Why are Thai people so against thinking?

[grollies]

What's Artificial Insemination got to do with this topic?

[RickBradford]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

What critical thinking skills are necessary in education before the PhD level? I was told what to think and what conclusions to draw and what were priority items until I got to graduate school. 

Then I feel genuinely sorry for you.

 

I was never taught what to think, only how to think.

 

That enabled me to draw my own conclusions rather than blindly accepting what other people told me were the correct conclusions to draw.

 

Being told what to think at a young age seems very much of a piece with the dictum of a famous revolutionary.

 

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." - Vladimir Lenin

 

 

[marcusarelus]

17 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Then I feel genuinely sorry for you.

 

I was never taught what to think, only how to think.

 

That enabled me to draw my own conclusions rather than blindly accepting what other people told me were the correct conclusions to draw.

 

Being told what to think at a young age seems very much of a piece with the dictum of a famous revolutionary.

 

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." - Vladimir Lenin

So, the teachers let you decide to spell it, to or too or two?  They let you decide if 2+2=6? 

 

Nobody ever gives me a straight answer to my questions.  Tell me what conclusions were you asked to draw while learin readin, writin, and rithmatic? 

 

I remember telling Father O'Malley that it's my conclusion that god just doesn't make any sense.  And Father O'Malley hit me so hard I ended up on the other side of the classroom. 

 

I remember my Civil War instructor in college kicking me out of class when I asked "if the civil war was about slavery why did Lincoln only abolish slavery in the Southern States and only after two years of war?" 

 

When I learned how to play chess the first years were spent studying games by famous players.  It was a long time till I began to construct my own attacks and defenses.  Same with every education system I've been involved with.  

 

You can't give me one example of critical thinking skills used before graduate school.  Do you want your doctor to draw his own conclusions about your appendix operation of take it out like others have done for years?  Do you want your airplane pilot to try a new approach to the airport of use the same one all the other pilots have used for years?  

 

People on this forum just mouth platitudes about Thais not thinking and only learning by rote but when asked to name an exception to rote learning anywhere no one can come up with one.  

 

There are 10,000 Thais that work for Ford.  They get up every day and go to work and go home eat dinner and watch TV just like the 10,000 Americans that work for Ford in Detroit.  No difference.  Thai employees of Ford think just as much or as little as American employees of Ford. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by marcusarelus

[RickBradford]

10 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So, the teachers let you decide to spell it, to or too or two?  They let you decide if 2+2=6? 

I was fortunate to be born smart enough so that I was introduced to 2 + 2 = 4 some years before I entered the educational system.

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

I was fortunate to be born smart enough so that I was introduced to 2 + 2 = 4 some years before I entered the educational system.

Is 2+2=4 an example of critical thinking or rote learning?

[CharlieH]

Reported post and off topic removed.

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, RickBradford said:

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

What critical thinking skills are necessary in education before the PhD level? I was told what to think and what conclusions to draw and what were priority items until I got to graduate school. 

Then I feel genuinely sorry for you.

 

I was never taught what to think, only how to think.

 

That enabled me to draw my own conclusions rather than blindly accepting what other people told me were the correct conclusions to draw.

 

Being told what to think at a young age seems very much of a piece with the dictum of a famous revolutionary.

 

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." - Vladimir Lenin

 

"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted." - Vladimir Lenin

 

"all we are saying, is give peace a chance" . John Lennon

Edited October 5, 2018 by atyclb

[RickBradford]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Is 2+2=4 an example of critical thinking or rote learning?

Nobody teaches us that 2+2=4, for heaven's sake, they show us.

 

If you have 2 beans, and then you add 2 more, how many do you have?

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

People Thai "think"as  much as  any  other. What and  how they think is  as  determined  by the  education, diseducation. miseducation they receive as much as the  social/cultural freedom to express what they think. The suggestion  of  discussion about what they think is what results in the "thinking too much" response. It is more accurate that that so many have no informational basis for  debate beyond their informational experience. It is  easy  for those who have a background  of reasonable levels of education on a  broad level to deride those who have been denied the same. Education is  mostly  based on imparting  information. As  such it can  be  honest or propagandist.Education does  not transfer thinking. It infers an informational  basis of tested  understanding to  cater for the capacity  to  think .Think about  that a  moment!

Pertinent to this is the superior attitude  of those many who deride the capacity to "think" of those Thai whose position in Thai society is constricted. Perhaps those that happily do so demonstrate their own limitations by association in the pursuit of a sense of superiority they failed to achieve in their original social/cultural origins? Now they defend some sense of superior status as expats existing on diminishing value pensions etc. Meanwhile those "unthinking Thai"  continue  life as they  know it regardless of what you may think what they  think. 

 

 

 

[RickBradford]

11 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Education is  mostly  based on imparting  information.

No, not really. Not a good education, anyway.

 

The Latin roots of the word 'education' are something like a 'bringing out', which means providing a mechanism for enabling people to test the truth of a proposition for themselves. That's much more powerful.

 

If you impart the information that 'capitalism is bad' or even 'capitalism is good', you haven't educated students, or even persuaded them. All they learn is that an authority figure wants them to think that 'capitalism is x'.

 

If you lay out the evidence for a proposition, and encourage students to constantly ask 'Why?" and to challenge the teachers, then the end result is 'education'.

 

I don't think that happens anywhere in Thailand, and judging by some responses in this thread, not that much in the West any more.

[Edgar Wallace]

We are skilled in Aristoteles Greek thinking..excuse my bad english, because I'm not native ..so european logic is not a Asian like..they are much more emotional in their behaviour..infact after many years here I have the opinion they are still even in their 50ties ..like children..

[rumak]

On 9/29/2018 at 9:20 AM, marcusarelus said:

I bet you can't give me one example of critical thinking that is taught from day one in Western schools.  I have heard this over and over again but whenever I ask for an example the only thing that is returned is I get flamed.  Maybe you are different and can provide one specific example of critical thinking taught from day one in Western schools.

I think if you substitute the words critical thinking with "entitlement" the poster of that sentence would be a lot more accurate.

[Brunolem]

21 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

People Thai "think"as  much as  any  other. What and  how they think is  as  determined  by the  education, diseducation. miseducation they receive as much as the  social/cultural freedom to express what they think. The suggestion  of  discussion about what they think is what results in the "thinking too much" response. It is more accurate that that so many have no informational basis for  debate beyond their informational experience. It is  easy  for those who have a background  of reasonable levels of education on a  broad level to deride those who have been denied the same. Education is  mostly  based on imparting  information. As  such it can  be  honest or propagandist.Education does  not transfer thinking. It infers an informational  basis of tested  understanding to  cater for the capacity  to  think .Think about  that a  moment!

Pertinent to this is the superior attitude  of those many who deride the capacity to "think" of those Thai whose position in Thai society is constricted. Perhaps those that happily do so demonstrate their own limitations by association in the pursuit of a sense of superiority they failed to achieve in their original social/cultural origins? Now they defend some sense of superior status as expats existing on diminishing value pensions etc. Meanwhile those "unthinking Thai"  continue  life as they  know it regardless of what you may think what they  think. 

 

 

 

This is quite brilliant, especially the last part...

 

Many foreigners do indeed adopt a superior attitude when they are in Thailand, flashing some money and knowledge which have very little value in their country of origin.

 

Yet, these people have no capacity for observation and would make the same comments if they were in Bolivia or in Sri Lanka...they don't feel superior to Thais but to people living in developing countries in general.

 

They wouldn't be able to tell what is specific to Thai people.

 

Now, one may wonder who in the end is better off, a society that lives its life on a day to day basis without giving much thought to anything, or one (our Western civilization) that is fully invested in thinking in all its forms with the result of bringing the whole world to the edge of the precipice, both on the financial side and the environmental side, not to mention the massive geopolitical tensions.

 

Thai people don't look for big and bigger, as Westerners and Thai-Chinese from Bangkok do.

Instead they rely on small interconnected networks: family, friends of family, a little elbow grease here and there...and it works.

 

There are less homeless people in Thailand than in Paris or Los Angeles!

 

 

 

 

 

[rumak]

you know, there are quite a few posters here (mostly westerners, i assume) that seem to be well schooled,

fairly intelligent,  knowledgeable about certain subjects, and (not to leave out.....pretty opinionated).

what i can't figure out is why IMHO so many of them write or say something that make me think " glad I don't have to deal with them on a daily basis".   

To keep it on topic,  yes.... i used to hear thais say that i think a lot (kit mak).   I think people in general just don't want to be questioned about why this and why don't you do that.  After all, most people, thai or farang,  are pretty set in their ways already.  It is normal for any couple or family group to have different mindsets and ways of doing things.  I think the farangs that are most unhappy are the ones that have not chosen a mate that most of all has similar values (assuming, that is ,that he is the great catch many would have us believe).  

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, RickBradford said:

Nobody teaches us that 2+2=4, for heaven's sake, they show us.

 

If you have 2 beans, and then you add 2 more, how many do you have?

Thais are taught arithmetic for example 2+2=4.  Children in the West are taught arithmetic 2+2=4.

A teacher teaches them arithmetic and that requires thought.  Children in the West think and Thai children think in the same way and the same amount to learn the arithmetic they are taught.

 

10.000 Ford employees in Thailand go to work and go home after work and watch TV and eat dinner.  10,000 Ford employees in America go to work and go home after work and watch TV and eat dinner.  They both think about the same things and think in the same way - do the same amount of thinking.  I know as I have worked for both Ford in Thailand and America.  Thais are not against thinking.  The OP is simply trying to find another way to bash Thais so we won't get bored with the usual 26 ways to bash Thais by people who don't have enough money or ability or whatever to live in Thailand. 

 

[zzaa09]

8 hours ago, Brunolem said:

This is quite brilliant, especially the last part...

 

Many foreigners do indeed adopt a superior attitude when they are in Thailand, flashing some money and knowledge which have very little value in their country of origin.

 

Yet, these people have no capacity for observation and would make the same comments if they were in Bolivia or in Sri Lanka...they don't feel superior to Thais but to people living in developing countries in general.

 

They wouldn't be able to tell what is specific to Thai people.

 

Now, one may wonder who in the end is better off, a society that lives its life on a day to day basis without giving much thought to anything, or one (our Western civilization) that is fully invested in thinking in all its forms with the result of bringing the whole world to the edge of the precipice, both on the financial side and the environmental side, not to mention the massive geopolitical tensions.

 

Thai people don't look for big and bigger, as Westerners and Thai-Chinese from Bangkok do.

Instead they rely on small interconnected networks: family, friends of family, a little elbow grease here and there...and it works.

 

There are less homeless people in Thailand than in Paris or Los Angeles!

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks.

Easily, the most reasoned post throughout this thread. 

[jackspade]

In defence of Thais, it must be said that the educated higher classes tend to be the better thinkers, both here at home. Therefore it is somewhat unfair and narrow-minded when we as foreigners paint all Thais with the broad brush that we have dipped only in the palette of the lower, uneducated classes with which the vast majority of us associate. Before you argue your case, I said Most Of Us. You reading this may certainly be an exception.

 

Additionally, most foreigners in Thailand speak zero Thai, and even if they think their Thai is very good compared to others, it's almost certainly not. I am often told my Thai is excellent by cab drivers and shop owners, but I myself know not to take them seriously and that it's nowhere near good enough to understand complex, abstract ideas in Thai. Since most thinking Thais, like most thinking people, presumedly think in complex, abstract ideas that we can't presume to understand, it's also somewhat unfair to assume that they don't think at all.

Edited October 6, 2018 by jackspade

[neeray]

13 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Thai people don't look for big and bigger, as Westerners and Thai-Chinese from Bangkok do.

Instead they rely on small interconnected networks: family, friends of family, a little elbow grease here and there...and it works.

 

There are less homeless people in Thailand than in Paris or Los Angeles!

 

 

 

This is a fine piece of writing, a great observation. Thank you.

 

From my very first trip to Thailand, I was captivated by my observations. I should clarify, it was not Bangkok but south, Ao Nang, Krabi, Surat Thani and surrounding area extensively.

What I observed was many Thais going about their business, and minding their own business, each eking out a living, many doing the same thing in a different town or village.

 

My own analogy of this was that they made me think of ants, all going about their business each day. I have had many trips to the Kingdom since then, my observations remain the same. My trips are now to the Chiang Mai area ..... more of the same, just even a little bit more friendlier people, but no complaints about the many whom I met, observed and interacted with in the south.

 

I have great respect for the Thai people, a respect that I have never felt for the citizenship in North America where I have spent my whole life. 

 

Subsequent to that first trip, I joined ThaiVisa. I have read tens of thousands of posts since. I see some who's experiences and opinions are aligned with mine. But I've also read from many who malign and degrade these beautiful and fortunate people.

 

Thank you Thailand for welcoming me.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, jackspade said:

In defence of Thais, it must be said that the educated higher classes tend to be the better thinkers, both here at home. Therefore it is somewhat unfair and narrow-minded when we as foreigners paint all Thais with the broad brush that we have dipped only in the palette of the lower, uneducated classes with which the vast majority of us associate. Before you argue your case, I said Most Of Us. You reading this may certainly be an exception.

 

Additionally, most foreigners in Thailand speak zero Thai, and even if they think their Thai is very good compared to others, it's almost certainly not. I am often told my Thai is excellent by cab drivers and shop owners, but I myself know not to take them seriously and that it's nowhere near good enough to understand complex, abstract ideas in Thai. Since most thinking Thais, like most thinking people, presumedly think in complex, abstract ideas that we can't presume to understand, it's also somewhat unfair to assume that they don't think at all.

Of course all the Thais think, one way or another, otherwise as I wrote previously, that would mean that they are in a deep state of meditation (the only way of not thinking), which is unlikely.

 

Having said that, I used to deal with highly educated Thais while working in Bangkok, and indeed they were thinking in a very similar fashion as Westerners do, but...the very large majority of them were Thai-Chinese!

 

To some, such a distinction seems to be of no consequence, but it is...these are two different populations sharing the same country.

 

And in the same way that Thais from the high society don't mingle with retired foreigners in shorts and slippers, Thai-Chinese don't mingle with Thai-Lao as they call them.

 

Outside Bangkok, in remote little cities in Isaan, Thai-Chinese hold most if not all the successful businesses and they are the ones with whom you can have a conversation...they also are the ones who can speak English and who send their children to study abroad, well aware of the quality of the local education system.

 

That is not to say that there are no Thais who are deep thinkers, but only that once the Thai-Chinese removed from the picture, their number is not so high...

 

But then again, in the long run too much thinking, especially when focused on "always more", may prove much more damaging than too little thinking...

Edited October 6, 2018 by Brunolem

[rumak]

15 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Thais are taught arithmetic for example 2+2=4.  Children in the West are taught arithmetic 2+2=4.

A teacher teaches them arithmetic and that requires thought.  Children in the West think and Thai children think in the same way and the same amount to learn the arithmetic they are taught.

 

10.000 Ford employees in Thailand go to work and go home after work and watch TV and eat dinner.  10,000 Ford employees in America go to work and go home after work and watch TV and eat dinner.  They both think about the same things and think in the same way - do the same amount of thinking.  I know as I have worked for both Ford in Thailand and America.  Thais are not against thinking.  The OP is simply trying to find another way to bash Thais so we won't get bored with the usual 26 ways to bash Thais by people who don't have enough money or ability or whatever to live in Thailand. 

 

Kinda true.  All those 10,000 live pretty similar lives (go to work....go home...watch tv).  But i would have to

say from my observations that the thais (though making much less money) manage a lot more smiles and good humor than their counterparts.  I wish i knew their secret......actually the less i think the better i feel.

So maybe that's it !

[Dumbastheycome]

16 hours ago, RickBradford said:

No, not really. Not a good education, anyway.

 

The Latin roots of the word 'education' are something like a 'bringing out', which means providing a mechanism for enabling people to test the truth of a proposition for themselves. That's much more powerful.

 

If you impart the information that 'capitalism is bad' or even 'capitalism is good', you haven't educated students, or even persuaded them. All they learn is that an authority figure wants them to think that 'capitalism is x'.

 

If you lay out the evidence for a proposition, and encourage students to constantly ask 'Why?" and to challenge the teachers, then the end result is 'education'.

 

I don't think that happens anywhere in Thailand, and judging by some responses in this thread, not that much in the West any more.

I fully agree.

As you say there has been a decline in the west. There, as in Thailand for wealthy Thai, private education seems deemed sufficient to provide adequate numbers. The exception to that are those  few who in recognition of some talent are provided sponsorship. 

The  disenfranchised majority, some of who may and do have greater intellectual potential, tend to demonstrate initiative despite.Unfortunately too often in socially disruptive enterprise.

[lapd]

27 minutes ago, rumak said:

I wish i knew their secret......actually the less i think the better i feel.

3

You answered your own question.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

Kinda true.  All those 10,000 live pretty similar lives (go to work....go home...watch tv).  But i would have to

say from my observations that the thais (though making much less money) manage a lot more smiles and good humor than their counterparts.  I wish i knew their secret......actually the less i think the better i feel.

So maybe that's it !

Have you ever seen the women in Detroit?

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Of course all the Thais think, one way or another, otherwise as I wrote previously, that would mean that they are in a deep state of meditation (the only way of not thinking), which is unlikely.

 

Having said that, I used to deal with highly educated Thais while working in Bangkok, and indeed they were thinking in a very similar fashion as Westerners do, but...the very large majority of them were Thai-Chinese!

 

To some, such a distinction seems to be of no consequence, but it is...these are two different populations sharing the same country.

 

And in the same way that Thais from the high society don't mingle with retired foreigners in shorts and slippers, Thai-Chinese don't mingle with Thai-Lao as they call them.

 

Outside Bangkok, in remote little cities in Isaan, Thai-Chinese hold most if not all the successful businesses and they are the ones with whom you can have a conversation...they also are the ones who can speak English and who send their children to study abroad, well aware of the quality of the local education system.

 

That is not to say that there are no Thais who are deep thinkers, but only that once the Thai-Chinese removed from the picture, their number is not so high...

 

But then again, in the long run too much thinking, especially when focused on "always more", may prove much more damaging than too little thinking...

The Thai-Chinese certainly do mingle with the Thai-Lao.  Who do you think is the leader of the people in Issan?  Seriously though do you want to go down that old silly trail?  Thais like anyone with money. 

[SteveK]

I would argue that Thai people think just as much as anyone, they just don't WORRY the way we do in the West. Which is what makes the lifestyle here so great.

[melvinmelvin]

22 minutes ago, pr9spk said:

I would argue that Thai people think just as much as anyone, they just don't WORRY the way we do in the West. Which is what makes the lifestyle here so great.

 

tend to agree with that one,

Thais don't waste much time and resources on being sad, angry, pissed off about things they can't really change

 

 

[bwpage3]

9 hours ago, neeray said:

 

This is a fine piece of writing, a great observation. Thank you.

 

From my very first trip to Thailand, I was captivated by my observations. I should clarify, it was not Bangkok but south, Ao Nang, Krabi, Surat Thani and surrounding area extensively.

What I observed was many Thais going about their business, and minding their own business, each eking out a living, many doing the same thing in a different town or village.

 

My own analogy of this was that they made me think of ants, all going about their business each day. I have had many trips to the Kingdom since then, my observations remain the same. My trips are now to the Chiang Mai area ..... more of the same, just even a little bit more friendlier people, but no complaints about the many whom I met, observed and interacted with in the south.

 

I have great respect for the Thai people, a respect that I have never felt for the citizenship in North America where I have spent my whole life. 

 

Subsequent to that first trip, I joined ThaiVisa. I have read tens of thousands of posts since. I see some who's experiences and opinions are aligned with mine. But I've also read from many who malign and degrade these beautiful and fortunate people.

 

Thank you Thailand for welcoming me.

Are you really sure Thailand welcomed you?

 

Did they roll out the red carpet and have a glorious celebration?

 

Beautiful and fortunate people describe what you want to believe.

 

In Thailand as in any other country in the world, there is good and there is bad; one only has to read the news everyday to see their are many people committing bad acts in Thailand.

 

 

[SteveK]

If you thought Thai people were like ants, try going to Shenzhen or Shanghai! There is no individuality, only a collective hive mentality about everything.

[rumak]

i have just read most of the posts in this thread.    Puat hua !

[balo]

On 10/6/2018 at 8:40 PM, pr9spk said:

Shenzhen or Shanghai!

Yes the flock mentality is an Asian thing I believe.