I just finished a 48 hour intermittent fast (IF)

[robblok]

2 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Thanks for contributing your own personal story. I can now live in hope that my Tinnitus might one day mysteriously disappear for whatever, possibly unknown, reason. ????

 

My story's a bit different. I never experienced any major shock when changing my lifestyle and eating habits, possibly because I've always had a tendency to eat wholesome foods and take vitamin supplements. My gradual increase in weight seems to have coincided with my increased drinking of wine and beer when living and working in the hot climate of Northern Australia where beer was a terrific thirst quencher.  ????  However, the shift to a more sedentary job would also have contributed.

 

When I later attempted to stop drinking, perhaps to prove to myself that I wasn't an alcoholic, but also because I was aware of the claimed negative health effects of excessive drinking, and of the benefits of at least giving the body a rest from alcohol consumption for a certain period now and again, I noticed that after a month or so of complete abstention, I had lost a significant amount of weight, despite eating as normal.

 

When I resumed drinking again, I noticed that I began putting the weight back on. However, it wasn't until I later came across the BMI method of determining more precisely how much one is overweight, that I realized, with a shock, that I was carrying the equivalent of a 20kg suitcase (spread over my body) with every step that I took. ????

 

I decided to get my weight down from around the usual 95kg to the BMI recommendation of around 75kg, for my height of 1.8 metres. (This calculation doesn't apply to body-builders of course. But I'm not a body builder. My exercise consists of regular walks which include brief periods of jogging, usually uphill now and again to get myself really out of breath and panting hard, and working on my property, cutting down trees, pushing wheel barrows, lifting heavy logs, and so on.)

 

Because I'd had practice in stopping drinking before, I was able to stop for a whole year without much problem. In addition I went on periodic fasts, initially for 23 hours, and then longer as I got used to it.
However there's one other factor I should mention that might have made my fasting much easier. Saffron.
Around this time that I was reading about the benefits of fasting, I also came across a 'double blind' scientific study on the benefits of Saffron in reducing the effects of macular degeneration as one gets older.

 

The group of elderlies that were taking the real 'saffron extract' pills showed a noticeable improvement in their eyesight after a few months, compared with those who were taking the placebo. Since I'm interested in Photography and value my eyesight, I began taking regular quantities of Saffron filaments. It was only later, when searching for the best price on the internet (because Saffron can be very expensive) that I came across the fact that most people were using Saffron supplements to reduce their appetite, to make it easier to cut down on their food intake and lose weight.

Its good that you too charge and changed your life. BMI is a bad tool, but its good for the average population. 

 

I don't think fasting is the way to go for weight loss, but it can help kickstart it.

 

I have found that some supplements do in fact reduce appetite, i used to be much hungrier then now but I seem to have no problems with eating only a little bit. For me the physilium husk / inulin / berberine / cummercin / ashwagandha might have something to do with it but I am not sure. 

 

But whatever helps is a good thing of course. I tried other supplements before but they did not help me like this. But what works for me does not mean it works for someone else.

 

[WaveHunter]

3 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Thanks for contributing your own personal story. I can now live in hope that my Tinnitus might one day mysteriously disappear for whatever, possibly unknown, reason. ????

 

My story's a bit different. I never experienced any major shock when changing my lifestyle and eating habits, possibly because I've always had a tendency to eat wholesome foods and take vitamin supplements. My gradual increase in weight seems to have coincided with my increased drinking of wine and beer when living and working in the hot climate of Northern Australia where beer was a terrific thirst quencher.  ????  However, the shift to a more sedentary job would also have contributed.

 

When I later attempted to stop drinking, perhaps to prove to myself that I wasn't an alcoholic, but also because I was aware of the claimed negative health effects of excessive drinking, and of the benefits of at least giving the body a rest from alcohol consumption for a certain period now and again, I noticed that after a month or so of complete abstention, I had lost a significant amount of weight, despite eating as normal.

 

When I resumed drinking again, I noticed that I began putting the weight back on. However, it wasn't until I later came across the BMI method of determining more precisely how much one is overweight, that I realized, with a shock, that I was carrying the equivalent of a 20kg suitcase (spread over my body) with every step that I took. ????

 

I decided to get my weight down from around the usual 95kg to the BMI recommendation of around 75kg, for my height of 1.8 metres. (This calculation doesn't apply to body-builders of course. But I'm not a body builder. My exercise consists of regular walks which include brief periods of jogging, usually uphill now and again to get myself really out of breath and panting hard, and working on my property, cutting down trees, pushing wheel barrows, lifting heavy logs, and so on.)

 

Because I'd had practice in stopping drinking before, I was able to stop for a whole year without much problem. In addition I went on periodic fasts, initially for 23 hours, and then longer as I got used to it.
However there's one other factor I should mention that might have made my fasting much easier. Saffron.
Around this time that I was reading about the benefits of fasting, I also came across a 'double blind' scientific study on the benefits of Saffron in reducing the effects of macular degeneration as one gets older.

 

The group of elderlies that were taking the real 'saffron extract' pills showed a noticeable improvement in their eyesight after a few months, compared with those who were taking the placebo. Since I'm interested in Photography and value my eyesight, I began taking regular quantities of Saffron filaments. It was only later, when searching for the best price on the internet (because Saffron can be very expensive) that I came across the fact that most people were using Saffron supplements to reduce their appetite, to make it easier to cut down on their food intake and lose weight.

There are so many mysterious maladies like tinnitus that seem to defy explanation.  Sometimes the best you can do is just learn to live with it.  I think it's remarkable how adaptable we can be to things like that.  I remember when it first started happening, I was pretty upset by it. 

 

In retrospect, I think I was more upset by the fact that I didn't understand WHY it was happening, and by my frustration at not being able to find an answer to this question than I was with the actual symptoms.  

 

Over time I really had no choice but accept it and just not be so hung up by it.  I think it's really remarkable how we can adapt to things like that. 

 

When it finally went away for good, it wasn't really a life-changing event for me.  I don't know how much time went by before I actually realized it wasn't bothering me anymore.  I just remember thinking one day, "gee, I can't remember the last time I had ringing in my ears". 

 

With things like tinnitus, it's only natural to assume there must be a physiological basis for it, without taking into account the psychological basis.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that things like tinnitus might be psychosomatic to a greater degree than many people realize.  Maybe someday science will be able to address such psychosomatic states.  For now though, it's kind of humbling to realize how little we really know about our own bodies, BUT at the same time, the remarkable capacity our bodies have for dealing with these kind of things, if we only let it "do it's thing"

Edited March 12, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Its good that you too charge and changed your life. BMI is a bad tool, but its good for the average population. 

 

I don't think fasting is the way to go for weight loss, but it can help kickstart it.

 

I have found that some supplements do in fact reduce appetite, i used to be much hungrier then now but I seem to have no problems with eating only a little bit. For me the physilium husk / inulin / berberine / cummercin / ashwagandha might have something to do with it but I am not sure. 

 

But whatever helps is a good thing of course. I tried other supplements before but they did not help me like this. But what works for me does not mean it works for someone else.

 

Somebody once told me something that I really like when it comes to the efficacy of different benchmarks like BMI and and getting all hung up with other sophisticated metrics for determining proper weight, body composition, etc. 

 

The BEST tool in the world is simply a full-body mirror!  Seeing your body with no clothes on, tells you EVERYTHING you need to know LOL????

Edited March 12, 2019 by WaveHunter

[FracturedRabbit]

15 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Somebody once told me something that I really like when it comes to the efficacy of different benchmarks like BMI and and getting all hung up with other sophisticated metrics for determining proper weight, body composition, etc. 

 

The BEST tool in the world is simply a full-body mirror!  Seeing your body with no clothes on, tells you EVERYTHING you need to know LOL????

I tried that, couldn't sleep for days!

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Somebody once told me something that I really like when it comes to the efficacy of different benchmarks like BMI and and getting all hung up with other sophisticated metrics for determining proper weight, body composition, etc. 

 

The BEST tool in the world is simply a full-body mirror!  Seeing your body with no clothes on, tells you EVERYTHING you need to know LOL????

This period I went visual instead of scales + a centimeter and belt to see progress. It works good. Also motivated me to shed the fat.

 

Now the last little bit and hardest part from slim to lean. Now I am mainly looking at my lower abs and fat near the belly button. I would say between the muscle and the belly button there is a about a cm fat (not all the way round but that area). As i can remember getting that to get less took the longest.

[WaveHunter]

7 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said:

I tried that, couldn't sleep for days!

Yeah, it's pretty sobering...the mirror doesn't lie LOL! 

[WaveHunter]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

This period I went visual instead of scales + a centimeter and belt to see progress. It works good. Also motivated me to shed the fat.

 

Now the last little bit and hardest part from slim to lean. Now I am mainly looking at my lower abs and fat near the belly button. I would say between the muscle and the belly button there is a about a cm fat (not all the way round but that area). As i can remember getting that to get less took the longest.

A'int that always the case?!   It's like when you were in school; it was always pretty easy to be a "B" student rather than a "C" student, but the difference between being an "A" student rather than a "B" student was so much more incredibly hard to achieve.

Edited March 12, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

Totally off topic but wondering how many of you are in Chiang Mai, and if you are, what are your thoughts on the smoky season SMOKE!  It's my first year here to experience it and the last couple of days just plain SUCKS!  I'm leaving for 3 months in Pratumnak (part of Pattaya) next week, and this is the main reason why.

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Totally off topic but wondering how many of you are in Chiang Mai, and if you are, what are your thoughts on the smoky season SMOKE!  It's my first year here to experience it and the last couple of days just plain SUCKS!  I'm leaving for 3 months in Pratumnak (part of Pattaya) next week, and this is the main reason why.

I am in the outskirts of BKK, I bought a air filter to combat the bad air in the house. Xiaomi 2s air purifier. It seems to work but you can see how bad it is outside by how low my inhouse values become. (obviously the house is not airtight and my dog opens the door often. But at least it helps a bit.

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I am in the outskirts of BKK, I bought a air filter to combat the bad air in the house. Xiaomi 2s air purifier. It seems to work but you can see how bad it is outside by how low my inhouse values become. (obviously the house is not airtight and my dog opens the door often. But at least it helps a bit.

I'm not sure if you are aware of the special problems in Chinag Mai I'm speaking of.  Every year the farmers burn their fields (corn primarily) since it is "slash and burn" agriculture up here.  There are LOTS of farms.  It starts in late February and usually is over by early May.  Since Chinag Mai is in a valley surrounded by mountains, all that smokes just accumulates over time. 

 

It gets so bad, visibility can be so low as a few hundred feet!  It's just unbelievable!   It makes smoggy Los Angeles seem like the setting for "Little House on the Prairie" by comparison LOL! 

 

Some people actually get very sick from it winding up in the hospital.  At the very least it is incredibly unhealthy.  I'm a little hazy on the scale they use to measure particulate pollution but a reading of 50 is considered very unhealthy.  In Chaing Mai during smoke season it can be around 200!

Edited March 12, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

I'm not sure if you are aware of the special problems in Chinag Mai I'm speaking of.  Every year the farmers burn their fields (corn primarily) since it is "slash and burn" agriculture up here.  There are LOTS of farms.  It starts in late February and usually is over by early May.  Since Chinag Mai is in a valley surrounded by mountains, all that smokes just accumulates over time.  It gets so bad, visibility can be so low as a few hundred feet!  It's just unbelievable!    It makes Los Angeles seem like the setting for "Little House on the Prairie" LOL!  Some people actually get very sick from it winding up in the hospital.  At the very least it is incredibly unhealthy.

I know about Chiang Mai, and its pollution but for a while it was bad in Bangkok too. That is why i bought the air purifier. I made my fair share of comments on slash and burn stuff.

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, WaveHunter said:

It gets so bad, visibility can be so low as a few hundred feet!  It's just unbelievable!   It makes smoggy Los Angeles seem like the setting for "Little House on the Prairie" by comparison LOL! 

 

Some people actually get very sick from it winding up in the hospital.  At the very least it is incredibly unhealthy.  I'm a little hazy on the scale they use to measure particulate pollution but a reading of 50 is considered very unhealthy.  In Chaing Mai during smoke season it can be around 200!

This is the main obstacle to my retirement in Thailand. It doesn't make much sense to relocate to a country where one is regularly exposed to dangerous pollution levels at certain times of the year, if one is already concerned about one's health and grateful for good health, eating wholesome food and exercising regularly.

 

I prefer just to visit Thailand now and again, during months when the air is relatively clean, during the wet season for example.

[WaveHunter]

HOW NOT TO DIE - I wanted to post this...for what it's worth to you guys.  A friend just asked my advice on going "plant based" nutritionally for better health and I suggested she read a book I've always thought very highly of.  I thought I'd share this here.

 

 I was lucky to have had a family physician who was VERY much into proactively guiding her patients towards healthy lifestyles rather than just reaching for her prescription pad when things went bad.  She steered me towards a more plant-based diet, and recommended that I read a book called "How Not to Die" by Dr. Michael Gregor. 

 

As morbid as the title sounds, it is really an amazing book!  I highly recommend it to anyone and everyone who really cares about their health.   I think it is probably the best book on nutrition I have ever read.  It's not just a checklist of "superfoods" or dopey fad diets that many health gurus tout (often for their own personal gain). 

 

Gregor is a pretty smart guy and everything he talks about , he also backs up with sound science.  It's an amazing in-depth book that's actually very easy to digest!  Check it out on Amazon.  It's very rare to see a book on Amazon rated so incredibly high.  When you read some of the reviews I think you'll see why I like it.  I guarantee that many of the things he has to say will definitely surprise you!

 

Just click the link to see it on Amazon ????  

How Not to Die: Discover the Foods Scientifically Proven to Prevent and Reverse Disease

 

 

Edited March 13, 2019 by WaveHunter

[FracturedRabbit]

9 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

HOW NOT TO DIE - I wanted to post this...for what it's worth to you guys.  A friend just asked my advice on going "plant based" nutritionally for better health and I suggested she read a book I've always thought very highly of.  I thought I'd share this here.

 

 I was lucky to have had a family physician who was VERY much into proactively guiding her patients towards healthy lifestyles rather than just reaching for her prescription pad when things went bad.  She steered me towards a more plant-based diet, and recommended that I read a book called "How Not to Die" by Dr. Michael Gregor. 

 

As morbid as the title sounds, it is really an amazing book!  I highly recommend it to anyone and everyone who really cares about their health.   I think it is probably the best book on nutrition I have ever read.  It's not just a checklist of "superfoods" or dopey fad diets that many health gurus tout (often for their own personal gain). 

 

Gregor is a pretty smart guy and everything he talks about , he also backs up with sound science.  It's an amazing in-depth book that's actually very easy to digest!  Check it out on Amazon.  It's very rare to see a book on Amazon rated so incredibly high.  When you read some of the reviews I think you'll see why I like it.  I guarantee that many of the things he has to say will definitely surprise you!

 

Just click the link to see it on Amazon ????  

How Not to Die: Discover the Foods Scientifically Proven to Prevent and Reverse Disease

 

 

Not sure what this has to do with fasting... However, Dr. Greger does produce some interesting material; but it is very slanted towards vegetarian/vegan lifestyles to the extent he has been accused of cherry picking studies to support his claims. You won't find him discussing the merits of a carnivore diet for example!

[robblok]

10 hours ago, FracturedRabbit said:

Not sure what this has to do with fasting... However, Dr. Greger does produce some interesting material; but it is very slanted towards vegetarian/vegan lifestyles to the extent he has been accused of cherry picking studies to support his claims. You won't find him discussing the merits of a carnivore diet for example!

Isn't cherry picking something almost everyone of those diet guru's do. I don't see too many posts about bad things about low carb on low carb guru's. Same as that I don't believe what all those bodybuilding sites try to say about how much protein is needed.  Also its funny to see how professionals on the body building sites have totally opposing opinions on exercise and diet. They both build their case good. Honestly I don't trust any of them, low carb guru's, bodybuilding sites that pimp supplements and books like this. 

 

Problem is that there is so much research you can almost always find something that proves what you want. Not to mention by setting up a test in a certain way you can influence the outcome. There are but a few people who i trust for being independent and coming out with good research. 

 

Almost every diet guru / bodybuilding site comes with nice research proving their point but how much does it all really matter. I have yet to see revolutionary results from any of them. Low carb the best ever (a bit better in some tests) They write as if its going to double your fat loss while in the end the differences are 5-10% max over time. Same goes for bodybuilding and their proteins, take it at this time and... bla bla. Sure it works but you just don't notice it as advertised.

 

I would say they are all promising too much and all slanted towards whatever they support. Because IMHO 80% of your results comes from the basics (eating less working out hard).. and then getting that extra 10-15% of results could be achieved if you fine tune it. But all of them act as if it is the other way around.. 80% because of whatever they promote instead of a much lower percentage.

 

Just venting a bit, as I seen a lot both diet and exercise wise and NOTHING has ever been as advertised. I still read all the stuff and make my own judgement about it. But I stopped thinking there are miracles available. 

 

Having said that creatine works for me, gives me around a 10% extra power output. One of the few things that actually do as promised. But it does not work for everyone as some people get enough creatine from their diet. Plus creatine is for explosive strength not aerobic exercise. 

 

I also did notice that carbs are important before and during training. But we are talking about 10% maybe and a better feeling. (for explosive training). I am talking about my case here. Others might have different experienced. I don't know how much it influences muscle building (again something that is supposed to be much better with carbs) but I suspect the differences might not be much either. 

 

My main point is that most of them if not all they cherry pick or discredit studies that do not see it their way. The research lets them as there is much conflicting information out there. Plus all of them one way or an other make money from their website, the advice they give.. speaking at conventions ect. All seem to (in general) over state their claims. 

[VincentRJ]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Problem is that there is so much research you can almost always find something that proves what you want. Not to mention by setting up a test in a certain way you can influence the outcome. There are but a few people who i trust for being independent and coming out with good research. 

 

My main point is that most of them if not all they cherry pick or discredit studies that do not see it their way. The research lets them as there is much conflicting information out there. Plus all of them one way or an other make money from their website, the advice they give.. speaking at conventions ect. All seem to (in general) over state their claims. 

The cause of the problem is the complexity and variability of the human genome, the differences in the upbringing and conditioning of each individual, and the differences in the lifestyle of each individual. It's just too expensive and too difficult to conduct long-term tests of groups of human individuals who are all eating the same food, doing the same amount of exercise and leading the same lifestyle. 

 

The process of the 'methodology of science', in its most rigorous form, requires that everything remains the same except for the one variable that one is testing, such as a food or supplement.

 

As a result, there is often a lack of certainty, and different tests of different groups can result in different outcomes. A bit like climate change. ????

[WaveHunter]

23 hours ago, FracturedRabbit said:

Not sure what this has to do with fasting... However, Dr. Greger does produce some interesting material; but it is very slanted towards vegetarian/vegan lifestyles to the extent he has been accused of cherry picking studies to support his claims. You won't find him discussing the merits of a carnivore diet for example!

What does this have to do with fasting?  Everything, actually.  

 

I think your nutritional strategy after fasting is more important than the fast itself.  They go hand-in-hand.  The whole reason for fasting is to reset the body at the metabolic level.  It’s pointless to fast, if you don’t follow up with a healthy nutritional strategy.

 

Gregor’s book offers a scientifically sound facts so that YOU (not the author) can decide  on a strategy that works for the reader.  Unlike typical “guru” books he doesn’t give you some silly little action plan, but rather he presents  facts in a way that makes you think, question, and explore further.

 

 I don’t like some of what he says (or doesn’t say), but it gave me a sound, science-based framework to explore for answers that worked for me.  

 

Is it the end-all, be-all best thing ever written on nutrition that will stand the test of time?  I doubt it, but it sparked something in me to change my ways, and so that’s its real value, in my opinion.

 

I don’t blindly accept ANY author’s words as the gospel truth.  Nobody should, and nobody should expect to find the right solution  for their own situation from any one source.  Only lazy, ignorant people read one book on nutrition and think it has all the answers.

 

Eating “right” is probably the single most important way to stay healthy.  Of course, what constitutes “right” is far from black and white.  

 

Nutritional Science is in a constant state of flux.  High-carb vs low-carb, carb rich vs fat rich, low calorie vs low glycemic load, good fats vs bad fats....  The list goes on and on.  How do you know who’s right and who’s wrong?  You don’t.  It up to YOU to make that decision.  

 

I like Gregor’s book NOT because I think he’s right about everything; I like the book because it presents a fairly unbiased picture.  Even if you know the author’s feeling, it doesn’t try to ram his point of view down your throat.  Instead it makes you think, to question, and to make up your own mind.  Gregor is in a class one cut above the guru-type authors, and I think this book doesn’t just try to give you a simple “overnight” plan but rather, it makes you think, question, and seek answers.

 

Bottom line, the reason I posted this is simply that fasting is totally meaningless if you don’t follow through with a sound nutritional strategy afterwards.  Gregors book gives you what you need to create your own blueprint for that.  You can nitpick the details of what he advocates, but I don’t see how a person could go wrong adopting it.

Edited March 14, 2019 by WaveHunter

[VincentRJ]

5 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Bottom line, the reason I posted this is simply that fasting is totally meaningless if you don’t follow through with a sound nutritional strategy afterwards.  Gregors book gives you what you need to create your own blueprint for that.  You can nitpick the details of what he advocates, but I don’t see how a person could go wrong adopting it.

I don't think that fasting is totally meaningless if you don't follow through with a sound nutritional strategy afterwards. Fasting still has its benefits, even if you insist on eating chips, hamburgers and ice cream.

 

Fasting regularly for at least a 24 hour period once a week, or a 48 hour period every fortnight, would still have some benefits, allowing the body to fix or mitigate some of the problems resulting from a bad diet.

 

However, I would agree that it would not be sensible or logical to strive to overcome the difficulties and challenges of a fasting strategy, whilst ignoring the additional benefits of a good diet.

[robblok]

10 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

 

 

Bottom line, the reason I posted this is simply that fasting is totally meaningless if you don’t follow through with a sound nutritional strategy afterwards.  Gregors book gives you what you need to create your own blueprint for that.  You can nitpick the details of what he advocates, but I don’t see how a person could go wrong adopting it.

Fasting is just something you can do to add benefits for health, but if you screw your body up with a bad diet the effects from a fast are not going to help you.

 

Its like a pyramid, fix the important things first then fine tune. Fasting is much higher up the pyramid then eating good food. Eating right is at the basis and has the most benefits, higher up you got fasting giving some extra benefits but far less then just eating good. 

 

Just going after fasting is like deciding to take a high octane fuel for your car to improve performance while you havent taken the handbrakes off. It just makes no sense not to first go after things that give a far larger benefit. 

[robblok]

13 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

The cause of the problem is the complexity and variability of the human genome, the differences in the upbringing and conditioning of each individual, and the differences in the lifestyle of each individual. It's just too expensive and too difficult to conduct long-term tests of groups of human individuals who are all eating the same food, doing the same amount of exercise and leading the same lifestyle. 

 

The process of the 'methodology of science', in its most rigorous form, requires that everything remains the same except for the one variable that one is testing, such as a food or supplement.

 

As a result, there is often a lack of certainty, and different tests of different groups can result in different outcomes. A bit like climate change. ????

I wish it was only that, sometimes research is also abused.  Yes your right about expensive. The best thing to put the low carb vs other diets to bed would be a year long in house (locked up food controlled) comparison of different diets. That would be too expensive (and I would want to have exercise added ect ect). Its too expensive. 

 

Too bad there are no go fund me pages for that, I would definitely pay for good research. 

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Fasting is just something you can do to add benefits for health, but if you screw your body up with a bad diet the effects from a fast are not going to help you.

I don't think that's true, at least according to my understanding of the research on fasting that I've come across.

 

Fasting allows the body to fix or at least reduce any emerging problems, whether or not those problems are directly related to a bad diet. Fasting is claimed even to be able to cure cancer.

 

In terms of diet and fasting, I would suggest the following hierarchy is applicable.
1. Good diet plus regular, periodic fasting of 24 hours or more. Best of all.
2. Good diet but no fasting, second best.
3. Junk food diet with periodic fasting, third best.
4. Junk food diet with no fasting, which is the lifestyle of most people, worst of all.

 

Of course, regular exercise will add health benefit to all of the four situations above.

[robblok]

Just now, VincentRJ said:

I don't think that's true, at least according to my understanding of the research on fasting that I've come across.

 

Fasting allows the body to fix or at least reduce any emerging problems, whether or not those problems are directly related to a bad diet. Fasting is claimed even to be able to cure cancer.

 

In terms of diet and fasting, I would suggest the following hierarchy is applicable.
1. Good diet plus regular, periodic fasting of 24 hours or more. Best of all.
2. Good diet but no fasting, second best.
3. Junk food diet with periodic fasting, third best.
4. Junk food diet with no fasting, which is the lifestyle of most people, worst of all.

 

Of course, regular exercise will add health benefit to all of the four situations above.

That is what I am saying, but your over stating what fasting does. I would say the biggest improvements come from a good diet (much more improvement then fasting could ever do). 

 

I am not saying that fasting does not do a thing, but it pales in comparison to a good diet. Why worry about something that has minor (compared to diet) advantages when you haven't gotten the things that bring major advantages under control. 

 

It would be like changing the frame on your bike to a lighter one for a better ride without first putting air in your flat tires. Fix the big problems first then fine tune things.

 

That is my opinion anyway. 

[brokenbone]

well, i ended it today,, i can use my clothes again easily,

altogether i lost 22 kg, but i havnt got the determination to starve any longer, havnt had it for over a week,

the poor results lately due to increased food just makes it feel even shittier. i notice the apples makes any other restriction moot, must be a shedload of sugar in fruits

[FracturedRabbit]

4 hours ago, brokenbone said:

well, i ended it today,, i can use my clothes again easily,

altogether i lost 22 kg, but i havnt got the determination to starve any longer, havnt had it for over a week,

the poor results lately due to increased food just makes it feel even shittier. i notice the apples makes any other restriction moot, must be a shedload of sugar in fruits

Congratulations! 22Kg is quite an achievement.

 

 Berries will give you less of a sugar rush than other fruits.

[robblok]

18 hours ago, brokenbone said:

well, i ended it today,, i can use my clothes again easily,

altogether i lost 22 kg, but i havnt got the determination to starve any longer, havnt had it for over a week,

the poor results lately due to increased food just makes it feel even shittier. i notice the apples makes any other restriction moot, must be a shedload of sugar in fruits

Too long a diet is always hard, especially if it is extreme. Problem now will be keeping the weight off. 

[brokenbone]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Too long a diet is always hard, especially if it is extreme. Problem now will be keeping the weight off. 

luckily i now know an old man need very little food,

its not much of a discomfort eating just twice a day now.

its not really about hunger but lack of stimulus.

i do wonder, how poisonous is it to eat a slice of salami

perhaps once every 2nd hour ?

Edited March 16, 2019 by brokenbone

[WaveHunter]

On 3/15/2019 at 3:50 AM, VincentRJ said:

I don't think that fasting is totally meaningless if you don't follow through with a sound nutritional strategy afterwards. Fasting still has its benefits, even if you insist on eating chips, hamburgers and ice cream.

With all respect I disagree.  Many people assign all sorts of lofty benefits to fasting that just don’t exist.  

 

Some will say fasting rids the body of environmental toxins.  Not true.  Some people think of water fasting as a way to burn off excess fat.  Very few people succeed with that.  

 

The only science-based benefit of fasting is that it induces autophagy, which essentially rids the body of dysfunctional proteins (RNA) that seem to be the basis of metabolic-related disease.

 

Much of the research in the last decade into diseases such as diabetes, many types of cancer, and even Alzheimer’s disease is pointing at metabolic syndrome as an underlying cause.  In fact some researchers are now referring to Alzheimer’s as Diabetes type 3, and dysfunctioning RNA proteins seem to be the real underlying culprits.

 

In simple terms, fasting recycles these bad proteins during the period of time right before ketosis ramps up, but if you don’t follow up the fast by avoiding the foods that led to inflammation, you really accomplish nothing. 

 

What’s the point in going through the rigors of a fast if you are right back where you started?

Edited March 17, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

On 3/15/2019 at 6:57 PM, FracturedRabbit said:

Congratulations! 22Kg is quite an achievement.

 

 Berries will give you less of a sugar rush than other fruits.

I think the best way to view carbs is to be more concerned with the glycemic load of the carb in question rather than just think you need to avoid carbs altogether.  In other words, fruits are preferable to processed foods that contain high fructose corn syrup.  You can actually eat quite a bit of fruit without inducing insulin spikes.

[VincentRJ]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

With all respect I disagree.  Many people assign all sorts of lofty benefits to fasting that just don’t exist.  

Some will say fasting rids the body of environmental toxins.  Not true.  

I have no objection to your disagreeing. That's fine. However, for me, the issue is the quality of the evidence in support of your disagreement. I'm surprised you claim that fasting has no benefits for detoxification. Are you of this view because there are no scientific studies that have been carried out on this specific issue, or because there are specific scientific studies that debunk the claim?

 

The following general article includes detoxification as one of the benefits of fasting, with lots of references to scientific studies at the end. But I couldn't see any article which specifically addressed the detoxification issue in its title, and I haven't had time to wade through the articles, which might have a paywall.
https://www.libifit.com/autophagy-and-intermittent-fasting/

 

To quote:

"Are you struggling to detoxify your body naturally? Is a detox diet or a juice cleanse not working out for you? No need to worry. There is a proven process to help cleanse and detox your body. It involves autophagy and intermittent fasting and it helps to rid your body of harmful toxins, ignite weight loss, and renew your body."

 

Some people think of water fasting as a way to burn off excess fat.  Very few people succeed with that.

 

That water fasting is a way to burn off fat is surely indisputable. Nothing could be more certain. I've never come across any example of anyone not losing weight, or burning off excess fat after fasting. The longer you fast, the more weight or fat you lose. There's a documented case of an extremely obese person fasting for more than a whole year in order to get back to a normal weight, but under medical supervision of course, being prescribed vitamin supplements, or injections, now and again.

 

It's impossible not to lose weight if you fast. There are no failures. But there are people who fail to fast. There's the distinction.
 

[partington]

8 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

The only science-based benefit of fasting is that it induces autophagy, which essentially rids the body of dysfunctional proteins (RNA) that seem to be the basis of metabolic-related disease.

 

I don't know if you know but this is meaningless. RNA is not any kind of protein, good or bad. RNA is ribonucleic acid, which has no structural relationship with protein at all.

 

It's therefore difficult to say what you could possibly mean by saying RNA as a dysfunctional protein is the basis of metabolic-related diseases.

 

 Its like saying a dysfunctional cat (bicycle) is the basis of all  traffic accidents. It's just a lot of words strung together wrongly having no relation to fact.

 

Here are the four major different groups of biological molecules:

Edited March 18, 2019 by partington