Begpackers in Chiang Mai Night Bazaar

[SammyT]

2 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

Had you put as much effort to chat with him to ascertain the circumstances that brought him to his present predicament as you have in posting and responding to various replies, then your original post might have been considerably more interesting to read. Maybe he’s had his passport stolen, there’s so many different possibilities that are often beyond one’s control.


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LOL. Lost passport? An embassy will help you out with that. His sign said he can't afford an airfare, so you're deliberately going down the wrong track. Like I said earlier, if you have enough money to travel, you should have enough money for an airfare home and insurance for unforseen circumstances. Hence, I wouldn't bother sitting down and talking to him, because I'm not sure I'd want to be seen with someone idiotic enough to travel without both of the above things

[SammyT]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

I think the Tuk Tuk drivers,Somtum sellers ,will not be pissed off in the least,

just mind their own business ,unlike you,best not to criticize anyone you don't

know,and the circumstances they are living under, BUT if it makes you feel

superior. 

regards worgeordie

Again, the "circumstances" they are living under? 

 

Enough money to travel to a far off land, but not enough money for travel insurance or an airfare home? He would have almost certainly been from a country with more wealth than Thailand, yet here he is, peddling his sob story on the streets of a country which boasts around 7 million people living below the poverty line. 

 

I've said it once and I'll say it again - everyone on here is happy to put the boot into Thai people at the drop of a hat, but how dare anyone criticise another Farang? The comments on this forum every day from a majority are criticising Thais s being violent, money-hungry, deceitful etc, yet a guy who had enough money to travel to a foreign country that is now begging is untouchable?

 

I generally enjoy reading your comments, but we're probably never gonna agree on this one

[thaiguzzi]

12 hours ago, SammyT said:

My point is it's an embarrassment to see someone who has the money to travel sitting in an area heavily populated by street vendors best described as poor asking for money so he can get home.

 

An embarrassment for who? You are the guy?

Maybe the guy is, but has no options.

Why did'nt you ask him?

Me? i would'nt be embarrassed to see the guy.

I'd be embarrassed to ask for money and beg, that's not my style, no matter what the situation, but, each person & situation is different, and who am i to criticize?

[chuang]

Well farangs have dinosaur's skin

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[Odysseus123]

There must be 10 pound 'Victor Meldrew' airline ticket tailored exclusively for Thai bound expats..

 

Apparently,if you are in the know,you can purchase them at the Holier-than-Thou counter.

 

 

[SammyT]

3 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Apparently,if you are in the know,you can purchase them at the Holier-than-Thou counter.

 

 

I'm pretty sure most visas require a return airfare in the first place. Nothing holier-than-thou about it. Common sense maybe, but not holier-than-thou

[YogaVeg]

19 minutes ago, SammyT said:

LOL. Lost passport? An embassy will help you out with that...

 

Hence, I wouldn't bother sitting down and talking to him, because I'm not sure I'd want to be seen with someone idiotic enough to travel without both of the above things

Yeah an embassy will help PROVIDED you bring them $200.

 

Such a compassionate person you display yourself as.

 

Here is a scenario: I go to the beach, and upon return my pack is gone. It had everything in it: passport, money, ccs, my phone. I've managed to send out some emails but given a 12 hour time difference, no response yet. I can't even buy a bottle of water.

 

Oh geez, but how terrible it would be for you to embarrass yourself by talking to me.

[YogaVeg]

6 minutes ago, SammyT said:

I'm pretty sure most visas require a return airfare in the first place. Nothing holier-than-thou about it. Common sense maybe, but not holier-than-thou

Guess again, you are wrong. I'm here on a 60 day TV and a one-way ticket brought me here

[Lacessit]

I don't have a problem with giving money to Thai beggars, they have very hard lives. Damned if I would give to a farang beggar, for several reasons. The first being there's no way of knowing whether their predicament is genuine, or just a con.

I'm wondering what Thais think when they see a farang beggar. I agree with the OP - it's embarrassing when people who are effectively guests in a country resort to begging.

[SammyT]

3 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

Here is a scenario: I go to the beach, and upon return my pack is gone. It had everything in it: passport, money, ccs, my phone. I've managed to send out some emails but given a 12 hour time difference, no response yet. I can't even buy a bottle of water.

 

Except this guy is asking for an airfare home, not the scenario you provided. Hence, apples and oranges.

 

To clarify an earlier post of yours - I'm not saying all backpackers are described as "begpackers". Begpacker is a reasonably well established term for travellers who beg to fund their travels. So don't get so precious. I have done my share of backpacking as well - this isn't an attack on backpackers in general

[YogaVeg]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I don't have a problem with giving money to Thai beggars, they have very hard lives. Damned if I would give to a farang beggar, for several reasons. The first being there's no way of knowing whether their predicament is genuine, or just a con.

I'm wondering what Thais think when they see a farang beggar. I agree with the OP - it's embarrassing when people who are effectively guests in a country resort to begging.

I don't disagree with this, I tend to give to anyone who asks, but would be far more critical of the foreigner.

 

That said, I am hardly personally embarrassed by someone else's actions. I find the concept laughable and reeking of judgement.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

I don't disagree with this, I tend to give to anyone who asks, but would be far more critical of the foreigner.

 

That said, I am hardly personally embarrassed by someone else's actions. I find the concept laughable and reeking of judgement.

I don't think you can have it both ways. You're saying you'd be far more critical of the foreigner, but that's not making a judgment?

The embarrassment for me arises because a foreign beggar in Thailand puts other foreigners in a poor light with Thais.

You're not one of these posters who doesn't care what Thais think, are you?

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't have a problem with giving money to Thai beggars, they have very hard lives.

Most Thai beggers are run by gangs.

[Lacessit]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Most Thai beggers are run by gangs.

I guess that would make their life even harder.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I guess that would make their life even harder.

..But then you would be founding some sort of mafia.

[YogaVeg]

4 minutes ago, SammyT said:

 

Except this guy is asking for an airfare home, not the scenario you provided. Hence, apples and oranges.

 

To clarify an earlier post of yours - I'm not saying all backpackers are described as "begpackers". Begpacker is a reasonably well established term for travellers who beg to fund their travels. So don't get so precious. I have done my share of backpacking as well - this isn't an attack on backpackers in general

Fair enough, but still, you are picking straws. Does what they specifically ask for the determine your level of compassion? So, an airline ticket is not worthy but maybe food is? Does the thing they ask for qualify your level of embarrassment or the degree of which you would be willing to communicate with them?

 

I see it like this: if someone reaches out in need, is it my obligation to judge or to help?

I spent decades living and working in the SF Bay area where there is no shortage of begging. I remember at one time having the attitude: if it is for food, I will give, but if it is for drugs or alcohol then no way.

I got to play judge and jury with each request. Felt good for the ego I suppose.

 

One day I read a book by Ram Dass, where he discussed "serving humanity" in ways I had never contemplated before. I'm not a particularly religious person, but his message of "treat each soul you meet as an expression of the Divine" really resonates with me.

 

If folks come to me with need, be it essential or perhaps just a way to ease their pain, who am I to judge?

 

At the end of one's life, breathing in the enormity of one's life experiences, what will matter more? The amount of compassion and love they shared, or the material wealth they hoarded and the volume of judgement they cast?

 

I know what my intuition tells me is really important in this mysterious journey we call life.

Human interaction and how we treat each other.

And as it is said, either every single thing matters, or none of it does at all.

 

[Spidey]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

..But then you would be founding some sort of mafia.

 

I can remember being in Phnom Penh with my, then, Cambodian girlfriend. She told me, quite firmly, not to give to beggars in the street as they were all run by the local mafia. As soon as we were out of Phnom Penh, no problem, we both gave to beggars.

 

it's the same in Pattaya, women with babies begging in the street. Usually Cambodians and the kids are borrowed for the day. They don't get to keep the money.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

 

I can remember being in Phnom Penh with my, then, Cambodian girlfriend. She told me, quite firmly, not to give to beggars in the street as they were all run by the local mafia. As soon as we were out of Phnom Penh, no problem, we both gave to beggars.

 

it's the same in Pattaya, women with babies begging in the street. Usually Cambodians and the kids are borrowed for the day. They don't get to keep the money.

I heard horror stories in India, about orphan children deliberately maimed for making them long-life beggars.

Mind boggling if you ask me.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

 

I know what my intuition tells me is really important in this mysterious journey we call life.

Human interaction and how we treat each other.

And as it is said, either every single thing matters, or none of it does at all.

 

 

What my intuition tells me is important to me too. When I interact with these begpackers, my intuition tells me that they're treating me like a sap. This single thing matters which is why I treat them like saps too.

[SammyT]

5 minutes ago, YogaVeg said:

Fair enough, but still, you are picking straws. Does what they specifically ask for the determine your level of compassion? So, an airline ticket is not worthy but maybe food is? Does the thing they ask for qualify your level of embarrassment or the degree of which you would be willing to communicate with them?

 

Absolutely. And I mean that in the least heartless way possible. As a traveller - being stranded in a foreign country without a return airline ticket is a completely preventable thing, given how far in advance you can book return airfares, or also just silo-ing off enough money in your bank to make sure you have that cash available. 

 

The scenario you used earlier is quite different and would almost certainly elicit a different response from me. I'd buy a farang a meal who had just had all their stuff stolen and was waiting on their insurer to come up with some money. That's an unforeseen event . Running out of money for an airfare home isn't . 

[SammyT]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

I can remember being in Phnom Penh with my, then, Cambodian girlfriend. She told me, quite firmly, not to give to beggars in the street as they were all run by the local mafia. As soon as we were out of Phnom Penh, no problem, we both gave to beggars.

 

it's the same in Pattaya, women with babies begging in the street. Usually Cambodians and the kids are borrowed for the day. They don't get to keep the money.

 

 

Yup, pretty tragic all round.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1332451/gangs-run-hired-out-beggar-kids

[Dick Crank]

Stop your whining dude

 

beggars exist the world over and the reasons are different for each case

 

Give if it suits you, if not move on. Just shut your mouth.

[chuang]

Why don't they beg from the airlines they issue the tickets...or beg from their embassies...they are their countrymen...

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Well I do give money to bums on the street, not lying scammers, never to charities or Beggar gangs.

I don't expect anything out of it and I do not care if they buy food, beer or weed.

If you are down and out $20 bucks or (100 baht is a godsend).

 

I bought a dude new clothes at GAP and a ticket to fly from HNL back to LAX, he didn't show up for the flight.

 

The foreigners who approach on the street in Thailand are liar, all of them. There can't possibly be that many well dressed young men in BKK who just need a "few hundred baht" for bus fare home. First a bus ticket is 17 baht.

 

 

 

[lipflipper]

 
So you don't think "begpacking" is an accurate term to describe someone begging to fund their travels? How would you describe someone sitting with a sign and a begging cup asking for handouts for an airfare?
 
No envy here. I worked my ass off to afford my trips and continue to travel. I had a great time backpacking and have a great time traveling now/ I find it offensive that people put their hands out and ask other people to fund their travel. 
 
To show how wrong your assumptions are - I'm in my early thirties, not retired when life was almost over. I've managed to both travel widely, do a job I love and become financially secure. But well done for jumping to conclusions.

Keep having a go at SammyT. You will end up coming off as second best. Clearly the Lad has his head squarely attached to his shoulders. Oh, so you can now have a go at me I refer to most of these types as <deleted> packers.

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[Bill97]

Without a doubt Sammy T would be a better person if he had found himself half way around the world from home with no money and no electronic access to any, and got it sorted on his own. A valuable experience he is lacking.

Or he could go to India with $10 to live on for a year. Probably the better alternative since his mommy could bail him out of the first one.


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[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

..But then you would be founding some sort of mafia.

Are you serious? The Thai mafia has been around long before I came here.

In any case, I can't judge whether a beggar with one leg or arm missing is part of a gang. I just give on what I think are the handicaps they have in life.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Are you serious? The Thai mafia has been around long before I came here.

In any case, I can't judge whether a beggar with one leg or arm missing is part of a gang. I just give on what I think are the handicaps they have in life.

Fair enough, years ago somebody was filming the vans taking them to central Bkk, and come in the evening to take them home.

You are right, nonetheless, and when i stroll around Bkk, i always make sure that i have coins in my pockets to give some to the less fortunate.

[SammyT]

36 minutes ago, Bill97 said:

Without a doubt Sammy T would be a better person if he had found himself half way around the world from home with no money and no electronic access to any, and got it sorted on his own. A valuable experience he is lacking.

Or he could go to India with $10 to live on for a year. Probably the better alternative since his mommy could bail him out of the first one.


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Do you always make such rash assumptions? As I said earlier, I've funded my own extensive travels - no handouts or bail outs. 

 

I'm pretty sure a "better person" wouldn't be as stupid as to travel halfway around the world from home without a return airfare or travel insurance. Having good planning so that you don't end up in those situations doesn't make you a worse or lesser person than the guy begpacking, but I suspect you already knew that and you were just going with an ad-hominem argument because you had no other rational point to make

[SammyT]

1 hour ago, Dick Crank said:

Stop your whining dude

 

beggars exist the world over and the reasons are different for each case

 

Give if it suits you, if not move on. Just shut your mouth.

 

Correct, beggars do exist the world over. But generally because they don't have enough money to put food in their mouth. Not because they planned poorly on their overseas trip and now want the general public to fund their trip home. 

 

Keep comparing apples and oranges though.