UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

scotland nation? hardly

scots maybe

 

Hope this helps.

 

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the official title of the state. Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England are often called the HomeNations. All of them can be described as countries, or nations, as can the UK in its entirety."

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Not sure what your point is.

The ECJ will only rule if the UK can unilaterally reverse the Brexit decision. Should they decide we can’t then ignoring their ruling would be a tad difficult and, should they rule we can, the decision is still down to us so not exactly something that we can ‘ignore’ unless you are arguing they should tell us we cannot leave.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

My point is if they rule that the UK can unilaterally withdraw Article 50 the other EU countries might not agree I suspect the EU will want their pound of flesh in the form of Signing up to the Euro within 2 years, we know the rebate is already history in the next EU budget

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

An excellent contribution soleddy, thanks.

 

Some of Abbott's suggestions have already been made by British politicians, but he has joined the dots nicely on some of them. Zero tariffs on the type of goods that NI imports from Ireland , therefore no hard border! Neat.

 

The majority share of Ireland-NI trade is agriculture, so ANZ would benefit from zero tariffs too. People say this could damage British farming, but we could easily redirect some of the massive subsidies we currently pay to French farmers.

 

His idea of walking away is something that gets likelier by the week, as an acceptable deal becomes more and more unlikely. 

 

A compromise deal serves no one in my opinion.  

 

We now have 2 alternatives in my view:

 

1. Walk away.

2. Quit Brexit.

 

We should let those 2 options play out. 

 

 

 

 

[My Thai Life]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

A compromise deal serves no one in my opinion.  

 

We now have 2 alternatives in my view:

 

1. Walk away.

2. Quit Brexit.

 

We should let those 2 options play out. 

Always a pleasure to hear from you MB ????

 

Agreed on the first part. You can't be in the CU/SM and out of the CU/SM at the same time.

 

About quitting Brexit. While the ECJ may rule that it's technically possible for the UK to cancel A50, it doesn't seem to be politically feasible given JC's and TM's opposition to the idea; add to this the penalties for doing so, and the timeline, and I'd say it's got zero chance of happening.

 

I don't think May has got the character to walk away, and she is so committed to her own path, even though no-one else is, I can't see walking away as a reality, unless a Leaver takes over the Tory party very soon. Very unlikely imho, but a possibility I guess.

 

My feeling at the moment is that we're heading for no deal accompanied by some specific emergency agreements in key areas - maybe air transport and data for example.

 

I've benefitted more from globalisation than most people here, and I'd really like the EU to reflect on the strength of feeling across the EU about the importance of the nation state, and reform accordingly. This is my ideal solution, just a dream sadly.

 

 

 

[nontabury]

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

A compromise deal serves no one in my opinion.  

 

We now have 2 alternatives in my view:

 

1. Walk away.

2. Quit Brexit.

 

We should let those 2 options play out. 

 

 

 

 

Take away your second option, and then you are left with what the British people voted for.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Hope this helps.

 

"The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the official title of the state. Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England are often called the HomeNations. All of them can be described as countries, or nations, as can the UK in its entirety."

ta, whatever

 

actually, oxford-cambridge-webster differ a bit on this, didn't bother with larousse

I'm not fussy - happy with help

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-historians-will-not-believe-sheer-ignorance-of-brexit-supporters-1.3695347?mode=amp#.W-qBdSX5fPI.twitter

 

just a couple of days to go now tebee - hold on

[whatsupdoc]

36 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Always a pleasure to hear from you MB ????

 

Agreed on the first part. You can't be in the CU/SM and out of the CU/SM at the same time.

 

About quitting Brexit. While the ECJ may rule that it's technically possible for the UK to cancel A50, it doesn't seem to be politically feasible given JC's and TM's opposition to the idea; add to this the penalties for doing so, and the timeline, and I'd say it's got zero chance of happening.

 

I don't think May has got the character to walk away, and she is so committed to her own path, even though no-one else is, I can't see walking away as a reality, unless a Leaver takes over the Tory party very soon. Very unlikely imho, but a possibility I guess.

 

My feeling at the moment is that we're heading for no deal accompanied by some specific emergency agreements in key areas - maybe air transport and data for example.

 

I've benefitted more from globalisation than most people here, and I'd really like the EU to reflect on the strength of feeling across the EU about the importance of the nation state, and reform accordingly. This is my ideal solution, just a dream sadly.

 

 

 

Quitting Brexit seems very possible to me, but probably only if a new referendum is held.

Walking away would be catastrophic, so hardly a possibility.

 

However, I seriously hope that your feeling about a no deal accompanied by emergency agreements will be correct.

As an EU citizen I want the UK to leave because there is no point in having such a divided country in the Union. Hopefully being out for a while gives the UK time to reflect on what they have done and maybe finally realize the benefits of membership of the EU.

 

I do not get your last paragraph. In my opinion the EU is about the cooperation of sovereign nations to benefit all of its members. What has the importance of the nation state has got to do with it? Is it even really affected in any practical sense (when you leave emotions out of it)? All the members are still (and will always be) sovereign nations.

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Quitting Brexit seems very possible to me, but probably only if a new referendum is held.

Walking away would be catastrophic, so hardly a possibility.

 

However, I seriously hope that your feeling about a no deal accompanied by emergency agreements will be correct.

As an EU citizen I want the UK to leave because there is no point in having such a divided country in the Union. Hopefully being out for a while gives the UK time to reflect on what they have done and maybe finally realize the benefits of membership of the EU.

 

I do not get your last paragraph. In my opinion the EU is about the cooperation of sovereign nations to benefit all of its members. What has the importance of the nation state has got to do with it? Is it even really affected in any practical sense (when you leave emotions out of it)? All the members are still (and will always be) sovereign nations.

 

your last para, by and large OK but re the last sentence;

there are some "unclean" realities related to that

 

cyprus and the cypriotic nation being one

should Turkey become a member, your statement would be challenged (Kurds)

some hardcore nationalists would argue that your language does not cover Belgium

same same Spain

there are more examples

- sovereign nation is sought after but not achievable for many (in their view)

 

 

[Guest]

What is happening with brexit? "I haven't got the foggiest idea".

 

This was hilarious and also so truthful. 

 

 

[adammike]

16 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

your last para, by and large OK but re the last sentence;

there are some "unclean" realities related to that

 

cyprus and the cypriotic nation being one

should Turkey become a member, your statement would be challenged (Kurds)

some hardcore nationalists would argue that your language does not cover Belgium

same same Spain

there are more examples

- sovereign nation is sought after but not achievable for many (in their view)

 

 

Turkey will never be a member of the EU.Its project fear no1  of the brexiteers.

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, adammike said:

Turkey will never be a member of the EU.Its project fear no1  of the brexiteers.

never is a bib big word - remains to be seen

 

unlikely more suitable than never

 

[mogandave]

Turkey will never be a member of the EU.Its project fear no1  of the brexiteers.

Why should they be disallowed?

[kwilco]

The connections and similarities between Brexit and Fascism are increasingly alarming

 

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/populist-fascism-coming-uk-who-fighting-against-it

 

 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Always a pleasure to hear from you MB ????

 

Agreed on the first part. You can't be in the CU/SM and out of the CU/SM at the same time.

 

About quitting Brexit. While the ECJ may rule that it's technically possible for the UK to cancel A50, it doesn't seem to be politically feasible given JC's and TM's opposition to the idea; add to this the penalties for doing so, and the timeline, and I'd say it's got zero chance of happening.

 

I don't think May has got the character to walk away, and she is so committed to her own path, even though no-one else is, I can't see walking away as a reality, unless a Leaver takes over the Tory party very soon. Very unlikely imho, but a possibility I guess.

 

My feeling at the moment is that we're heading for no deal accompanied by some specific emergency agreements in key areas - maybe air transport and data for example.

 

I've benefitted more from globalisation than most people here, and I'd really like the EU to reflect on the strength of feeling across the EU about the importance of the nation state, and reform accordingly. This is my ideal solution, just a dream sadly.

 

 

 

 

I think May will be bowing out quite soon.  Tories will soldier on of course, but the Government has lost the nation's respect imo, although the situation is not irretrievable.

 

May's most recent speech reminded me of those she made during the GE campaign, managing to wipe out one of the biggest poll leads in history.

 

No, quitting is unlikely, not as far fetched as it was, however.  I only listed it because it is an option.

 

 

[mogandave]

The connections and similarities between Brexit and Fascism are increasingly alarming
 
 
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/08/populist-fascism-coming-uk-who-fighting-against-it
 
 

And what might those similarities be?

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

 

And what might those similarities be?

 

 

read the article

[mommysboy]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

 

And what might those similarities be?

 

 

I don't think there are any really.

 

It's one of those paradoxes, that though the Conservatives are mostly in power, we could best be described as a social democrat state. The sort of antics in USA would not be tolerated, which is basically rather a right wing country anyway imo.

[melvinmelvin]

50 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Why should they be disallowed?

 

 

the list is long

 

respect for human rights - so so

trustworthy and independent judiciary - so so

law and equality - so so

freedom of  speech - so so

consistency and transparency in government operations - less than so so

 

the above just a taste of the menu

 

over the years I have worked with a bunch of very highly educated Turks, all PhDs and bright on top of that,

they very strongly support all efforts in Turkey to approach  EU

Why? the want to modernize Turkey to improve the list above

 

but they are deadly against any EU membership 

[mogandave]

read the article

That’s what I thought, there are none

[kwilco]

Brexit has made Britain the "Irish joke" of the world.

 

"It's all right, now we're going the trade with the rest of the world...like we already do in the EU........anyway, everything's cheaper in a recession"

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-historians-will-not-believe-sheer-ignorance-of-brexit-supporters-1.3695347?fbclid=IwAR3bDSVuXsHQAJF7tFcLOT7rzYD_PckjEfuC6qFUbVJMLYlJ3maEFipZuk4

 

[kwilco]

13 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

That’s what I thought, there are none

 

   Populist referendum, blaming facial stereotypes for the countries problems arguing with a pan European treaty and the general populous like yourself in denial........ be careful what you say.

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Brexit has made Britain the "Irish joke" of the world.

 

"It's all right, now we're going the trade with the rest of the world...like we already do in the EU........anyway, everything's cheaper in a recession"

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-historians-will-not-believe-sheer-ignorance-of-brexit-supporters-1.3695347?fbclid=IwAR3bDSVuXsHQAJF7tFcLOT7rzYD_PckjEfuC6qFUbVJMLYlJ3maEFipZuk4

 

 

 

YAWN!, after YAWN! after YAWN!

 

 

This poster adds nothing to the discussions except self-pitying whinging...

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, kwilco said:

   Populist referendum, blaming facial stereotypes for the countries problems arguing with a pan European treaty and the general populous like yourself in denial........ be careful what you say.

Don't tell him Pike.????????????

[Patriot1066]

14 minutes ago, kwilco said:

   Populist referendum, blaming facial stereotypes for the countries problems arguing with a pan European treaty and the general populous like yourself in denial........ be careful what you say.

Facial stereotypes hilarious where did that come from.

 

anything that I’d not left far left or accepted by the elite ruling millionaire class is considered populous don’t let you men democratic if it’s popular. The EU is neither democratic or popular!

[Patriot1066]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't tell him Pike.????????????

Hehe only our age group will understand that!

[melvinmelvin]

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't tell him Pike.????????????

 

 

[Patriot1066]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

 

Hilarious ! Not Mc Alpine that was a bit slaws!

 

So funny even now. Interedting what we  remember from years ago as was only a few seconds long, simple but clever humour.

[mommysboy]

50 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

That’s what I thought, there are none

 

You are right.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

 

I was trying to keep pictures of the Kriegsmarine away from kwilcos eyes, he will be accusing the Homeguard of collaboration now. ????????????