Pumping system

[nitecm]

Anyone know which type of pump are suitable to pump water with a height of 60 m. The required amount of water suppy is about 5000 l per day. The water source is a pond

[CLW]

I'm not an expert would with a difference of 60 m you would several pumps at different levels (plus eventually reservoir tanks) unless you have a very huge diameter pipe, not to mention the sufficient pressure and necessary pump size.

[nitecm]

 I check all these pump are able to give you the head of 60m . It uses AC 220 Or DC 12 to 24 V with less than 300W. I only need to buy another 1kw petrol generator and the total cost 

Pump 5000 to 8000 Baht

Petrol Gen  5000 to 8000 baht 

Another 5000baht for 2000L container

So the total cost will less than 21000

But I not sure will it reliable.

Does anyone has used it before and can give some feedback.

 

[carlyai]

I was waiting for someone else with more knowledge to respond, but here are some thoughts.

How big and deep is your pond?

Why wouldn't you put the pump on the side of the pond and a large diameter hose or piping system into the pond. Then from the pump pipe it to where you want to use it.

The submersible pumps you have in the pictures are for solar operation it reads. Also I don't think a submersible pump is a good choice of pump in your situation.

Does the pond fill from underground water or rain?

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[norfolkc]

do you mean you want to lift the water 70mts or 70mts distance to lift the water 70mts it means the pump must be capable or reaching 7 bar press 

10mts is=1 bar static head press the pumps you show look a bit small for that a sub pump to give that head press is not a standard pump you would find in the average hardware shop 

[lannarebirth]

I would think a positive displacement piston pump would do the job. Married to a honda gasoline motor, about 12,000-20,000 Baht depending on horsepower and pump size.

[MikeN]

Don’t forget that there is an inverse ratio between max. head height and volume/hour. A pump maker might list a max value of 70m, but do not expect much water flow at that height. Or they say 5000litre/hour but neglect to say that’s at near zero head height. You need to look at a height/volume graph to see how much water flow you can expect at a certain height.

[nitecm]

Thanks for the reply

I plan to dig a well at the rice field with two meter deep. The water is from the river which just 20 m away from the rice field and the river bed  slightly lower than the rice field.

I only need 4 to 6 tons of water per day for 200 trees.The height of the slope is about 60 m 

[nitecm]

On 7/29/2018 at 7:26 PM, carlyai said:

I was waiting for someone else with more knowledge to respond, but here are some thoughts.

How big and deep is your pond?

Why wouldn't you put the pump on the side of the pond and a large diameter hose or piping system into the pond. Then from the pump pipe it to where you want to use it.

The submersible pumps you have in the pictures are for solar operation it reads. Also I don't think a submersible pump is a good choice of pump in your situation.

Does the pond fill from underground water or rain?

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I plan to use a submersible pump because it do no need priming . The water is from the river which is about 0.5 meter below the rice field so I need to dip a well about 2 m deep and pipe the water from the river. The river about 20 m from the rice field . I only need 4 or 5 ton of water for 200 trees .The height of the slope is about 60m

[lannarebirth]

On 7/31/2018 at 10:20 PM, lannarebirth said:

I would think a positive displacement piston pump would do the job. Married to a honda gasoline motor, about 12,000-20,000 Baht depending on horsepower and pump size.

Put that pump on a Kubota diesel motor and you're going to spend a little more but it will go on pretty much forever with regular maintenance.

[carlyai]

I plan to use a submersible pump because it do no need priming . The water is from the river which is about 0.5 meter below the rice field so I need to dip a well about 2 m deep and pipe the water from the river. The river about 20 m from the rice field . I only need 4 or 5 ton of water for 200 trees .The height of the slope is about 60m

Ok, I understand, but for me (and I don't know much), if you want to use a submersible, why not dig a well near the rice field? Or use a centrifugal pump on the riverbank? I can't see continuous priming being a problem if you have a footer valve on the pipe in the river, and no leaks. Only trouble will be debris from the river. I can't see how digging a well for the submersible is going to work without a well constructed, probably expensive well.

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[lannarebirth]

9 minutes ago, nitecm said:

I plan to use a submersible pump because it do no need priming . The water is from the river which is about 0.5 meter below the rice field so I need to dip a well about 2 m deep and pipe the water from the river. The river about 20 m from the rice field . I only need 4 or 5 ton of water for 200 trees .The height of the slope is about 60m

Unless you plan on buying a submersible positive displacement piston pump, I think you are likely to be extremely disappointed with performance.

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, carlyai said:

Ok, I understand, but for me (and I don't know much), if you want to use a submersible, why not dig a well near the rice field? Or use a centrifugal pump on the riverbank? I can't see continuous priming being a problem if you have a footer valve on the pipe in the river, and no leaks. Only trouble will be debris from the river. I can't see how digging a well for the submersible is going to work without a well constructed, probably expensive well.

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A centrifugal pump to pump 60 meters straight up a hill?  I wouldn't think so.

[carlyai]

 
A centrifugal pump to pump 60 meters straight up a hill?  I wouldn't think so.

Ok, showing my ignorance. I'll let more knowledgeable people comment.

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[carlyai]

I'm back again. What about a series of smaller less expensive pumps and tanks up the hill?
Ok, leaving for good now. Good luck.

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[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

A centrifugal pump to pump 60 meters straight up a hill?  I wouldn't think so.

How about we go up a 300 M hill with centrifugal pump.

 

 

[carlyai]

Yep...multi-stage.

 

Would it be cheaper than a series of 2 Hp (example) pumps and tanks?

 

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[nitecm]

 I dig the well because the river is very small and water is very shallow at non raining season and is a public place . Totally it has 3 places so I need to build three of them . I  also consider build a two or 3 tanks as suggested by Carlyai by using those readied make cement as shown in the picture below so each  the height is divided into 3 stage and only 20m.The pump will require less power and cheaper or even can move from one location to another so I do not need to buy 3 set complete system

The pump and engine or generator can move around..Postive displacement pump is good withgas  engine is good but not sure where to find the positive displace pump. 

Any recommandation around Chiang Mai area?

I have to balance the cost and ease of operation .

[nitecm]

22 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

Put that pump on a Kubota diesel motor and you're going to spend a little more but it will go on pretty much forever with regular maintenance.

Yes Diesel engine is reliable although more cost but I seldom see positive displacement around Chiang Mai

[nitecm]

Thanks for all the recommandations.

I will build the water tanks at different altitude  with the   difference of 20 m. It will cost about 3000 baht x3 x3  27000 for three places

[nitecm]

22 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

How about we go up a 300 M hill with centrifugal pump.

 

 

This one difinitely can do the job but need a high power engine to drive and high pressure hose or piping to use it

[CLW]

To your concrete septic tanks.
Maybe plastic tanks are more suitable in the long term.
Those concrete rings can start to leak and also evaporate water.
Don't know about the cost.
But you could look at high quality water tanks (those for drinking water). I think they have a good quality and can stand the sunlight for many years. Some of them even have long warranty (5 to 10 years).
They also come as a set with valve and pump included. But pump will be electric one.

[tryasimight]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:54 PM, Fruit Trader said:

How about we go up a 300 M hill with centrifugal pump.

 

 

Centrifugal can achieve over 4000psi in the multistage variant and commonly used as feedwater pumps on high pressure boilers. Bit of an overkill for this application. 

As another poster said..... 

read the pump curve.  Salespeople and the brochures say one thing and often do not consider the real life application. I note in the OP on line brochure it mentioned 12.7mm or 1/2 tubing.  Good luck pumping 5000 litres an hour at 6 bar through that.  Pipe friction will kill any hope of that. 

 

[tryasimight]

Maybe if the OP can be clearer in his real life requirements better advice can be given. 5000 litres a day... My mistake.

So we are talking only 20 litres an hour roughly,  assuming 24 hour operation.  Does the water go to a storage tank at 60m? Or is it a hand held hose being moved around for 8 it 12 hours daily while the pump is running? ( soon get sick of doing that). And changes the litre per hour requirement from the pump. 

Are the trees irrigated?  Each has its own dripper fed from a tank situated at some height above the trees? 

 

[nitecm]

3 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

Maybe if the OP can be clearer in his real life requirements better advice can be given.  Does he really need 5000litres an hour..... or is that a day? 

 

Yes It only need 5000 litres per day not per hour that the reason I consider the use of the 12v or 230V submersible pump with a 1kw or 2kw gasoline generator .From the brochore it state that it are able give me 1000 litres per hours with the head of 60m. It is very cost effective and easy to use. It place one 2000 liters tanks only need 5000baht,the submersible pump 8000 baht and the 1kw gaseoline Generator less than 10000 baht,5000 to dig the well and another 5000 baht for high pressure hose. It just cost me 33000 per system. It also easy to install .

 

But I never use all these type pump before and not sure their specification is true or false.  Water tanks and well or pond will build regardless the choice of pump system

[Fruit Trader]

3 hours ago, tryasimight said:

Centrifugal can achieve over 4000psi in the multistage variant and commonly used as feedwater pumps on high pressure boilers. Bit of an overkill for this application. 

 

Hardly an overkill if the op selected a multi stage submersible to suit his demand and head. Something from the Pedrollo or Chinese Sangom stable would suit the application. Boiler feed is probably the least common application for the huge range of multi stage pumps available.

[Fruit Trader]

10 hours ago, nitecm said:

This one difinitely can do the job but need a high power engine to drive and high pressure hose or piping to use it

You would select a pump with rating to suit your 6 bar head, I was just pointing out that centrifugal pumps are more than capable of going beyond 60M.

[djayz]

4 hours ago, tryasimight said:

Centrifugal can achieve over 4000psi in the multistage variant and commonly used as feedwater pumps on high pressure boilers. Bit of an overkill for this application. 

As another poster said..... 

read the pump curve.  Salespeople and the brochures say one thing and often do not consider the real life application. I note in the OP on line brochure it mentioned 12.7mm or 1/2 tubing.  Good luck pumping 5000 litres an hour at 6 bar through that.  Pipe friction will kill any hope of that. 

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly, in plain English, do you mean by the last two sentences? 

That 5,000 l / hour at 6 bar is

1) too much for those pipes or

2) not enough?

Just trying to understand it as I have zero experience with pumping water yet (I need to sort this out in the next 2 to 3 months for our place in Korat, hence my curiosity). 

[lannarebirth]

 

You folks are really overthinking this I think. Small piston pump run by belt off a pulley to a small Honda motor, all secured to one of those very inexpensive metal frames. Job done.  For a more permanent installation build a cement pad with mounting bolts and vibration dampeners.

 

That's what you want, right there:

 

 

[nitecm]

9 hours ago, djayz said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly, in plain English, do you mean by the last two sentences? 

That 5,000 l / hour at 6 bar is

1) too much for those pipes or

2) not enough?

Just trying to understand it as I have zero experience with pumping water yet (I need to sort this out in the next 2 to 3 months for our place in Korat, hence my curiosity). 

If the  pressure is 6 bar then if  you connect to the  hose or any pipe line,your pipe line and the fitting and connection must strong enough to take the pressure. It also mean that it need a better quality hose or piping so it will more costly