British family stranded in Thailand over son’s passport issues

[DreamRider]

I'll bet the guy in question has slapped his head for the oversight, realised his mistake and then doubled-up, clutching his sides from the overbearing, patronising rhetoric on this thread.

All the best to the p****ed off family in question and I hope they look forward to swift return here.

[ravip]

4 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Has anyone addressed the sophistication of these Brit travelers when it comes down to international traveling?

 

 

Call them stupid or suggest hanging in a public square.    I still say it's over and they moved on with the matter.

 

 I still say it's over and they moved on with the matter.

 

Of course not. Only 190 posts and 13 pages - gotta do better!

Edited August 4, 2018 by ravip

[Gillyflower]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:14 PM, stevenl said:

"the boy was born in the UK, his Thai mother and Scottish father could apply for a FIRST Thai passport for him at the Thai embassy in London anytime BUT he would not be able to get the SECOND passport in the UK until he gets a Thai national ID."

I think this is incorrect and he would have been able to get consecutive Thai passports at the Thai embassy in London.

I realise that we are talking about T'land and I know this is rather off topic.  But many years ago when I started travelling,, I had an Aus.passport issued in Australia.  The next three came from Australian embassies in foreign countries.

[Gillyflower]

Well this topic had one good result.  It made me turf out of my chair and go to check on my passport.

 

I must say, I feel a little sorry for them, but not much.  Everyone knows about 6 months this and t'other and so many pages etc.  Obviously I don't know, but one presumes that they make regular trips to LOS.  I mean they are not inexperienced travellers.

[khunPer]

5 hours ago, genf said:

Yes, one can have a new Thai passport within one day but the problem was that the boy needed to wait for his original birth certificate that the family left in Edinburgh in order to have him registered in the Household registration book (Tabian Baan). Depending on how fast they can gather all the required documents, that I don't know.

1. Child Thai passport 
2. Child birth certificate

3. Photo x 3, 1inch  

4. National ID of the head of the household and the Household registration book, including a photocopy with the head's signature

5 National ID of Thai mother and father's passport (non-Thai)

Time: a couple of hours -1/2 day max.

Once the boy has been registered then they can proceed to get the National ID. Time: a couple of hours -1/2 day max.

Next step is to apply for Thai passport. Application time 15 mins to 1 hour (with prior reservation)  Return of passport 1-3 days in Bangkok, 5-7 days elsewhere.

Thanks for your explanation.

 

This however sound like the procedure for a first Thai passport, but the boy had one that is expired. Perhaps that was issued by a foreign Thai embassy, if the child is registered a resident in a foreign country, and then that foreign Thai embassy should probably issue a new passport?

 

But of course, I don't know all details, just wondered about the family's problems, caused by not checking their travelling documents before departure.

 

I've been doing Thai passport for my daughter, and also renewing it, and both times were simple and easy procedures, that's why I noticed the "same day service"; she also has dual nationality.

[richard_smith237]

9 hours ago, Stoker58 said:

On 8/3/2018 at 2:56 PM, richard_smith237 said:

I don't see how you can blame the FCO... The child is dual nationality - In Thailand he is Thai, he entered on his Thai passport, his Thai passport has expired. 

 

The British FCO can't do anything, he's not classed as a British Citizen while in the country of his alternate nationality.

 

It never ceases to surprise me the degree to which issues will be twisted to suit ones bias and flame away. This is nothing to do with the FCO.

  “Her Britannic Majesty’s Secretary of State requests and requires in the name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary”.

  That’s why. Now if the boy had committed a crime while in Thailand that would be different, but he had not. The FCO, on behalf of the British Sovereign, has at the very least an obligation to ensure that the bearer of a British passport may “pass freely without let or hindrance” and be afforded “such assistance.....as may be necessary”. They may not be able to change Thai rules, but some representation on the boy’s behalf would have been required at the very least, otherwise the words in your passport mean nothing.

 

The hands of the FCO are tied in such circumstances.... They are unable to help. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship

 

Quote

Travelling abroad

As a dual national you cannot get diplomatic help from the British government when you are in the other country where you hold citizenship.

For example, if you hold both British and Chinese citizenship you cannot get diplomatic help from the UK when you’re in China.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by richard_smith237

[genf]

Guys, FYI, as long as the boy's Thai passport remains valid on his way back to the UK, the check-in staff would not care much about how long the remaining validity is left on his passport because he is on his way back home. Everyone at the check-in counter knows that and since he has dual nationality therefore the airline can be safe from getting a hefty fine in the UK. Also, he would not be classed as a tourist that means the blanket rule of more than 6 months validity on passport does not apply to him. 

 

The Thai immigration law clearly states that people with dual citizenship (travelling using two passports MUST enter and exit the country with the same passport. They can NEVER use one to enter and the other to exit. The problem arose when he entered Thailand on his Thai passport (regardless of its validity) but tried to switch to British passport (*nationality*) instead when it was found out that his Thai passport had expired. After he was refused to check-in, the family started to make a big fuss about it.

That was a breach of the Thai immigration law.

 

The UKVI has the same rule on this matter, it comes under the term "Contriving to frustrate the intention of the rules"

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/frustrating-the-intentions-of-the-immigration-rules-rfl07-paragraph-32011/frustrating-the-intentions-of-the-immigration-rules-rfl07-paragraph-32011

3. RFL7.3 What are aggravating circumstances?

Please note that the list below is not an exhaustive list. Aggravating circumstances can include actions such as:  

*switching of nationality*

There is no doubt that Thai check-in staff and IM officer were doing their job properly according to the immigration rules.  

[watcharacters]

2 hours ago, ravip said:

 I still say it's over and they moved on with the matter.

 

Of course not. Only 190 posts and 13 pages - gotta do better!

 

 

Yeah,   Ya wud  think it otta be worth at least 325.

[bkk_mike]

Just my two-pence worth.

 

I actually ran into a similar situation with my daughter when we lived in Thailand, but it's a few years ago now...

 

When we originally booked our flights from Bangkok to London, her Thai passport was still valid, but we had to change our flights to a few days later, when her British passport was still valid, but her Thai passport literally expired in those three days.

Immigration hummed and hawed, but eventually let us through and onto the plane.

 

(I think it was because of the reason we had to change flights - I'm trying hard to remember if it was the Icelandic volcano, or the flooding in 2011 - we've flown a lot over the years...).

[gk10002000]

as others have posted, the interesting lesson here, besides the 6 month thingy, is switching passports during travel and the possible or known issues and pros and cons of doing that.  I know several people have posted they have done it. 

[hotchilli]

On 8/3/2018 at 3:37 PM, ThreeEyedRaven said:

That is what the first post said. He got in because he showed the Thai passport, where expiry after entry was not an issue. Any foreign passport about to expire and he wouldn't have got in in the first place. Same thing all around the world, so nothing unusual about the immigration reaction. You can't exit a country on a foreign passport if you don't have an entry stamp in it.

I hope they manage to get a new one and be on their way soon, but this is their fault for not bothering to check the expiration.

Exactly... you cannot enter a country on one passport & leave using another... 
immigration would need to check you entry stamp upon exiting to check your not overdue!

Own-goal "jock"

[dave moir]

So the Thai authorities refused to accept his BRITISH passport! So on looking at it they have used his Thai passport to enter the country and because the Thai passport had expired tried to use his British passport to return to the UK why didn't they just use his British passport to enter the country??! Would have saved a lot of time and hassle!

[Veritas48]

He has obviously entered Thailand on his Thai passport and really the immigration officer should have spotted that the passport was near to expiry and spoken out....however TIT.The law in Thailand is that you must leave on the same passport that you arrived with....it happened to me and my son a few years ago and we got a renewal the next day(express satang!)and flew out immediately.

[Just Weird]

16 hours ago, overherebc said:

So if the father was fined for overstay it would appear that's being done at check in now.

In your mind, maybe. 

 

Ever consider the glaringly obvious possibility that the father didn't get his extension at the same time that his son was being refused check-in and paid his overstay fine at an Immigration office?

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Veritas48 said:

He has obviously entered Thailand on his Thai passport and really the immigration officer should have spotted that the passport was near to expiry and spoken out....however TIT.

It is not the IO's job to check that every traveler knows the expiry date of their own passport!  How long do you want the queues to be?   He had no obligation to mention it, perhaps the passport holder should have spotted that the passport was near to expiry?  However This Is Thaivisa.

[metisdead]

Some more off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

A post containing a link to another forum has been removed:

 

13) You will not post links to other Thailand forums, or forums which could reasonably be construed as competition to Thaivisa.com or its sponsors.
 

[overherebc]

54 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

In your mind, maybe. 

 

Ever consider the glaringly obvious possibility that the father didn't get his extension at the same time that his son was being refused check-in and paid his overstay fine at an Immigration office?

True.

Can I mention that the newspaper uses the word authorities and would you accept that gives the impression of Imm' rather than airline staff.

I'm fairly sure that when it was mentioned at check in if cool heads prevailed and someone approached an Immigration officer with a pleasant attitude then sympathy would have been shown.

A calm attitude with an admission of being wrong and asking nicely for help would have resolved this and they would have been on the way home wiser and  not so much out of pocket.

We don't know how it was handled or if they approached Imm' or not, the newspaper doesn't mention it. I have my own thoughts on the reaction that came about but I won't post them.

[Just Weird]

12 minutes ago, overherebc said:

True.

Can I mention that the newspaper uses the word authorities and would you accept that gives the impression of Imm' rather than airline staff.

I'm fairly sure that when it was mentioned at check in if cool heads prevailed and someone approached an Immigration officer with a pleasant attitude then sympathy would have been shown.

A calm attitude with an admission of being wrong and asking nicely for help would have resolved this and they would have been on the way home wiser and  not so much out of pocket.

We don't know how it was handled or if they approached Imm' or not, the newspaper doesn't mention it. I have my own thoughts on the reaction that came about but I won't post them.

No, sorry, I can't accept that as the link clearly states "airport staff at check in"..."When checking in they were stopped by airport staff who recognised Max’s Thai passport had expired during their stay".

 

"I'm fairly sure that when it was mentioned at check in if cool heads prevailed and someone approached an Immigration officer with a pleasant attitude then sympathy would have been shown".
Why?  You don't really think that anyone should be allowed to travel on a invalid passport, do you?  Imagine the repercussions if something went wrong after an IO had shown his sympathy!

[overherebc]

40 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

No, sorry, I can't accept that as the link clearly states "airport staff at check in"..."When checking in they were stopped by airport staff who recognised Max’s Thai passport had expired during their stay".

 

"I'm fairly sure that when it was mentioned at check in if cool heads prevailed and someone approached an Immigration officer with a pleasant attitude then sympathy would have been shown".
Why?  You don't really think that anyone should be allowed to travel on a invalid passport, do you?  Imagine the repercussions if something went wrong after an IO had shown his sympathy!

Wow.  What could have gone wrong?

A senior IO could have ok'd it, the kid gets a boarding card and flies home.

They have the authority to refuse entry to people with a valid visa so surely they have the authority to allow the kid to go 'home.'

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

 I have my own thoughts on the reaction that came about but I won't post them.

You just did.

[evadgib]

The reporter should also note the difference between the Crusoe-esque 'stranded' and being mearly inconvienienced by a self inflicted own goal.

Edited August 5, 2018 by evadgib

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The reporter should also note the difference between the Crusoe-esque 'stranded' and being mearly inconvienienced by a self inflicted own goal.

If those involved had resolved it at the airport ( note 'if' ) would we have seen a report in the  newspaper on how kind the authorities were in allowing the kid to fly 'home' ?????

[overherebc]

24 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The reporter should also note the difference between the Crusoe-esque 'stranded' and being mearly inconvienienced by a self inflicted own goal.

Sort of conveys the impression of living in the airport, forget the name of the Tom Hanks movie.

[balo]

So what was the outcome of this ? Are they still at the airport? 

 

[khundon]

My wife and son both have dual Uk/Thai nationality and passports 

They entered Thailand last week with my son using his British passport and my wife on her Thai passport, this was because my sons passport runs out during their visit and they will renew it in London when they come back. 

A simple check by this family, would have told them to either enter Thailand on his British passport or renew his Thai passport whilst they were there. 

An expensive mistake for all. 

Can’t blame Thai immigration, the same applies in almost every country. 

 

 

[Rhys]

Prior planning?

[Margita]

On 8/4/2018 at 4:44 PM, Media1 said:

The UK will quickly rectify a stranded family.. Thai will drag it out. That's waist I say. Seen it before useless they are jokers

I dont know what happens in UK in Sweden you could get temporary passport at airport ( at least before) so that had been no problem,

[Galactus]

passport is a 'personal travel document'

so very clear, if there is a problem with your passport, it is your responsibility.

why blame Thai for this???

and tell me, what happens if this was lets say Heathrow or JFK Airport? will they just rectify the problem??? and let you leave?

no need for double standards. One should know his son's passport expiry date as he is too young for these.

[Veritas48]

On 8/5/2018 at 10:58 AM, Just Weird said:

It is not the IO's job to check that every traveler knows the expiry date of their own passport!  How long do you want the queues to be?   He had no obligation to mention it, perhaps the passport holder should have spotted that the passport was near to expiry?  However This Is Thaivisa.

What is their job then?Why do they scrutinise passports..just to look at all the nice stamps?People make mistakes it's called human error...that's why the IO should check expiry dates align with departure dates..OK?

[overherebc]

On 8/5/2018 at 10:24 AM, balo said:

So what was the outcome of this ? Are they still at the airport? 

 

Hope not. That would longer than Tom Hanks.