Pheu Thai prepares for worst-case scenario

[HalfLight]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Encouraged by Marky... you should ask yourself who put the men in black there and why they were allowed to walk free among the protesters.. 

 

Marky guilty.. sure.. but the other side just as guilty for putting armed black shirts in their midst probably ordered by the man in charge above it all.

 

Men in black...

 

A myth quite the equal of Bigfoot.

 

Men in black - OK... whatever floats yer boat.

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

Point taken.

 

IMHO it's also treasonous for one party to amend laws to try to keep their party in power by deliberately destroying the checks and balances of the pillars of democracy.

 

IMHO it's also treasonous for a party to attempt at 3.00 am in the morning while the country is sleeping to attempt to get an amnesty for a convicted criminal who is also awaiting trial on a long list of other serious charges. 

 

When did PTP try to destroy checks and balances ? And in what way exactly ? are you talking about their attempt to make the senate fully elected, which of course if fully in line with your pillars of democracy !

 

The amnesty bill never made it through, to suggest that a lower house voting on it at 3:00 is treasonous is ludicrous. It does not even compare to what the Junta did. The fact that the amnesty bill (which was not only targeted at Thaksin) did not make it through is the best evidence why a coup was not needed. Democracy worked in Thailand, it's just that the choice of the people cannot meet the approval of the elites, hence the coup, as the government was already in care taker status, elections scheduled. The elites wanted to prevent the Thai electorate to re-elect PTP nothing more and nothing less.

 

One should not fear an amnesty that never made it through, one should fear one that became law, just because the Junta can change the law, without even a single elected MP voting for it. How progressively worse things have become, pillars of democracy have all been destroyed....

 

As to the broken record of "convicted criminal" when referring to Thaksin, his conviction was everything but clear and just, and since the other side can commit crimes with impunity the term convicted criminal in Thailand means absolutely nothing, as witnessed by the fact, that no country (not even China) has ever bothered to extradite Thaksin. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by sjaak327

[robblok]

10 hours ago, HalfLight said:

 

Men in black...

 

A myth quite the equal of Bigfoot.

 

Men in black - OK... whatever floats yer boat.

There is proof of these guys plenty of pictures and a few convictions Perhaps you need new glasses.

[HalfLight]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

There is proof of these guys plenty of pictures and a few convictions Perhaps you need new glasses.

 

Please get real. A few photos of people in black shirts is not proof of anything.

Who were they? Dunno.

Where were they? Dunno.

What were they doing? Dunno.

Who commanded them? Dunno.

Where did they get guns? Dunno.

Why has there been no unmasking (like the popcorn shooter)? Dunno.

Were any of them shot by any of the thousands of soldiers with guns? And bullets? Dunno.

What were they charged with? How credible was the evidence(remembering this is Thailand)? Dunno.

 

Please stop peddling this fiction in ways which imply things that have no reality. It's embarrassing.

 

And it broke my BS Meter.

 

 

 

[zzaa09]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

There is proof of these guys plenty of pictures and a few convictions Perhaps you need new glasses.

.....and a wealth of evidence of a wide variety of Sasquatch-type critters abound. 

Jing-jing. 

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

Please get real. A few photos of people in black shirts is not proof of anything.

Who were they? Dunno.

Where were they? Dunno.

What were they doing? Dunno.

Who commanded them? Dunno.

Where did they get guns? Dunno.

Why has there been no unmasking (like the popcorn shooter)? Dunno.

Were any of them shot by any of the thousands of soldiers with guns? And bullets? Dunno.

What were they charged with? How credible was the evidence(remembering this is Thailand)? Dunno.

 

Please stop peddling this fiction in ways which imply things that have no reality. It's embarrassing.

 

And it broke my BS Meter.

 

 

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/01/31/blackshirt-suspects-acquitted-court-returned-jail/

 

https://www.hrw.org/report/2011/05/03/descent-chaos/thailands-2010-red-shirt-protests-and-government-crackdown

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by robblok

[HalfLight]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/01/31/blackshirt-suspects-acquitted-court-returned-jail/

 

 

Seriously.? Insufficient evidence to convict and you triumphantly proclaim it as proof of something?

 

Seriously?

 

Yuou should be embarrassed that this is what you have resorted to in order to peddle your snake oil. I'm embarrassed for you.

[robblok]

Just now, HalfLight said:

Seriously.? Insufficient evidence to convict and you triumphantly proclaim it as proof of something?

 

Seriously?

 

Yuou should be embarrassed that this is what you have resorted to in order to peddle your snake oil. I'm embarrassed for you.

I don't really care what you think

 

Even independent respected organisations knew they were there. 

https://www.hrw.org/report/2011/05/03/descent-chaos/thailands-2010-red-shirt-protests-and-government-crackdown

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

Seriously.? Insufficient evidence to convict and you triumphantly proclaim it as proof of something?

 

Seriously?

 

Yuou should be embarrassed that this is what you have resorted to in order to peddle your snake oil. I'm embarrassed for you.

And next time read the articles.. not all were acquitted.

[HalfLight]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

And next time read the articles.. not all were acquitted.

 

Two were convicted on firearms charges, not for anything they did with the fireams.

 

For God's sake man, wake up. Remanded in custody because the prosecuion might appeal? Thai jurisprudence at it's very finest.

 

Ye Gods and little fishes... and yet, as ridiculous as it is, there's always someone who isn't Thai who'll believe it.

 

I can't engage in this nonsense any more, sorry, no offence.

[bannork]

Thaksin always employed a two prong strategy, through Parliament- his party, and through street protests, the foot soldiers, the red shirts, and other shadowy groups, of whom the black shirts were one referred to in several media outlets at the time.

10 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

When did PTP try to destroy checks and balances ? And in what way exactly ? are you talking about their attempt to make the senate fully elected, which of course if fully in line with your pillars of democracy !

 

The amnesty bill never made it through, to suggest that a lower house voting on it at 3:00 is treasonous is ludicrous. It does not even compare to what the Junta did. The fact that the amnesty bill (which was not only targeted at Thaksin) did not make it through is the best evidence why a coup was not needed. Democracy worked in Thailand, it's just that the choice of the people cannot meet the approval of the elites, hence the coup, as the government was already in care taker status, elections scheduled. The elites wanted to prevent the Thai electorate to re-elect PTP nothing more and nothing less.

 

One should not fear an amnesty that never made it through, one should fear one that became law, just because the Junta can change the law, without even a single elected MP voting for it. How progressively worse things have become, pillars of democracy have all been destroyed....

 

As to the broken record of "convicted criminal" when referring to Thaksin, his conviction was everything but clear and just, and since the other side can commit crimes with impunity the term convicted criminal in Thailand means absolutely nothing, as witnessed by the fact, that no country (not even China) has ever bothered to extradite Thaksin. 

PTP or rather Thaksin , did everything he could to destroy checks and balances, from silencing the independent media at the time by refusing them any government advertising, an important source of revenue, to appointing 'his men' to  positions on independent organizations designed to check the government.

As in business, where he sought total domination through the deals AIS secured in the early days, so he tried to do the same in politics- by buying up every party going, except The Democrats.

I remember a conversation he had with journalists, comparing politics to business and the need for domination.

The man is a dangerous megalomaniac and the last thing Thai politics needs to develop genuine democratic roots.

 

 

[zzaa09]

35 minutes ago, bannork said:

Thaksin always employed a two prong strategy, through Parliament- his party, and through street protests, the foot soldiers, the red shirts, and other shadowy groups, of whom the black shirts were one referred to in several media outlets at the time.

PTP or rather Thaksin , did everything he could to destroy checks and balances, from silencing the independent media at the time by refusing them any government advertising, an important source of revenue, to appointing 'his men' to  positions on independent organizations designed to check the government.

As in business, where he sought total domination through the deals AIS secured in the early days, so he tried to do the same in politics- by buying up every party going, except The Democrats.

I remember a conversation he had with journalists, comparing politics to business and the need for domination.

The man is a dangerous megalomaniac and the last thing Thai politics needs to develop genuine democratic roots.

 

 

So in essence, these commonplace activities are universal and practiced continuously the world over. 

 

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Thaksin always employed a two prong strategy, through Parliament- his party, and through street protests, the foot soldiers, the red shirts, and other shadowy groups, of whom the black shirts were one referred to in several media outlets at the time.

PTP or rather Thaksin , did everything he could to destroy checks and balances, from silencing the independent media at the time by refusing them any government advertising, an important source of revenue, to appointing 'his men' to  positions on independent organizations designed to check the government.

As in business, where he sought total domination through the deals AIS secured in the early days, so he tried to do the same in politics- by buying up every party going, except The Democrats.

I remember a conversation he had with journalists, comparing politics to business and the need for domination.

The man is a dangerous megalomaniac and the last thing Thai politics needs to develop genuine democratic roots.

 

 

so In other words, nothing you bring to table constitutes destroying checks and balances. The press was free during his tenure and at no time did the system of checks and balances cease to exist or function. 

 

As to megalomaniac, look no further then Prayuth, who makes Thaksin look like a baby. Like it or not, Thaksin and his allies have consistently been the choice of the Thai electorate, democracy can only work if all participant accept the outcome of elections. Something the other side has consistently refused to do. The political mess that is Thailand is no fault of Thaksin, it is the fault of the people that hated the fact that they did not control Thailand and it's assets anymore, nothing more and nothing less, all the rest is just window dressing.

[bannork]

16 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

so In other words, nothing you bring to table constitutes destroying checks and balances. The press was free during his tenure and at no time did the system of checks and balances cease to exist or function. 

 

As to megalomaniac, look no further then Prayuth, who makes Thaksin look like a baby. Like it or not, Thaksin and his allies have consistently been the choice of the Thai electorate, democracy can only work if all participant accept the outcome of elections. Something the other side has consistently refused to do. The political mess that is Thailand is no fault of Thaksin, it is the fault of the people that hated the fact that they did not control Thailand and it's assets anymore, nothing more and nothing less, all the rest is just window dressing.

The press was not free under Thaksin. As mentioned, media outlets that criticized him lost all government advertising. Journalists were replaced as editors were put under pressure.

The independent organisations were stacked with Thaksin's people.

Democracy is not only elections. It also involves checks and balances to ensure transparency and justice but Thaksin never accepted that. laws were changed to benefit his companies, policy corruption, democracy itself was non existent in his party. Everything depended on Thaksin or his wife, Potjaman.

Offer the peasants a few crumbs, win the election, then they can shut up till the next election.

Reform education, the police, the judiciary? No way under Thaksin, not to his advantage.

 

[sjaak327]

41 minutes ago, bannork said:

The press was not free under Thaksin. As mentioned, media outlets that criticized him lost all government advertising. Journalists were replaced as editors were put under pressure.

The independent organisations were stacked with Thaksin's people.

Democracy is not only elections. It also involves checks and balances to ensure transparency and justice but Thaksin never accepted that. laws were changed to benefit his companies, policy corruption, democracy itself was non existent in his party. Everything depended on Thaksin or his wife, Potjaman.

Offer the peasants a few crumbs, win the election, then they can shut up till the next election.

Reform education, the police, the judiciary? No way under Thaksin, not to his advantage.

 

Regarding your last line, abhisit nor Prayuth did anything in those areas either. Of course reforming the judiciary would not be in Prayuth's interest at all, he just use it to silence his enemies.