UK Embassy Letters - The Way Forward.

[Moonlover]

40 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Go on then as we are speculating, what about the 3 months of the year that I have traveled outside Thailand ?

Correction. You're speculating, not me. I'm just the messenger, so to speak.

 

And as all the issues you raise are personal to your situation, how can you possibly expect me to have the answers.

 

But don't worry, as Norman V Peale said: ''Every problem has in it the seeds of its own solution. If you don't have any problems, you don't get any seeds''.

 

It will sort.

 

ML

[partington]

On 10/27/2018 at 6:13 AM, dick dasterdly said:

"If a pension provider/bank can print it, so can anyone else with a printer."

 

Have to disagree with the part I've emboldened, as I certainly couldn't and suspect it is a minority that could!

 

But I agree with your final para. "Its a moot point, if some is maybe doing fake documents in the current system, they would probably do it in any new system."

You hardly need to do fake documents, as I found the British Embassy's understanding and validation of documents you send them is rather sketchy.

 

As part of income verification a few years ago I used income from a flat I was renting out in London. The proofs were original rent invoices from the agents managing the property on their headed notepaper, showing gross rent coming in, their management fees deducted and the net amount paid to me.  This was from a well known chain of estate agents,  let's call them Smithtons, and headed "Rent Statement".

 

The income letter I got back said in part  "Mr **** has shown us statements from Smithtons Bank, stating he receives an income of £XY per year" !

 

I think they get the Thai office assistant to do it...

 

 

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Correction. You're speculating, not me. I'm just the messenger, so to speak.

 

And as all the issues you raise are personal to your situation, how can you possibly expect me to have the answers.

 

But don't worry, as Norman V Peale said: ''Every problem has in it the seeds of its own solution. If you don't have any problems, you don't get any seeds''.

 

It will sort.

 

ML

 

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Correction. You're speculating, not me. I'm just the messenger, so to speak.

 

And as all the issues you raise are personal to your situation, how can you possibly expect me to have the answers.

 

But don't worry, as Norman V Peale said: ''Every problem has in it the seeds of its own solution. If you don't have any problems, you don't get any seeds''.

 

It will sort.

 

ML

 

 

Sorry ML, the question wasn't directed at you, it was more of a forum-wide poser.................... a situation to ponder because, although I cited personal circumstances, I am not the only one similarly affected.

[Moonlover]

23 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

Sorry ML, the question wasn't directed at you, it was more of a forum-wide poser.................... a situation to ponder because, although I cited personal circumstances, I am not the only one similarly affected.

Ok thanks. No problem.

 

ML

[White Tiger]

On 10/29/2018 at 7:04 PM, Moonlover said:

Ok. So do you all remember why I started this thread last week? It was about the alternative to incomes letters and how will we be able to demonstrate that we have sufficient income qualify for an extension.

 

I wonder how many of you did, in fact address this issue with the British Embassy. Well I did and here, in part, is the most salient part of their reply.

 

''Although the pension letter is widely accepted as proof of income for foreigners to secure an extension of stay, it is an informal agreement and is not required under Thai law.  The Thai authorities have confirmed they require income to be verified and the Thai authorities can do this by sighting income in a Thai bank account.

 

We continue to work with Thai Immigration and have requested their assistance to update and advise local  Immigration departments throughout  the country of the information.

 

Regards Sarah Peth Deputy Consul & Head of Operations''

 

So that as far as the embassy is concerned, is the way forward. This is what I expected and what I have already geared up for. For those, like me, who have sufficient pension incomes, this should present no problems.

 

And as far as I'm concerned, it's panic over. I'm not due to renew until next August, so I'm sure even sleepy Sakon Nakhon will have got to hear of this by then.

 

ML

 

 

So the embassy didn't offer any suggestions on how the Thai authorities can verify the income if the income is paid into a UK bank account. Probably because that's an example of why immigration ask for the embassy letter.  Not everyone has it paid directly into a Thai bank account, or transfers it to a Thai bank account. But in my experience, even when it is paid into a Thai account, or you transfer it yourself to a Thai account, it appears immigration are not satisfied unless they see an embassy letter.

 

I've posted before, in one of the threads about the income letter, that I tried to show my income to immigration years ago by showing Thai bank accounts with the required income. I've also shown them UK bank statements showing the required income. Both offers were declined and immigration told me I must have a letter from my embassy to show income - they would accept nothing else. At that time my UK income comprised rental income from property in the UK plus pension income and some investment income.  My UK income exceeded 40k THB per month after conversion into THB. My Thai bank account showed deposits every month comprised of a Thai teacher's salary plus a small transfer from UK every month - to make up the 40k per month. (I use the 40k income threshold as my wife is Thai and I'm on the Non-imm O thai spouse visa). Anyway, none of the bank statements were acceptable to Thai immigration. They wanted to see an embassy letter stating an amount of GBP and sent me packing. That was a few years ago. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by White Tiger

[Mike Teavee]

7 hours ago, White Tiger said:

They wanted to see an embassy letter stating an amount of GBP and sent me packing. That was a few years ago.

Hopefully from 1st January the "Rules" will have changed and Thai Immigration will accept proof of deposit as proof of income, at least for British/US Citizens who's Embassies have stopped issuing the letters.

 

Ass-u-me-ing they will accept proof of deposits as proof of income, it's yet to be advised:-

• How many months proof they want
• Whether the deposits need to come from overseas or can come from Rental, Dividends etc... income in Thailand
• Whether they'll accept proof from an overseas bank 

 

 

If they align it with the 800/400K proof, they logically (use the word lightly we are talking government agencies here) would want to see:-

• 2 months income coming from overseas for a conversion (Tourist Visa to Non-O etc..)
• 2 months any income on 1st Extension application 
• 3 months any income on subsequent Extension applications

 

However, my best guess is they will ask for 3 months income coming from overseas (may accept in-country income backed up with a Thai Tax return) in all circumstances

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

However, my best guess is they will ask for 3 months income coming from overseas (may accept in-country income backed up with a Thai Tax return) in all circumstances

Why would someone have to transfer funds on a monthly basis to a Thai Bank- when I can go to a Thai ATM  or go into a Thai Bank with my ATM cards and get  funds up to my limit each day or whenever I need money.  The ATM slips show the money came from abroad- my Foreign ATM Card number is embossed on the slip itself with a balance.  Best proof there is- and real time. 

I suppose I could take  out 65K each month  and then redeposit the money in a Thai bank and then use a Thai ATM card to get money out again  However-makes no sense and a complete waste of time and effort.  

[Mike Teavee]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Why would someone have to transfer funds on a monthly basis to a Thai Bank- when I can go to a Thai ATM  or go into a Thai Bank with my ATM cards and get  funds up to my limit each day or whenever I need money.  The ATM slips show the money came from abroad- my Foreign ATM Card number is embossed on the slip itself with a balance.  Best proof there is- and real time. 

I suppose I could take  out 65K each month  and then redeposit the money in a Thai bank and then use a Thai ATM card to get money out again  However-makes no sense and a complete waste of time and effort.  

1. We're talking about "Proof" of income your ATM slips would only show how much you withdrew & the remaining balance, besides can you really see Thai Immigration wanting to wade through (presumably) 3 months of ATM slips?
2. I don't believe your plan of taking it out of your US Bank & depositing it in your Thai Bank will work as I think they'll want to see funds being transferred in from overseas (I know there are legitimate ways of evening money in Thailand but I personally don't think they'll accept these or at best will want to see a Tax Return)

 

(IMHO) The easiest thing for Thai Immigration to do is to only accept the 800/400K in the bank route, the next easiest thing is for them to accept "Evidence" of Income by seeing funds going into a Thai Bank account, once you get beyond that then (IMHO) you introduce too many variables & make it too complicated for them to do.

 

FWIW I also think there will be further tightening up (i.e. they'll want to see the source of the funds & will limit what they will accept as is already being reported in Phuket) if they did accept any deposits then start to suspect people were gaming the system by cycling the funds.

 

 

All pure speculation on my part, but if I were drafting the rules, I know I would want to make it as simple as possible.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

All pure speculation on my part, but if I was drafting up the rules for this I know I would want to make it as simple as possible.

You may be right-  but in the past when I was asked for  proof of income- when I had the letter- I actually showed my  Government Pension letter- ATM cards and a foreign bank statement which matched the letters- About  4 pages total- easy to read and accepted.  Much better than having to pay each month for a transfer of funds from my US bank.   Time will tell- I will still present the 'evidence' until they tell me no.

[White Tiger]

11 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Hopefully from 1st January the "Rules" will have changed and Thai Immigration will accept proof of deposit as proof of income, at least for British/US Citizens who's Embassies have stopped issuing the letters.

 

Ass-u-me-ing they will accept proof of deposits as proof of income, it's yet to be advised:-

• How many months proof they want
• Whether the deposits need to come from overseas or can come from Rental, Dividends etc... income in Thailand
• Whether they'll accept proof from an overseas bank 

 

 

If they align it with the 800/400K proof, they logically (use the word lightly we are talking government agencies here) would want to see:-

• 2 months income coming from overseas for a conversion (Tourist Visa to Non-O etc..)
• 2 months any income on 1st Extension application 
• 3 months any income on subsequent Extension applications

 

However, my best guess is they will ask for 3 months income coming from overseas (may accept in-country income backed up with a Thai Tax return) in all circumstances

 

 

There has been no public announcement by the Thai authorities of any change in their working practices or policies. Nor do I expect there to be or think there will be. I hope there is but I can't see it happening.

 

I admire your optimism but the reality is that those who rely on the Embassy letter are up the creek without a paddle. Savannakhet may start to get much busier.