China slams 'irresponsible' United States over shelved security talks

[Joe Mcseismic]

Haha......always makes me laugh when Americans keep banging on about "Freedom". I've been there and it's one of the least free democracies in the world. So many stupid rules and regulations.

Can't hang your washing out where others can see it.

Can't have a beer in a public place without putting it in a paper bag.

Taxes it's own citizens that live and work in other countries.

Can't paint your house any colour that you like.

And on and on and on.

Western European countries plus a few others have far more freedom.

One could argue that Thailand has far more freedom than the USA due to the lax enforcement of rules.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Haha......always makes me laugh when Americans keep banging on about "Freedom". I've been there and it's one of the least free democracies in the world. So many stupid rules and regulations.

Can't hang your washing out where others can see it.

Can't have a beer in a public place without putting it in a paper bag.

Taxes it's own citizens that live and work in other countries.

Can't paint your house any colour that you like.

And on and on and on.

Western European countries plus a few others have far more freedom.

One could argue that Thailand has far more freedom than the USA due to the lax enforcement of rules.

What is much more worrying to me is the 'bomb the shit out of them' attitude.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Exactly what will armed conflict achieve?

What will ignoring trade dumping, human rights abuses, illegal lands aquisition, spying, escalating militarism, IP theft, etc. achieve?  More of the same I'm guessing.

[simple1]

56 minutes ago, Tailwagsdog said:

Freedom & democracy, Beijing today has all the hallmarks of the Third Reich in Berlin, they imprison people becos of race & relgion ( Urghirs), the Beijing dictatorship dissapears its opponents, they are invading neighbours, secret police knock on your door and take you away if you speak out, they hunt you down in foreign countries, they are building an army for war. So do you think if we just lay back while they become strong & agressive with no accountabilty our freedom & democracy will flourish? Don't be fooled just becos their dictator Xi isn't short with a moustache punching holes in the air, look at what is happening. Better to die on your feet fighting for freedom than on your knees pleading for your life.

OK off you go. Don't expect the allies to waste their people's lives anymore on the behalf of an idiocracy. Never mind the lessons of consequences from the US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan eh - MAGA!!!

Edited October 6, 2018 by simple1

[Nyezhov]

56 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Right, do as i say, don't do as i do.

If America is that great, it should lead as example.

Care to show me where the US has militarized international waters by building on reefs?

 

Care to show me when a US warship has deliberately tried to bump another ship just moseying along?

 

You dont like the US. thats fine. You would wish us gone. Thats fine too, if you start now, you can learn Mandarin. Keep in mind that if you arent Han, you will always be second class...if you are white..others are barely on the level of animals. 

 

Ask anyone who has lived and worked in China.

[Nyezhov]

53 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Haha......always makes me laugh when Americans keep banging on about "Freedom". I've been there and it's one of the least free democracies in the world. So many stupid rules and regulations.

Can't hang your washing out where others can see it.

Can't have a beer in a public place without putting it in a paper bag.

Taxes it's own citizens that live and work in other countries.

Can't paint your house any colour that you like.

And on and on and on.

Western European countries plus a few others have far more freedom.

One could argue that Thailand has far more freedom than the USA due to the lax enforcement of rules.

As to wash, beer, and paint, you confuse local regulations, enacted by States/cities/HOAs and members of a local community with the role of the Feds.

 

I could go on and on about lack of Freedom in Europe but its off topic and who cares.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Care to show me where the US has militarized international waters by building on reefs?

 

Care to show me when a US warship has deliberately tried to bump another ship just moseying along?

 

You dont like the US. thats fine. You would wish us gone. Thats fine too, if you start now, you can learn Mandarin. Keep in mind that if you arent Han, you will always be second class...if you are white..others are barely on the level of animals. 

 

Ask anyone who has lived and worked in China.

Ok, i was being naive of course, but i never said that i like or i don't like USA or China.

It's just that i find a bit embarrassing when they talk about freedom and democracy, while waging war.

In Europe we still remember the disasters of the world war, some are , perhaps naively, hopeful for the humans to get a step further in the civilisation path.

.. But it may be true that civilisation is just a layer of paint on the cavemen.

[Nyezhov]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

It's just that i find a bit embarrassing when they talk about freedom and democracy, while waging war.

Wars that we have been, on occasion, dragged into. South Korea is sure happy about us and war.

[Joe Mcseismic]

11 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

As to wash, beer, and paint, you confuse local regulations, enacted by States/cities/HOAs and members of a local community with the role of the Feds.

 

I could go on and on about lack of Freedom in Europe but its off topic and who cares.

Doesn't matter whether they're federal, State, or City. For the people that live there, it still curtails their Freedom. The US has more layers of rules than most other countries, all of which must be obeyed.

Notice you didn't mention the taxing of American's that don't live, or work in the US.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Joe Mcseismic

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Wars that we have been, on occasion, dragged into. South Korea is sure happy about us and war.

I'm not going to name the countries that aren't.

Of course it would be wrong to blame only the USA for the wars, there have been wars before the USA, maybe there will be wars forever, who knows ?

 

 

[Nyezhov]

17 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Doesn't matter whether they're federal, State, or City. For the people that live there, it still curtails their Freedom. The US has more layers of rules than most other countries, all of which must be obeyed.

Notice you didn't mention the taxing of American's that don't live, or work in the US.

Its off topic. Start a thread about freedom in Europe vis a vis the USA and I would be happy to respond.

[lannarebirth]

40 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

 

In Europe we still remember the disasters of the world war, some are , perhaps naively, hopeful for the humans to get a step further in the civilisation path.

.. But it may be true that civilisation is just a layer of paint on the cavemen.

 

Well, we're all hopeful of that aren't we? Personally, I wouldn't send any child of mine to fight for anything other than their own homeland and perhaps not even that. That said, war and bear markets, for that matter, arise when all the bad things we chose to ignore we can ignore no longer. Better we deal with these things as they come and an uneasy peace and respect between nations ensues, but it doesn't seem we're built that way. Not the capitalistic version of us anyway. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

Wars that we have been, on occasion, dragged into. South Korea is sure happy about us and war.

 

Vietnam wasn't too happy, neither were Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or even Grenada. The USA wasn't dragged into any of those wars and none of them turned out the best for the peoples in those countries.

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Got a link to The Economist article other than the one below?

 

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2018/09/20/america-and-china-are-in-a-proper-trade-war

That paints the US in a bad light.

 

and obstructing judge placement at the WTO.... hypocritical bullies over the pond.

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, farcanell said:

That paints the US in a bad light.

 

and obstructing judge placement at the WTO.... hypocritical bullies over the pond.

 

If the US got into a trade war with El Salvador because they "disappeared" any opposing political voices or that they incarcerated 10's of thousands of people without due process, would you feel the same? (Forget that the US supported that particular government in this hypothetical).

[puck2]

On 10/4/2018 at 5:37 PM, Benmart said:

Please provide your credentials as an international spokesperson. Otherwise, your comments are personal and don't reflect the "international" sentiment, whatever that may be.

Didn't you see or hear the people in the UN session laughing about the orange egomaniac in the White house? He is making the USA to become  the laughing stock of the world.

[baboon]

3 hours ago, Tailwagsdog said:

Freedom & democracy, Beijing today has all the hallmarks of the Third Reich in Berlin, they imprison people becos of race & relgion ( Urghirs), the Beijing dictatorship dissapears its opponents, they are invading neighbours, secret police knock on your door and take you away if you speak out, they hunt you down in foreign countries, they are building an army for war. So do you think if we just lay back while they become strong & agressive with no accountabilty our freedom & democracy will flourish? Don't be fooled just becos their dictator Xi isn't short with a moustache punching holes in the air, look at what is happening. Better to die on your feet fighting for freedom than on your knees pleading for your life.

You're being played, man! How many times in recent years have we heard this 'It's the Third Reich all over again' spiel? 'A menace to the security of the entire world which must be stopped at all costs and right now.'

Russia

Syria 

Iraq 

Iran

Afghanistan

D.P.R.K

China

 

How many times are people going to fall for it? And come we're still here, given this ravenous pack of wolves at our door?

[farcanell]

20 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

If the US got into a trade war with El Salvador because they "disappeared" any opposing political voices or that they incarcerated 10's of thousands of people without due process, would you feel the same? (Forget that the US supported that particular government in this hypothetical).

Great post.... a challenge on principles.... arguably wildly off topic, but interesting.

 

so more realistically... apartheid happened... I support the world reaction. That’s a standard. The response was world wide (sort of)

 

So having explained my benchmarking, I am opposed to unilateral actions by one country, which ignores international comment and holds itself above international agreements and treaties

 

that said... El Salvador is your example.... given the above comments, I would not support the actions of the US, if they acted unilaterally, without consultation and approval from its allies

 

i would not support any actions by the US, which should have allied opinion input, when that input is not welcomed and/ or ignored.

 

if y’all want to go it alone, which is what seems to be trumps isolationistic stance, your welcome to that... but your not welcome to drag your allies into a war, without their consent or consultation

 

now... if there was a process which my government to agreed to participate in, then yes, I would support it. (NOTE...if my government found that our PM acted beyond his authority in engaging, then that PM would be axed, and a new one would be elected. Checks and balances)

 

That all said, you can spin things yet.

do I believe China should have sovereignty over the sprattleys etc?....... no ******* way!.

 

 

[lannarebirth]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Great post.... a challenge on principles.... arguably wildly off topic, but interesting.

 

so more realistically... apartheid happened... I support the world reaction. That’s a standard. The response was world wide (sort of)

 

So having explained my benchmarking, I am opposed to unilateral actions by one country, which ignores international comment and holds itself above international agreements and treaties

 

that said... El Salvador is your example.... given the above comments, I would not support the actions of the US, if they acted unilaterally, without consultation and approval from its allies

 

i would not support any actions by the US, which should have allied opinion input, when that input is not welcomed and/ or ignored.

 

if y’all want to go it alone, which is what seems to be trumps isolationistic stance, your welcome to that... but your not welcome to drag your allies into a war, without their consent or consultation

 

now... if there was a process which my government to agreed to participate in, then yes, I would support it. (NOTE...if my government found that our PM acted beyond his authority in engaging, then that PM would be axed, and a new one would be elected. Checks and balances)

 

That all said, you can spin things yet.

do I believe China should have sovereignty over the sprattleys etc?....... no ******* way!.

 

 

 

Fair enough. BTW, apartheid was my next move, so, well played as they say.   (I still don't agree BTW)

Edited October 6, 2018 by lannarebirth

[farcanell]

4 hours ago, Tailwagsdog said:

Freedom & democracy, Beijing today has all the hallmarks of the Third Reich in Berlin, they imprison people becos of race & relgion ( Urghirs), the Beijing dictatorship dissapears its opponents, they are invading neighbours, secret police knock on your door and take you away if you speak out, they hunt you down in foreign countries, they are building an army for war. So do you think if we just lay back while they become strong & agressive with no accountabilty our freedom & democracy will flourish? Don't be fooled just becos their dictator Xi isn't short with a moustache punching holes in the air, look at what is happening. Better to die on your feet fighting for freedom than on your knees pleading for your life.

???????????? so.... while trump is fellating his fan base with strident anti  United Nations rants...refusing to submit in any way to international laws... withdrawing from international agreements and demanding that its sovereignty be respected... y’all won’t respect another countries sovereignty.... hypocrite

 

and.... China’s army.... are you scared? what, with all them nukes?

yep... you should be, given who holds the football ????????.... Dude... just stop buying Chinese products... easy.... label your citizens who do buy Chinese goods as traitors, if it’s such a security issue (per trump).... Then the trade imbalance will disappear.

 

And... your freedom and democracy  is already flourishing, according to other posters commenting on job growth and share prices, so starting a war to make it “flourish” more, seems to be what’s happening... war mongering for profit.

 

and whilst we all die, why hurry it along.... standing, sitting or kneeling, there is no better way of it.

 

but... if your talking about dying for honor, that’s different.... and doesn’t require a standing position, just that you be willing, like a suicide bomber (although per your preference, they usually go out standing on their feet... so common ground)

 

bottom line.... you know full well that your president is a liar... it’s proven... yet you choose to follow that liar, who is telling you that you will win a trade war with China, when its far more realistic to believe all countries that are reliant on US trade, will form new trade agreements to insulate themselves from trumps claim to punish those not supporting it. (or from future presidents possible similar actions, as y’all have set a precedent... ie, that the US cannot be trusted)

[zydeco]

On 10/6/2018 at 12:23 AM, Nyezhov said:

It was actually a pretty good read, at least at the time. Dont know if I would read it now cuz my tastes have changed. But I like books that are long, better value. Who wants to pay $9.99 for 250 pages, hell I can buy Gibbon for .99

You can go to Project Gutenberg, Project Gutenberg Canada, and Project Gutenberg Australia and download for free.  

[GOPinThailand]

China will not stop pushing until we push back. Send the 7th fleet back to Taipei and unload a few thousand marines there permanently. 

 

Stare them down and send them back to Peking. 

 

http://theasiadialogue.com/2017/12/12/would-china-go-to-war-over-u-s-navy-port-calls-in-taiwan/

Edited October 7, 2018 by GOPinThailand

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, zydeco said:

You can go to Project Gutenberg, Project Gutenberg Canada, and Project Gutenberg Australia and download for free.  

really its on there? Far out. As soon as I finish "The Gulag" by Anne Applebaum then. I used the Open Library at the Internet Archive.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, GOPinThailand said:

China will not stop pushing until we push back. Send the 7th fleet back to Taipei and unload a few thousand marines there permanently. 

 

Stare them down and send them back to Peking. 

 

http://theasiadialogue.com/2017/12/12/would-china-go-to-war-over-u-s-navy-port-calls-in-taiwan/

 

Let me try to understand you.

 

You believe that the US 7th Fleet and a few thousand Marines in Taipei can stare down 

quote "2,285,000 personnel, 0.18% of the country's population and that is only the Army active service guys. Don't forget the reserves who can be called up.

 

I simply Googled the Chinese forces to get these figures.

 

With a personnel strength of 255,000[2][11] servicemen and women, including 10,000 marines and 26,000 naval air force personnel, it is the second largest navy in the world in terms of tonnage, only behind the United States Navy, and has the largest number of major combatants of any navy.

 

The People's Liberation Army Air Force operates a large and varied fleet of some 3,010+ aircraft, of which around 2,100 are combat aircraft (fighter, attack and bombers).[3] According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, PLAAF combat pilots acquire an average of 100-150 flying hours per year.

 

In addition the Chinese forces are based in China and reinforced from there whereas the US forces gets its support from the USA which is a long way away.

 

I assume that you will volunteer to be in the front line forces that will bear the brunt of the first wave casualties. You will do that won't you?

 

I love the sound of a keyboard warrior flexing somebody elses muscles and letting others die for him. You sound like a Trump supporter.

 

PS If you had thought of going nuclear, beware, the Chinese have nuclear weapons too.

[Nyezhov]

47 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You believe that the US 7th Fleet and a few thousand Marines in Taipei can stare down 

quote "2,285,000 personnel, 0.18% of the country's population and that is only the Army active service guys. Don't forget the reserves who can be called up.

A recent analysis concluded that an Invasion of Taiwan would fail, I will try to find it for you, damn I should have saved the link...... ????

 

[baboon]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Let me try to understand you.

 

You believe that the US 7th Fleet and a few thousand Marines in Taipei can stare down 

quote "2,285,000 personnel, 0.18% of the country's population and that is only the Army active service guys. Don't forget the reserves who can be called up.

 

I simply Googled the Chinese forces to get these figures.

 

With a personnel strength of 255,000[2][11] servicemen and women, including 10,000 marines and 26,000 naval air force personnel, it is the second largest navy in the world in terms of tonnage, only behind the United States Navy, and has the largest number of major combatants of any navy.

Now you will have to contend with posters outraged at the temerity of another nation to be as strong: How dare they? What are they playing at? What do they need this hardware for?

Followed by 'Never mind about us and what we have. Focus on those others'....

[GOPinThailand]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Let me try to understand you.

 

You believe that the US 7th Fleet and a few thousand Marines in Taipei can stare down 

quote "2,285,000 personnel, 0.18% of the country's population and that is only the Army active service guys. Don't forget the reserves who can be called up.

 

I simply Googled the Chinese forces to get these figures.

 

With a personnel strength of 255,000[2][11] servicemen and women, including 10,000 marines and 26,000 naval air force personnel, it is the second largest navy in the world in terms of tonnage, only behind the United States Navy, and has the largest number of major combatants of any navy.

 

The People's Liberation Army Air Force operates a large and varied fleet of some 3,010+ aircraft, of which around 2,100 are combat aircraft (fighter, attack and bombers).[3] According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, PLAAF combat pilots acquire an average of 100-150 flying hours per year.

 

In addition the Chinese forces are based in China and reinforced from there whereas the US forces gets its support from the USA which is a long way away.

 

I assume that you will volunteer to be in the front line forces that will bear the brunt of the first wave casualties. You will do that won't you?

 

I love the sound of a keyboard warrior flexing somebody elses muscles and letting others die for him. You sound like a Trump supporter.

 

PS If you had thought of going nuclear, beware, the Chinese have nuclear weapons too.

 

Chinese navy would be at the bottom of the Taipei Straights in two days(probably much faster )

 

https://www.quora.com/If-the-US-went-to-war-with-China-who-would-win-and-why

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, GOPinThailand said:

 

Chinese navy would be at the bottom of the Taipei Straights in two days(probably much faster )

 

https://www.quora.com/If-the-US-went-to-war-with-China-who-would-win-and-why

And the author of this piece is:

Michael Reeves, Senior Management at Government of Western Australia (2008-present)

 

In fact, there's a lot of debate about how it would turn out. It ultimately depends on what forces the US is willing to commit to the battle.

[zydeco]

16 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

really its on there? Far out. As soon as I finish "The Gulag" by Anne Applebaum then. I used the Open Library at the Internet Archive.

https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/author/375

[Joe Mcseismic]

ALL surface ships of whatever nation would be sunk. They are obsolete. A combination of stealth submarines and fire-and-forget, over the horizon missiles.