UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Pleasevtell us all what part of “ All the people of Great Britain and Northern Ireland were given a DEMOCRATIC vote to stay in or leave the European Union? “.
Hardcore as you refer to them are NOT scared to let the people decide, the people DID decide and they said LEAVE .
Do you really think that it would be democratic to go against the majority?
 
OR maybe you believe that GB & NI should go the way of Southern Ireland wherein they were forced to vote 3 times because twice they voted NO to joining but on the third time the people were bought by EUROPE in that they were told that if they voted yes money would be free flowing and at preferential loan rates.
so who can blame the Irish, here was a way to rise above the general state of poverty that prevailed and start businesses, buy homes etc, etc, and they accepted the bribe laid before them by the bunch of sharks commonly known as the unaccountable 21, only to find that after the vote went to yes but not before considerable loans had already been taken out this same bunch recalled all those loans forcing most to lose everything and become bankrupt along with the country as a whole.
 
 

Yes, the model in Ireland would work well. Do the Irish people regret their eventual decision? The British people won't either, if they are given the chance to decide on their future. Let the people decide.

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[welovesundaysatspace]

4 hours ago, Janner1 said:

Southern Ireland (...) were forced to vote 3 times because twice they voted NO to joining

Yet another Brexit lie. 

 

 

[BwindiBoy]

12 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So the people can't change their mind? Why are hardcore Brexiteers so scared of letting the British people decide?

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Real Madrid should replay their cup final with Liverpool, then, else they're "so scared"? As ridiculous reasoning as your comment.

[BwindiBoy]

5 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Yes, the model in Ireland would work well. Do the Irish people regret their eventual decision? The British people won't either, if they are given the chance to decide on their future. Let the people decide.

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Er, they already did.  The End.

[brewsterbudgen]

 
Er, they already did.  The End.

The circumstances have changed. Now they can make an informed decision.

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[kwilco]

8 minutes ago, BwindiBoy said:

 

My definition?  What on Earth are you talking about?  Can you provide proof that I've provided a definition?!

QED -I'm offering you the opportunity to give your definition of critical thinking...it is becoming increasingly obvious that this won't happen.

[BwindiBoy]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

one million brits who have live outside the UK for more than 15 years were disenfranchised - some of these are directly affected by the result of the vote  

 

How much tax did those one million pay to the UK Treasury during those 15 years since they abandoned their home country?

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, BwindiBoy said:

 

Er, they already did.  The End.

It's a good job they didn't say that after Magna Carta

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, BwindiBoy said:

 

How much tax did those one million pay to the UK Treasury during those 15 years since they abandoned their home country?

That's got to go into the top 5 facile comments of this thread.

[BwindiBoy]

2 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

The circumstances have changed. Now they can make an informed decision.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Er, they already did.  The End!!

[tebee]

1 minute ago, BwindiBoy said:

 

How much tax did those one million pay to the UK Treasury during those 15 years since they abandoned their home country?

 

So we can disenfranchise the poor an unemployed next ? A welcome return to the 1700's

[BwindiBoy]

Just now, kwilco said:

That's got to go into the top 5 facile comments of this thread.

 

Leaving you with only 4 in the top 5?!

[BwindiBoy]

Just now, tebee said:

 

So we can disenfranchise the poor an unemployed next ? A welcome return to the 1700's

 

No, but you cannot expect these (alleged) one million to have their cake and eat it.

[BwindiBoy]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

QED -I'm offering you the opportunity to give your definition of critical thinking...it is becoming increasingly obvious that this won't happen.

 

 

No you didn't.  You asked me a nonsense question about whether your nonsense statement agreed with my definition.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

That's got to go into the top 5 facile comments of this thread.

Sorry you hold all top spots, and likely to remain that way with your pathetic insults.

[BwindiBoy]

15 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It's a good job they didn't say that after Magna Carta

 

 

Good job Remoaners weren't around back then, else they'd have been calling for it to be re-written a couple of years after it was originally written.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

On 9/30/2018 at 3:03 PM, oilinki said:

This is kind of a funny and clearly racist component of Brexit.

 

Yes, people can move freely on Single Market. That's one of the core principles of EU.

 

Now, let's see what happens in the future? Will UK really push visa requirement for EU? Which naturally will be applied to the other way as well. 

 

If there is not visa requirement, what stops EU citizens to travel to UK and start working in factory, construction, cleaning or corn field as tourist? 

 

Will there be quotas for EU people who wish to work in UK? This will increase both paperwork and officials working on those papers. UK will also need to take in more people from India and Pakistan as less EU workers are willing to enter to UK. We already know that UK people are 'too fine' to do the service sector work.

 

Then again, if you are going to import food from USA and let your own agriculture to die out, that's a fine solution for the agriculture workers problem. 

 

and...

 

'UK's exports to Germany account for 1.3% of Germany's GDP. Naturally there will be some exports even if UK decides to go all out. 

 

Likewise there will be relocation costs of EU business out of Britain afterwards.

 

But neither of these are worthy of destroying EU's principles, nor the unity of EU.'

 

 

I have to raise and correct these points as the erroneous nature of them is driving me potty. This kind of drivel underlines the totally fanatical and agenda-ridden yet feeble, flawed arguments put forward by yourself as well as other ardent EU acolytes. 

 

1) To suggest for one moment that the EU doesn't stand to lose A BIG CHUNK of its export income and lets not forget, it's LARGEST EXPORT MARKET IN THE WORLD, in the form of the UK, should we leave without a good reciprocal deal, is just laughable and an exercise in self delusion. Our exports to the EU (the most stagnant and in fact, fastest SHRINKING global market) have declined from 55% to 44% from 06' to 17'. Whereas imports to the UK from the EU have risen from 09' to 17' by 5-6%. FDI from UK to Germany and vise-versa has historically been high and the UK is the #1 market for many of it's goods and services, such as the automotive giants that make up a large and integral part of the German economy. If you or any other armchair pundit thinks for a second that these corporations operate under some kind of socialist EU-beholden framework and have a firmer allegiance to the EU than to their shareholders or their own bottom line, then once again you are exposing your total ignorance of business and economics. In the unlikely event that EU were to cut off their noses to spite their faces by generally discriminating against the UK with tariff barriers / general economic sanctions, how and with what would would they suddenly replace their largest export market in the world? There would be economic chaos and most likely extreme internal pressure for change and/or mutiny. Be serious here, the UK has a strong position in that we run a MASSIVE trade deficit with the EU. To pretend otherwise speaks of unabashed arrogance and total ignorance. 

 

The plebs at the top echelons of the EU might talk a big game and want to play hard ball, but they know full well the economic importance of the UK and after all said and done, money talks, simple as that.

 

And...

 

2)

This is kind of a funny and clearly racist component of Brexit.

 

Yes, people can move freely on Single Market. That's one of the core principles of EU.

 

The inevitable race card is played yet again, I see. Well, free movement of peoples (including well over 1 million middle eastern / N.African men entering freely and committing atrocities across your precious superstate) may be your and other equally myopic ideologues' idea of a good time, but it is the #1 catalyst for the disintegration of the EU and is of course the biggest reason, along with unemployment, economic recession and artificial debt (all engineered and / or exacerbated by the good ol' EU) for the growing civil unrest across the continent. If you want to keep Schengen and all its evident flaws & maladies then be our guests, but you shouldn't expect a happy ending or for us (or anyone else) to be a willing participant, especially when it has proven to be such a woeful idea in the long run.

 

3)

If there is not visa requirement, what stops EU citizens to travel to UK and start working in factory, construction, cleaning or corn field as tourist?

 

Say what? Who would be able to become gainfully employed on a tourist visa in the UK? It isn't Thailand mate! Employment law being breached, and so the threat of massive fines/liquidation of employers' company would be the main deterrent for anyone thinking of illegally employing someone, just as it is today. I know it happens, but not in huge numbers.

 

4) UK will also need to take in more people from India and Pakistan as less EU workers are willing to enter to UK. We already know that UK people are 'too fine' to do the service sector work.

 

We have a vast commonwealth that outnumbers the EU by many hundreds of millions, we need to re-engage with them on our own terms, and besides just because we leave the EU it doesn't mean our geography changes. I mean honestly! The pidley EU has been around for a half century, and visa free travel for far less. What do you think happened before pal!? People who want to study and work in the UK will keep coming from all around the world. It's still the 5th or 6th largest Economy depending on which stats you view (with the potential to grow outside the EU lets not forget) with the best schools in Europe if not the world and some of the oldest, most esteemed institutions in many fields. If you really think that there won't still be queues of people trying to visit and work within the UK's borders - including 1000s of EU citizens, again, you're simply deluded and would be exposing your distaste for the UK, your issue, not mine or anyone elses.

 

British people certainly aren't 'too fine' to do more menial or unskilled jobs, this is somewhat of a misconception. With the surplus of labour from around the world, particularly poorer EU countries, driving such job's wages down, the cost-benefit ratio between doing such jobs and claiming benefits has not been 'enticing' lets say. This is something that has to change, both in terms of the financial rewards of lower/unskilled jobs and also in the attitudes of our own people, especially the youth. Our benefits system needs a massive rethink, or perhaps scrapping altogether. Again though, with imposed restrictions to immigration and thus cheap labour, these jobs would become more financially attractive. 

 

To finish, you and others, talk about the EU being 'a mother figure' to its 'naughty children' and that admonishing them when they 'act up' , such as us upstart Brits have done, is a natural and justifiable reaction. Well, that just about encapsulates everything I & any normal person find repulsive about the whole flawed superstate. If you'd like a return to USSR style autocracy then that's your prerogative. It certainly ain't a wise choice or one that myself or the majority of my countrymen are happy with. HENCE Brexit. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[aright]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

QED -I'm offering you the opportunity to give your definition of critical thinking...it is becoming increasingly obvious that this won't happen.

One of my requirements when I look for intercommunication with a person who is making a pitch to me is a form of intelligent critical thinking based on more than conjecture, guesstimate and insults. You fail miserably in this regard.

[aright]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

QED -I'm offering you the opportunity to give your definition of critical thinking...it is becoming increasingly obvious that this won't happen.

One of my requirements when I look for intercommunication with a person who is making a pitch to me is a form of intelligent critical thinking based on more than conjecture, guesstimate and insults. You fail miserably in this regard.

[melvinmelvin]

 

good guesstimates and ability to perform critical thinking often goes hand in hand

 

[aright]

21 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

good guesstimates and ability to perform critical thinking often goes hand in hand

 

Yes as long as you accept your guess is far less accurate than my certainty, without rancour ???? 

[Chopperboy]

Reuters owned by the Rothschild's since 1890..

No hit of bias there then on behalf of their Shadow Government masters.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Yet another Brexit lie. 

 

 

 

I think it was twice.

[kwilco]

It's quite unbelievable that a free democratic country can accept this kind of speech from a Prime Minister as in any way acceptable....

 

 

[kwilco]

40 minutes ago, Chopperboy said:

Reuters owned by the Rothschild's since 1890..

No hit of bias there then on behalf of their Shadow Government masters.

You might want to uncritical thinking and look at the message rather than the messanger.

 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, aright said:

One of my requirements when I look for intercommunication with a person who is making a pitch to me is a form of intelligent critical thinking based on more than conjecture, guesstimate and insults. You fail miserably in this regard.

The more you post, the more I'm convinced you don't actually know what critical thinking is...

Here is a brief introduction.It's called "Here be Dragons....an introduction to critical thinking"... most Brexiteers watch it and become intensely embarrassed.

 

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D752V173e31o&ved=2ahUKEwiJ2e2J2endAhVFWX0KHaAGB28QtwIwAHoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3vcnTYLViidJRhpEK3m3Ke

 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by kwilco

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It's quite unbelievable that a free democratic country can accept this kind of speech from a Prime Minister as in any way acceptable....

 

 

 

Hahaha! Someone ought to tell this Mr.Andreou tit to look into what 'Freedom of Movement' actually means and just how it has affected the poorest in our societies, damaged our respective national economies and fostered social tensions right across the EEA/EU.

 

YET ANOTHER weak attempt at scaremongering from the Remoaner crowd, I have to wonder if he and others of his ilk are really this thick or just being willfully disingenuous. Does he really imagine that he or any other UK citizen that intends to travel to the continent post 19/3/19 will be in any way impeded from doing so!? If he had booked a weekend getaway in lets say, Paris, on the 18th March next year would it suddenly be voided on the 19th? ????

 

The only perceivable negative he could be misconstruing as a 'catastrophic loss' is instead of being able to rock up anywhere in the EU and simply apply for a job he will have to apply for a work permit and hope his skills/experience are adequate. There won't be any other affect to his 'rights' just as there won't be any other affect to any EU citizens' rights to do the same thing in the UK.

 

After all, anywhere else in the world he would have to go through the same process, including LOS. This kind of sensationalist <deleted> is at the heart of the counter Brexit argument.

 

Hollow falsehoods as usual. 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

Hahaha! Someone ought to tell this Mr.Andreou tit to look into what 'Freedom of Movement' actually means and just how it has affected the poorest in our societies, damaged our respective national economies and fostered social tensions right across the EEA/EU.

 

YET ANOTHER weak attempt at scaremongering from the Remoaner crowd, I have to wonder if he and others of his ilk are really this thick or just being willfully disingenuous. Does he really imagine that he or any other UK citizen that intends to travel to the continent post 19/3/19 will be in any way impeded from doing so!? If he had booked a weekend getaway in lets say, Paris, on the 18th March next year would it suddenly be voided on the 19th? ????

 

The only perceivable negative he could be misconstruing as a 'catastrophic loss' is instead of being able to rock up anywhere in the EU and simply apply for a job he will have to apply for a work permit and hope his skills/experience are adequate. There won't be any other affect to his 'rights' just as there won't be any other affect to any EU citizens' rights to do the same thing in the UK.

 

After all, anywhere else in the world he would have to go through the same process, including LOS. This kind of sensationalist <deleted> is at the heart of the counter Brexit argument.

 

Hollow falsehoods as usual. 

 

 

 

More evidence of desperation from some of the Remoaner crowd who cannot accept their losing position.

 

Sensationalism is all they have left... sadly, they seem to forget that it also failed to work in June 2016.

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, tebee said:

 

So we can disenfranchise the poor an unemployed next ? A welcome return to the 1700's

If/when I have lived away from the UK for 15 years, I won't complain if I can't vote. After all, why should I vote on topics affecting a country I no longer live in? 

Why should I have the same voting rights as those who are still living there and will be directly affected by the result?

 

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

 

 

 

The only perceivable negative he could be misconstruing as a 'catastrophic loss' is instead of being able to rock up anywhere in the EU and simply apply for a job he will have to apply for a work permit and hope his skills/experience are adequate. 

 

After all, anywhere else in the world he would have to go through the same process, including LOS. 

 

 

 

People with skills anywhere in Europe will always be able to find work in Europe. So-called unskilled jobs will also remain open to those East Europeans currently in employment .... I doubt there will be any future serious constraints if demand for Labour continues.

 

The LOS model on Immigration is a good place to start...... you can stay if you can evidence the ability to support yourself but there is no immediate right to any benefits. After a period of paying into the system benefits/NHS could start to become available.