simon43 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 In my new hotel we employ staff to clean the rooms and maintain the garden. Everyday, they clean each guest room, change the bed-linen as required, and keep the garden tidy. After they have cleaned the rooms, I go and clean them again, such as: - Removing dust from under the beds - Removing stray hairs from clean bed-linen - Removing sugar/coffeemate spillages - Picking up litter and cigarette ends from the garden - Checking that all litter bins in bedrooms are empty etc - General dusting etc etc etc!!!!!! Why can my cleaning staff not see these problems? I explain to them each day whenever there is something overlooked by them. They apologise and then forget the same thing next day! It is like dealing with children..... I am not obsessive about cleanliness, but this is a tourist hotel and it must be spotless. Any suggestions what to do, other than sacking them all and doing it myself? (Don't tell me that this is a prohibited job. I have yet to find a Thai who can do it.....) Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Fire the next one (loudly) that f*cks up, Tell the rest of the staff that they will be next if they don't shape up! They will either leave, shape up or get fired Might work... might not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Well, you might try positive reinforcement. Offer a significant cash bonus every week to the cleaner who is most thorough. Keep records of the flaws of each cleaner and let them know you are doing this. If that doesn't work, yeah, start firing them using a warning system. making it clear that three warnings and you're out. Edited February 7, 2007 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Get a Thai person (manager?) to fire the worst amongst them. Set an example, but do not fire them personally. They evidently don't take anything from the farang seriously, but they will from a fellow Thai. Maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chanchao Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Stick to hiring people who are either Burmese, or Lao. Edited February 7, 2007 by chanchao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Get a Thai person (manager?) to fire the worst amongst them. Set an example, but do not fire them personally. They evidently don't take anything from the farang seriously, but they will from a fellow Thai. Maybe... As soon as the dosh stops flowing they will get it, even if coming from a farang, believe me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryHacker Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Sub the cleaning out to a company like PCS, no other choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesumare Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) You should hire Burmese or Laos cleaners for a better work. Edited February 7, 2007 by Lesumare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingling Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 They just need very detailed instructions. Verbal instructions will go in one ear and out the other. Write a checklist (in Thai) detailing every step they need to do for each room. Let them know that each and every step need to be done in every room, and pay some kind of bonus to the best performer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cclub75 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 A- First, stay calm. In a way : you're extremely lucky. Because a lot of people can apply for a cleaning position. You have a huge "workers reservoir" available. I mean : consider the stress if you were talking about a... key manager position... B- Then : apply the "large number" and other probability theories. Try, fire, try, fire, try, fire, etc. At one point : you'll win, and find staff that will understand, or at least follow, your orders. Don't try to understand why they don't understand and/or respect your orders (farang, thai, culture gap, full moon or not, spicy or not, weather and other important sociological issues). It's totallty pointless. Refer to point A. I would strongly disagree with the "outsourcing" solution proposed. Enough to understand that... they face exactly the same problem. But with many more "managing" steps : your message goes to the company management, then the message is given to their own staff etc. Too complicated. Great energy and time deperdition. Last, you're not alone. In our company, the maid was cleaning everywhere. But stoped at... eyes height. It means a big spider web in a corner for instance, let's say at 1.50 meters from the ground... was not "seen" (or considered, or computed). Same with windows. We told her. Pointless. Fire, try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Try stealing staff from another hotel of your price range, go to one far enough away where you won't be known, check in, check the standard of cleaning out then if it meets what you expect offer the house keeper extra$ to change jobs. Encourage her to bring her own people. If the standard of cleaning is the same as yours, maybe you're over reacting. I usually stay in 800-1000B hotels and I don't expect 5 star service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexth Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Try stealing staff from another hotel of your price range, go to one far enough away where you won't be known, check in, check the standard of cleaning out then if it meets what you expect offer the house keeper extra$ to change jobs. Encourage her to bring her own people. If the standard of cleaning is the same as yours, maybe you're over reacting. I usually stay in 800-1000B hotels and I don't expect 5 star service. Are you for real? Where are you coming from with these ideeas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuky Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 The (domestic) cleaners we have had in the past have gone home each night to their corrugated iron shack with dirt floors shared by 10 or more people. They just haven't (a) understood how to clean/use the appliances at my house and ( they have genuinely thought that what they are doing is clean. The incentive idea sounds good, as long as there are written instructions to back it up. Some motocy riders just don't know how to drive a beemer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHM Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I have had the same problem, it took more than a year before the staff could maintain the level of cleaniless I require for my spa. They would clean up fine in the morning but it was the upkeep throughout the day where they were poor. I stopped leaving it to their judgement if a bathroom needed cleaning and insisted that the bathroom was cleaned every time a customer used one. I checked often (it felt like all the time) if they were not clean enough I would go and tell someone to clean it and then check again. It finally became second nature, now I check ocassionally and rarely find a problem. It took a long time but I never compromised my standard - even though I felt like it many times. Also I took some of the staff with me into Bangkok to sell herbal products in a five star hotel. They were speachless and couldn't believe how beautiful and clean it was - I explained this was the standard I wanted for our business - it was a lightbulb moment for them - I hadn't thought about it before but they really didn't know what I was aiming for. Since then I've seen lots of extra little touches which they picked up from that visit, they are even craving fruit. Finally - if you see something that is not acceptable - tell the staff straight away, if you let anything go then everyone thinks that it's OK to do this. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Money talks, I would have the wife or a thai manager go through a very thorough list of what they should be doing in each room & give them check list to be handed back to you for each room. When they bring the check list back you can mark off the things that weren't done (but are ont he list) & tell them that they will be docked x amount per missed chore. I am sure that they will start following the list after a few days of docked pay. I would also suggest explaining to them the level of cleaning your require. It could be that they think what they are doing is sufficient when to you it isn't. Clear that up first then bring in the check lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samtam Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thai staff have to be mirco managed. Constantly. If they don't shape up, fire them. There are plenty more out there and eventually you'll get the right ones for your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya_Fox Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Fire the next one (loudly) that f*cks up, Tell the rest of the staff that they will be next if they don't shape up!They will either leave, shape up or get fired Might work... might not I agree. If the OP has warned them on a number of occasions what is expected and the job is still not done right then they obviously could not care less and firing one should do the trick. If it doesn`t then you have not got the right staff in the first place so therefore get some more who can do the job. Customers will not thank you for having dirty rooms and if you don`t sort it you will surely lose business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Thanks for all the advice. Luckily, customers have not had dirty rooms because I check and check again throughout the day. But repeating myself everyday is getting rather boring I agree re the written checklist in Thai. I will write this for them (get my wife to check my spelling...) Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Try stealing staff from another hotel of your price range, go to one far enough away where you won't be known, check in, check the standard of cleaning out then if it meets what you expect offer the house keeper extra$ to change jobs. Encourage her to bring her own people. If the standard of cleaning is the same as yours, maybe you're over reacting. I usually stay in 800-1000B hotels and I don't expect 5 star service. Are you for real? Where are you coming from with these ideeas? Look at the original post, the guy gives us NO information other than what his staff wont do. Is this a 2K to 3K a night hotel? How much is he paying these people? Where did he get them from? Did they come with the hotel? If they've been there for years of course they don't know what he's talking about. If he's bought some backpacker rathole and wants to upgrade it he's got to upgrade the staff too, and that means their wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Sceadugenga - it's my hotel in Phuket, (I sponsor the forum). Newly-built last year, 2k per night (which is cheap for Phuket), 3-star grading, pay about 5,000 baht per month, most are from my wife's family and worked for me as bar-staff in BKK for a couple of years. So, they are not trained cleaners. But does it require training to see dirt?? It doesn't matter if this is a backpacker rathole or a 5 star paradise - cleaniness is pretty simple and important at all levels. I'll go with the written checklist. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'll go with the written checklist. Hurrah I win, do I get a prize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceadugenga Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Sceadugenga - it's my hotel in Phuket, (I sponsor the forum). Newly-built last year, 2k per night (which is cheap for Phuket), 3-star grading, pay about 5,000 baht per month, most are from my wife's family and worked for me as bar-staff in BKK for a couple of years.So, they are not trained cleaners. But does it require training to see dirt?? It doesn't matter if this is a backpacker rathole or a 5 star paradise - cleaniness is pretty simple and important at all levels. I'll go with the written checklist. Simon OK, a thousand apologies, good luck with the wife's family, when I was in business in Australia I considered employing relatives the equivalent of making a rod for your own back. Regardless of the horror expressed by Alexth headhunting staff is accepted practice world wide these days. Edited February 7, 2007 by sceadugenga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkmadness Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Sceadugenga - it's my hotel in Phuket, (I sponsor the forum). Newly-built last year, 2k per night (which is cheap for Phuket), 3-star grading, pay about 5,000 baht per month, most are from my wife's family and worked for me as bar-staff in BKK for a couple of years.So, they are not trained cleaners. But does it require training to see dirt?? It doesn't matter if this is a backpacker rathole or a 5 star paradise - cleaniness is pretty simple and important at all levels. I'll go with the written checklist. Simon Employing the wife's family as cleaners? I think they are following the rest of the family's example and taking the piss out of you Simon. I expect they doubt they could be sacked and will do as little work as they can get away with. Are you even allowed to sack them? Why isn't your wife dealing with this? You've been running a hotel for how many months now and can't even get people to clean the rooms correctly? And the cleaners are related to your wife? Nothings been said to them from her? What a silly problem to have. ps. Dying to know as well, did you shell out that 30 K that your wife lied to you about before? I bet you did! Edited February 7, 2007 by bkkmadness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattaya_Fox Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I'll go with the written checklist. Hurrah I win, do I get a prize You deserve the cleanest room in the hotel for at least a weekend....but don`t forget to take a mop and bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slackula Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Sceadugenga - it's my hotel in Phuket, (I sponsor the forum). Newly-built last year, 2k per night (which is cheap for Phuket), 3-star grading, pay about 5,000 baht per month, most are from my wife's family and worked for me as bar-staff in BKK for a couple of years. Without knowing exactly your hotel, I would say that that sounds like a recipe for trouble. Having the Mrs. family on the payroll is always going to make things difficult. Find a good House Keeping supervisor, put *her* on what you can afford and go after her daily: make them set up show rooms for walk-in inspections, spot check rooms at random after they have been made up and set standards; take pictures of a bad room and a good room and give them to the supervisor to follow up. It takes time but you'll get there eventually. Document *everything* in pictures or emails or memos etc, because if you have to fire the wife's family you are going to need supporting info. How much service charge are you paying? That will make a huge difference in staff performance currently in Phuket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 1. Don't hire relatives for this kind of job. They will do as little as possible. So fire them or put them to do something else. 2. Hire a new fresh bunch and promote the one with most experience. This person will be responsible against you for the crew. You only deal with this person. 3. You request that she keeps track of who is good and who is bad (rewards vs fire), and reward her with a bonus when everything goes smoothly. If something is wrong you only inform her and she will handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryHacker Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Sceadugenga - it's my hotel in Phuket, (I sponsor the forum). Newly-built last year, 2k per night (which is cheap for Phuket), 3-star grading, pay about 5,000 baht per month, most are from my wife's family and worked for me as bar-staff in BKK for a couple of years.So, they are not trained cleaners. But does it require training to see dirt?? It doesn't matter if this is a backpacker rathole or a 5 star paradise - cleaniness is pretty simple and important at all levels. I'll go with the written checklist. Simon Employing the wife's family as cleaners? I think they are following the rest of the family's example and taking the piss out of you Simon. I expect they doubt they could be sacked and will do as little work as they can get away with. Are you even allowed to sack them? Why isn't your wife dealing with this? You've been running a hotel for how many months now and can't even get people to clean the rooms correctly? And the cleaners are related to your wife? Nothings been said to them from her? What a silly problem to have. ps. Dying to know as well, did you shell out that 30 K that your wife lied to you about before? I bet you did! ‘'Simon’s Hotel’' is turning into a nice little soap opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 ‘'Simon’s Hotel’' is turning into a nice little soap opera. I'm rivetted! Maybe there could be some kind of "Big Brother" scenario, to see which idling "cleaner" gets the bullet last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I was thinking the same thing. Reading Simons post I keep having thoughts of Fawtly Towers flashing through my mind. For someone trying to promote a new hotel it may be wise not to air so much dirty washing in public. There have been over 400 views of this topic and they could all be potential customers lost. I appreciate Simon is trying to improve his business, and assures us everything is clean, but I for one would think twice before booking a room in his hotel based on the troubles he has posted in this thread and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuky Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 it may be wise not to air so much dirty washing in public From the sounds of things it is the only way he is going to get his washing done Seriously, Farma has somewhat of a point. However Simon has stated several times that he ensures the hotel is spotless, he just wants to vent because it takes him more work than it should, paid staff should not need the owner checking their work. Some great ideas have been presented and I am sure Simon has the information he set out to find. I would definately stay at his hotel if I was allowed to go to Phuket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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