3 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Rob, I think there is a good alternative now - a major leap forward: Thanathorn's Future Forward Party.

I think its an alternative too... but if the Thais think so too don't you think they should first show that by voting for him ? I expect an election in 2019 now if that is turns out to be a farce and he has gotten loads of votes then the Thais see him as an alternative too. So maybe its better to wait and see a bit. Its not as if we have not waited long already a bit longer wont kill them. 

 

But personally I think the future forward  party won't get too big (its the one I would vote for if I could and the one I support). 

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

I think its an alternative too... but if the Thais think so too don't you think they should first show that by voting for him ? I expect an election in 2019 now if that is turns out to be a farce and he has gotten loads of votes then the Thais see him as an alternative too. So maybe its better to wait and see a bit. Its not as if we have not waited long already a bit longer wont kill them. 

 

But personally I think the future forward  party won't get too big (its the one I would vote for if I could and the one I support). 

Agree with you, Rob. If I were a Thai and could vote in a free and fair election (which, of course, the Thais cannot do), I would vote for Thanathorn's Future Forward Party right now!

The Thais need to scramble up to 16 hours a day just to make ends meet. You don't feed your family by organizing protest. They don't have the luxury of sitting on bar stools demanding things change.

I have spoken to several Thais in the past couple of days and all I got in reply was 'Who?' I'm sure many Thai people don't even care. As long as they can have their parties, soaps on the tv etc.they're happy. Some posters here talk about being afraid to go up against guns but they don't have to do that. Get petitions going to courts; okay the government are doing their 'legal bit', as long as petitions are about legal procedures it can't be claimed political. Show the government that they don't like this legal bullying just because someone criticizes them. Let the media have copies too etc. etc. All non violent and don't involve a protest march. Naa, won't happen, too much trouble, Khee Khiad, Mai Pen Rai, Mai Dtong Kit and the rest.

30 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

The Thais need to scramble up to 16 hours a day just to make ends meet. You don't feed your family by organizing protest. They don't have the luxury of sitting on bar stools demanding things change.

I agree with you - that is the sad plight of many Thais. It outrages me to see how  many Thais are poor and how hard they have to work to keep body and soul together.

 

But it has to be said, too, that there are an awful lot of (especially male) Thais who sit around all day and don't really do anything constructive. If they were to stand up for what is right and good and decent and fair - change could come.

 

Edited August 3, 20187 yr by Eligius

History seems to dictate that serious resistance rises when there is absolutely nothing left to loose, when the populace is on their knees, impoverished and starving. 

 

Let them eat cake.

 

5 minutes ago, Eligius said:

I agree with you - that is the sad plight of many Thais. It outrages me to see how  many Thais are poor and how hard they have to work to keep body and soul together.

 

But it has to be said, too, that there are an awful lot of (especially male) Thais who sit around all day and don't really do anything constructive. If they were to stand up for what is right and good and decent and fair - change could come.

 

If women stopped working in this country it would fall apart in a week.

10 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I have spoken to several Thais in the past couple of days and all I got in reply was 'Who?' I'm sure many Thai people don't even care. As long as they can have their parties, soaps on the tv etc.they're happy. Some posters here talk about being afraid to go up against guns but they don't have to do that. Get petitions going to courts; okay the government are doing their 'legal bit', as long as petitions are about legal procedures it can't be claimed political. Show the government that they don't like this legal bullying just because someone criticizes them. Let the media have copies too etc. etc. All non violent and don't involve a protest march. Naa, won't happen, too much trouble, Khee Khiad, Mai Pen Rai, Mai Dtong Kit and the rest.

Very good suggestions, TKDfella. And the key  to change in today's world is - social media. Personally I hate it (never use Facebook, or Line, or any of that other trite stuff); but the Thais (and most youngsters today) love it and use it all the time. Flooding social media - by MILLIONS of Thais - with truth about what is going on here is one way that change can be effected. Evil and filth flourish in darkness. Shine a constant spotlight on it all  - and the cockroaches run for cover.

6 minutes ago, Eligius said:

Very good suggestions, TKDfella. And the key  to change in today's world is - social media. Personally I hate it (never use Facebook, or Line, or any of that other trite stuff); but the Thais (and most youngsters today) love it and use it all the time. Flooding social media - by MILLIONS of Thais - with truth about what is going on here is one way that change can be effected. Evil and filth flourish in darkness. Shine a constant spotlight on it all  - and the cockroaches run for cover.

Yes, the internet has changed things for sure. Get Up and Change org have the elites squirming In Aus efforts have been made to discredit and outlaw these internet meeting places for those joining together to expose hypocrisy and corruption by government or corporations.

 

Power to the people.

4 hours ago, JAG said:

 

I'm sorry gentlemen, but I am going to take issue with you over this.

As anyone with significant military experience will tell you, being on the receiving end of sustained fire is f###ing terrifying. Modern bullets do not sing, they crack viciously as they pass at supersonic speed. When the man next to you is hit he does not cry out and fall, he is literally bowled over. If a limb is hit it is often ripped off. If the bullet hits bone it tumbles and comes out through a hole the size of a soup plate. He loses control of his bowels, everything is splattered with blood, guts and shit, literally. You die, suddenly, painfully, without dignity and probably without anyone to comfort you.

 

If you are a trained soldier then hopefully your training, and if you have any rank your responsibility takes over and drives you on. If you are a civilian protestor you are frightened, more, you are terrified. Ask those who survived in 2010, ask those ( if they lived) who were seen being herded into busses back after the Thamassat University massacre.

 

Yes I am being dramatic, it is a (darkly) dramatic business.

 

The Thais know this, they know the track record of those running the current regime.

 

Off course they can't shoot all of them, personally I think that the army and paramilitaries would fall apart if faced with sustained opposition. But they will shoot the front few rows first. That is a lot of blood, guts and shit. That will be in the front of the minds of those contemplating protest. Would you want to be in the first few rows? I know I wouldn't!

 

When I was a professional soldier I knew the risks, and took them by following the profession. I am a civilian now, with a wife and daughter, I know the risks and I would not take them, or more accurately it would take a lot more than these posturing comic opera buffoons to make me contemplate taking them. The Thais will need an equally high threshold. We're nowhere near that, yet.

Thank you Jag,

 

Very easy  for us to to encourage defiance...

 

Knowing that the worst outcome  for us might possibly be being shipped home "toot sweet" whereas the Thai folks have to get along with what they have got.

 

And what they actually have is a state apparatus far more intrusive and controlling than any so-called-"nanny state" so...given the odds,I understand the passive acceptance of the status quo.

 

Nevertheless,I do acknowledge the courage of those who stand up but I fear that they are a minority this time round.

 

Maybe  in 10 years  time it will be different.But not now.

7 hours ago, Eligius said:

You make good points, as always, JAG.

But I'm afraid that the lesson I draw from what you write is: there is nothing that can be done. People don't want to risk anything and certainly not their lives.

 

So,OK: prepare for (basically) no freedom, no democracy and a militarised government for as long as you and I and all the others on Thaivisa Forum live. Why? Because we can't expect people to show ------ COURAGE!

Courage is a very subjective thing, but it is usually fired by other emotions, including anger and great resentment. To summon up that courage a threshold needs to be crossed. In the case of the Thai that threshold is high, not I think because they are as a people naturally cowardly - few if any peoples deserve that label - but because experience tells them what the result could be. 

Do you remember the tales of communist sympathisers being crammed into oil drums and burnt alive in the 1970s? The second lieutenants then are the generals today. That probably deters individual demonstrations of opposition, as the events of 2010 deter collective acts. 

 

I maintain that a high threshold is needed before the Thai will cross it. We're not near that yet. It may yet come to it... 

 

 

Edited August 3, 20187 yr by JAG

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

Courage is a very subjective thing, but it is usually fired by other emotions, including anger and great resentment. To summon up that courage a threshold needs to be crossed. In the case of the Thai that threshold is high, not I think because they are as a people naturally cowardly - few if any peoples deserve that label - but because experience tells them what the result could be. 

Do you remember the tales of communist sympathisers being crammed into oil drums and burnt alive in the 1970s? The second lieutenants then are the generals today. That probably deters individual demonstrations of opposition, as the events of 2010 deter collective acts. 

 

I maintain that a high threshold is needed before the Thai will cross it. We're not near that yet. It may yet come to it... 

 

 

You make a good point, JAG. But I would not say that courage is 'subjective': throughout human history, in every place, in every time, it is an attribute that has been respected in those who dare to defy Power at considerable risk to their person, liberty or life. Every culture recognises that as courage. Why should Thailand be an exception? 

 

And if we have to wait for much, much worse things to be done by this junta (as you imply) before the Thais' courage is aroused  - my God, it'll see us all out. We'll have to be waiting for decades in that case.

 

As much as I agree with you, JAG, on 95% of your posts - on this issue, I think you and I will just have to agree to differ!

Clearly the NCPO is not discriminating, they bully everyone. Easy to do when no one has the power to resist which is part of the reason for the gathering ban. Unless the general population gets tired of the restrictions and insist on having their an opportunity fir a democratic government this foolishness will continue.