Transferring a large sum from abroad - before GBP falls in Brexit

[mja1906]

Hi, my relatives will be transferring a large sum of money (4 mil THB) from UK to my Siam Commercial Bank soon. They are in a hurry to transfer bc of the GBP falling with Brexit. They eventually intend to buy property here. I will put in Thai husbands name, and do a usufruct or leasehold. They have not found any suitable property yet, but want to transfer the money first. Is there anything I should know or do beforehand? I guess when the transfer is made from UK end, to specify the reason of transfer as 'property' ? I consulted with a lawyer, and she said she often waits up until 1year after receiving funds to obtain an FET form (so I guess there's no immediate hurry for that ?).

[anon537687643]

Gotta be crazy to transfer to Thailand! Don’t build your hopes of ever getting it out again!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[KittenKong]

I would say that they probably already missed the boat with the drop in the value of the GBP. It was worth 20% more a couple of years ago. There is still hope that the totally insane Brexit vote will be reversed or abandoned, and that could see the GBP rise again.

 

Anyway, unless they are thinking of buying a condo (the only property they can legally own here) then the reason for the transfer is not important. However, to be on the safe side it wont hurt to write "condo purchase" as the reason. There is no requirement to actually use any money for the purpose given.

 

You should get the FET as soon as the transaction is completed. Why wait? The FET will allow them to export the money later if they want to, so it is very important to obtain it and keep it safe.

 

Bear in mind that the exchange rate given by your Thai bank is negotiable for large sums.

 

I must say that I am impressed by their courage in sending 4MB here to buy property in some Thai in-law's name. Or maybe courage is the wrong word.

[Delight]

 Are you satisfied that your relatives are buying efficiently

On  £100,000 transfer I would expect to get approx, 0.5 Baht less than  interbank

As I write this interbank is 43.1654 so I would expect 42.6654 or maybe slightly better.

I would not expect the best rate buying from a UK bank.

It is my view that if the UK has a no deal Brexit then 40 will be the new norm.

 

[swissie]

Let's see if I got this right.

Your relatives are sending money to your Thai-Account and then you put the money in the name of your Thai Husband?
Then you do a usufruct or a leasehold on the money(????) as there is no property involved yet?
USUFRUCT: = "Make use of something". I can imagine, that your Thai Husband would be extremly pleased to (legally) "make use" of someone elses money.

Seems to me the FET can wait. What can not wait, is a re-examination of your "transfer/ownership" concept of the money, above anything else at this time.
Cheers.

[swissie]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

I would say that they probably already missed the boat with the drop in the value of the GBP. It was worth 20% more a couple of years ago. There is still hope that the totally insane Brexit vote will be reversed or abandoned, and that could see the GBP rise again.

 

Anyway, unless they are thinking of buying a condo (the only property they can legally own here) then the reason for the transfer is not important. However, to be on the safe side it wont hurt to write "condo purchase" as the reason. There is no requirement to actually use any money for the purpose given.

 

You should get the FET as soon as the transaction is completed. Why wait? The FET will allow them to export the money later if they want to, so it is very important to obtain it and keep it safe.

 

Bear in mind that the exchange rate given by your Thai bank is negotiable for large sums.

 

I must say that I am impressed by their courage in sending 4MB here to buy property in some Thai in-law's name. Or maybe courage is the wrong word.

"Courage" is the wrong word.

[Delight]

12 minutes ago, swissie said:

Let's see if I got this right.

Your relatives are sending money to your Thai-Account and then you put the money in the name of your Thai Husband?
Then you do a usufruct or a leasehold on the money(????) as there is no property involved yet?
USUFRUCT: = "Make use of something". I can imagine, that your Thai Husband would be extremly pleased to (legally) "make use" of someone elses money.

Seems to me the FET can wait. What can not wait, is a re-examination of your "transfer/ownership" concept of the money, above anything else at this time.
Cheers.

 I think that you have read it wrong

 

The money will stay in her bank account -not her Thai husband

 

The intent is to buy a property for the relatives .

 

Their plan is to buy in the OP's husband name and simultaneously construct a Usufruct for the benefit of the relatives.

The money will never be put into the Thai man's bank

[ukrules]

Whatever you end up putting for the reason (personal is what I normally use) just make sure you send it as GBP and don't convert to Baht in the UK before sending it.

[swissie]

4 minutes ago, Delight said:

 I think that you have read it wrong

 

The money will stay in her bank account -not her Thai husband

 

The intent is to buy a property for the relatives .

 

Their plan is to buy in the OP's husband name and simultaneously construct a Usufruct for the benefit of the relatives.

The money will never be put into the Thai man's bank

If that's the case, I am somewhat relieved. THX & cheers.

[Delight]

 To answer your Q directly

Seems as if you have it covered

It is very easy to bring money into Thailand

The only way that you can easily repatriate funds is to buy a condo in a foreign name.

 

It is highly unlikely that your relatives will ever be able  repatriate the money back to the UK

 

I suspect that you know this already

 

 

 

[The Fat Controller]

I am pretty sure that a FET form is now REQUIRED for any incoming transfer with a value of more than 50,000 USD

 

Rates are certainly negotiable with Krung Thai Bank, although not by much, contact the relevant department at head office before the funds arrive and they will hold off on conversion until you call them.

 

Always send in Sterling !

 

The latest rates (TT) are available here

 

https://daytodaydata.net/

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

What a silly thread. 

 

The currency doesn't fall or raise after the fact. It happens way before the average insignificants have any time to react or profit.

 

If you are so sure, just short the GBP. You can make a lot of money.

[TommyUK1960]

Some talk of Brexit could   SUSPEND Article 50.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/999173/Brexit-News-Nigel-Farage-UK-EU-campaign-Article-50

 

Not sure how that would affect the pound

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, Delight said:

Their plan is to buy in the OP's husband name and simultaneously construct a Usufruct for the benefit of the relatives.

The money will never be put into the Thai man's bank

Semantics.

 

If the property paid for is in someone else's name then they have the money.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, Delight said:

It is very easy to bring money into Thailand

The only way that you can easily repatriate funds is to buy a condo in a foreign name.

Incorrect.

 

Buying a condo gives no such advantage. Having an FET gives the advantage. And it makes no difference at all what the purpose of the incoming transfer was.

[Delight]

7 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Incorrect.

 

Buying a condo gives no such advantage. Having an FET gives the advantage. And it makes no difference at all what the purpose of the incoming transfer was.

 Why incorrect?

Many farang that I know have bought in the 49% (which requires a FET ) and have sold and have easily repatriated

Not one Farang who purchased a property via a company  has easily repatriated the money.

Therefore I conclude that buying in the 49% has a  significant benefit. A foreign owned condo has a benefit when it comes to selling it.

 

In relation to the OP- in their (i.e the relatives) plan for house purchase -the funds can never go back -except via the spouse of the OP.

 

Given that -why is the OP planning to obtain a FET.Not necessary as part of the plan

Unless you know more about a wider benefit of the FET

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, Delight said:

Why incorrect?

Because it is having the FET that allows you to export your money, not owning a condo. Owning a condo is neither here nor there, except in as much as you have to have an FET to do so in your own name.

 

It doesnt matter what you do with the money as long as you have an FET. You could have bought a company-owned property, or a car or just left it in the bank. As long as you have the FET you can export that money again, but without an FET (or transfer advice note or, previously, a TT3) you may have difficulties for larger sums.

[Delight]

On 8/6/2018 at 6:08 PM, KittenKong said:

Because it is having the FET that allows you to export your money, not owning a condo. Owning a condo is neither here nor there, except in as much as you have to have an FET to do so in your own name.

 

It doesnt matter what you do with the money as long as you have an FET. You could have bought a company-owned property, or a car or just left it in the bank. As long as you have the FET you can export that money again, but without an FET (or transfer advice note or, previously, a TT3) you may have difficulties for larger sums.

 I have searched the net intensively and cannot see any reference to the use of a FET for any  purpose -other than it's association with condos.

Perhaps you could detail the source of your statement

[KittenKong]

59 minutes ago, Delight said:

 I have searched the net intensively and cannot see any reference to the use of a FET for any  purpose -other than it's association with condos.

Perhaps you could detail the source of your statement

You could just go to a bank and ask them.

[Delight]

53 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

You could just go to a bank and ask them.

 That comment tells me that you do not have a valid source for your statements.

  Suspect that your statement is a triumph of fantasy over reality.

I will retract my  last statement when you can prove your claim.

[KittenKong]

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/SpecialServices/ForeignCustomers/Pages/FundsTransfer.aspx

 

" You will also need to bring your passport along with a document that shows the source of money in your account when transferring USD 50,000 or the equivalent in another currency or more i.e. credit advice or a confirmation letter of your income from your employer to meet Bank of Thailand requirements. "

[alfieconn]

10 hours ago, Delight said:

 I have searched the net intensively and cannot see any reference to the use of a FET for any  purpose -other than it's association with condos.

Perhaps you could detail the source of your statement

Foreign Exchange Transaction Form

Bringing foreign currency into Thailand

The Foreign Exchange Transaction form (previously and for some still known as Thor Tor 3) is the official document prepared under BOT regulations to report foreign currency exchange transactions in Thailand and the document also proofs the remittance of foreign currency into Thailand and the exchange of foreign currency into Thai baht inside Thailand. The FET form is issued by the authorized financial institution (bank) inside Thailand that handled the exchange of foreign currency and contains at least the following information:

• the transferred amount in foreign currency,
• the transferred amount in Thai Baht,
• the name of money sender,
• the name of money receiver,
• the purpose of transferring the money

For any foreign exchange transactions (buying, selling, depositing, withdrawing foreign currencies) between financial institutions and their non-interbank customers the recipient bank inside Thailand must prepare a FET form for each remittance and exchange of foreign currency with an equivalent of USD 50,000 or more (amount increased in 2010) and report this to the Bank of Thailand.

[Delight]

6 hours ago, KittenKong said:

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/SpecialServices/ForeignCustomers/Pages/FundsTransfer.aspx

 

" You will also need to bring your passport along with a document that shows the source of money in your account when transferring USD 50,000 or the equivalent in another currency or more i.e. credit advice or a confirmation letter of your income from your employer to meet Bank of Thailand requirements. "

 The crucial statement on the BKK bank site is:

You will also need to bring your passport along with a document that shows the source of money in your account when transferring USD 50,000 or the equivalent in another currency or more i.e. credit advice or a confirmation letter of your income from your employer to meet Bank of Thailand requirements.

 

If you sell a  house  you do not have a 'document that shows the source of money in your account'

 

There is no official bill of sale.

 

2 sets of my friends in Thailand sold their houses and in both seperate cases their banks refused to transfer.

 For certain BKK bank website makes no reference to FET with respect to outgoing funds. Just incoming.

 

 That said it appears that you can repatriate funds at $50,000 per transaction. It would  also appear that there is no limit to the number of transactions.

So if you had 6 accounts each at  at different bank ,in theory at least, you can repatriate $300,000 in one very busy day.

 

 

When you sell a  condo (foreign owned) the land office will issue a copy of the original FET (or Tor Tor 3)

I have to assume that this photocopy will have an official LO  stamp on it. I confess that this is an assumption.

Obviously  if it was a just a  basic photo copy -then a foreigner could simply produce his own -several times.

 

I conclude that the FET is of no benefit -other than for transactions pertaining to the sale of foreign owned condos.

 

Therefore -just to satisfy my curiosity - my Q to the OP is- why are seeking to obtain a FET?

 

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, Delight said:

If you sell a  house  you do not have a 'document that shows the source of money in your account'

 

There is no official bill of sale.

Maybe not, but you should have the original FET or transfer advice, and this is enough to allow you to prove that the money was originally in foreign currency, and will also be enough to allow you to export it again.

 

Imagine bringing your life savings to Thailand, converting it into Baht, and then, 20 weeks or 20 years later, deciding that you want to go home again. As long as you can show that your cash originally came from abroad then you can export it without any trouble. It doesnt matter if you have had it in the bank in the meantime, or under the mattress, or whether you bought gold or a car or a house or a condo with it. It is still yours and as long as you can prove where it came from originally you can take it away with you.

 

Of course if you dont have the original transfer advice or FET then you are stuffed as it means you cannot prove that the money was once in foreign currency. Hence the need to obtain the forms at the time and to keep them safe, as I have been suggesting.

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, Delight said:

That said it appears that you can repatriate funds at $50,000 per transaction. It would  also appear that there is no limit to the number of transactions.

So if you had 6 accounts each at  at different bank ,in theory at least, you can repatriate $300,000 in one very busy day.

It is possible, but I believe the bank may start to ask questions if you try to do this more than once.

 

Either way, much simpler just to get the proper documentation which is free and yours by right, and avoids any hassle.

 

Plus, of course, the rules could change and the 50kUSD could become 5kUSD, or even zero. But if you have your documentation then you wont care as you would probably still be allowed to take out anything that you officially brought in.

[scubascuba3]

Putting in Thai husbands name feels as bad as putting in Thai wifes name. Just need to be very careful, and rushing may be a mistake

[Delight]

51 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

Maybe not, but you should have the original FET or transfer advice, and this is enough to allow you to prove that the money was originally in foreign currency, and will also be enough to allow you to export it again.

 

Imagine bringing your life savings to Thailand, converting it into Baht, and then, 20 weeks or 20 years later, deciding that you want to go home again. As long as you can show that your cash originally came from abroad then you can export it without any trouble. It doesnt matter if you have had it in the bank in the meantime, or under the mattress, or whether you bought gold or a car or a house or a condo with it. It is still yours and as long as you can prove where it came from originally you can take it away with you.

 

Of course if you dont have the original transfer advice or FET then you are stuffed as it means you cannot prove that the money was once in foreign currency. Hence the need to obtain the forms at the time and to keep them safe, as I have been suggesting.

 I still do not buy your argument

Consider a Farang who imports a lot of money and obtains a FET as you suggest.

He then purchases a house via company route

He does not sell the house

However he wishes to Launder money-for a 3rd party

With the system that you describe he will have no problems achieving this. He has his FET.

If the money is imported  and only part of it is spent and the balance remains in the original bank –then I think that that money can be repatriated. The bank has certainty of its origin

 

I suspect that you are correct in relation to multiple overseas transfer from a single bank account.

However if he has 3 bank accounts each with $100,000 dollars-then maybe 2 transfers from each bank will work.

Apologise to the OP for going off topic.

 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Delight said:

 I still do not buy your argument

Consider a Farang who imports a lot of money and obtains a FET as you suggest.

He then purchases a house via company route

He does not sell the house

However he wishes to Launder money-for a 3rd party

With the system that you describe he will have no problems achieving this. He has his FET.

I dont think there would be any problem with that.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Delight said:

I suspect that you are correct in relation to multiple overseas transfer from a single bank account.

However if he has 3 bank accounts each with $100,000 dollars-then maybe 2 transfers from each bank will work.

As far as I know they could correlate his passport ID with the money, so they would know if some attempt was being made to be deceitful.

 

But if you have an account here with USD in it (ie a non-resident currency account) then you can export the contents of it anyway, as normally you will have had to prove where it came from when you credited it to the account in the first place.

 

The problems only arise when you want to buy a lot of currency with THB, and then export the currency. And for that you need proof of having imported it in the first place.  As long as you have that proof, no problem.

 

As far as I know the rules are all basically in place to counter possible capital flight and/or massive tax evasion, and they arent really interested in small amounts. In fact these days, given the relative strength of the THB, they probably arent very interested at all. Still, given that the document is free and easy to get, why not get it and keep it safe?

[Delight]

9 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I dont think there would be any problem with that.

 You may not.

The government and the banks will  take the opposite view