Australia considers recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital

[webfact]

Australia considers recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital

 

FILE PHOTO: The new Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison attends a news conference in Canberra, Australia August 24, 2018. REUTERS/David Gray/File Photo

 

SYDNEY/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Australia will consider recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital and shifting its embassy there from Tel Aviv, Australia's Prime Minister said on Tuesday.

 

The status of Jerusalem is one of the thorniest obstacles to a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians. Israel regards all of the city, including the eastern sector that it annexed after the 1967 Middle East war, as its capital.

 

Last December, U.S. President Donald Trump reversed decades of U.S. policy by recognising Jerusalem, enraging the Palestinians and upsetting the Arab world and Western allies.

 

Australia was firm in its refusal to follow suit at the time, however Prime Minister Scott Morrison told reporters in parliament he was now "open-minded" about doing so, while not changing Australia's policy of support for a Palestinian state.

 

"The orthodoxy that's driven this debate which says issues like considering the question of the capital are taboo. I think we have to challenge that," Morrison said.

 

"The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's.

 

"No decision has been made in regarding the recognition of a capital or the movement of an embassy ... but at the same time, what we are simply doing is being open to that suggestion."

 

The U.S. Embassy became the only foreign embassy in Jerusalem in May, and Guatemala and Paraguay followed Washington's lead days later and also moved their embassies, although Paraguay returned its mission to Tel Aviv last month. Israel closed its embassy in Asuncion in response.

 

The Palestinians, with broad international backing, want East Jerusalem as the capital of a future state that they hope to establish in the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Peace talks between the parties broke down in 2014.

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has attempted to persuade other countries to move their embassies to Jerusalem.

 

Sharma, who was ambassador to Israel between 2013 and 2017, is on Saturday standing as a candidate for Morrison's ruling Liberal Party in a crucial by-election in Sydney.

 

Morrison also said Australia would review its support for the Iran nuclear deal, under which sanctions were lifted in return for restraints on its nuclear programme "to determine whether our current policy settings remain fit for purpose".

 

Trump decided in May to abandon the pact and to restore economic sanctions on Iran, including those that seek to force the OPEC member's major oil customers to stop buying Iranian crude.

 

(Reporting by Tom Westbrook and Wayne Cole in SYDNEY and Ori Lewis in JERUSALEM; Editing by Kevin Liffey and James Dalgleish)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-16

[simple1]

OP omitted to mention Sharma's electorate for voting this weekend are 13% Jewish.

[ezzra]

 That'll be a huge poke in the eyes of many, many anti semite and Israel haters not to mention Palestinian supporters, and as for the palestinians themselves, Abbas surly will blow a fuse and run to the UN and the Hague to lodge some sort of complaints...

[dexterm]

OP..
""The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's."

 

...good idea. If Australia also announces its intention to open an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem.

 

So why the urgency for Aussie PM to announce this now?

 

"Mr Morrison denied he was discussing the matter because the Wentworth by-election was looming, and said he had not had any request to consider moving the embassy from the United States.

Nearly 13 per cent of voters in Wentworth are Jewish, and the Government needs to win the seat to retain its one-seat majority in the Lower House."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-16/australia-could-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/10379602

 

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[mfd101]

58 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

It's called democracy. Every issue requires a slightly different coalition so the matter can be moved forward. Politicians - and even in autocracies - spend 90% of their time forming & reforming coalitions for issues of the day - immigration, abortion, industrial relations, road transport and on and on and on.

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

OP..
""The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's."

 

...good idea. If Australia also announces its intention to open an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem.

 

So why the urgency for Aussie PM to announce this now?

 

"Mr Morrison denied he was discussing the matter because the Wentworth by-election was looming, and said he had not had any request to consider moving the embassy from the United States.

Nearly 13 per cent of voters in Wentworth are Jewish, and the Government needs to win the seat to retain its one-seat majority in the Lower House."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-16/australia-could-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/10379602

 

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

Sure, every time some head of state doing something that is against the bigoted and slanted views mainstream, some get on their hind legs screaming empty slogans, or mabe Australia is one of the few countries that don't really worry what the Arab/Muslim world will say muchless what the palestinian will think, either way, trust the palestinas to continue with the never ending and futile effort to bring israel down...

[dexterm]

19 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

It's called democracy. Every issue requires a slightly different coalition so the matter can be moved forward. Politicians - and even in autocracies - spend 90% of their time forming & reforming coalitions for issues of the day - immigration, abortion, industrial relations, road transport and on and on and on.

I understand that in any government both behind the scenes and overt horse trading is conducted in order to hold onto power.

 

It is Morrison's dishonesty in stating that this announcement is completely unrelated to the upcoming by election that I find objectionable.

 

In that voting I believe is compulsory in Australia, and there must be a lot of smart people in one of the wealthiest electorates in Australia, I hope voters can see through his cynical move.

[dexterm]

It's the playing politics with people's lives 9,000 miles away from Australia just to win a few local votes that I find distasteful.

 

And his plans are not even certain..just a dog whistle.

OP...""No decision has been made in regarding the recognition of a capital or the movement of an embassy ... but at the same time, what we are simply doing is being open to that suggestion."

 

Even other influential members in his own party and all the opposition parties who will probably win the next full Australian election have no intention of moving the embassy.

 

I hope this cheap stunt backfires on him.

[chainarong]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

OP..
""The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's."

 

...good idea. If Australia also announces its intention to open an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem.

 

So why the urgency for Aussie PM to announce this now?

 

"Mr Morrison denied he was discussing the matter because the Wentworth by-election was looming, and said he had not had any request to consider moving the embassy from the United States.

Nearly 13 per cent of voters in Wentworth are Jewish, and the Government needs to win the seat to retain its one-seat majority in the Lower House."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-16/australia-could-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/10379602

 

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

The urgency is Morrison needs all the help he can get, he holds power in the Lower house by one vote that is up for crabs this weekend, early indications suggest an independent will win,  former treasurers becoming leaders have not got a good survival rate in OZ.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

 That'll be a huge poke in the eyes of many, many anti semite and Israel haters not to mention Palestinian supporters, and as for the palestinians themselves, Abbas surly will blow a fuse and run to the UN and the Hague to lodge some sort of complaints...

 

And a "poke in the eye" is good, because...?

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

OP..
""The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's."

 

...good idea. If Australia also announces its intention to open an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem.

 

So why the urgency for Aussie PM to announce this now?

 

"Mr Morrison denied he was discussing the matter because the Wentworth by-election was looming, and said he had not had any request to consider moving the embassy from the United States.

Nearly 13 per cent of voters in Wentworth are Jewish, and the Government needs to win the seat to retain its one-seat majority in the Lower House."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-16/australia-could-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/10379602

 

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

 

The contrived condition you apply is bogus. There's not such "also" requirement, nor any clear indication that it would promote anything. That's without getting into the logistics or actual political situation - things which you're not overly concerned on most rants.

 

And hey, stop the presses, poster discovered politicians aren't honest.

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, dexterm said:

I understand that in any government both behind the scenes and overt horse trading is conducted in order to hold onto power.

 

It is Morrison's dishonesty in stating that this announcement is completely unrelated to the upcoming by election that I find objectionable.

 

In that voting I believe is compulsory in Australia, and there must be a lot of smart people in one of the wealthiest electorates in Australia, I hope voters can see through his cynical move.

 

So such political maneuvers are real? Only asking because you routinely deny, ignore and reject such when it comes to Palestinian politics. The "clinging to power" bit is especially ingeniousness in this context, if not unexpected.

 

Considering the number of times you've declared Palestinian moves to be unrelated to their own domestic political issues, would "dishonest" apply? Do you find said comments "objectionable" as well? Thought so.

 

 

 

Their's apparently, is a system based solely on principals. N

[car720]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

OP..
""The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's."

 

...good idea. If Australia also announces its intention to open an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem.

 

So why the urgency for Aussie PM to announce this now?

 

"Mr Morrison denied he was discussing the matter because the Wentworth by-election was looming, and said he had not had any request to consider moving the embassy from the United States.

Nearly 13 per cent of voters in Wentworth are Jewish, and the Government needs to win the seat to retain its one-seat majority in the Lower House."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-16/australia-could-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/10379602

 

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

When are we going to get leaders who don't dance to the American tune and we all know who plays their song.  As an Aussie I believe we should not follow along like a dog on a leash because that is what we are.

[roobaa01]

5 hours ago, simple1 said:

OP omitted to mention Sharma's electorate for voting this weekend are 13% Jewish.

is there anything wrong about being jewish ??

polite is australian citizens of jewish origin or not ??

 

now reality cuts in as more and more states will recognise jerusalem as the only capital of israel.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[roobaa01]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

OP..
""The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's."

 

...good idea. If Australia also announces its intention to open an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem.

 

So why the urgency for Aussie PM to announce this now?

 

"Mr Morrison denied he was discussing the matter because the Wentworth by-election was looming, and said he had not had any request to consider moving the embassy from the United States.

Nearly 13 per cent of voters in Wentworth are Jewish, and the Government needs to win the seat to retain its one-seat majority in the Lower House."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-16/australia-could-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/10379602

 

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

for what palestine is and will never be a recognized state the capital east jerusalem as jerusalem belongs to israel only.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[simple1]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

Sure, every time some head of state doing something that is against the bigoted and slanted views mainstream, some get on their hind legs screaming empty slogans, or mabe Australia is one of the few countries that don't really worry what the Arab/Muslim world will say muchless what the palestinian will think, either way, trust the palestinas to continue with the never ending and futile effort to bring israel down...

Think you're Australian (?) so some odd claims. Oz politicians care very much what Muslims, as well as the Jewish community, have to say. The Palestinian issue has been a high profile matter for many years in Oz. Morrison supports the Two State Solution, whether Oz will actually move it's embassy in the relatively near future is not decided. IMO to announce the policy review at this moment in time is just the usual cynical move (could say vote buying) to garner support for Morrison's candidate due to the large Jewish constituency.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

OP..
""The whole point of a two-state solution is two nations recognised living side by side," he added, saying he was open to the suggestion from Dave Sharma, Australia's former ambassador to Israel, that Australia support West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and East Jerusalem as Palestine's."

 

...good idea. If Australia also announces its intention to open an embassy for Palestine in East Jerusalem.

 

So why the urgency for Aussie PM to announce this now?

 

"Mr Morrison denied he was discussing the matter because the Wentworth by-election was looming, and said he had not had any request to consider moving the embassy from the United States.

Nearly 13 per cent of voters in Wentworth are Jewish, and the Government needs to win the seat to retain its one-seat majority in the Lower House."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-16/australia-could-move-embassy-to-jerusalem/10379602

 

Got it. Just another dishonest politician.

 

Yep. Political expediency in trying to get and keep in power and in control trumps (no pun intended) all other considerations.

 

And it's a brownie point for the Aussies as they want to overtake the UK as America's number 1 poodle.

 

Always respected the Aussies I know for their open, direct, common sense laid back attitudes. But they're now "blessed' with the same politician types as the rest of us!

[dexterm]

In that there are 600,000 Muslims in Australia, who regard Jerusalem as one of their holiest cities, for the Aussie PM needlessly to announce at this moment that he may be following Trump's lead will not sit well nationwide with those of voting age, and voting is compulsory downunder.

 

It is an even more dopey move for Morrison when the by election he is fighting is regarded as already one of the safest seats in the country for his party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_of_Wentworth

He need not cynically cosy up to some of his Jewish voters to win the seat, unless all he hopes is to improve his numbers just to prove what a great new leader he is.

 

In fact most of those Wentworth Jewish voters are doing very nicely where they are thank you in one of Australia's wealthiest electorates, are smart enough to have voted with their feet to remain in a peaceful real democratic country, and may actually not subscribe to Zionism, or wish Australia to become embroiled in controversial Middle East politics.

 

Many Aussies I know are also very independently minded and concerned about fair play. With the publicity this announcement generates it may backfire on Morrison's bid to follow my leader Trump.

[Ron19]

Off topic deflections and flame posts have been removed.

[car720]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yep. Political expediency in trying to get and keep in power and in control trumps (no pun intended) all other considerations.

 

And it's a brownie point for the Aussies as they want to overtake the UK as America's number 1 poodle.

 

Always respected the Aussies I know for their open, direct, common sense laid back attitudes. But they're now "blessed' with the same politician types as the rest of us!

It's a sign of the times.  When I was young all my mates were staunch (a word no longer heard) but today everyone is 'expeditiously politically correct'.  

[dexterm]

The potential consequences of Morrison's dopey move just to win a handful of votes in a byelection have begun...

 

"Representatives from 13 Middle Eastern and North African embassies in Australia have condemned Scott Morrison’s signal that the Australian embassy could be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, declaring it a “fatal mistake” that could lead to a breakdown in economic relations with Arab and Muslim nations.

There have been reports that Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim country and one of Australia’s most important neighbours, is considering suspending its free trade agreement with Canberra as a consequence of Tuesday’s events."

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/16/moving-australias-embassy-to-jerusalem-a-fatal-mistake-middle-eastern-envoys-warn

 

For a nation like Australia that relies on trade, it's a pretty dumb move needlessly to upset your closest neighbors and other trading partners, and for what net benefit to Australia 9,000 miles away from these very sensistive events? He's clearly unfit to lead, putting his ambitions in retaining power over Australia's natonal interests.

 

Australia's closest ally, New Zealand, has condemned Morrison's announcement too.

 

And his opponents now look even more certain to win next year's full election after this own goal. 

"the Labor opposition's Senate leader, Penny Wong, said Mr Morrison was playing "dangerous and deceitful word games with Australian foreign policy".

"[Scott Morrison] is prepared to say anything if he thinks it will win him a few more votes - even at the cost of Australia's national interest," she said."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-45871402

[Jingthing]

Well I didn't support the "trump" move but he did it and the world didn't blow up. I really don't see what the big deal is now if other nations follow. It's extremely difficult to negotiate a two state solution either way. Whether embassies are in Jerusalem or not.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dexterm]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well I didn't support the "trump" move but he did it and the world didn't blow up. I really don't see what the big deal is now if other nations follow. It's extremely difficult to negotiate a two state solution either way. Whether embassies are in Jerusalem or not. 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

>>I really don't see what the big deal is now if other nations follow. It's extremely difficult to negotiate a two state solution either way. Whether embassies are in Jerusalem or not. 

 

It's not that simple.

 

The problem is what is meant by the wording: move your embassy to Jerusalem. What is others' perception of that?

 

1. For Netanyahu it is unequivocal: move your embassy to the eternally Jewish undivided city of Jerusalem. 

 

2. Trump left it vague. Repeatedly stating he has "taken Jerusalem off the negotiating table" implying Netanyahu's interpretation #1, but at the same time saying it is still up for final status agreement with a possible Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem.

 

3. Morrison the Aussie PM more explicitly talked about 2 capitals in West and East Jerusalem, but hoping the dog whistle of  Netanyahu's undivided Jewish capital is getting through to the Jewish voters in his byelection.
... a very risky and unnecessary strategy.

 

What's in it for Australia?: not much...a thanks tweet from Trump. Netanyahu has already tweeted his appreciation assuming #1.

 

What's the risk? A trade boycott of Australia by Indonesia and other trading partners. USA can afford to brush such threats aside. Australia cannot. That's why it is a big deal for Australia.

 

And also why it makes a two state solution more difficult is if the parties assume a final status issue Jerusalem as already been pre-emptively decided to the detriment of one side of the negotiating parties, then its not worth entering into serious peace negotiations, if the other side and the so called honest brokers have already decided the outcome.

[Kiwiken]

I would doubt very much whether New Zealand would follow suit and do as Australia . i would hope in the event that such a move was muted that a New Zealand Government would allow the New Zealand Public to say yay or nay and not be pressured by minorities either way

[simple1]

4 hours ago, dexterm said:

>>I really don't see what the big deal is now if other nations follow. It's extremely difficult to negotiate a two state solution either way. Whether embassies are in Jerusalem or not. 

 

It's not that simple.

 

The problem is what is meant by the wording: move your embassy to Jerusalem. What is others' perception of that?

 

1. For Netanyahu it is unequivocal: move your embassy to the eternally Jewish undivided city of Jerusalem. 

 

2. Trump left it vague. Repeatedly stating he has "taken Jerusalem off the negotiating table" implying Netanyahu's interpretation #1, but at the same time saying it is still up for final status agreement with a possible Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem.

 

3. Morrison the Aussie PM more explicitly talked about 2 capitals in West and East Jerusalem, but hoping the dog whistle of  Netanyahu's undivided Jewish capital is getting through to the Jewish voters in his byelection.
... a very risky and unnecessary strategy.

 

What's in it for Australia?: not much...a thanks tweet from Trump. Netanyahu has already tweeted his appreciation assuming #1.

 

What's the risk? A trade boycott of Australia by Indonesia and other trading partners. USA can afford to brush such threats aside. Australia cannot. That's why it is a big deal for Australia.

 

And also why it makes a two state solution more difficult is if the parties assume a final status issue Jerusalem as already been pre-emptively decided to the detriment of one side of the negotiating parties, then its not worth entering into serious peace negotiations, if the other side and the so called honest brokers have already decided the outcome.

Personally I doubt Indonesia or indeed most Muslim majority countries will put in-place a trade embargo on Oz. e.g. Indonesia is very reliant on Australian beef

[Aussie999]

20 hours ago, ezzra said:

Sure, every time some head of state doing something that is against the bigoted and slanted views mainstream, some get on their hind legs screaming empty slogans, or mabe Australia is one of the few countries that don't really worry what the Arab/Muslim world will say muchless what the palestinian will think, either way, trust the palestinas to continue with the never ending and futile effort to bring israel down...

PM Morrison is trying to win an election, nothing else, in fact he isn't committing to moving the embassy, only to "discuss" it, if that's the case he could just as easily left the "discussion" until after the Wentworth election and not have had as much to defend. Nah, he's just a lying piece of doggy do.

[Skeptic7]

Still the capital whether Oz recognize it or not. 

[Jingthing]

Still the capital whether Oz recognize it or not. 

It is indeed because Israel is a sovereign nation and sovereign nations have the right to determine where their capitals are. But in the case of Jerusalem it still remains a political hot falafel whether foreign embassies locate there.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

I somehow doubt you could substantiate that all Muslim in Australia feel as hotly about it as you do, or that they are even politically active and act in a well-coordinated manner. Just the usual co-opting thing you do on many related topics.

 

The standing nonsense about relation between where Jews reside and their position on Zionism is the usual drivel. People choose to live wherever based on a whole lot of reasons, without this necessarily having much to do with their ideological and political views. A point that ought to be rather obvious when posting on a forum such as this.