

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It's an abbreviation of paedophile. It's a prefix of the words you quoted. Big difference. Ever heard a pedologist being referred to as a pedo?

At least in US, even if Musk specifically meant pedophile, Unsworth still might not get a libel judgment.

2 minutes ago, Khun Jean said:

In YOUR mind it is an abbreviation. It might be 'slang'. Which is another interpretation

.

Ever heard an oncologist being called a onco? 
That is why pedo is a prefix, it can not stand by itself.

 

 If it can't stand by itself, how could Musk even use it? Not in my mind, in the English language. Check a dictionary.

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

At least in US, even if Musk specifically meant pedophile, Unsworth still might not get a libel judgment.

Probably would in the UK. Has already had offers from "no win, no fee" lawyers in the UK. They don't take cases on unless they're pretty sure of winning them.

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Or all of the above, you won't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket.

I realize you're having a good time with all this but you have to find a court that would take the case and a lawyer to be willing to spend lots of money upfront to do that.

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Probably would in the UK. Has already had offers from "no win, no fee" lawyers in the UK. They don't take cases on unless they're pretty sure of winning them.

But as yet he hasn't got one and one lawyer in UK has said to the Guardian that the problem in UK would be enforcing any judgment on Musk. I agree in most cases contingency lawyers only take on sure-win cases but, in this case, even if the lawyer might  know it's a loser he/she might take Unsworth on just for the pubicity value.

Edited July 22, 20187 yr by JLCrab

25 minutes ago, Khun Jean said:

Elon actually said 'Pedo guy', which can be interpreted in different ways.

It literally means 'Child like guy'.  Like he accused him to act like a small child.

 

If you start adding letters like 'phile' to it to make it into 'Pedophile Guy', ok well then the meaning is what everybody assumed.

But without assuming and adding things (that are present in your mind) the comment was very mild.

 

We all know what he meant. Had he meant it in the context that you suggest he would have not done his half hearted apology he would have offered an explanation and an apology that his comment was misinterpreted.

Now from a legal stand point this defense would probably work also he never named Vern in the post so I'm sure his lawyers could argue that he was talking about someone else.

Like I said we all know what he meant but in my opinion this would not stand up in court. 

10 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

His exact words:

 

Well that's much clearer, obviously he meant stick it in his wallet.

You guys are arguing semantics. You're being just as childish as they are being.

 

1. The hero diver should not have jumped to conclusions about Elon's motive and publicly tell the world that he should stick his "submarine" somewhere.

 

2. Elon Musk should have acted like an adult and faced the criticism in an grown up manner. 

 

3. The hero diver should have just ignored that pedo comment.

 

4. The mother should have kept her mouth shut.

 

I really don't see what other conclusions to come to here. 

 

9 minutes ago, tumama said:

You guys are arguing semantics. You're being just as childish as they are being. <snip>

 

1. The hero diver ... <snip2>

 

I really don't see what other conclusions to come to here. 

 

That if you look at the topic heading you will note that Unsworth is not a diver hero or otherwise.

Edited July 22, 20187 yr by JLCrab

5 minutes ago, tumama said:

You guys are arguing semantics. You're being just as childish as they are being.

 

1. The hero diver should not have jumped to conclusions about Elon's motive and publicly tell the world that he should stick his "submarine" somewhere.

 

2. Elon Musk should have acted like an adult and faced the criticism in an grown up manner. 

 

3. The hero diver should have just ignored that pedo comment.

 

4. The mother should have kept her mouth shut.

 

I really don't see what other conclusions to come to here. 

 

1. He was neither a diver or a hero. He was a local caver who put a call in to the British Cave Rescue Society. He didn't jump to conclusions, he stated facts.

 

2. Agree.

 

3. If someone accused me of being a pedo, I certainly wouldn't have ignored it.

 

4. The mother is an old lady who was conned into making a statement, defending her son, by an extremely sleazy "journalist".

 

There you go, some other conclusions.

 

 

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

That if you look at the topic heading you will note that Unsworth is not a diver hero or otherwise.

 

It says "mum of hero...". But whatever. It doesn't matter what you call him. The point is still valid.

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

1. He was neither a diver or a hero. He was a local caver who put a call in to the British Cave Rescue Society. He didn't jump to conclusions, he stated facts.

 

2. Agree.

 

3. If someone accused me of being a pedo, I certainly wouldn't have ignored it.

 

4. The mother is an old lady who was conned into making a statement, defending her son, by an extremely sleazy "journalist".

 

There you go, some other conclusions.

 

Yeah and how do you know for a fact that he stated facts? I mean that guy could also be a pedophile using the same logic. They're both acting as children.

15 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

At least in US, even if Musk specifically meant pedophile, Unsworth still might not get a libel judgment.

He clearly did mean that, given that he doubled down on it in a subsequent tweet. However, this relates to the point I was making earlier - pedo is obviously an unacceptable insult in both the UK and the US, but is it slightly less offensive in the US? Why might it not be libellous there, while in the UK it almost definitely would be? 

2 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

He clearly did mean that, given that he doubled down on it in a subsequent tweet. However, this relates to the point I was making earlier - pedo is obviously an unacceptable insult in both the UK and the US, but is it slightly less offensive in the US? Why might it not be libellous there, while in the UK it almost definitely would be? 

 

Yeah, which is why many people fought and died for American independence. Because those guys believed in freedom of speech and other things. Sure they had slaves and were hypocrites but that's another story. 

6 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

He clearly did mean that, given that he doubled down on it in a subsequent tweet. However, this relates to the point I was making earlier - pedo is obviously an unacceptable insult in both the UK and the US, but is it slightly less offensive in the US? Why might it not be libellous there, while in the UK it almost definitely would be? 

Timeline.

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Timeline.

For sure, Unsworth provoked it, but what he said wasn't very strong by UK standards. The response by Musk was of a whole different order of magnitude. I've noticed that the British posters arguing on these threads have been mostly much more outraged than the non Brits, this is why I ask is this a slightly less loaded insult elsewhere? Genuine question. 

24 minutes ago, Spidey said:

1. He was neither a diver or a hero. He was a local caver who put a call in to the British Cave Rescue Society. He didn't jump to conclusions, he stated facts.

 

2. Agree.

 

3. If someone accused me of being a pedo, I certainly wouldn't have ignored it.

 

4. The mother is an old lady who was conned into making a statement, defending her son, by an extremely sleazy "journalist".

 

There you go, some other conclusions.

 

 

He did more than make the original call, he was actively involved in the rescue effort throughout.  This effort involved hundreds of people in many different capacities. While the expert cave divers played the most dramatic and obvious role, the work of others was also critical. One does not have to have been a diver to be a hero IMO.

 

This man worked very hard, 17 days straight, under difficult conditions, and contributed to the success of the mission,  that's enough for me.

 

Agree re point 4, the mother likely has no experience dealing with journalists, someone shoved a mike in her face and asked her to react to her son being called a pedophile and reacted predictably.

1 hour ago, Khun Jean said:

Elon actually said 'Pedo guy', which can be interpreted in different ways.

It literally means 'Child like guy'.  Like he accused him to act like a small child.

 

If you start adding letters like 'phile' to it to make it into 'Pedophile Guy', ok well then the meaning is what everybody assumed.

But without assuming and adding things (that are present in your mind) the comment was very mild.

 

He made very clear that he meant pedophile in subsequent tweet. Someone challenged him for having called Vern a pedophile (spelling the word out in full) and he replied "Betcha a signed dollar it turns out to be true".  There is no doubt about what he meant by the term "pedo".  He also made it clear the basis was that the man lived in Thailand, labelling that suspicious.

 

But, he has since apologized and indicated this was just said in anger, i,e. essentially retracted it.

17 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

For sure, Unsworth provoked it, but what he said wasn't very strong by UK standards. The response by Musk was of a whole different order of magnitude. I've noticed that the British posters arguing on these threads have been mostly much more outraged than the non Brits, this is why I ask is this a slightly less loaded insult elsewhere? Genuine question. 

If Unsworth had uttered his remarks privately in a pub and someone overheard and got back to Musk and then Musk went on Twitter as he did, slam-dunk libel.

But Unsworth made his remarks on CNN and maybe millions of people heard about the same time that Musk did and maybe within hours if not minutes Musk put up his tweets.

Not the same.

 

The Musk apology was carefully worded considering that Unsworth might still bring legal action, somewhere.

Edited July 22, 20187 yr by JLCrab

And now we know where the diver got his mouth from! 

Edited July 22, 20187 yr by pacovl46
Fixed typo

1 hour ago, tumama said:

 

Yeah and how do you know for a fact that he stated facts? I mean that guy could also be a pedophile using the same logic. They're both acting as children.

You mean by Musk's logic, that he's a man living in Thailand?

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Probably would in the UK. Has already had offers from "no win, no fee" lawyers in the UK. They don't take cases on unless they're pretty sure of winning them.

Or perhaps if they think there is some good publicity to be gained from the case........just asking.

Just now, animalmagic said:

Or perhaps if they think there is some good publicity to be gained from the case........just asking.

Nope, with these guys, it's all about the money.

10 minutes was over..