Trolleys On Escalators... Near Disaster!

[Weho]

I agree that pilars in front of the STEEP escalators would solve the problem. They do NOT have any at the new BKK airport. I guess they are spending all their time trying to figure out ways to fit in more shops, because the 1,000 or so shops already there, just aren't enough. God forbid someone couldn't get a 5,000 baht bottle of French perfume on their way to say Kota Kinabalu.

Are really, 100 perfume outlets just isn't enough of a choice for many of us. I can see how they overlooked the pilars, cause escalators don't generate as much money for contractors as perfume stores.

And really, I've seen a lot of kids riding those trolleys... and it woudln't surprise me if some drunk rotten parent put their kid on one, and headed straight for the nearest STEEP escalator, with no pilars in front.

And then I can imagine the awful bloody scene, with the crying child with the head cracked open, with blood flowing out, that hit the beautiful marble tiled floor... and everyone around saying "oh, this is just awful... if only the parent saw the signs..." then realizing there were no signs.

And on a related subject, I've been to some BIG C stores, in Pattaya, where their trolleys aren't as well maintained as we might like... put one on the escalator, and the wheels wouldn't set into the groves... it would have gone flying down, had I not been able to hold the thing will full force. Disaster waiting to happen. I would strongly suggest you wait for the thing to be all clear if heading UP... If you're heading DOWN, you should hire someone at the top to block off anyone from entering it, until you've exited at the bottom.

[markuk]

looking at the escalators in the airport it doesnt take a genuius to realise the baggage trolleys do not go on the steep ones. I cant believe you would even get confused.

I also have not seen anyone in my many visits throught the new airport even attempt to go through these escalators!!

You really need to get out more.

[ovenman]

looking at the escalators in the airport it doesnt take a genuius to realise the baggage trolleys do not go on the steep ones. I cant believe you would even get confused.

I also have not seen anyone in my many visits throught the new airport even attempt to go through these escalators!!

You really need to get out more.

In all fairness, it sounds like you are the one who needs to get out more. Have you not been paying attention to other reports in this thread? There are other airports in the world that use regular, steep escalators for bag trolleys. Kuala Lumpur is a good example of an airport that does so, an airport that is both somewhat local and relatively new. Imagine if you were Malay, coming to Bangkok for the first time, and your experience in airports is pretty much limited to KLIA (where the trolleys go on the regular, steep escalators). Would this person be stupid in your estimation for assuming that the same is not true at brand-new Suvarnabhumi?

[Weho]

looking at the escalators in the airport it doesnt take a genuius to realise the baggage trolleys do not go on the steep ones. I cant believe you would even get confused.

I also have not seen anyone in my many visits throught the new airport even attempt to go through these escalators!!

You really need to get out more.

In all fairness, it sounds like you are the one who needs to get out more. Have you not been paying attention to other reports in this thread? There are other airports in the world that use regular, steep escalators for bag trolleys. Kuala Lumpur is a good example of an airport that does so, an airport that is both somewhat local and relatively new. Imagine if you were Malay, coming to Bangkok for the first time, and your experience in airports is pretty much limited to KLIA (where the trolleys go on the regular, steep escalators). Would this person be stupid in your estimation for assuming that the same is not true at brand-new Suvarnabhumi?

Well said... Honestly, and tired and drunk arriving passenger will surely think, "I've seen these trolleys go up and down STEEP escalators in airports all over the world, why should I assume Bangkok airport, state of the art and more modern than any other, would be any different... I think I'll go down that STEEP escalator right there..."

OOOPPS!!!

Sorry to be repetitive, but it's is NOT the arriving passenger's job or responsibility to be able to EVALUATE which escalators CAN and CANNOT be used with the trolleys... passenger's just aren't trained to know the difference. And for anyone to suggest that an arriving passenger can "just look" at a steep escalator, and somehow can magically and correctly determine it's intended use, or non use, is just foolish, and RISKY. It's a SAFETY issue here... one that can be corrected very cheaply, quickly, and simply.

[wpcoe]

My recollection was that in Zurich airport, the trolleys go up and down the steep escalators... not sure if they had signs of any kind or not.

Trolleys are put on regular escalators at (I believe) Kuala Lumpur International Airport as well. It's somewhat disconcerting the first time you do this but the trolleys themselves are of some special design so that they lock in place.

Yes, and so is Frankfurt. The trolley locks with the steps on the escalators and becomes freed when the steps move on the the flat part.

Max.-weight, I remember(?) is 70 kgs and common sense would be not to load too high to avoid your bags slipping of. There is a bar under which your bag(s) should fit.

Edit to add, the BKK-trolleys do not seems to fit on escalators forming stairs, but ok for me to go up and down on the flat travellators.

Narita airport also uses baggage trolleys on standard "steep" stair-stype escalators. Perhaps some of the folks who are deriding the OP for his "stupidity" don't get out much? FRA, ZRH, KUL and NRT are not exactly obscure airports... Okay, maybe ZRH is.

[bendix]

Sorry to be repetitive, but it's is NOT the arriving passenger's job or responsibility to be able to EVALUATE which escalators CAN and CANNOT be used with the trolleys... passenger's just aren't trained to know the difference. And for anyone to suggest that an arriving passenger can "just look" at a steep escalator, and somehow can magically and correctly determine it's intended use, or non use, is just foolish, and RISKY. It's a SAFETY issue here... one that can be corrected very cheaply, quickly, and simply.

Ummmmm . . i really don't know what to say. Weho, I'm seriously hoping you're joking with us and not being serious.

Perhaps you would also recommend signs on all doors saying 'Please Open Before Walking Through' also, just in case passengers didnt realise it wasnt safe to walk through. Imagine the hundreds of bloody noses we would see then.

Does a person need a sign to realise that taking a luggage trolley down regular escalators is dangerous? Are people really that stupid? What the hel_l happened to people's ability to think logically and take care of themselves? Where does personal responsibility start and finish; no, i'll go one step more. Where does common sense start and finish?

I'm amazed. Truly amazed.

[esprit]

Weho, I go along with the general consensus that common sense comes first. But you stated "I imagine a few hundred people a day tumble down that escalator". Well I have neither read about, heard about , or seen anything that confirms that there has been 1 let alone hundreds per day of accidents that seem to concern you.

Could it be that you are suffering from a type of "Escalator Fear Syndrome". Perhaps with the right medical help you could overcome this elevated level of personal risk anxiety from which you appear to suffer and hence allow you to travel in a more relaxed state of mind in future.

Get Well Soon

[Weho]

Weho, I go along with the general consensus that common sense comes first. But you stated "I imagine a few hundred people a day tumble down that escalator". Well I have neither read about, heard about , or seen anything that confirms that there has been 1 let alone hundreds per day of accidents that seem to concern you.

Since the last two posters feel that "common sense" is the key, and you don't see it as a problem at all, and you feel this just isn't happening to anyone ever, I make this suggestion:

Why don't you prove it to us, by standing AT THE BOTTOM of the STEEP escalator, which is going down, with you back faced to the escalator, with your eyes closed, and with a loud mp3 player into your ears (with noise-cancelling), and just stand there all day. Surely, you don't think there is any risk of getting knocked over by a tumbling baggage trolley, put on there by some stupid person, with such great common sense as YOU TWO claim that everyone should have. We just can't all be as smart as you think you are.

I say go for it. Prove the rest of us wrong. Go stand at the bottom of that escalator. What are you waiting for? You're losing time. Go now.

[esprit]

Weho, your mental abberations appear more serious than I thought. Please seek help soon,

Hope you are able to get well soon,

ps. why would I want an mp3 player anyway? don't doctors advise against their use at high volume? now that really is a serious and medically proved risk.

[wpcoe]

Does a person need a sign to realise that taking a luggage trolley down regular escalators is dangerous? Are people really that stupid? What the hel_l happened to people's ability to think logically and take care of themselves? Where does personal responsibility start and finish; no, i'll go one step more. Where does common sense start and finish?

I'm amazed. Truly amazed.

If people using ZRH, NRT, FRA and KUL never used the regular-looking escalators with their baggage carts, the lines to the elevators would be prohibitively long.

C'mon guys, think outside of your box. Maybe you've never seen escalators and carts that work together, but they exist. Someone who flies regularly between NRT and FRA, for example, could easily mistake that other airports have similarly designed trolley systems.

"Common sense" is relative to the situation. Your "common sense" might be shocked to see dozens of well-trained Japanese travellers take their trolleys up the escalators at NRT. Their "common sense" might be shaken as they watch their trolley tumble down an escalator at a different airport.

I suspect that the reason there are not signs warning folks at Suvarnabhumi not to take carts on the escalators is that, as someone mentioned above, they don't *fit*.

[Weho]

Weho, your mental abberations appear more serious than I thought. Please seek help soon,

Hope you are able to get well soon,

ps. why would I want an mp3 player anyway? don't doctors advise against their use at high volume? now that really is a serious and medically proved risk.

Thank you for the free medical advice. Maybe mp3 players at loud volume are a risk, but maybe listeners are not always properly warned of these risks. Do you assume that everyone magically has the wonderful common sense that you have, and just somehow knows not to play it at full volume, even though the volume control ALLOWS it to go so loud? If there is no warning, or if the warning is written in say English, and the listener doesn't read English, do you just consider them stupid?

And by the way, I believe Bangkok airport escalators are equally known and proven to be a safety hazard, as an mp3 player can be. If you don't think so, why not take the challenge to stand at the bottom of one for a few hours. Don't you want to prove to the rest of us that you stand by what you write? We're waiting, genius.

Edited February 16, 2007 by Weho

[ovenman]

Does a person need a sign to realise that taking a luggage trolley down regular escalators is dangerous? Are people really that stupid? What the hel_l happened to people's ability to think logically and take care of themselves? Where does personal responsibility start and finish; no, i'll go one step more. Where does common sense start and finish?

I'm amazed. Truly amazed.

You know what truly amazes me? That you would still write the above after seeing repeated posts in this thread state that taking luggage trolleys down regular escalators is an established practice in other airports world-wide.

[jumnien]

For some people, no names, it would be far safer that they be refused to exit the airplane upon arrival until they are wearing a full face helmet and a straight-jacket or perhaps dollied out "Hannibal Lechter" style and transported by delivery van to Walking Street for their entire stay. Perhaps this warrants a new visa category?

[Weho]

I just feel there should be something called "reasonable signage", like for safety, security, directions, rules, laws, etc. Of course this issue is WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE of what requires signage, and what doesn't.

And there should also be something called "reasonable pillarage", where pillars are put, to prevent unsuspecting people from taking a large object, like a luggage trolley, into somewhere the "powers that be" don't want that large object... like on a escalator that isn't intended for such large object, or in front of a duty free shopping area too congested for large trolleys (as in Dubai airport I believe), or in front of some elevators, as i have seen at Narita airport in Tokyo.

But to those defenders of "common sense", presuming that all people have "common sense", including drunk and tired travellers, in foreign countries, you would all seem less hypocritical if you proposed removing ALL signage everywhere, for ANY purpose. Like here in Thailand, I've seen signs in front of places that are obviously bars, at least obvious to anyone with common sense... it might have a sign like "John's Bar". Why do they identify it as a "bar", when all you have to do is look at it? Clearly you can see it's a bar, right? Is that your attitude/theory? How about removing signs for hospitals, emergency entrances, etc.? Shouldn't it just be really obvious to you people that they just "look" like hospitals?

[esprit]

But that means with the exit sign removed you would still be sitting on the plane,

Get Well very soon,

PS Not sure if Valium is available here "over the counter" or not

Edited February 16, 2007 by daveupson

[PhilHarries]

But to those defenders of "common sense", presuming that all people have "common sense", including drunk and tired travellers, in foreign countries, you would all seem less hypocritical if you proposed removing ALL signage everywhere, for ANY purpose. Like here in Thailand, I've seen signs in front of places that are obviously bars, at least obvious to anyone with common sense... it might have a sign like "John's Bar". Why do they identify it as a "bar", when all you have to do is look at it? Clearly you can see it's a bar, right? Is that your attitude/theory? How about removing signs for hospitals, emergency entrances, etc.? Shouldn't it just be really obvious to you people that they just "look" like hospitals?

Because if they just identified it as "John's" they might have a queue of Americans going in there for a waz. Especially if it were at Suvarnabhumi.

But you may have a point that there should be barriers or signs after all we have warning notices on packets of nuts "Warning this packet contains nuts".

[bino]

What's really stupid at the heart of all this is the design of Suvarnabhumi, and even needing to change floors. They have you going up to the third floor to meet and greet your guests, then back down to the first floor to get a taxi. The best airports I have ever seen have all of the baggage claim, waiting area, exits, taxi stands et al on the same level. Changi for example, is brilliant. Nice big waiting area with glass barrier so that you can see your arriving guests waiting for their baggage, and steps away from a smooth running taxi queue sytem where the passengers queue in the airconditoning.

If people using ZRH, NRT, FRA and KUL never used the regular-looking escalators with their baggage carts, the lines to the elevators would be prohibitively long.

C'mon guys, think outside of your box. Maybe you've never seen escalators and carts that work together, but they exist. Someone who flies regularly between NRT and FRA, for example, could easily mistake that other airports have similarly designed trolley systems.

Ok- I'll accept that these escalators do exist- I've never been to ZRH, NRT or FRA to see them in action, but I have been to KUL and don't recall.

If I saw other people using these escalators and the locking system made sense, I'd use them too. But common sense from a lifetime of experience with escalators tells me that you can't normally take a trolley on them.

I would say that they are the exception and not the norm. If they were so common and great, I'm sure that every new Tesco or Carrefour springing up in Bangkok would be installing them instead of the long gradual style moving ramps which use up valuable retail space.

And by the way, I believe Bangkok airport escalators are equally known and proven to be a safety hazard, as an mp3 player can be. If you don't think so, why not take the challenge to stand at the bottom of one for a few hours. Don't you want to prove to the rest of us that you stand by what you write? We're waiting, genius.

If trolleys are crashing down the escalators at least 100 times daily as you estimate, and considering that there are 1440 minutes in 24 hours, that equates to an incident happening every 15 minutes on average or less.

I recently spent more than 2 hours at Suvarnabhumi hanging out in the arrivals area waiting for my GF to arrive on a return flight from Korea. (Arrived early, flight was late) So- I should have seen at least 8 incidents by your rationing, but I didn't see any. If it really was happening every 15 minutes, or even once daily, The AOT would probably put up some barrier posts.

I'll put my faith in the gypsy cab drivers (who have probably never been to ZRH) and the rest of the general public who have common sense and take your challenge Weho. What's in it for me? What would you care to bet?

[thai_narak]

the airport's sign board manager has just got a new mercedes benz...

[bendix]

For Gods sake Weho. Let it go.

You are an adult. If it looks dangerous to take a ###### trolley on an escalator, it probably is. You don't need a sign to tell you that small escalator steps multiplied by hard to manourve, overburdened luggage trolley equals possible accident, do you?

How hard does life have to be?

Use your brain man.

And what's all this nonsense about standing at the bottom of said escalators with our backs to them to prove a point that it might be dangerous? Well, it would only be bloody dangerous if some wally tried to bring a trolley down them, of course.

By the way, can you back up your claim of hundreds of trolley-related escalator accidents a day?

[bendix]

Would this person be stupid in your estimation for assuming that the same is not true at brand-new Suvarnabhumi?

Ummmm . yes!

[bendix]

And by the way, I believe Bangkok airport escalators are equally known and proven to be a safety hazard, as an mp3 player can be.

Really? That's fascinating. What's your evidence, by the way?

[ovenman]

Would this person be stupid in your estimation for assuming that the same is not true at brand-new Suvarnabhumi?

Ummmm . yes!

What is different from say, KLIA where i can go to a limo desk, can use the sky train, can take my luck with private taxis or can go with the nice indian fella who approaches me with his private car? Isnt it up to me to use my judgement as a services purchaser to decide what i want?

By your own admission you do frequent Kuala Lumpur International Airport, where the baggage trolleys are indeed used on the regular steep escalators (this little factoid must have escaped your ever-vigilant eye, but we'll let that slide). Tell you what, next time you are at KLIA, why don't you take a few moments, position yourself near an escalator, and admonish those with baggage trolleys on your escalator that they are both stupid and lack common sense. Consider it as a civic duty performed for your fellow travelers.

[Weho]

If it really was happening every 15 minutes, or even once daily, The AOT would probably put up some barrier posts.

I'll put my faith in the gypsy cab drivers (who have probably never been to ZRH) and the rest of the general public who have common sense and take your challenge Weho. What's in it for me? What would you care to bet?

YOu would trust the AOT people to put up barrier posts... the same people that somehow forgot to put in 200 or so toilets?

What's in it for you: you would have the satisfaction of proving some of us wrong, you know, the ones with no common sense.

I never stated that I saw anyone crashing down any escalator there... I only predicted and estimated how often it might happen. Maybe it happens once every six months... maybe once ever minute... I don't know, but I do know that it happens... or that kind Gypsy cab driver you referenced, the one that rushed over to warn me NOT to get on the escalator, would NOT have warned me. Right?

So can we all at least agree that at least ONE TIME, someone went crashing down? Is that a good starting point for some "common ground'? So I guess the REAL question is HOW MANY times is it ACCEPTABLE to have people crashing down, before signs and/or pillars are put up?

I say one time is enough... One injury is enough for me to warrant the effort/expense.

[bendix]

I don't recall them being used on escalators in KLIA. Observing such things is hardly high on my list of concerns.

However, IF they are used, good for them. I would venture to suggest, though, that they are not MEANT to be used and instead at airports where I have more experience one intuitively knows not to use them and instead use elevators when taking luggage, unless - of course - the designers had the foresight to also build the long sloping escalators.

But, again, the issue is of so little importance that it's not worth discussing. I can't believe people would EVER think that taking trolleys on normal escalators isn't a bit damned silly.

But, as my dear old dad used to say, "Never underestimate people's stupidity."

[bendix]

I never stated that I saw anyone crashing down any escalator there... I only predicted and estimated how often it might happen. Maybe it happens once every six months... maybe once ever minute... I don't know, but I do know that it happens... or that kind Gypsy cab driver you referenced, the one that rushed over to warn me NOT to get on the escalator, would NOT have warned me. Right?

So can we all at least agree that at least ONE TIME, someone went crashing down? Is that a good starting point for some "common ground'? So I guess the REAL question is HOW MANY times is it ACCEPTABLE to have people crashing down, before signs and/or pillars are put up?

I say one time is enough... One injury is enough for me to warrant the effort/expense.

From a couple of hundred times a day to just one time in history in just a couple of posts.

That's a hel_l of an improvement in the airport's safety record. I think the airport designers deserve a special medal for that progress.

[Weho]

From a couple of hundred times a day to just one time in history in just a couple of posts.

That's a hel_l of an improvement in the airport's safety record. I think the airport designers deserve a special medal for that progress.

I'm hoping that's not your best "A" comedy material. I stand by my original statement/prediction/estimate, as well as the later "range" estimate/prediction of between one incident in six months, and one a minute.

Why shouldn't people use trolley's on steep escalators, if they are designed to accomodate them, as in so many other airports? I guess your father had a good deal of experience being able to identify stupidity. He probably as a great deal of common sense, no doubt he passed all of that down to you.

[bendix]

Why shouldn't people use trolley's on steep escalators, if they are designed to accomodate them, as in so many other airports?

Oh, for the love of God.

If they are designed to use them, they should and can. If they aren't, they shouldn't.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist (or need a sign) to enable a rational person to tell the difference, does it?

[ovenman]

I don't recall them being used on escalators in KLIA. Observing such things is hardly high on my list of concerns.

However, IF they are used, good for them. I would venture to suggest, though, that they are not MEANT to be used and instead at airports where I have more experience one intuitively knows not to use them and instead use elevators when taking luggage, unless - of course - the designers had the foresight to also build the long sloping escalators.

But, again, the issue is of so little importance that it's not worth discussing. I can't believe people would EVER think that taking trolleys on normal escalators isn't a bit damned silly.

But, as my dear old dad used to say, "Never underestimate people's stupidity."

You still don't seem to be grasping what is being said here: the baggage trolleys are not being placed on the regular escalators in airports such as KLIA, Frankfurt, Narita, etc. because people are stupid, lack common sense, or are simply doing something that they shouldn't ought to be doing. People are using baggage trolleys on the regular, steep elevators at these airports because the trolleys were specifically designed to be used on the regular, steep escalators. I would think that a self-professed world traveler such as yourself would know better than to assume that things are done the same way everywhere in the world.

Edited February 16, 2007 by ovenman

[bendix]

You still don't seem to be grasping what is being said here: the baggage trolleys are not being placed on the regular escalators in airports such as KLIA, Frankfurt, Narita, etc. because people are stupid, lack common sense, or are simply doing something that they shouldn't ought to be doing. People are using baggage trolleys on the regular, steep elevators at these airports because the trolleys were specifically designed to be used on the regular, steep escalators. I would think that a self-professed world traveler such as yourself would know better than to assume that things are done the same way everywhere in the world.

Yes, and if it's obvious that if the escalators arent purpose built for trolleys, as in Bkk, then one wouldnt use them unless one is a moron, would one?

Honestly, trying to have a rational debate with you two is like trying to jog through treacle.

Edited February 16, 2007 by bendix

[Weho]

It doesnt take a rocket scientist (or need a sign) to enable a rational person to tell the difference, does it?

Not everyone arriving at bangkok airport is as rational as you are, nor has the great common sense you think we should all have. We pay a high airport tax, signs or better yet pillars should be put in place... and Quite frankly, someone from the airport management should be monitoring these discussions here, to get ideas of what to fix, and they should be installed by the end of the day TODAY. That is reasonable to me.

Edited February 16, 2007 by Weho