UK Embassy Letters - The Way Forward.

[Moonlover]

I have started a new thread on this issue, because I believe that the voices of those directly affected by this issue are being lost amongst the irrelevant exchanges now taking place on the early threads.

 

I’m sure that many of you will have already contacted the embassy and received the same standard reply from Sarah Reth, which tells us nothing new. It is simply a repeat of what has gone before,

 

I do not believe that we have any hope of persuading the embassy to recant on this issue. Their mind is firmly made up. What we need to have them focus on instead is whether it is really and honestly correct that Thai immigration have confirmed that they will, henceforth accept applications based on income without the embassy letter.

 

That is, in my opinion is what we need to focus on and have the embassy focus on. We, as individuals do not have the contacts, or the clout to be able to make representations to Thai immigration at a senior level. Only the embassy is able to do that. They have the contacts, the status and the diplomatic skills to convey this message on our behalf.

 

I urge everyone who is affected by this decision to email the embassy and ask, in your own words, ‘Have the Thai immigration categorically confirmed that they will, henceforth accept applications without the embassy letter’.

 

And please do follow the instructions at the bottom of the auto reply and resend your message as instructed. The email address to use is:

[email protected]

 

Thank you all for your attention. Have a great weekend.

 

ML

Edited October 19, 2018 by Moonlover

[noise]

If Immigration is insisting upon 3 months proof of income in addition to the letter (for those who will still get it before the "stop" is implemented), isn't the Embassy letter redundant, just repeating what is on your proof?

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, noise said:

If Immigration is insisting upon 3 months proof of income in addition to the letter (for those who will still get it before the "stop" is implemented), isn't the Embassy letter redundant, just repeating what is on your proof?

I thought it was 12 month proof of income?

[Expattaff1308]

I quite agree Moonlover, however Immigration are sticking to the old format ie Embassy Letter and that has been told to the many who have been to their Imm offices and enquired. I have written a number of times to Sarah Reth pointing out the misinformation in regard to showing income thro Bank Statements and she has never addressed it in her replies. I have also urged her to continue negotiations with the Thai authorities to find a solution to this problem as by doing what they did they removed 2 avenues of proof from us the Income and the combination method. She again has neither confirmed or denied the BE are doing this.

I would be quite happy to show statements or even a Bank letter stating that over the last 12 mths Mr Expat has deposited 400/800k which equates to a monthly income into his Thai account of 40/65k but until this is acceptable to Immigration we remain up the creek without a paddle.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, vogie said:

I thought it was 12 month proof of income?

You only have to prove your income on the date of application.

How would somebody getting their first extension prove 12 months of income if they had just started their pension or whatever.

Three months is closer to correct.

[vogie]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You only have to prove your income on the date of application.

How would somebody getting their first extension prove 12 months of income if they had just started their pension or whatever.

Three months is closer to correct.

Sorry, I didn't realise that the op was talking about his first application.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Sorry, I didn't realise that the op was talking about his first application.

I was not referring to the OP. Just giving an example as to why 12 months of proof is not required.

[Esso49]

Already done that and asked for a transcript of all discussions, emails on this subject between BE and Thai immigration.  Requested under the FOI act and the FCO have replied advising they will respond within 20 days. 15 days remaining.  Of course that's working days so will post relevant info once received.

 

Only once that has been disclosed will we know the truth regarding discussions between these 2 parties on the matter,

 

I hope this thread remains as your intent for those who rely upon certificate of income letters and not side tracked by others again

Edited October 20, 2018 by Esso49

[tgeezer]

The country is on its uppers, I should think that the embassy would want to continue writing letters if only to secure their continued employment.


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[Just Weird]

31 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

The country is on its uppers, I should think that the embassy would want to continue writing letters if only to secure their continued employment.

The Embassy has never said that it does not want to issue the letters neither is there any indication that income letters and the financial condition of the UK have any connection with each other.  

[Thaidream]

3 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

uite agree Moonlover, however Immigration are sticking to the old format ie Embassy Letter and that has been told to the many who have been to their Imm offices and enquired. I have written a number of times to Sarah Reth pointing out the misinformation in regard to showing income thro Bank Statements and she has never addressed it in her replies. I have also urged her to continue negotiations with the Thai authorities to find a solution to this problem as by doing what they did they removed 2 avenues of proof from us the Income and the combination method. She again has neither confirmed or denied the BE are doing this.

I would be quite happy to show statements or even a Bank letter stating that over the last 12 mths Mr Expat has deposited 400/800k which equates to a monthly income into his Thai account of 40/65k but until this is acceptable to Immigration we remain up the creek without a paddle.

Agree completely- The results of the negotiation between BE and Thai Imm should be that Thai Imm accepts the following methods to prove Income of 65K/40K

 

1.  Letters from Pension provider or other provider showing amount deposited each month

2.  Foreign Bank Statement showing same amounts as above direct deposited to an account- showing Amount , date, and originator- Amounts should match the letters in 1 (If Bank shows  location of debits as Thailand- this page included)

3.  If Transfer to a Thai Bank- show  Thai Bank statement/  If  not transferred to Thai Bank- show foreign debit cards used to access funds and/or Thai ATM slips representing a few months withdrawals

4.  If depositing 65K/40K per month into a Thai Bank by cash- show Thai bank book as proof.

 

If the BE can guarantee Thai Imm will accept the above- there should be no issue  with NO  Embassy Letter and  they (BE) should issue a letter in Thai/English  provided to each citizen - indicating No BE Letter can be issued but negotiation between BE and Thai Imm has resulted in Thai Imm accepting the following forms of proving income  etc, etc. signed by the  ranking BE official.  

 

The fact is that Thai Imm when presented with an Embassy Letter has accepted the above as added proof of income.

 

If BE does nothing except stop the letter- I am afraid that the result will be rather chaotic or Thai Imm will will hold the applicant responsible for not having the letter.

[Moonlover]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Sorry, I didn't realise that the op was talking about his first application.

 

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I was not referring to the OP. Just giving an example as to why 12 months of proof is not required.

For your information Vogie, I have just completed my 5th extension and my 3rd using marriage as the reason.

 

I have always used income as my financial support and would have no difficulty in providing evidence of that income to immigration, where they in a position to accept it. But I am not in a position to switch to the 'capital in the Bank' method.

 

I'm sure that I am not the only one in this position hence the reason I have opened this particular thread.

 

Thank you for showing your interest.

 

ML

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Moonlover said:

 

For your information Vogie, I have just completed my 5th extension and my 3rd using marriage as the reason.

 

I have always used income as my financial support and would have no difficulty in providing evidence of that income to immigration, where they in a position to accept it. But I am not in a position to switch to the 'capital in the Bank' method.

 

I'm sure that I am not the only one in this position hence the reason I have opened this particular thread.

 

Thank you for showing your interest.

 

ML

I always use the income method too as my proof of income too and it may be difficult for me next year as well. Have you got your wires crossed, I am in totally agreement with you, I merely stated that I thought you had to show 12 months of earnings, is this not the case?

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

or your information Vogie, I have just completed my 5th extension and my 3rd using marriage as the reason.

 

I have always used income as my financial support and would have no difficulty in providing evidence of that income to immigration, where they in a position to accept it. But I am not in a position to switch to the 'capital in the Bank' method.

 

I'm sure that I am not the only one in this position hence the reason I have opened this particular thread.

 

Thank you for showing your interest.

Although not British- I fully support those British citizens and their effort to find a positive solution > Many people of all nationalities use the  monthly income route for a variety of reasons and the vast majority have been honest and above board.

[Kadilo]

 

 

“I hope this thread remains as your intent for those who rely upon certificate of income letters and not side tracked by others again”

 

That will only be the case if it is regularly moderated and everyone reports non related posts.

Hopefully this one will stay on subject.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

[Kadilo]

For me, I am not currently living in Thailand but was told by Immigration to go the Retirement Visa route as I was visiting the country too often and needed a more permanent solution to a 30 day VE, and then TV. 

 

I got my O-A from London and had best part of 2 years, now my first extension is due March next year. I can get the Income Statement for this time but going forwards would need to use a monthly Income Method so, like many, am keen for a resolution around this. 

 

Feels like Ike a kick on the teeth when you do everything they ask then they still provide more obstacles so fingers crossed collectively we can make some progress. 

[wgdanson]

I have just one hour ago got my letter from BE in 9 days, thank you. However it does not really make sense what is written, as it says "MR Expat has stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling £XXX." This is incorrect as I stated that my ANNUAL INCOME was £XXX as is asked for on the application form, which includes share divis, interest and rental income. Then it goes on to say "Mr ExPat has also shown to us online bank statements from XXX Bank & Bkk Bank stating that he receives pensions totalling  £XXXx12 per annum" which is exactly the same bloody thing.....INCORRECT.  

Finally at the bottom it says "The service provided by The British Embassy, Bangkok on this document should not be taken as to certify that this document is binding in law (whether under UK law or otherwise). Individuals are advised to seek independent legal advice as to the validity of this document under the relevant law" Can anyone decipher what this gibberish means please.

Edited October 20, 2018 by wgdanson

[Esso49]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I have just one hour ago got my letter from BE in 9 days, thank you. However it does not really make sense what is written, as it says "MR Expat has stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling £XXX." This is incorrect as I stated that my ANNUAL INCOME was £XXX, which includes share divis, interest and rental income. Then it goes on to say "Mr ExPat has also shown to us online bank statements from XXX Bank & Bkk Bank stating that he receives pensions totalling  £XXXx12 per annum" which is exactly the same bloody thing.....INCORRECT.  

Finally at the bottom it says "The service provided by The British Embassy, Bangkok on this document should not be taken as to certify that this document is binding in law (whether under UK law or otherwise). Individuals are advised to seek independent legal advice as to the validity of this document under the relevant law" Can anyone decipher what this gibberish means please.

It means that the BE employ local morons who are unable to undertsand your application but just cobble together something that sounds good to them.   Then to compound the fact that they are screwing you for 52 GBP it gets signed off by a consular official who are probably far too busy on their smartphone to actual read the document that they are signing off.   In other words it just typifies the attitude and lack of professionalism of  the British Embassy in Bangkok

Edited October 20, 2018 by Esso49

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

It means that the BE employ local morons who are unable to undertsand your application but just cobble together something that sounds good to them.   Then to compound the fact that they are screwing you for 52 GBP it gets signed off by a consular official who are probably far too busy on their smartphone to actual read the document that they are signing off.   In other words it just typifies the attitude and lack of professionalism of the the British Embassy in Bangkok

It has been this same format for the last four years that I know of, and to be honest I never really read what it said. But with all this palaver I decided to read it. What a load of cobblers it is.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I always use the income method too as my proof of income too and it may be difficult for me next year as well. Have you got your wires crossed, I am in totally agreement with you, I merely stated that I thought you had to show 12 months of earnings, is this not the case?

All I have ever done Vogie is to send my annual pension statements to the embassy and they have produced the letter. The letter confirms both the gross annual and monthly income in GBP. And that is all I have ever presented to immigration.

 

What I have said is that I would be able prove to immigration, without the embassy interceding, that I have that income using those same letters and bank statements if they wish to see them. Although, personally I think that the latter would be an intrusion on my private life.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Kadilo said:

 

 

“I hope this thread remains as your intent for those who rely upon certificate of income letters and not side tracked by others again”

 

That will only be the case if it is regularly moderated and everyone reports non related posts.

Hopefully this one will stay on subject.

 

 

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Oh I hope so as well Kadilo. But I've been on the forum for too long now to hold out too much hope!

 

You know what I mean?  ????

 

Here's a little quote I've just found:

 

Every problem has in it the seeds of its own solution. If you don’t have any problems, you don’t get any seeds.

 

— NORMAN VINCENT PEALE

Edited October 20, 2018 by Moonlover

[dick dasterdly]

The 'way forward' is for the BE to realise it's made a mistake - and continue providing 'proof of income' letters.

 

Demanding original documents would be fair enough, as TI have always been able to demand these to accompany the REQUIRED letter from the embassy.

Edited October 20, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[thailand49]

I've gone through as many articles regarding this subject something is getting lost in the translation and the point seem to be missed here regarding the subject.

First " tells us nothing new "  " I do not believe that we have any hope of persuading the Embassy to recant on the issue "  

It seems the Embassy hasn't even decided the final decision yet posted comes to a conclusion " might nothing new and recant " doesn't seem final to me?

Personally, if someone had schedule a meeting with me and brought up the topic of verification of income? being the trained double talk politician I would have returned the question " is there currently a problem with the current process " As I stated in prior post for a topic such as this to be brought up I would assume they have found some evidence that would raise a red flag?  I look at the current requirement would assume this is the requirement outline by the Thai immigration this isn't something any Embassy has demanded to Thailand.  It has been acceptable all these years as they outline themselves with all their raids lately by Big Joke which doesn't seem related since all the one's being picked up are the bumps their own Immigration allow in with a bit of grease to the palm! I would like to see some numbers evidence of course I would ask nicely with a smile if our Embassy wasn't doing a through enough job!  Otherwise please would you like a hot cup of tea short of telling him " bye and don't let the door hit you on the way on "

 

As far as I'm concern the question should have been forward back to the Thais and ask them what is your solution as we know in general they have none!  It seems there is a motive to this madness push maybe by the banks to Immigration that they can have access to more money if foreigner all have to have the necessary money in THEIR BANKS. One does the math that is a lot of money.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

I have just one hour ago got my letter from BE in 9 days, thank you. However it does not really make sense what is written, as it says "MR Expat has stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling £XXX." This is incorrect as I stated that my ANNUAL INCOME was £XXX as is asked for on the application form, which includes share divis, interest and rental income. Then it goes on to say "Mr ExPat has also shown to us online bank statements from XXX Bank & Bkk Bank stating that he receives pensions totalling  £XXXx12 per annum" which is exactly the same bloody thing.....INCORRECT.  

Finally at the bottom it says "The service provided by The British Embassy, Bangkok on this document should not be taken as to certify that this document is binding in law (whether under UK law or otherwise). Individuals are advised to seek independent legal advice as to the validity of this document under the relevant law" Can anyone decipher what this gibberish means please.

Just out of interest, does the embassy's letter provide you with sufficient information to be able to proceed with your next extension?

[chilly07]

2 hours ago, Kadilo said:

 

 

“I hope this thread remains as your intent for those who rely upon certificate of income letters and not side tracked by others again”

 

That will only be the case if it is regularly moderated and everyone reports non related posts.

Hopefully this one will stay on subject.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Has Sarah Reth said why the won't do the letter anymore? They only ever confirmed the documents they received!

 

6 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

I quite agree Moonlover, however Immigration are sticking to the old format ie Embassy Letter and that has been told to the many who have been to their Imm offices and enquired. I have written a number of times to Sarah Reth pointing out the misinformation in regard to showing income thro Bank Statements and she has never addressed it in her replies. I have also urged her to continue negotiations with the Thai authorities to find a solution to this problem as by doing what they did they removed 2 avenues of proof from us the Income and the combination method. She again has neither confirmed or denied the BE are doing this.

I would be quite happy to show statements or even a Bank letter stating that over the last 12 mths Mr Expat has deposited 400/800k which equates to a monthly income into his Thai account of 40/65k but until this is acceptable to Immigration we remain up the creek without a paddle.

Has she said why they won't do the letter anymore?

[wgdanson]

19 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Just out of interest, does the embassy's letter provide you with sufficient information to be able to proceed with your next extension?

I hope so, it has done for previous four extensions, and it is exactly the same 'lies'. As far as I am aware, the Immigration Officer simply looks at the monthly total in GBP, multiplies it by the current exchange rate. If it is over Bht 65,000 he stamps my passport. The Immigration Officer is not going to analyse the English used and say it is not correct. I don't know what happens if it is less than 65 because mine never has been. Fingers crossed for Dec 7th.

Edited October 20, 2018 by wgdanson

[Moonlover]

10 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I hope so, it has done for previous four extensions, and it is exactly the same 'lies'. As far as I am aware, the Immigration Officer simply looks at the monthly total in GBP, multiplies it by the current exchange rate. If it is over Bht 65,000 he stamps my passport. The Immigration Officer is not going to analyse the English used and say it is not correct. I don't know what happens if it is less than 65 because mine never has been. Fingers crossed for Dec 7th.

Good for you. Then you don't have a problem do you. So why all the moaning?

[Expattaff1308]

27 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Has Sarah Reth said why the won't do the letter anymore? They only ever confirmed the documents they received!

 

Has she said why they won't do the letter anymore?

Because she says they are unable to do what Immigration has asked them to do Verify the contents of the evidence we supplied.

I have heard 2 other versions  (1) the FCO carried out an audit and they asked is there another way Brits can prove their income and was told yes Bank Statements and (2) there was a seminar with Immigration who asked them to scrutinise the evidence more carefully before issuing the Letter, no mention of verifying...so its what you believe???

[peterpop]

I have just renewed my 12 month [married] visa.  I had a letter from the Embassy but the Chiang Mai Immigration asked for the ''Proof'' that I had given to get the letter.  I did this and no problem.  

So we will save a lot of money.

As a double check, my wife knows a senior Immigration Officer at CM and asked if just the Bank deposits would be OK next year.  She said that she would require information from where it was derived, same as this time.  If I wanted to be sure just email the details prior to submission next year.  Clear enough.

UK Pension plus a little more from investments.

Edited October 20, 2018 by peterpop

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Good for you. Then you don't have a problem do you. So why all the moaning?

The problem would arise if TI asked for backup-proof, and what he provided did not match the type of income stated in the letter.  Would TI care?  Depends on the IO.