A New Vietnam-Thailand Navy Pact?

A new hydrographic agreement factored into recent discussions by both sides.

By Prashanth Parameswaran

 

This week, the chief of the Thai navy’s hydrographic department paid a visit to Vietnam in yet another official exchange between the two Southeast Asian states. The interaction highlighted the ongoing activity between the navies of the two Southeast Asian states within the wider strategic partnership that both sides have forged over the years.

 

As I have noted before in these pages, the maritime domain has long factored into wider cooperation between Vietnam and Thailand, which, though characterized by animosity for much of the Cold War, has been warming somewhat in recent years, with ties officially elevated to the level of a strategic partnership back in 2013.

 

The relationship between the two navies in particular has grown to cover a range of areas, from addressing challenges such as transnational crimes and illegal, unregulated, and unreported (IUU) fishing to stepping up visits, training, and channels of communication to broaden the scope of ongoing collaboration.

 

Full story: https://thediplomat.com/2018/08/a-new-vietnam-thailand-navy-pact/

 

-- THE DIPLOMAT 2018-2018-08-14

It will want to be better than the last Pact which saw brave RTN sailors gun down unarmed Vietnamese fishermen.

https://www.voanews.com/a/hanoi-angered-thai-shooting-vietnamese-fishermen/2968143.html

Is this navy pact likely to result in the RTN help patrolling the Spratly Islands claimed by the Vietnamese, in order to keep the Chinese at bay?

Or maybe not...

 

I thought Thailand was trying to play nicely with China - teaming up with a country that hates China is an interesting move. 

1 hour ago, lordblackader said:

I thought Thailand was trying to play nicely with China - teaming up with a country that hates China is an interesting move. 

Or a move by Thailand to help the Chinese track Vietnam naval deployments?

And when VIetnam,  scrappy as they are,  take on China at some point,  because let's face it, they sent superpowers France and America packing, where will that leave Thailand,  heavily enmeshed in Chinese quasi-government deals? 

I didn't think it flag rank foresight here could get worse than buying submarines, but it just did. 

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Small Joke

Thailand is almost surrounded by Muslims, they better hook up with some Buhddist that aren't afraid to fight .

38 minutes ago, Small Joke said:

they sent superpowers France and America packing

France hasn't been a superpower since Napoleon. 

4 minutes ago, zydeco said:

France hasn't been a superpower since Napoleon. 

Yes, hard to think of a war they've won, let alone a major battle, since 1811.

2 hours ago, lordblackader said:

I thought Thailand was trying to play nicely with China - teaming up with a country that hates China is an interesting move. 

If there's one thing the Thais are quite good at, it's playing both ends against the middle. eg WW2; and now China AND Usofa are bosom buddies ...

well, friendly talks between two dictators........

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Yes, hard to think of a war they've won, let alone a major battle, since 1811.

 

France, along with the other Allies, won WW1.

 

Major battle?

 

Second Battle of Marne 1918:  44 French divisions, 8 American divisions, 4 British divisions.

 

19th century?

 

Solferino and Magenta, Italian Wars of Independence:

 

Britain so impressed by these victories (of Napoleon the 3rd), the superior performance of French troops in the Crimean War and the resurgent power of France, that millions were spent on coastal defences ("Palmerstons Follies" et al) and HMS Warrior in fear of invasion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Thailand is almost surrounded by Muslims, they better hook up with some Buhddist that aren't afraid to fight .

 

Strange, my map shows Thailand bounded by longish borders with Myanmar (Buddhist), Laos (Buddhist) Cambodia (Buddhist) and way down at the bottom across a narrow border (and in no position to "surround") , Muslim Malaysia.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Enoon

44 minutes ago, Enoon said:

19th century?

The Mexicans defeated the French. Hah. The Mexicans!

How many submarines do they have?

8 hours ago, zydeco said:

France hasn't been a superpower since Napoleon. 

If one had Nukes in the cold war, one was a superpower.

As an aside, you will likely know that France treats her possessions as 'France'.

I've always admired that nifty diplomatic distinction.

It sidesteps messy Colonial 'demonization' rather elegantly.

In some respects I'm very progressively libertarian (NOT Liberal!) in others, I'm convinced from bitter life experience, that some nations need a little bitch-slapping for the greater good.

Looking at you Zimbabwe!

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

Strange, my map shows Thailand bounded by longish borders with Myanmar (Buddhist), Laos (Buddhist) Cambodia (Buddhist) and way down at the bottom across a narrow border (and in no position to "surround") , Muslim Malaysia.

 

 

 

 

True, but Thailand could gain a lot of ASEAN diplomatic face and lasting goodwill, plus save a ton on defence, and be seen as ever-so-progressive on the world stage if they did the 'first world thing' and returned the Malay south to the Malay.

It was never Thai to begin with.

Ever.

9 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Yes, hard to think of a war they've won, let alone a major battle, since 1811.

WW1?

If not for France, the Kaiser would have shelled Dover.

They won WW1 -with a lot of help- but they took an incredible four year hammering on home soil, and they fronted up to the end.

Also, WW2, they had the Maginot Line, an expensive medieval liability, and outdated kit, but at that point, so did Britain. 

In France, humiliation was total -think about that.

Dunkirk was not our 'finest hour' either.

Then, most of them, abandoned civilians, older men, and young women, under severe and vicious counterinsurgency by the Wehrmacht, fought on, so much so that the Beeb made an instantly recognisable sitcom out of the heroism of the resistance, such was its fame in the Commonwealth and beyond. 

If we want to go back as far as Waterloo to hate on them for following a short arsed <deleted>, especially given the proliferation of 21st Century would be Napoleons in this neck of the woods, then we're being <deleted>.

France is our ally now, and as a born Scot, it was ever so (don't <deleted> with us, either!) ? 

9 hours ago, mfd101 said:

If there's one thing the Thais are quite good at, it's playing both ends against the middle. eg WW2; and now China AND Usofa are bosom buddies ...

This does not work with China at all.

They are VERY bolshie about territory and face, even to the point of Taiwan being a diplomatic nightmare for the west since forever.

As an example, Qantas had to paint a designated Jumbo, on its now defunct Taipei route, in 'same same but different' livery, the famed flying 'roo, was replaced by some vague wavy navy tailfin design, and from memory. they re-branded the aircraft with no mention of QANTAS or Australia.

But it still looked 'Qantas-sy'.

Bonkers?

You betcha, but 'Yes Minister' to the hilt!

The point being, the Chinese, demand -and get- unequivocal allegiance.

Big big money talks, but here, even 'nid noy' money screams the house down!

Thailand will be obliged to shamelessly jump into bed with the Chinese, and even bring the Viagra!

 

4 hours ago, zydeco said:

The Mexicans defeated the French. Hah. The Mexicans!

Dont hate on Mexico, they've buggered the might of US LEOs (not a beer) with two-bit pusher-punks, as my movie cop hero Harry Callaghan might've said.

Also, these cartels are so wealthy now, they can handsomely buy out the Mexican 'Cuerpo de Fuerzas Especiales'. (SAS/SEALS)

Of course, if the erstwhile CFE bods demur... the cartels simply rape and kill momma, any sisters, and the soldiers' girl/wife.

 

Maybe it's time to legalise shit that the world lived with forever anyway, before that absolute plonker, Nixon. decided drugs were the world's worst idea ever.

 

They're not; but fighting them is -and thank you for letting me push the anti prohibition message yet again, by default. 

Salut!

3 hours ago, chama said:

How many submarines do they have?

3 to start i believe at $400M US. Please don't call them submarines. They are or will be a steel coffin for the Thai sailors that man them. What idiot would approve that. S Korea - Hyundai builds excellent Subs but maybe the kick back isn't so sweet though. 

Just now, Snow Leopard said:

3 to start i believe at $400M US. Please don't call them submarines. They are or will be a steel coffin for the Thai sailors that man them. What idiot would approve that. S Korea - Hyundai builds excellent Subs but maybe the kick back isn't so sweet though. 

Yes, its a double slap in the face for the enlisted sailors and junior officers that are going to have to deal with these un-needed iron pigs in the name of national defence.

The brass could have spent the money better salvaging abandoned Vietnam-era USN hulks off the banks the Mekong, but where's the 'Swiss Chateau' profit in that?

11 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Thailand is almost surrounded by Muslims, they better hook up with some Buhddist that aren't afraid to fight .

What Thailand are you talking about??  Certainly not the one I live in.  Surrounded??  Not likely.

It would sound like a Bangkok bus with bags of tools tied to the outside to any decent AWS system or Hunter Killer subs. The problems will arrive when they start replacing seals from Chatuchak market.

2 hours ago, Small Joke said:

If one had Nukes in the cold war, one was a superpower.

As an aside, you will likely know that France treats her possessions as 'France'.

I've always admired that nifty diplomatic distinction.

It sidesteps messy Colonial 'demonization' rather elegantly.

In some respects I'm very progressively libertarian (NOT Liberal!) in others, I'm convinced from bitter life experience, that some nations need a little bitch-slapping for the greater good.

Looking at you Zimbabwe!

That's why there are 5 permanent members of the UN security council. Ones who aren't supposed to press the big red button over a petty dispute. 

1 hour ago, Small Joke said:

Dont hate on Mexico, they've buggered the might of US LEOs (not a beer) with two-bit pusher-punks, as my movie cop hero Harry Callaghan might've said.

Also, these cartels are so wealthy now, they can handsomely buy out the Mexican 'Cuerpo de Fuerzas Especiales'. (SAS/SEALS)

Of course, if the erstwhile CFE bods demur... the cartels simply rape and kill momma, any sisters, and the soldiers' girl/wife.

 

Maybe it's time to legalise shit that the world lived with forever anyway, before that absolute plonker, Nixon. decided drugs were the world's worst idea ever.

 

They're not; but fighting them is -and thank you for letting me push the anti prohibition message yet again, by default. 

Salut!

Prohibition never works. Those people who support the war on drugs, who celebrate when people are busted are deluded hypocrites high on their own opinions.

On 8/14/2018 at 11:11 AM, Enoon said:

 

France, along with the other Allies, won WW1.

 

Major battle?

 

Second Battle of Marne 1918:  44 French divisions, 8 American divisions, 4 British divisions.

 

19th century?

 

Solferino and Magenta, Italian Wars of Independence:

 

Britain so impressed by these victories (of Napoleon the 3rd), the superior performance of French troops in the Crimean War and the resurgent power of France, that millions were spent on coastal defences ("Palmerstons Follies" et al) and HMS Warrior in fear of invasion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top marks to anyone who quoted this as a even more important French led victory of WW1:

 

First Battle of the Marne - Wikipedia

"Moltke is said to have reported to the Kaiser: "Your Majesty, we have lost the war."