Thailand and Australia have formula to beat global protectionism

[Time Traveller]

6 minutes ago, MikeN said:

Well complete isolation and sanctions do not work, just look at the “Democratic” Peoples Republic of Korea, aka North Korea. Or Myanmar when it was run by their generals.

Are you saying that the standard of living and the freedom to travel for the people of North Korea and Myanmar is the same as countries that are not isolated and without sanctions?

Here's a tip: Stop listening to all that anti-western socialist garbage you've been fed....use some commonsense 

[MikeN]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Somebody forgot that Prayut has used his absolute power under Article 44 to violate the Australian-Thailand Free Trade Agreement by unilaterally shutting down an Australian mining enterprise and demanding compensation before allowing resumption of an operating license.

One must question whether the unelected, undemocratic Prayut government can be trusted to adhere to the terms of free trade agreements or continue protectionism (and possibly government corruption) despite free trade agreements.

If you mean the Chatree mine, that was shut down for environmental reasons as it was poisoning the local population and environment with arsenic and manganese. So that’s a pretty good reason for closing it down in my opinion, nothing to do with free trade agreements.

 

[tropo]

4 hours ago, electric said:

 As an Australian, the only thing I ever related to Thailand was the car industry and the cheap holiday flights to Phuket. Does Australia export anything to Thailand ?

 

1

Do you live in Thailand? I eat Australian food every single day. Most of my meat (beef and lamb) and a lot of my dairy products are from Australia. Also fruit (strawberries, avocados) and a lot of other stuff...  not to forget the wine. NZ and Australia probably export more than they import.

 

I haven't lived in Australia for a long time - what do they import from Thailand?

Edited July 25, 2018 by tropo

[ratcatcher]

1 hour ago, zyphodb said:

The Auz products I notice are frozen Beef, butter & wine, all with a hefty Thai import tax on, so what are they talking about???

Tesco carried Australian butter for a while, but no cheese. I expect there's Australian butter and cheese at Villa Market if you look. Anchor butter from New Zealand is the cheapest imported butter at Makro at B109 / 250g.

NZ Mainland cheese has gone nuts now over B200 / 250g 

[MikeN]

14 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Are you saying that the standard of living and the freedom to travel for the people of North Korea and Myanmar is the same as countries that are not isolated and without sanctions?

Here's a tip: Stop listening to all that anti-western socialist garbage you've been fed....use some commonsense 

Here is a tip for you...go back and read it again. I was saying that isolation and sanctions has NOT worked. Engagement and dialogue will work eventually.

Edited July 25, 2018 by MikeN

[tropo]

1 hour ago, zyphodb said:

The Auz products I notice are frozen Beef, butter & wine, all with a hefty Thai import tax on, so what are they talking about???

I don't know where you shop, but where I shop there's LOTS of fresh Australian meat: beef and lamb. I never buy it frozen. Would you expect it for the same price as Thai beef? I don't know about Thai lamb? Is there such a thing? Meat has such a huge range of quality, it would be impossible to determine real value i.e. what is overpriced and what isn't. Even then, for example, I would never eat rare Thai beef as I've already got tapeworms from it. In my home, Thai beef is for stews and casseroles only.

[Peterw42]

44 minutes ago, tropo said:

I haven't lived in Australia for a long time - what do they import from Thailand?

The top 5 selling cars in Australia all come from Thailand, also seafood, consumer electronics.

Also many of the things you think come from Australia are made and owned locally, Allowrie butter/cheese being one of them, its name only, nothing to do with Australia or even owned by Australia..

Edited July 25, 2018 by Peterw42

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, lordblackader said:

Let me go and look at my favorite Australian wines - 300% import tax, great example of "free trade."

There is no import tax on Australian wine due to the FTA, there are other broad taxes on wine within Thailand that even local producers pay.

 

The Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement provides Australian wine producers with preferential treatment (with a zero tariff) over other wine exporting counties (with the exception of Chile which has an FTA and New Zealand which has 0 per cent through its Closer Economic Partnership with Thailand). Wine from almost all other countries are subject to a 54 per cent import duty (Source: DFAT, Key Outcomes of the Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement, March 2015) .

[SABloke]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

In the face of growing protectionism in some international markets,

You mean, like Thailand? 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

The top 5 selling cars in Australia all come from Thailand, also seafood, consumer electronics.

Also many of the things you think come from Australia are made and owned locally, Allowrie butter/cheese being one of them, its name only, nothing to do with Australia or even owned by Australia..

Thanks for the info. I had no idea...

 

I don't use Allowrie butter and didn't know it came from Australia. I tried it once years ago and didn't like it. That explains it. 

[Time Traveller]

1 hour ago, MikeN said:

Here is a tip for you...go back and read it again. I was saying that isolation and sanctions has NOT worked. Engagement and dialogue will work eventually.

Read what? Isolation and sanctions are disigned to PUNISH countries run by despots. The evidence is in the countries you mentioned - North Korea and Myanmar - they suck bigly ! 

Engagement and dialogue only gives legitimacy to despotic leaders.....Under your ideas, countries would have been making free trade agreements with Nazi Germany under the guise of "engagement"

 

 

1 hour ago, MikeN said:

If you mean the Chatree mine, that was shut down for environmental reasons as it was poisoning the local population and environment with arsenic and manganese. So that’s a pretty good reason for closing it down in my opinion, nothing to do with free trade agreements.

 

Wrong again Mike. 

The mine had been in operation for over 10 years - operating at the highest safety standards in the world - and the shutdown was nothing to do with breaking environmental regulations or laws. The government used a specially created law, that effectively allowed the Prime Minister to do whatever he wanted. ordering it closed.

In anycase, the government dishonored the already agreed upon deal under the Thai- Australia FTA.

Any foreign investor considering investing in Thailand should look at this as a case study on how trustworthy Thailand's agreements are. That your investment can become effectively worthless overnight (and without compensation), because you are out of favor by some powerful politican.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by Time Traveller

[Srikcir]

4 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

The government used a specially created law

Prayut shut the mine down by invoking as Chief of the NCPO (aka Junta) Article 44 under the 2014 Interim Charter that is further authorized under Article 265(?) of the 2017 Constitution.

There was speculation that the shutdown using environmental contamination as the excuse was related to an immediate buyout offer made subsequent to the shutdown by a Thai company to the Australian investors at a huge discount share price. The offer was refused. Prayut denied any connection to that offer.

In any case you are correct in that the Prayut government bypassed the free trade agreement for an alleged remedy to claimed environmental and citizen damage. (Now it appears that the government is processing its complaint through the FTA tribunal in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the FTA)

[car720]

3 hours ago, Expatthailover said:

So your one instance is reason why we should accept your view.

Love empirical proof over anecdotal bias

my one instance is but an example.  Do a little research and see if I am indeed being anecdotal.  Start by looking at how much international students are charged at any school level in Australia compared to locals.  After teaching English in Asia for nearly 45 years at every level from kindergarten to uni I think my point of view will be the one we will be accepting in this case.

[aircooledflat4]

5 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Day to day in Thailand I dont see any Australian companies or produce on the supermarket shelf

Not sure supermarket shelves should ever be viewed as wholly representative of the bigger picture.

 

Australian exports to Thailand 2017:

 

	Value	Year
Pearls, precious stones, metals, coins	$749.58M	2017
Mineral fuels, oils, distillation products	$489.07M	2017
Aluminum	$279.17M	2017
Cereals	$123.10M	2017
Machinery, nuclear reactors, boilers	$118.29M	2017
Copper	$116.14M	2017
Iron and steel	$104.00M	2017
Lead	$80.22M	2017
Cotton	$79.98M	2017
Dairy products, eggs, honey, edible products	$68.86M	2017

 

Source:

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/exports/thailand

[mfd101]

16 minutes ago, aircooledflat4 said:

Not sure supermarket shelves should ever be viewed as wholly representative of the bigger picture.

 

Australian exports to Thailand 2017:

 

	Value	Year
Pearls, precious stones, metals, coins	$749.58M	2017
Mineral fuels, oils, distillation products	$489.07M	2017
Aluminum	$279.17M	2017
Cereals	$123.10M	2017
Machinery, nuclear reactors, boilers	$118.29M	2017
Copper	$116.14M	2017
Iron and steel	$104.00M	2017
Lead	$80.22M	2017
Cotton	$79.98M	2017
Dairy products, eggs, honey, edible products	$68.86M	2017

 

Source:

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/exports/thailand

An interesting list. Many people on TV talk about Oz and its economy as if it were stuck in 1960 or 1970. I guess it's they who are stuck in the past.

 

Like just about every advanced economy, the Australian economy is mostly (61% by value) made up of the 'service sector' - which includes most notably in Australia's case financial services, health services, tourism and education. Together they and several other types of services constitute 79% of the workforce. And, while they contribute hugely to Australia's exports - particularly of course education - you don't expect to see them on supermarket shelves in Thailand!

 

For what (little) it's worth, here in Surin I regularly buy Oz margarine, butter, peanut butter & vegemite at Tesco and wine & cheeses at Tops. I don't buy red meat at all except when I'm in an expensive restaurant in BKK and I have either Oz or Kiwi steak.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

 In any case you are correct in that the Prayut government bypassed the free trade agreement for an alleged remedy to claimed environmental and citizen damage. (Now it appears that the government is processing its complaint through the FTA tribunal in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the FTA)

1

It was good to bring this up. As the Chatree mine closed down nearly 20 months ago, where are we regarding the legal action? Surely there must have been some progress by now.

Edited July 25, 2018 by tropo

[kannot]

Wow Thailand at the forefront of  "bugger  all" again.

If  Thailands  "so good" why so many huge import  taxes on foreign stuff here?

[kannot]

4 hours ago, MikeN said:

If you mean the Chatree mine, that was shut down for environmental reasons as it was poisoning the local population and environment with arsenic and manganese

allegedly??

[tropo]

12 minutes ago, kannot said:

Wow Thailand at the forefront of  "bugger  all" again.

If  Thailands  "so good" why so many huge import  taxes on foreign stuff here?

The discussion here is about trade between Australia and Thailand, not the rest of the world.

 

Are we paying import taxes on Australian stuff? I can't tell (at the supermarket), but I know stuff is expensive in Australia, so I wouldn't expect it to be cheap here.

[chainarong]

There are always plans in place between OZ and Thai,  Oz used to be the second largest exporter of sugar, then they taught the Thais how to do produce and market sugar at a cost of 25 million and now Thai is second and Oz is fourth

[mlmcleod]

But Thailand has draconian import duties on many items.  Imported cars and motorcycles have a 210% duty and taxes.  Every package valued at over 1000 baht has duty and taxes.  If the USA did this the world would scream!

Edited July 26, 2018 by metisdead
Bold font removed again. Please stop using bold font when posting.

[vincent13]

On 7/25/2018 at 2:13 PM, Peterw42 said:

There is no import tax on Australian wine due to the FTA, there are other broad taxes on wine within Thailand that even local producers pay.

 

The Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement provides Australian wine producers with preferential treatment (with a zero tariff) over other wine exporting counties (with the exception of Chile which has an FTA and New Zealand which has 0 per cent through its Closer Economic Partnership with Thailand). Wine from almost all other countries are subject to a 54 per cent import duty (Source: DFAT, Key Outcomes of the Thailand-Australia Free Trade Agreement, March 2015) .

Correct, there are zero tariffs on Australian wines imported into Thailand but then the Thai government whacks them with:

 imported wines are subject to other duties, fees and taxes:

• Surcharge / Special duty (US$ 10 per import lot)
• Customs Fee US$ 50
• Alcohol Excise tax: the rate is  Baht 1,500 per litre of alcoholic content for a wine bottle not exceeding  Baht 1,000 (retail). Wine priced higher than  Baht 1,000 (at retail) will be taxed at 10 per cent of its price and  Baht 1,500 per liter of alcoholic content.
• Municipal / interior tax: 10 per cent
• Health support project: 2 per cent, based on CIF/FOB value
• Public broadcasting subsidy: 2 per cent
• from January 2018 – Elderly foundation tax: 1.5 per cent
• Value added tax (VAT): 7 per cent, based on retail price

https://www.austrade.gov.au/Australian/Export/Export-markets/Countries/Thailand/Industries/Wine