NCPO denies trying to bully Thanathorn or pro-democracy activists over FB posts

[webfact]

NCPO denies trying to bully Thanathorn or pro-democracy activists over FB posts

By JITRAPORN SENAWONG 
THE NATION

 

Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit

 

THE NATIONAL Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) yesterday denied it was discriminating against or bullying pro-democracy Facebook page administrators related to the Future Forward Party and its leader Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit, by pursuing a case of alleged violation of the Computer Crime law.

 

The charges brought against the administrators of the Facebook pages “The Future We Want” and “Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit” followed normal legal procedures, NCPO spokesman Maj-General Piyapong Klinpan said.

 

“When the security force finds any violations of the law or threats to security, the legal department of the NCPO files a complaint with the Technology Crime Suppression Division [TCSD],” he said. “There’s nothing special.”

 

Thanathorn and some of the party’s executives on Tuesday went to the TCSD office to meet police over a Facebook live broadcast, which the NCPO contends violated the computer crime law. In the video, Thanathorn discussed the current move by the NCPO to ostensibly woo former MPs into its party.

 

The content on the Facebook pages had some information that was inconsistent with the truth hence legal action was initiated, the NCPO spokesman said. The content could create misunderstanding among the public, he argued.

 

The case has stirred up considerable criticism. Critics view it as an attempt to harass the pro-democracy party ahead of the election.

 

Piyapan said the NCPO had done everything within the boundaries of the law. “The NCPO has tried to serve the majority of the people. But if someone tries to distort the truth or cause public panic, it [NCPO] has to come out to create understanding,” he explained. In response to Thanathorn’s comments about coups, the spokesman said that the NCPO and the government were just trying to work and find solutions to bring stability and peace to the country.

 

Apart from the issue with the Future Forward Party, the NCPO had also been strict with any form of political expression. Pichai Nariptaphan, a former energy minister and a member of Pheu Thai Party, was recently summoned by the military over some Facebook posts.

 

Piyapong explained that the NCPO did not discriminate against any particular group and there were no plans to detain anyone for attitude adjustment.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/politics/30351321

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-08-03

[Samui Bodoh]

"...NCPO denies trying to bully Thanathorn or pro-democracy activists over FB posts..."

 

 

Comedy gold!

 

"...Piyapong explained that the NCPO did not discriminate against any particular group and there were no plans to detain anyone for attitude adjustment..."

 

Stop it! My stomach is hurting from the laughter! Piyapong should take his act on the road!

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Samui Bodoh
Lack of coffee and general mirth

[z42]

Just pathetic, these idiot spokespeople trot out the same nonsense time after time about people expressing a different view as "distorting facts" or "causing public panic" or "harming the economy". It is a shame really that there are seemingly so many Thais who simply don't care how awful this kind of oppression looks, and it is sad because there are many who by not making a stand now will start to complain in years coming that their freedoms have all disappeared and that there will be nothing they can do to actually change anything.

 

I think the worst bit about the story above though was that the spokesman defended multiple coups as " just trying to work and find solutions to bring stability and peace to the country". What kind of cretin can say something like that and expect anything other than complete contempt! Dreadful

[Eligius]

23 minutes ago, z42 said:

Just pathetic, these idiot spokespeople trot out the same nonsense time after time about people expressing a different view as "distorting facts" or "causing public panic" or "harming the economy". It is a shame really that there are seemingly so many Thais who simply don't care how awful this kind of oppression looks, and it is sad because there are many who by not making a stand now will start to complain in years coming that their freedoms have all disappeared and that there will be nothing they can do to actually change anything.

 

I think the worst bit about the story above though was that the spokesman defended multiple coups as " just trying to work and find solutions to bring stability and peace to the country". What kind of cretin can say something like that and expect anything other than complete contempt! Dreadful

I could not agree with you more, Z42. To be honest, I am just sick and tired now of the way the Thai people - yes, the Thai people - have all this lunacy deluging over them day after day - and do not utter a peep. Not a whimper. Not a little gesture of defiance. Nothing.

 

I'm sorry - but my patience with the Thais is fast running out. When injustice is this blatant and on a daily basis and the bulk of the people do not even make a symbolic, tiny gesture of defiance or protest - well -     let the Thais enjoy the fruits of their acquiescence. It's quite obvious to me now - the evidence is overwhelming, both from all my personal conversations with Thais from different social strata and from simply observing their national behaviour - that the mass of them don't really care all that much about losing their freedom and rights. Yes, sure, they don't much like it - but they don't care enough. There is no sign anywhere, in the vast majority of them as far as I can see, of incandescent fury at what is going on. So they will get more and more of the same from their delighted Masters - delighted at what a doddle it is to dominate the Thais.

 

The English have a pertinent saying which applies to the supine Thais: 'You've made your bed - now lie on it!'

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Eligius

[Oziex1]

5 minutes ago, Eligius said:

I could not agree with you more, Z42. To be honest, I am just sick and tired now of the way the Thai people - yes, the Thai people - have all this lunacy deluging over them day after day - and do not utter a peep. Not a whimper. Not a little gesture of defiance. Nothing.

 

I'm sorry - but my patience with the Thais is fast running out. When injustice is this blatant and on a daily basis and the bulk of the people do not even make a symbolic, tiny gesture of defiance or protest - well -     let the Thais enjoy the fruits of their acquiescence.

 

The English have a pertinent saying: 'You've made your bed - now lie on it!'

 

Easy for us to be dissapointed with their inaction, but we weren't there when they were fired upon by the pcycopathic bullying authorities.

[Eligius]

7 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

Easy for us to be dissapointed with their inaction, but we weren't there when they were fired upon by the pcycopathic bullying authorities.

There are nearly 70 million Thais in this country. Just a little sign of defiance and resistance - even on a symbolic level - would be most welcome. Even the junta cannot shoot even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of that number.

 

But there is nothing. The Thais are mute, acquiescent - and not really all that bothered by the situation. If they were - they would act. Are they even flooding social media with outrage over what is happening to Thanathorn and his party? No. Selfies and pictures of their food are much, much more important.

 

Let them get on with it, then. Let them continue to take everything that is going on and will go on, more and more. But don't let them complain later.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Eligius

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Piyapong explained that the NCPO did not discriminate against any particular group and there were no plans to detain anyone for attitude adjustment.

Just shameless or stupid.  Hard to tell which anymore.  attitude adjustments are bullying, so they have admitted to bullying .    Peace, order and bullying or NCPOB

[AGareth2]

so what would they call it?

Attitude adjustment?

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Eligius said:

I could not agree with you more, Z42. To be honest, I am just sick and tired now of the way the Thai people - yes, the Thai people - have all this lunacy deluging over them day after day - and do not utter a peep. Not a whimper. Not a little gesture of defiance. Nothing.

 

I'm sorry - but my patience with the Thais is fast running out. When injustice is this blatant and on a daily basis and the bulk of the people do not even make a symbolic, tiny gesture of defiance or protest - well -     let the Thais enjoy the fruits of their acquiescence. It's quite obvious to me now - the evidence is overwhelming, both from all my personal conversations with Thais from different social strata and from simply observing their national behaviour - that the mass of them don't really care all that much about losing their freedom and rights. Yes, sure, they don't much like it - but they don't care enough. There is no sign anywhere, in the vast majority of them as far as I can see, of incandescent fury at what is going on. So they will get more and more of the same from their delighted Masters - delighted at what a doddle it is to dominate the Thais.

 

The English have a pertinent saying which applies to the supine Thais: 'You've made your bed - now lie on it!'

 

 

1 hour ago, Eligius said:

There are nearly 70 million Thais in this country. Just a little sign of defiance and resistance - even on a symbolic level - would be most welcome. Even the junta cannot shoot even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of that number.

 

But there is nothing. The Thais are mute, acquiescent - and not really all that bothered by the situation. If they were - they would act. Are they even flooding social media with outrage over what is happening to Thanathorn and his party? No. Selfies and pictures of their food are much, much more important.

 

Let them get on with it, then. Let them continue to take everything that is going on and will go on, more and more. But don't let them complain later.

 

I'm sorry gentlemen, but I am going to take issue with you over this.

As anyone with significant military experience will tell you, being on the receiving end of sustained fire is f###ing terrifying. Modern bullets do not sing, they crack viciously as they pass at supersonic speed. When the man next to you is hit he does not cry out and fall, he is literally bowled over. If a limb is hit it is often ripped off. If the bullet hits bone it tumbles and comes out through a hole the size of a soup plate. He loses control of his bowels, everything is splattered with blood, guts and shit, literally. You die, suddenly, painfully, without dignity and probably without anyone to comfort you.

 

If you are a trained soldier then hopefully your training, and if you have any rank your responsibility takes over and drives you on. If you are a civilian protestor you are frightened, more, you are terrified. Ask those who survived in 2010, ask those ( if they lived) who were seen being herded into busses back after the Thamassat University massacre.

 

Yes I am being dramatic, it is a (darkly) dramatic business.

 

The Thais know this, they know the track record of those running the current regime.

 

Off course they can't shoot all of them, personally I think that the army and paramilitaries would fall apart if faced with sustained opposition. But they will shoot the front few rows first. That is a lot of blood, guts and shit. That will be in the front of the minds of those contemplating protest. Would you want to be in the first few rows? I know I wouldn't!

 

When I was a professional soldier I knew the risks, and took them by following the profession. I am a civilian now, with a wife and daughter, I know the risks and I would not take them, or more accurately it would take a lot more than these posturing comic opera buffoons to make me contemplate taking them. The Thais will need an equally high threshold. We're nowhere near that, yet.

Edited August 3, 2018 by JAG

[Eligius]

11 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

I'm sorry gentlemen, but I am going to take issue with you over this.

As anyone with significant military experience will tell you, being on the receiving end of sustained fire is f###ing terrifying. Modern bullets do not sing, they crack viciously as they pass at supersonic speed. When the man next to you is hit he does not cry out and fall, he is literally bowled over. If a limb is hit it is often ripped off. If the bullet hits bone it tumbles and comes out through a hole the size of a soup plate. He loses control of his bowels, everything is splattered with blood, guts and shit, literally. You die, suddenly, painfully, without dignity and probably without anyone to comfort you.

 

If you are a trained soldier then hopefully your training, and if you have any rank your responsibility takes over and drives you on. If you are a civilian protestor you are frightened, more, you are terrified. Ask those who survived in 2010, ask those ( if they lived) who were seen being herded into busses back after the Thamassat University massacre.

 

Yes I am being dramatic, it is a (darkly) dramatic business.

 

The Thais know this, they know the track record of those running the current regime.

 

Off course they can't shoot all of them, personally I think that the army and paramilitaries would fall apart if faced with sustained opposition. But they will shoot the front few rows first. That is a lot of blood, guts and shit. That will be in the front of the minds of those contemplating protest. Would you want to be in the first few rows? I know I wouldn't!

Of course you are right, JAG, in what you say. I can't dispute that.

But there is a thing called 'courage' - always has been throughout human history, when people are under oppression - and one can only hope that moral and physical courage will manifest itself again and save the day.

 

Also, some of us - such as Baboon - are saying that there is not even a show of symbolic resistance from the Thais. No minimal signs of resistance or defiance (we are not talking about being shot here). Only a handful of very, VERY brave students and a few others have had the moral and physical courage to stand up and be counted. Now, those are people for whom I have the highest respect.

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Eligius

[Samui Bodoh]

12 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

I'm sorry gentlemen, but I am going to take issue with you over this.

As anyone with significant military experience will tell you, being on the receiving end of sustained fire is f###ing terrifying. Modern bullets do not sing, they crack viciously as they pass at supersonic speed. When the man next to you is hit he does not cry out and fall, he is literally bowled over. If a limb is hit it is often ripped off. If the bullet hits bone it tumbles and comes out through a hole the size of a soup plate. He loses control of his bowels, everything is splattered with blood, guts and shit, literally. You die, suddenly, painfully, without dignity and probably without anyone to comfort you.

 

If you are a trained soldier then hopefully your training, and if you have any rank your responsibility takes over and drives you on. If you are a civilian protestor you are frightened, more, you are terrified. Ask those who survived in 2010, ask those ( if they lived) who were seen being herded into busses back after the Thamassat University massacre.

 

Yes I am being dramatic, it is a (darkly) dramatic business.

 

The Thais know this, they know the track record of those running the current regime.

 

Off course they can't shoot all of them, personally I think that the army and paramilitaries would fall apart if faced with sustained opposition. But they will shoot the front few rows first. That is a lot of blood, guts and shit. That will be in the front of the minds of those contemplating protest. Would you want to be in the first few rows? I know I wouldn't!

 

When I was a professional soldier I knew the risks, and took them by following the profession. I am a civilian now, with a wife and daughter, I know the risks and I would not take them, or more accurately it would take a lot more than these posturing comic opera buffoons to make me contemplate taking them. The Thais will need an equally high threshold. We're nowhere near that, yet.

Yes, very dramatic, but...

 

Respectfully, there are 100,000 shades of protest between doing nothing and an all out fire fight.

 

I think I (and others) would like to see a few of those shades being taken.

 

There are steps that can be taken in protest; I am of the view that if they are not taken soon, then they would be pointless. Step one is for other parties to step up and cast doubt on the electoral process due to cheating by the Junta; it is a reasonable step and it does not involve a fire fight! Step two is to promote the idea that an election without fair ground rules would not be legitimate. Step three is to promote the idea that if the Junta wants a 'legitimate'process, then all parties must be allowed to campaign. Etc.

 

Yes, it does take courage to protest, but we are a long way from a free for all fire fight on the streets of Bangkok.

 

[bluesofa]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Piyapong explained that the NCPO did not discriminate against any particular group and there were no plans to detain anyone for attitude adjustment.

They've come a long way in three years then:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravit_Rojanaphruk#2015_detention

 

[cornishcarlos]

3 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Step one is for other parties to step up and cast doubt on the electoral process due to cheating by the Junta;

 

I think the other parties, Future Fwd aside, have not had their collective snouts in the trough for a while.

Therefore, they are sidling up to the Junta, in an attempt to position themselves for feeding time.

Even the Pheu Thai members are jumping ship, as I reckon they know the outcome is inevitable at the rate it's going.

Greedy little piglets, one and all, not politicians.....

 

[baboon]

2 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

Easy for us to be dissapointed with their inaction, but we weren't there when they were fired upon by the pcycopathic bullying authorities.

They can't shoot you for not showing up at one of their p̶o̶l̶i̶t̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶r̶a̶l̶l̶i̶e̶s̶ mobile cabinet meetings. For clicking 'Dislike' on YouTube. For dirty looks and sneers. They can't. However people won't even do that. This is what frustrates myself and Eligius so - they won't even do nothing or next to nothing.

[Eligius]

4 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Yes, very dramatic, but...

 

Respectfully, there are 100,000 shades of protest between doing nothing and an all out fire fight.

 

I think I (and others) would like to see a few of those shades being taken.

 

There are steps that can be taken in protest; I am of the view that if they are not taken soon, then they would be pointless. Step one is for other parties to step up and cast doubt on the electoral process due to cheating by the Junta; it is a reasonable step and it does not involve a fire fight! Step two is to promote the idea that an election without fair ground rules would not be legitimate. Step three is to promote the idea that if the Junta wants a 'legitimate'process, then all parties must be allowed to campaign. Etc.

 

Yes, it does take courage to protest, but we are a long way from a free for all fire fight on the streets of Bangkok.

 

Absolutely right, Samui Bodoh. This is what is so very, very disappointing to many of us who feel sympathy with the plight of the Thais: the fact that they don't seem to be taking even the minimal steps to show their disapproval of what is going on. Your suggestions are very good. This is why I respect Thanathorn: he has the guts to speak out and tell it as it is. Now, if the other 'opposition' parties would rally behind him and speak out in solidarity with the Thai people - there could be the beginning of real change. Every journey starts with the first step - and it seems to me that the journey towards freedom and democracy has not yet witnessed even the first real step (since 2014) by the bulk of the Thai people.

 

Right! We are not talking about a fire fight at this stage. We are saying: 'Thais: for God's sake do something now, before it is totally too late!'

[Eric Loh]

28 minutes ago, JAG said:

Off course they can't shoot all of them, personally I think that the army and paramilitaries would fall apart if faced with sustained opposition.

The opposition can be enemies within. Happened before when the Navy stage a counter coup. This time may be from the water melon ranks and files. The longer he cheated to maintain dominance, the possibility of that scenario happening. 

[JAG]

28 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Yes, very dramatic, but...

 

Respectfully, there are 100,000 shades of protest between doing nothing and an all out fire fight.

 

I think I (and others) would like to see a few of those shades being taken.

 

There are steps that can be taken in protest; I am of the view that if they are not taken soon, then they would be pointless. Step one is for other parties to step up and cast doubt on the electoral process due to cheating by the Junta; it is a reasonable step and it does not involve a fire fight! Step two is to promote the idea that an election without fair ground rules would not be legitimate. Step three is to promote the idea that if the Junta wants a 'legitimate'process, then all parties must be allowed to campaign. Etc.

 

Yes, it does take courage to protest, but we are a long way from a free for all fire fight on the streets of Bangkok.

 

Individuals can and will be broken (which is what started this topic). Any collective process involving a physical presence - needed if it is to have any effect, or gain national or international attention will very likely end with a "firefight", albeit a one sided one.

One more thought, that will have occurred I'm sure to many Thais. The consequences of that "firefight" may, at one time, have brought down the regime. The man who was the catalyst for that process has gone.

 

Finally, and I'm sure you understand, I make no apologies for being dramatic - perhaps melodramatic - I want to make clear what I think is likely to happen, and offer a plausible reason for the Thais' acquiesce.

Edited August 3, 2018 by JAG

[Eligius]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

Individuals can and will be broken (which is what started this topic). Any collective process involving a physical presence - needed if it is to have any effect, or gain national or international attention will very likely end with a "firefight", albeit a one sided one.

One more thought, that will have occurred I'm sure to many Thais. The consequences of that "firefight" may, at one time, have brought down the regime. The man who was the catalyst for that process has gone.

 

Finally, and I'm sure you understand, I make no apologies for being dramatic - perhaps melodramatic - I want to make clear what I think is likely to happen.

You make good points, as always, JAG.

But I'm afraid that the lesson I draw from what you write is: there is nothing that can be done. People don't want to risk anything and certainly not their lives.

 

So,OK: prepare for (basically) no freedom, no democracy and a militarised government for as long as you and I and all the others on Thaivisa Forum live. Why? Because we can't expect people to show ------ COURAGE!

[baboon]

25 minutes ago, JAG said:

Individuals can and will be broken (which is what started this topic). Any collective process involving a physical presence - needed if it is to have any effect, or gain national or international attention will very likely end with a "firefight", albeit a one sided one.

One more thought, that will have occurred I'm sure to many Thais. The consequences of that "firefight" may, at one time, have brought down the regime. The man who was the catalyst for that process has gone.

 

Finally, and I'm sure you understand, I make no apologies for being dramatic - perhaps melodramatic - I want to make clear what I think is likely to happen, and offer a plausible reason for the Thais' acquiesce.

Yes, I know what you are saying: 'The military and the elite are prepared to kill as many people as it takes in order to stay in power.' and there is certainly a degree of truth to that.

The reverse side of that coin is that this isn't the 1970s anymore. Protestors can't simply be labelled communist agitators and blind eyes turned. Eventually even the laughingly called 'International community' will have their hands forced.

 

The people might have some unpleasant choices to make, but then so do they at the top. Is it worth being the lords and masters of another Somalia or Pakistan?

Edited August 3, 2018 by baboon

[Eligius]

12 minutes ago, baboon said:

Yes, I know what you are saying: 'The military and the elite are prepared to kill as many people as it takes in order to stay in power.' and there is certainly a degree of truth to that.

The reverse side of that coin is that this isn't the 1970s anymore. Protestors can't simply be labelled communist agitators and blind eyes turned. Eventually even the laughingly called 'International community' will have their hands forced.

 

The people might have some unpleasant choices to make, but then so do they at the top. Is it worth being the lords and masters of another Somalia or Pakistan?

Very true, Baboon. And: nowadays we have social media - cameras on every phone, etc. The military cannot do  as easily what they did in the past - and just get away with it. There would be an international outcry - once videos are released showing army barbarity, etc. 

 

Modern technology - in the hands of the Thais - can change the game. The junta cannot go on doing its deeds in darkness forever - IF THE THAIS DECIDE THEY HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF IT ALL!

Edited August 3, 2018 by Eligius

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Very true, Baboon. And: nowadays we have social media - cameras on every phone, etc. The military cannot do  as easily what they did in the past - and just get away with it. There would be an international outcry - once videos are released showing army barbarity, etc. 

 

Modern technology - in the hands of the Thais - has changed the game. The junta cannot go on doing its deeds in darkness forever - IF THE THAIS DECIDE THEY HAVE HAD ENOUGH!

They are always going on about their tourist numbers. Now what would be the effect on those numbers when ministries of foreign affairs start issuing 'We strongly advise against travel to this country' notices? That's your travel insurance out of the window for a start.

 

They might not care about lives but they do care about income. And if foreign tourists and investors get jittery...

[stud858]

3 hours ago, Eligius said:

I could not agree with you more, Z42. To be honest, I am just sick and tired now of the way the Thai people - yes, the Thai people - have all this lunacy deluging over them day after day - and do not utter a peep. Not a whimper. Not a little gesture of defiance. Nothing.

 

I'm sorry - but my patience with the Thais is fast running out. When injustice is this blatant and on a daily basis and the bulk of the people do not even make a symbolic, tiny gesture of defiance or protest - well -     let the Thais enjoy the fruits of their acquiescence. It's quite obvious to me now - the evidence is overwhelming, both from all my personal conversations with Thais from different social strata and from simply observing their national behaviour - that the mass of them don't really care all that much about losing their freedom and rights. Yes, sure, they don't much like it - but they don't care enough. There is no sign anywhere, in the vast majority of them as far as I can see, of incandescent fury at what is going on. So they will get more and more of the same from their delighted Masters - delighted at what a doddle it is to dominate the Thais.

 

The English have a pertinent saying which applies to the supine Thais: 'You've made your bed - now lie on it!'

 

I've written about this before.  One day a champion of the people will be born.  One day he will come. 

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, stud858 said:

I've written about this before.  One day a champion of the people will be born.  One day he will come. 

It could be Thanathorn ...

[Media1]

Inconsistent with the truth lol. The truth is far worse just like you.

[robblok]

Everyone is asking the Thais to stand up and fight..then what.. besides future forward the other parties are just as corrupt as the junta and care just as much about the little people They all care about filling their pockets. Do you want to die so a new group can fill their pockets ? 

 

Its just not bad enough now, people should look a bit at the Maslov pyramid, freedom of speech is high up, most are more concerned about income and jobs then freedom of speech. However bad the junta is it has not destroyed the economy. If they do that then you will have revolts as food and money is more important than freedom of speech. You can do without freedom of speech...see how all of us have accepted royalty is a subject not to discuss. Do you see foreigners marching about that ? 

[Media1]

3 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

Easy for us to be dissapointed with their inaction, but we weren't there when they were fired upon by the pcycopathic bullying authorities.

Fire back

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Media1 said:

Fire back

Resist peacefully. Nobody wants bloodshed.

[baboon]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Everyone is asking the Thais to stand up and fight..

You must be reading a different thread to the one I am, then. Nobody is calling for violence.

[robblok]

Just now, baboon said:

You must be reading a different thread to the one I am, then. Nobody is calling for violence.

I seen the question come up more then a few times here on Thaivisa. This thread there are some people asking for it too. I should not have used everyone. 

 

Personally I don't think changing one corrupt government for an other is worth any bloodshed. Now if there was a good alternative maybe. 

[Eligius]

17 minutes ago, robblok said:

I seen the question come up more then a few times here on Thaivisa. This thread there are some people asking for it too. I should not have used everyone. 

 

Personally I don't think changing one corrupt government for an other is worth any bloodshed. Now if there was a good alternative maybe. 

Rob, I think there is a good alternative now - a major leap forward: Thanathorn's Future Forward Party.