UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[mogandave]

Simply not true. Many were women

Whose boyfriends were being drafted.

The protests absolutely stopped after the draft, and the killing in SEA accelerated.

Once they quit being drafted, they quit caring about the millions of women and children being killed and went to work on legalizing grass and ruining public education.

[vinny41]

35 minutes ago, tebee said:

The Swiss voted democratically in a referendum to end FOM

 

The EU said fine, but pointed out that would also mean ending other agreements with considerable cost to the Swiss economy.

 

The Swiss government ignored the referendum result, prefering to keep the economy intact.

May as well have a Miltary Junta then, No EU membership, No £39 billion payments No House of Lords, No House of Commons

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

May as well have a Miltary Junta then, No EU membership, No £39 billion payments No House of Lords, No House of Commons

I'm flabbergasted at comments like this

 

The Swiss have an entirely different system to us

 

But, you don't really understand our system, really. Do you?

 

As for the 39B, you would prefer walking away from our obligations? I think that positions you quite nicely as an average Brexiter.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I could take partial responsibility for the vote but certainly not for the execution of Brexit, which seems to have been intentionally fouled up by a bunch of remainers. 

I’ve been keeping track of the debate on this forum about Brexit since the vote took place.

 

in the early days the Remain camp stated that the UK would be worse off and would not secure a good trading relationship with the EU. The leavers stated that the UK held all the cards, because the EU needed us more than we needed them, so we would get access to their markets and be able to kill off freedom of movement and engage in free trade. A Cabinet filled with Brexiteers  has failed to deliver on that ... Davis and Raab failed ... and blamed others. Now the Brexiteers on here kid themselves that the reason for this failure is that Theresa May never believed in Brexit? Not that no one would have been able to deliver on the Brexit promises? The only Brexit they could offer was a hard walk away without any arrangements Brexit. Despite what they told the public during the election.

 

The promises have turned out to be a false prospectus and now they are all scrambling to blame others for their plight. The danger is that a no deal Brexit will not fly, and they will have to go back to the people, and that would end Brexit. Gove is correct on this occasion, 100% did not vote for Brexit, so they should not expect to get everything they wanted. This is indeed a mess, but it’s a mess of their own making. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by AlexRich

[7by7]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I could take partial responsibility for the vote but certainly not for the execution of Brexit, which seems to have been intentionally fouled up by a bunch of remainers. 

 In the 2016 Conservative leadership election two candidates, May and Crabb, were Remainers, the other four were prominent Leavers; Johnson, Leadsom. Gove and Fox.

 

Gove and Fox were eliminated in the first round, Leadsom withdrew after the first round and Johnson withdrew before the voting even started.

 

Why did these prominent Leavers withdraw? 

 

Simple, they knew, especially Boris, that there could never be a deal which would please everyone; so chose to leave it to May to do the best she could while they, and others such as Rees-Mogg, carp from the sidelines.

 

If Boris etc. really believed they could have come up with a better deal, then  Leadsom, Gove and Fox would have withdrawn from the race before the first vote leaving it a straight choice between May and Johnson.

 

Would Johnson have won? Who knows; but he knew Brexit was going to be a mess, knew that his Leave campaign was based on the Big Lie, knew that we would never get the deal he promised us before the referendum and didn't want to go down in history as the man who f'd up Brexit. He'd rather let May have that dubious honour and then come riding to the rescue afterwards.

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Whose boyfriends were being drafted.

The protests absolutely stopped after the draft, and the killing in SEA accelerated.

Once they quit being drafted, they quit caring about the millions of women and children being killed and went to work on legalizing grass and ruining public education.

 

There were no lesbians or single women? 

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'm flabbergasted at comments like this

 

The Swiss have an entirely different system to us

 

But, you don't really understand our system, really. Do you?

 

As for the 39B, you would prefer walking away from our obligations? I think that positions you quite nicely as an average Brexiter.

It has been stated many times that the Uk obligations are approx 21B if the UK leaves without a deal

And I note that there are thousand of Brits still  happy living in Thailand with a Miltary Junta in place since 2014

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by vinny41

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I’ve been keeping track of the debate on this forum about Brexit since the vote took place.

 

in the early days the Remain camp stated that the UK would be worse off and would not secure a good trading relationship with the EU. The leavers started that the UK held all the cards, because the EU needed us more than we needed them, so we would get access to their markets and be able to kill off freedom of movement and engage in free trade. A Cabinet filled with Brexiteers  has failed to deliver on that ... Davis and Raab failed ... and blamed others. Now the Brexiteers on here kid themselves that the reason for this failure is that Theresa May never believed in Brexit? Not that no one would have been able to deliver on the Brexit promises? The only Brexit they could offer was a hard walk away without any arrangements Brexit. Despite what the told the public during the election.

 

The promises have turned out to be a false prospectus and now they are all scrambling to blame others for their plight. The danger is that a no deal Brexit will not fly, and they will have to go back to the people, and that would end Brexit. Gove is correct on this occasion, 100% did not vote for Brexit, so they should not expect to get everything they wanted. This is indeed a mess, but it’s a mess of their making. 

If you had really been "keeping track" you would see that my comment concerned who has had control of the exit process and who has really directed the negotiations, not who said what on telly. The Cabinet has been majority remainer, not brexiteer. Davis was not given control, neither was Raab - Secretaries of State for Exiting The European Union in name only - that much is obvious now.  

[nauseus]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 In the 2016 Conservative leadership election two candidates, May and Crabb, were Remainers, the other four were prominent Leavers; Johnson, Leadsom. Gove and Fox.

 

Gove and Fox were eliminated in the first round, Leadsom withdrew after the first round and Johnson withdrew before the voting even started.

 

Why did these prominent Leavers withdraw? 

 

Simple, they knew, especially Boris, that there could never be a deal which would please everyone; so chose to leave it to May to do the best she could while they, and others such as Rees-Mogg, carp from the sidelines.

 

If Boris etc. really believed they could have come up with a better deal, then  Leadsom, Gove and Fox would have withdrawn from the race before the first vote leaving it a straight choice between May and Johnson.

 

Would Johnson have won? Who knows; but he knew Brexit was going to be a mess, knew that his Leave campaign was based on the Big Lie, knew that we would never get the deal he promised us before the referendum and didn't want to go down in history as the man who f'd up Brexit. He'd rather let May have that dubious honour and then come riding to the rescue afterwards.

 

 

 

Quite a story. Did Boris tell you all this?

[mogandave]

There were no lesbians or single women? 

There were certainly a lot fewer.

In any event, the protest stopped when the draft stopped, yet the killing increased.

Why is that?

No shortage of wars since, yet not large scale protests.

Why is that?

Spark up another one...

[7by7]

Just now, nauseus said:

Quite a story. Did Boris tell you all this?

No, researching the facts did.

 

 

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If you had really been "keeping track" you would see that my comment concerned who has had control of the exit process and who has really directed the negotiations, not who said what on telly. The Cabinet has been majority remainer, not brexiteer. Davis was not given control, neither was Raab - Secretaries of State for Exiting The European Union in name only - that much is obvious now.  

As I said, excuses. Davis was in the job for two years, are you saying he just sat there doing nothing? Actually, it appears that he did. If you were being undermined and excluded would you not just resign immediately? 

[mogandave]

As I said, excuses. Davis was in the job for two years, are you saying he just sat there doing nothing? Actually, it appears that he did. If you were being undermined and excluded would you not just resign immediately? 

If I had a great job pulling down long money in a cushy environment I would not resign if my ideas were not acted on.

[SheungWan]

19 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Maybe similar odds as most of the Grumpy Old Git Brexiteers being around in 5 years

 

10 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Says you..coming from the shooting, stabbing, acid throwing and gbh cesspit of the world

 

Oh no! Hopefully this isn't a resentful grumpy provincial Brexiteer thrashing about!

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

As I said, excuses. Davis was in the job for two years, are you saying he just sat there doing nothing? Actually, it appears that he did. If you were being undermined and excluded would you not just resign immediately? 

 

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

If I had a great job pulling down long money in a cushy environment I would not resign if my ideas were not acted on.

 

So there we have it.

[nontabury]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

As I said, excuses. Davis was in the job for two years, are you saying he just sat there doing nothing? Actually, it appears that he did. If you were being undermined and excluded would you not just resign immediately? 

Perhaps Davis was taken in by the blatant lies of T.May and her fellow remainer and side kick Olly Robbins.

Domanic Rabb then thought, he was taking over the Secretary of State, for Brexit. But again, he soon came to the conclusion that he was being used.

 And immediately resigned.

What you and your fellow remoaners fail to understand, is that, should the people’s vote in 2016 be overturned, Brexit will not go away. There will always be a large section of the public, who will become increasingly anti E.u.  

In 1975 we voted to join a trading union,never a political union.

Do you honestly think for one moment that if the true intentions of our “Betters” has been known,that we would have voted for this elitist creation. 

 

 

[7by7]

22 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Perhaps Davis was taken in by the blatant lies of T.May and her fellow remainer and side kick Olly Robbins.

What lies would they be, then?

 

That we could leave the EU yet still retain all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities? Hang on, that was Boris and the Leave campaign who peddled that one.

 

That the EU would kowtow and give us access to the free market on our terms? Nope, Leave again.

 

Leaving the EU would save us £350 million per week? Sorry, Leave again.

 

Etc., etc........

 

The list of lies told by Leave is lengthy indeed.

[adammike]

24 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Perhaps Davis was taken in by the blatant lies of T.May and her fellow remainer and side kick Olly Robbins.

Domanic Rabb then thought, he was taking over the Secretary of State, for Brexit. But again, he soon came to the conclusion that he was being used.

 And immediately resigned.

What you and your fellow remoaners fail to understand, is that, should the people’s vote in 2016 be overturned, Brexit will not go away. There will always be a large section of the public, who will become increasingly anti E.u.  

In 1975 we voted to join a trading union,never a political union.

Do you honestly think for one moment that if the true intentions of our “Betters” has been known,that we would have voted for this elitist creation. 

 

 

It's the right wing that's the threat to democracy aided and abetted by brexiteers,just because somebody says it doesn't make it fact ,It's you who needs to understand just because you won one vote doesn't mean we will stop campaigning to stay in or rejoin the EU that's democracy for you.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What lies would they be, then?

 

That we could leave the EU yet still retain all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities? Hang on, that was Boris and the Leave campaign who peddled that one.

 

That the EU would kowtow and give us access to the free market on our terms? Nope, Leave again.

 

Leaving the EU would save us £350 million per week? Sorry, Leave again.

 

Etc., etc........

 

The list of lies told by Leave is lengthy indeed.

At least 2". ????

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Leavers should just think themselves lucky we're not billing them for the cost and chaos they have caused. And for all the ifs and butters .....

 

 “if ifs and ands were pots and pans, there'd be no work for tinkers' hands”.

What a relief.

[7by7]

May has said that there will be no second referendum, so unless she is toppled and we have a new Prime Minister there wont be.

 

But maybe there should be now that the facts of Brexit have become more clear.

 

A prime example of Brexiteer ignorance came on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 the other day. A caller said he didn't care about the economic results of Brexit, he voted leave simply to give us back control of our borders and stop immigration.

 

When Vine pointed out to him that EU net migration to the UK was falling before the referendum and has continued to fall since and that most immigrants to the UK come from, and have always come from, outside the EU, he was lost for words! 

 

 

 

 

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

11 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

40 minutes ago, nontabury said:

<snip>Perhaps Davis was taken in by the blatant lies of T.May and her fellow remainer and side kick Olly Robbins.

<snip>

What lies would they be, then?

At least 2". ????

What does 2" mean? Shorthand for 2 inches?

 

If you mean at least two lies, name them!

[mogandave]

May has said that there will be no second referendum, so unless she is toppled and we have a new Prime Minister there wont be.
 
But maybe there should be now that the facts of Brexit have become more clear.
 
A prime example of Brexiteer ignorance came on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 the other day. A caller said he didn't care about the economic results of Brexit, he voted leave simply to give us back control of our borders and stop immigration.
 
When Vine pointed out to him that EU net migration to the UK was falling before the referendum and has continued to fall since and that most immigrants to the UK come from, and have always come from, outside the EU, he was lost for words! 
 
 
 
 

So you that’s where you get your facts, the radio?

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

29 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

May has said that there will be no second referendum, so unless she is toppled and we have a new Prime Minister there wont be.

 

But maybe there should be now that the facts of Brexit have become more clear.

 

A prime example of Brexiteer ignorance came on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 the other day. A caller said he didn't care about the economic results of Brexit, he voted leave simply to give us back control of our borders and stop immigration.

 

When Vine pointed out to him that EU net migration to the UK was falling before the referendum and has continued to fall since and that most immigrants to the UK come from, and have always come from, outside the EU, he was lost for words! 

 

 

 

 

So you that’s where you get your facts, the radio?

 

 Not my 'fact' but the opinion of someone who fell for Leave's lies; a blatantly wrong opinion because:

1. the EU has no control over a member state's borders or immigration law when it comes to non EU/EEA or Swiss nationals (unless Surinder Singh applies);
2. net migration to the UK from outside the EU, EEA and Switzerland is higher than from within.

Those are facts, and easily checkable if you care to do so.

 

 

[nontabury]

57 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What lies would they be, then?

 

That we could leave the EU yet still retain all the benefits of membership without any of the responsibilities? Hang on, that was Boris and the Leave campaign who peddled that one.

 

That the EU would kowtow and give us access to the free market on our terms? Nope, Leave again.

 

Leaving the EU would save us £350 million per week? Sorry, Leave again.

 

Etc., etc........

 

The list of lies told by Leave is lengthy indeed.

Such as she would implement the Democratic vote of the people

This of course she has completely failed to do. A fact that even many of those who voted to remain acknowledge.

 As for lies, did not N.C and the Bureaucrats in Brussels categorically state that there was no intention of creating an E.u army. 

And very importantly, what you should be asking yourself. If we were to remain in this so called union. What would it look like in say, 10 years time.That is off course, if the E.u. Survives that long.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by nontabury

[bomber]

49 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

May has said that there will be no second referendum, so unless she is toppled and we have a new Prime Minister there wont be.

 

But maybe there should be now that the facts of Brexit have become more clear.

 

A prime example of Brexiteer ignorance came on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 the other day. A caller said he didn't care about the economic results of Brexit, he voted leave simply to give us back control of our borders and stop immigration.

 

When Vine pointed out to him that EU net migration to the UK was falling before the referendum and has continued to fall since and that most immigrants to the UK come from, and have always come from, outside the EU, he was lost for words! 

 

 

 

 

good point,in my area i see barely any poles,slovak's etc,but go inside a hospital and there are lots of phillipino's,asians,africans even south american's and this is 300 miles from London,brexit fans should realise the EU workers are only doing the <deleted> the idle Brits wont do as benefits are king to so many.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

As I said, excuses. Davis was in the job for two years, are you saying he just sat there doing nothing? Actually, it appears that he did. If you were being undermined and excluded would you not just resign immediately? 

No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that what he was doing was progressively undermined by May, mainly via Oliver Robbins. Davis's frustration was evident after the stupid 2017 GE, after that I can only guess that he stayed in office as long as he did in the hope that he would be able to regain influence with the Brexit talks, which might have been possible if May might was kicked out. A pity she wasn't.   

Edited December 1, 2018 by nauseus

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, adammike said:

It's the right wing that's the threat to democracy aided and abetted by brexiteers,just because somebody says it doesn't make it fact ,It's you who needs to understand just because you won one vote doesn't mean we will stop campaigning to stay in or rejoin the EU that's democracy for you.

The Will Of The People must be obeyed, regardless of what people want.

We all have to make sacrifices, from time to time, and you and I, and our children, will need to get used to those times being longer, and more frequent. It IS The Will Of The People

[Jim1000]

Why does Rees Mogg always look like he's slightly .unhinged ?

[adammike]

2 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

The Will Of The People must be obeyed, regardless of what people want.

We all have to make sacrifices, from time to time, and you and I, and our children, will need to get used to those times being longer, and more frequent. It IS The Will Of The People

28% of the people voted Brexit, 37% of the electorate voted for brexit,you mean the will of some of the people must be obeyed,dream on.