No evidence Islamic State responsible for Toronto attack: police

[geriatrickid]

3 hours ago, DM07 said:

"No evidence Islamic state responsible for Toronto attack"

 

Which part of this simple sentence is unclear and needs to be explained further to you right wing Muslim- haters?

 

Oh sorry...I forgot: the police is of course in on the deep-state conspiracy, that does not allow anyone to make any connection to Muslims!

 

I have a few meters of tin- foil to sell to you!

If you don 't have actual facts, don't present your opinion as a fact. You took Chief Saunders' comment out of context.

 

Let's back up and see why Saunders said what he did. 

- ISIL in a post on its social media channel stated that one of its soldiers undertook the attack wielded the gun that killed two and injured 13.  ISIL claimed the attack was in response to its calls to target citizens of the U.S-led coalition battling it.

- A senior known member of ISIL repeated the claim through its media outlet, the  Amaq news agency.

 

Saunders only stated  "At this stage, we have no evidence to support these claims".  What part of AT THIS STAGE  did you miss?

 

That's all. It was a reasonable statement that reflected the fact that the investigation was ongoing and the ISIL claim was being investigated. You have twisted his statement out of context in a  sorry attempt to support your biased opinion. Instead of labeling people right wing tinfoil wearing crackpots, try being truthful.

 

The Toronto police department which is in disarray, is not capable of determining if there is an international link. It has neither the legal mandate, the resources, nor the expertise. The assessment will come from the RCMP and CSIS who have the national mandate, and legal authority to investigate domestic terror and foreign threats. The Toronto police department has faced a number of investigations  over the past few years for bungling investigations, negligence and corruption, so it really isn't up to the job anyway.  It's done a useless job so far on the murder of the  boss of Apotex pharma, so it's not unreasonable to expect a more capable security service to  take over a complex  domestic  terror investigation.

[Ramen087]

The old standard line of deflection and obstruction... "He was a quiet and gentle man, and we're as shocked and disgusted as everyone else by this horrific act of violence".

 

The new line of deflection & obstruction... "We really tried to get him help with his mental illness, we never thought it would come to this, and we're as shocked and disgusted as everyone else by this horrific act of violence".

 

Double-U, Tee, Eff?!

Edited July 28, 2018 by Ramen087

[bristolboy]

13 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

You get caught presenting factually incorrect and intentionally misleading information and go off on a tangent presenting a non event in a further pathetic attempt to  distract from the fact that you got caught. 

 

Referencing a minor altercation  with no bodily injury has no relevance here. I could just as easily reference how   esidents of the Little Mahgreb in Montreal have harassed businesses who do not "respect" their cultural practices. These are events quite different from full on physical assaults and are unrelated from the event that took place and the Canadian government's intentional keeping of information from the public.

 

You  toss out an OPINION piece from an individual with a vested interest in promoting open borders. The author is an vocal opponent of the US government position on illegal immigration and resides in California. The "facts" cited are interpreted and presented to support his OPINION.   Claiming that the autistic Alek Minassian  was a right wing killer is a desperate stretch. The man came from a family not associated with conservative causes. You forget the photo opp of the  father with the local Liberal MP, oooopsie, right, or just another attempt to mislead? 

 

More laughable is the reference to the  mass shooter Marc Lepine. The man's real name was Gamil Gharbi.He's called  Lepine to  detract from people attaching violence to an arab name.  With your logic I should claim he was an arab terrorist. (He was not and his shooting was neither Islamic related, nor right wing related. Instead he was the product of  mother who went from  catholic nun to leftist social activist, who spread her legs for an Algerian bounder. With parents like that, it was no wonder he grew up screwed up.His sister offed herself too.) 

Deal with the event at hand and the fact that the a small grooup of people wish to control what the public sees on the limited number of media outlets.

And no, I do not read the "Rebel" and take its views for my own.  What I do know is that the current Liberal government owes 20+ of its urban seats to communities with large SE Asian/North African/Arab populations. The Liberals will play to those voters in an attempt to stay in power.

 

"Instead he was the product of  mother who went from  catholic nun to leftist social activist, who spread her legs for an Algerian bounder."

Congratulations on the foulest comment of the day.

Did your mother have you conceived by artificial insemination? Or was your conception immaculate? It looks like in your attitude towards women, you and Lepine have a lot in common.

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

You'd think it would be in their favor to find and release information on a link between the shooter and Islamic State. It actually looks much worse for Muslims this way because it just goes to show you they don't need to be apart of a terrorist group, they'll take it upon themselves to kill people based on their religious texts. Random unaffiliated Muslims are perfectly capable and willing to commit these acts for allah.

So you have evidence that Hussein committed this act because of his Muslim beliefs? Or is it just a case of Pavlovian thinking on your part: Arabic name therefore a Muslim therefore a murderer because of Muslim beliefs. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by bristolboy

[Rigby40]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

So you have evidence that Hussein committed this act because of his Muslim beliefs? Or is it just a case of Pavlovian thinking on your part: Arabic name therefore a Muslim therefore a murderer because of Muslim beliefs. 

Usually the case. I know I know, Islam is a peaceful religion and it could never ever ever be the motivation blah blah blah

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

Usually the case. I know I know, Islam is a peaceful religion and it could never ever ever be the motivation blah blah blah

I asked if you have evidence that Hussein committed this because of his Muslim background. Your reply is  "Islam is a peaceful religion and it could never ever ever be the motivation blah blah blah"

In other words you have no evidence. And your assumption that if someone has a name that indicates they might be a Muslim, therefore if they commit a crime of violence it's because of their Muslim beliefs, continues to be self-evidently nonsensical.

[geriatrickid]

10 hours ago, bristolboy said:

 

"Instead he was the product of  mother who went from  catholic nun to leftist social activist, who spread her legs for an Algerian bounder."

Congratulations on the foulest comment of the day.

Did your mother have you conceived by artificial insemination? Or was your conception immaculate? It looks like in your attitude towards women, you and Lepine have a lot in common.

Desperate to avoid taking responsibility for posting factually incorrect information aren't you? Your  claim is quite a stretch. The case of Gamil Gharbi has been  extensively analyzed and it was literally a classic case of a mother who went from one extreme set of beliefs to another set of extreme beliefs in an attempt to reject what she had once practiced. The man who impregnated her wasn't in the picture during the killer's formative years. This isn't about my mother.  Your attempt to  characterize me as a misogynist is  just another attempt   to deny a searing painful indictment of what happens  when extremist views are applied in the home environment. Whether religious, or leftist or rightist; extreme practices  typically end in pain and destruction.

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, geriatrickid said:

Desperate to avoid taking responsibility for posting factually incorrect information aren't you? Your  claim is quite a stretch. The case of Gamil Gharbi has been  extensively analyzed and it was literally a classic case of a mother who went from one extreme set of beliefs to another set of extreme beliefs in an attempt to reject what she had once practiced. The man who impregnated her wasn't in the picture during the killer's formative years. This isn't about my mother.  Your attempt to  characterize me as a misogynist is  just another attempt   to deny a searing painful indictment of what happens  when extremist views are applied in the home environment. Whether religious, or leftist or rightist; extreme practices  typically end in pain and destruction.

 

Can you refer me to the articles or paper where the psychologists or psychiatrists or other experts wrote that she "spread her legs for an Algerian bounder."

If you can do that, then you can make a case that you're not a misogynist. Good luck!

 

[geriatrickid]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I asked if you have evidence that Hussein committed this because of his Muslim background. Your reply is  "Islam is a peaceful religion and it could never ever ever be the motivation blah blah blah"

In other words you have no evidence. And your assumption that if someone has a name that indicates they might be a Muslim, therefore if they commit a crime of violence it's because of their Muslim beliefs, continues to be self-evidently nonsensical.

I can see his point. There is no definitive information at this time that it is Islamic based, although ISIL has taken ownership of the event twice. Because of the  ISIL claim,  one cannot deny the link either. The investigation is ongoing. The multiple knee jerk attempts to dismiss the possible link enables these people to continue protected by naive people who assume that their country is shielded from acts of terror.

 

[geriatrickid]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Can you refer me to the articles or paper where the psychologists or psychiatrists or other experts wrote that she "spread her legs for an Algerian bounder."

If you can do that, then you can make a case that you're not a misogynist. Good luck!

 

Do a search in the academic annals of the psychology of mass murderers and you will find several detailed papers on the family history and psychological factors involved.  Those studies are just as applicable to the current case of Faisal the shooter on the Danforth. Today, Faisal is excused away as "mentally ill". Well of course he is because normal people do not go about randomly murdering people. However,  like the case of Gamil Gharbi, we will see that he was able to differentiate right from wrong and knew what he was doing was wrong.

 

And in respect to to your dramatic reaction to my summary of  Gamil's origins, nothing I stated was factually incorrect. The relationship between his "parents" was brief as the "father"  had other sexual partners on the side and was not around for Gamil's upbringing. The father meets the definition of a bounder. The mother  had some obvious emotional issues when she hooked up with the man, but it was 1964 and the start of the left wing quiet revolution in Quebec. People did odd things back then. Kids were enamoured with Fidel Castro too while he was murdering Cubans.

You don't like the truth and it  disrupts your political agenda. Too bad.

[Scott]

A post from an unapproved source has been removed.  

 

[Rigby40]

43 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And your assumption that if someone has a name that indicates they might be a Muslim, therefore if they commit a crime of violence it's because of their Muslim beliefs, continues to be self-evidently nonsensical.

Usually the case.

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Do a search in the academic annals of the psychology of mass murderers and you will find several detailed papers on the family history and psychological factors involved.  Those studies are just as applicable to the current case of Faisal the shooter on the Danforth. Today, Faisal is excused away as "mentally ill". Well of course he is because normal people do not go about randomly murdering people. However,  like the case of Gamil Gharbi, we will see that he was able to differentiate right from wrong and knew what he was doing was wrong.

 

And in respect to to your dramatic reaction to my summary of  Gamil's origins, nothing I stated was factually incorrect. The relationship between his "parents" was brief as the "father"  had other sexual partners on the side and was not around for Gamil's upbringing. The father meets the definition of a bounder. The mother  had some obvious emotional issues when she hooked up with the man, but it was 1964 and the start of the left wing quiet revolution in Quebec. People did odd things back then. Kids were enamoured with Fidel Castro too while he was murdering Cubans.

You don't like the truth and it  disrupts your political agenda. Too bad.

Nice try at deflection. The question was about your misogyny. And anybody who writes this about a

woman. "spread her legs for an Algerian bounder."  is clearly a misogynist. What makes it worse is that the man in question was a brute. Writing so disrespectfully of an abused woman is disgusting.

[Ramen087]

41 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Usually the case.

Yup, they've now jumped on the mental illness bandwagon to deflect, protect and obstruct the perpetrators of these religious based perpetrators of injurious and many times murderous hate crimes. And some people in the general population still are falling for it. Amazing.

[bristolboy]

For what it's worth what argues against it being an Islamist inspired attack is that the shooter committed suicide.Theologically speaking, in Islam it's one thing to kill yourself in the act of killing others. quite another to off yourself. There is a huge prejudice against suicide in the Islamic world. Egypt has denies for years that one of its pilots took a plane down to commit suicide even though the evidence is overwhelming. This also helps to explain the very low suicide rate as reported in statistics by Muslim nations.

 

[Rigby40]

15 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

Yup, they've now jumped on the mental illness bandwagon to deflect, protect and obstruct the perpetrators of these religious based perpetrators of injurious and many times murderous hate crimes. And some people in the general population still are falling for it. Amazing.

Agreed. I was the same way though years ago, just absolutely terrified by reality I just couldn't accept it. Eventually the cognitive dissonance become too much.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Ramen087 said:

Yup, they've now jumped on the mental illness bandwagon to deflect, protect and obstruct the perpetrators of these religious based perpetrators of injurious and many times murderous hate crimes. And some people in the general population still are falling for it. Amazing.

Nonsense. Who is 'they'? It is the prosecutors, with advice from forensic psychiatrists, security agencies and so on who decide the basis for charges. i.e. whether the act/s were driven by mental illness, ideology, etc, etc. Some members have a POV they ceasely push, does not make their views accurate. With regard to the OP if initially it is not a clear case of Islamist terror, all we hear from people such as you is opinions. Wait for the facts, rather than utilising the OP for endless political vilification.

Edited July 29, 2018 by simple1

[DM07]

On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 6:00 PM, geriatrickid said:

If you don 't have actual facts, don't present your opinion as a fact. You took Chief Saunders' comment out of context.

 

Let's back up and see why Saunders said what he did. 

- ISIL in a post on its social media channel stated that one of its soldiers undertook the attack wielded the gun that killed two and injured 13.  ISIL claimed the attack was in response to its calls to target citizens of the U.S-led coalition battling it.

- A senior known member of ISIL repeated the claim through its media outlet, the  Amaq news agency.

 

Saunders only stated  "At this stage, we have no evidence to support these claims".  What part of AT THIS STAGE  did you miss?

 

That's all. It was a reasonable statement that reflected the fact that the investigation was ongoing and the ISIL claim was being investigated. You have twisted his statement out of context in a  sorry attempt to support your biased opinion. Instead of labeling people right wing tinfoil wearing crackpots, try being truthful.

 

The Toronto police department which is in disarray, is not capable of determining if there is an international link. It has neither the legal mandate, the resources, nor the expertise. The assessment will come from the RCMP and CSIS who have the national mandate, and legal authority to investigate domestic terror and foreign threats. The Toronto police department has faced a number of investigations  over the past few years for bungling investigations, negligence and corruption, so it really isn't up to the job anyway.  It's done a useless job so far on the murder of the  boss of Apotex pharma, so it's not unreasonable to expect a more capable security service to  take over a complex  domestic  terror investigation.

Not even comenting your usual hot air balloon of fancy words and nitpicking!

Just one question: since you are going on and on a bout it: which part of "at this stage" combined with "no evidence" didn't you understand?

 

[Ramen087]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 12:32 PM, simple1 said:

Nonsense. Who is 'they'? It is the prosecutors, with advice from forensic psychiatrists, security agencies and so on who decide the basis for charges. i.e. whether the act/s were driven by mental illness, ideology, etc, etc. Some members have a POV they ceasely push, does not make their views accurate. With regard to the OP if initially it is not a clear case of Islamist terror, all we hear from people such as you is opinions. Wait for the facts, rather than utilising the OP for endless political vilification.

"They" are the friends, family, acquaintances, and ideologically aligned strangers if the perpetrators of these violent, injurious crimes.

[simple1]

On 8/6/2018 at 3:22 PM, Ramen087 said:

"They" are the friends, family, acquaintances, and ideologically aligned strangers if the perpetrators of these violent, injurious crimes.

Has there been any evidence the OP attacker is linked to Islamist terrorism or any of his family / friends

[Ramen087]

Unless claimed by ISIS or any other group, or individual allied or within, governments have a policy in place to state zero connection.  

Edited August 8, 2018 by Ramen087

[simple1]

5 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

Unless claimed by ISIS or any other group, or individual allied or within, governments have a policy in place to state zero connection.  

Where did you get this info - Infowars?