Getting Stuck with Thai Registered Car Between Borders Possible on Return?

[dennis123]

Let's say I drive by car to Laos or Cambodia, and apply for a tourist visa that gets most likely rejected.

 

I return with my car, departure from Cambodia or Laos and am stuck in between the two borders kind of.

 

Now let's say the immigration officer refuses me a 30 day exempt (despite having only 1 in my passport from almost two months ago so I imagine he looks at me like a border runner that ran out of tourist visas so it wouldn't surprise me that much if they refuse me.

 

Would my temporarily export document from customs (for the car) still be valid to get my car back into Laos or Cambodia, or would I risk losing my car somehow as Thailand doesn't allow me to get back, and Laos or Cambodia only allows me back, but not my car due to this paper issue?

 

Feel free to speculate, and let's assume the document (valid for 30 days in Cambodia, 14 days in Laos is not expired).

[ubonjoe]

You would not have a problem at Laos border entering visa exempt unless you had more than two of this year. But I see no reason go to through the effort to drive your car into Laos to Vientiane or Savannakhet since the they are both close to the bridges.

Only one crossing from Cambodia makes a problem and that is at Poipet Pet. At any other crossing you would have nothing to worry about.

Not sure what would happen to your car if you had a problem entering Thailand.

[dennis123]

When I take my car with me I can take a lot of my stuff with me, all my clothes, laptops, xbox TV, tools, you name it, so in case they don't let me in I still have all my stuff with me, hence the so specific question if I can just turn around with car included.

 

I never do border runs, only tourist visa runs so that forces me to stay a day or two, or sometimes I stay a week or two, for an exempt there would not even be a need to go to Vientiane right? Cross the border and walk straight back or is it recommended to spend at least a day or two to make it not too obvious?

 

I was also considering to drive to Vang Vieng, find a quiet resort, work a bit, smoke a bit of weed, just very layback, just to get an idea if I could keep up with that for several months. Most affordable resorts don't come with an office chair and desk as I work a lot online, and to sit there all day in the resorts' restaurant during high season is also not really my choice, as I prefer some privacy.

 

Thing with Laos is that I'd be doing immigration runs every month, and border runs to Cambodia mostly I suppose every three months so I kind of weighing my options and I want my car with me, as it's just convenient but it looks ugly as hell so almost impossible to sell, but still a good mileage to go. It's a strange story about my car, a paintjob won't cut it, as a matter of fact two doors would need to be replaced first as the scratches run so deep, plus unexplainable noises near the wheels that no garage was able to identify or fix but loud enough to notice during a test drive, but the engine is still in great shape, and so is the rest so I don't want to dump it just yet.

 

Sihanoukville is somewhat okay but the crime rate puts me off, each time I've been there I got robbed or drugged at some point. Never happened in Pattaya. Guess I have a big target on my back there, plus the abundance of casinos, ain't gonna end well, and in terms of gay life very limited, they have one bar that's empty most of the times, everyone either moves to Phnom Penh or Thailand.

 

If I move further away I have to dump all my stuff, like Vietnam or the Phillippines, Hanoi or Cebu doesn't sound too bad though I've never been there.

 

Everyone says avoid Poipet, next week they might say avoid Vientiane or Savannakhet border, or Had Lek (Cambodia).

 

That was my initial plan, go to Koh Kong for a few days but I don't think they are that easy with visa exempts there, they warned me years ago about that at the border itself (immigration), that I couldn't just return but had to go to PP for a tourist visa and that was at a time when I had zero exempts in my passport (talking about 3 years ago or so). 

[dennis123]

Perhaps I would have more luck at Surin, hadn't thought about that before.

[l4ml4m]

23 hours ago, dennis123 said:

When I take my car with me I can take a lot of my stuff with me, all my clothes, laptops, xbox TV, tools, you name it, so in case they don't let me in I still have all my stuff with me, hence the so specific question if I can just turn around with car included.

 

I never do border runs, only tourist visa runs so that forces me to stay a day or two, or sometimes I stay a week or two, for an exempt there would not even be a need to go to Vientiane right? Cross the border and walk straight back or is it recommended to spend at least a day or two to make it not too obvious?

 

I was also considering to drive to Vang Vieng, find a quiet resort, work a bit, smoke a bit of weed, just very layback, just to get an idea if I could keep up with that for several months. Most affordable resorts don't come with an office chair and desk as I work a lot online, and to sit there all day in the resorts' restaurant during high season is also not really my choice, as I prefer some privacy.

 

Thing with Laos is that I'd be doing immigration runs every month, and border runs to Cambodia mostly I suppose every three months so I kind of weighing my options and I want my car with me, as it's just convenient but it looks ugly as hell so almost impossible to sell, but still a good mileage to go. It's a strange story about my car, a paintjob won't cut it, as a matter of fact two doors would need to be replaced first as the scratches run so deep, plus unexplainable noises near the wheels that no garage was able to identify or fix but loud enough to notice during a test drive, but the engine is still in great shape, and so is the rest so I don't want to dump it just yet.

 

Sihanoukville is somewhat okay but the crime rate puts me off, each time I've been there I got robbed or drugged at some point. Never happened in Pattaya. Guess I have a big target on my back there, plus the abundance of casinos, ain't gonna end well, and in terms of gay life very limited, they have one bar that's empty most of the times, everyone either moves to Phnom Penh or Thailand.

 

If I move further away I have to dump all my stuff, like Vietnam or the Phillippines, Hanoi or Cebu doesn't sound too bad though I've never been there.

 

Everyone says avoid Poipet, next week they might say avoid Vientiane or Savannakhet border, or Had Lek (Cambodia).

 

That was my initial plan, go to Koh Kong for a few days but I don't think they are that easy with visa exempts there, they warned me years ago about that at the border itself (immigration), that I couldn't just return but had to go to PP for a tourist visa and that was at a time when I had zero exempts in my passport (talking about 3 years ago or so). 

 

Koh kong is not a problem for visa exempt, and there is better weed there ????

 

 

[DJ54]

A bit of a bizarre story... ..  make sure they don’t poss test you at the border. Best to be quiet about some....things.

[garyk]

Yea, I used to cross into Cambodia often. Never had a problem.  Got refused at the Malaysian border coming into Thailand. At the time they just started getting strict on the tourist stamps. I had to turn around and go back to Malaysia. Luckily I still had some time on my pickup visa! If not it could of been a hassle for sure. 

What I did was transfer the title of my pickup into my Thai girlfriends name. Since she always travels with me it made it much easier for me.

 

I bought an old pickup and kept it in Thailand, but ran the roads from Cambodia, Thailand, and Malaysia. Great times. Sometimes I miss it terribly. Some of my most fond memories.

Edited November 9, 2018 by garyk

[l4ml4m]

3 hours ago, DJ54 said:

A bit of a bizarre story... ..  make sure they don’t poss test you at the border. Best to be quiet about some....things.

 

They quit checking years ago and haven't done it yet.

 

 

[Time Traveller]

Are you saying you can register a thai car and obtain the car passport on just a tourist visa? 

If you are on an extension of stay it's never a problem getting back into the country if you have a re entry permit.

[garyk]

42 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Are you saying you can register a thai car and obtain the car passport on just a tourist visa? 

 

I did it, no problems what so ever.  If heading into Malaysia. You can only get a one month visa for your pickup. But, I got two months as a tourist. Crazy IMO. One of the reasons I put the truck in my GF's name. She could run it across the border stay a week then back to Malaysia. No problems what so ever. Saved me the hassle of coming back to Thailand, and she could only stay 30 days on a tourist visa so worked great.

 

There is another thread here running taking about the retirement visa letters. Personally I think you could do border runs in Malaysia for ever with no problems. I never had a problem. Easy as pie. I liked Georgetown better than any city in Thailand also.

Edited November 9, 2018 by garyk

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

40 minutes ago, garyk said:

 If heading into Malaysia. You can only get a one month visa for your pickup. But, I got two months as a tourist

Not sure if this is the rule, I drove my car for 3 months in Malaysia this year and bought a 3 month extra insurance for Malaysia at the Sadao border crossing, no problems at all when I returned at the Thai border crossing again. Anyone know what the actual law says about for how long you can go to Malaysia with your car or pick-up? I got the passport book for my car but at the Sadao border they don't even look at it when I give it to them, at the Sungai Kolok border crossing the big boss at the immigration there had never seen this passport book before and called Bangkok and asked what to do!

 

I also like Georgetown better than any Thai city, there is nothing even coming close to Georgetown in Thailand. 

[garyk]

The fine is 1000 baht / day if you take your Thai vehicle across to Malaysian, for over 30 days?

If you stayed 3 months which is what I get on my stamp for a tourist, and did not bring your car back to Thailand for 3 months you are very lucky not to get fined. 

I used to complain about this all the time at the Thai border crossing in Kolok. The Thai's cross the border all the time and it is a common occurrence all along the border? Also the passport for you pickup I do not understand. I got a paper from Thai immigration only. The only time I got a passport for the pickup was for Laos?

 

I tried to show the passport at the Malaysian Thai border, and they did not know what it was. When I first started going across.

 

I am kinda curious, did you go to Thai immigration and get the paper for crossing into Malaysia? Are you saying if you have a passport for your car you can go for 3 months without problems?  Did you have the stickers made and put on your vehicle? 

 

Maybe they have changed the rules? It has been a couple of years since my last hop. So very curious. If so I will head down and spend a leisurely 3 months in Georgetown.. ????

 

How did you like the food in Malaysia? Georgetown has some of the best food I have ever eaten in S.E. Asia IMO.  

Edited November 10, 2018 by garyk

[garyk]

Sorry it was not Thai immigration where I got the letter for my pickup it was the Dept. of transportation.

 

[phuketrichard]

On 11/8/2018 at 4:24 PM, ubonjoe said:

You would not have a problem at Laos border entering visa exempt unless you had more than two of this year. But I see no reason go to through the effort to drive your car into Laos to Vientiane or Savannakhet since the they are both close to the bridges.

Only one crossing from Cambodia makes a problem and that is at Poipet Pet. At any other crossing you would have nothing to worry about.

Not sure what would happen to your car if you had a problem entering Thailand.

LOL:

last year drove into Cambodia via Osmach,  no problem as always

went to Palin to exit and customs ( Camboida) asked for the permission letter for my car to be in Camboida,  told him i had no letter.

He than told me i couldn't leave as Thailand would NOT allow my thai car back into Thailand ( yea ,right)
after 20 minutes he said i could go for $20,I gave him $5 and left, 

Of course no problem entering thailand,other than having to drive around for 20 minutes looking for the Thai customs as they had moved to turn my temp export doc in.
 

Quote

 

Anyone know what the actual law says about for how long you can go to Malaysia with your car or pick-up?

 

Legally the thai temp export is only valid for 30days.

once i took my Thai car into Camboida, ( back in 2008) and stayed 8 months, when i left back to thailand he asked where my temp export doc was and i told him i lost it, we filled out a new one and he dated it that  i left the day before. ????
 

Quote

Also the passport for you pickup I do not understand. I got a paper from Thai immigration only.

 

Thumbs up, Passport ONLY used for entering Laos
I get my letter to drive to malay at the vehicle registration office in Phuket NOT immigration

Edited November 10, 2018 by phuketrichard

[garyk]

24 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

 

Legally the thai temp export is only valid for 30days.

once i took my Thai car into Camboida, ( back in 2008) and stayed 8 months, when i left back to thailand he asked where my temp export doc was and i told him i lost it, we filled out a new one and he dated it that  i left the day before. ????

 

You are a brave sole.. haha   

Cambodia is a piece of cake. I used to go threw and the Cambodia immigration would he haw around then 500, baht and on with the show.

Loved the traffic in Cambodia! First time in I couldn't believe the difference by just crossing a border.

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by garyk

[dennis123]

8 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Are you saying you can register a thai car and obtain the car passport on just a tourist visa? 

If you are on an extension of stay it's never a problem getting back into the country if you have a re entry permit.

I had an ED visa when we transferred the car to my name.

 

I think it's not even possible to sell the car on a tourist visa.

[dennis123]

2 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

last year drove into Cambodia via Osmach,  no problem as always

went to Palin to exit and customs ( Camboida) asked for the permission letter for my car to be in Camboida,  told him i had no letter.

He than told me i couldn't leave as Thailand would NOT allow my thai car back into Thailand ( yea ,right)
after 20 minutes he said i could go for $20,I gave him $5 and left, 

Of course no problem entering thailand,other than having to drive around for 20 minutes looking for the Thai customs as they had moved to turn my temp export doc in.

13

For me it's been 1.5 years ago that I went to Cambodia by car but at Had Lek / Koh Kong they want to keep my blue car book so that would make it impossible to go out at any other border, they also say you can't leave Koh Kong province, lmao, I always drive to PP or where ever I want.

 

No asking for the blue registration book or did you refuse to give it?

[dennis123]

Also in Laos the car is only allowed for 14 days right, isn't it possible to get an extension for that? I want to spend a month in Vang Vieng because I have friends coming end Jan / start Feb, so with my 60 day exempt I might just make it if I stay a little longer in Laos.

 

We always love to drink a lot and can't imagine I have to do a visa trip then ????

[phuketrichard]

been driving every year into Cambodia since 2006

last trip was this past july/august

Road between Kep and Koh Kong was so potholed in early August, i thought i would have my little civic swallowed up  LoL

[phuketrichard]

laos will extend the 2 weeks ,adding on 2 weeks more, did it in Luang Prabang

 

I ONLY enter at kk when i am ONLY traveling to kep and returning to Kk border

if i am planing on exiting elsewhere, will enter at Osmach

 

I exited in August at KK and as i didn't enter there but at osmach and if u enter there they charge you 100 baht/day i had to pay 2,000 baht to be allowed to exit,

otherwise he told me to leave from another border.

What ya going to do>>>>

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

7 hours ago, garyk said:

The fine is 1000 baht / day if you take your Thai vehicle across to Malaysian, for over 30 days?

If you stayed 3 months which is what I get on my stamp for a tourist, and did not bring your car back to Thailand for 3 months you are very lucky not to get fined. 

I used to complain about this all the time at the Thai border crossing in Kolok. The Thai's cross the border all the time and it is a common occurrence all along the border? Also the passport for you pickup I do not understand. I got a paper from Thai immigration only. The only time I got a passport for the pickup was for Laos?

 

I tried to show the passport at the Malaysian Thai border, and they did not know what it was. When I first started going across.

 

I am kinda curious, did you go to Thai immigration and get the paper for crossing into Malaysia? Are you saying if you have a passport for your car you can go for 3 months without problems?  Did you have the stickers made and put on your vehicle? 

 

Maybe they have changed the rules? It has been a couple of years since my last hop. So very curious. If so I will head down and spend a leisurely 3 months in Georgetown.. ????

 

How did you like the food in Malaysia? Georgetown has some of the best food I have ever eaten in S.E. Asia IMO.  

From where did you got 1000 Baht fine per day if staying in Malaysia for more than 30 days? Never got any info regarding this the last 3 years at both the Sadao and Sungai Kolok crossings. 

 

I got the pink passport for both my SUV and my Pick-up and have showed them to the immigration officer when departing, they just give it back to me without stamping it. I get the departure documents every time but nobody want to see it when I return. There is a warning I have seen that says: if you don't fill in the arrival document for the car you can get fined max 10.000 THB, no warning regarding 1000 THB per day if more than 30 days (I read Thai and could not see it in Thai language either) I got the English language number plates I screw on when coming to the border, than you don't need to put the registration number stickers on the car, and I also got a white "T" sticker on the rear window.

 

I love the food in Malaysia and Penang got the best food in the country, think its better than in Thailand, another thing is that the traffic much better (not perfect but day and night compared to the Thai traffic) and you actually feel welcome when you meet their immigration officials and no silly questions asked like you often get when arriving in Thailand.

[dennis123]

1 hour ago, phuketrichard said:

laos will extend the 2 weeks ,adding on 2 weeks more, did it in Luang Prabang

 

I ONLY enter at kk when i am ONLY traveling to kep and returning to Kk border

if i am planing on exiting elsewhere, will enter at Osmach

 

I exited in August at KK and as i didn't enter there but at osmach and if u enter there they charge you 100 baht/day i had to pay 2,000 baht to be allowed to exit,

otherwise he told me to leave from another border.

What ya going to do>>>>

Isn't the 2 week stamp printed on the customs document that the Thais provide? So if you extend it in Luang Prabang they don't touch that document and then the Thais can still fine me 1000 baht/day (max 10k) for overstay car right?

[garyk]

1 hour ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

From where did you got 1000 Baht fine per day if staying in Malaysia for more than 30 days? Never got any info regarding this the last 3 years at both the Sadao and Sungai Kolok crossings. 

 

I got the pink passport for both my SUV and my Pick-up and have showed them to the immigration officer when departing, they just give it back to me without stamping it. I get the departure documents every time but nobody want to see it when I return. There is a warning I have seen that says: if you don't fill in the arrival document for the car you can get fined max 10.000 THB, no warning regarding 1000 THB per day if more than 30 days (I read Thai and could not see it in Thai language either) I got the English language number plates I screw on when coming to the border, than you don't need to put the registration number stickers on the car, and I also got a white "T" sticker on the rear window.

 

I love the food in Malaysia and Penang got the best food in the country, think its better than in Thailand, another thing is that the traffic much better (not perfect but day and night compared to the Thai traffic) and you actually feel welcome when you meet their immigration officials and no silly questions asked like you often get when arriving in Thailand.

  I was told that by the Thai immigration at the border crossing?  They also told me that 30 days on the vehicle coming from Thailand was all I was able to get, period.  So I am a bit baffled, next time down there I am going to get them to show it to me. I used to get upset every time I had to come across for my pickup, it was a pain in the neck. So good to know. I don't read Thai but speak enough to get by. 

Every single time I come back from Malaysia I go to immigration and get the paperwork done to show my pickup is back in Thailand? 

So you are saying you go into Thai immigration and get your paper work straightened out,  after you have been in Malaysia for 3 months nothing is said?  That goes against everything I have been told. I am a bit miffed!   haha

 

Yea, I love it there also. I have been thinking about heading that way. Cameron highlands, Frasier's Hill. The parks there do not double price like in Thailand. The only thing I don't like are the guest house's. Thailand has a head start on them in that area IMO. Thailand has some great hotels. 

I could easily live there full time.

Edited November 10, 2018 by garyk

[garyk]

Forgot about the traffic! I have been stuck in holiday traffic in Malaysia that was the worst I have ever been in. It was hours on end. The small highways were a parking lot, it was beyond bad. I learned to check the holiday schedule before heading out in Malaysia. But, in general I agree.

 

The food in Penang is world class. That alone has gotten me to head that way more than once over the years.

 

Regards

 

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

29 minutes ago, garyk said:

  I was told that by the Thai immigration at the border crossing?  They also told me that 30 days on the vehicle coming from Thailand was all I was able to get, period.  So I am a bit baffled, next time down there I am going to get them to show it to me. I used to get upset every time I had to come across for my pickup, it was a pain in the neck. So good to know. I don't read Thai but speak enough to get by. 

Every single time I come back from Malaysia I go to immigration and get the paperwork done to show my pickup is back in Thailand? 

So you are saying you go into Thai immigration and get your paper work straightened out,  after you have been in Malaysia for 3 months nothing is said?  That goes against everything I have been told. I am a bit miffed!   haha

 

Yea, I love it there also. I have been thinking about heading that way. Cameron highlands, Frasier's Hill. The parks there do not double price like in Thailand. The only thing I don't like are the guest house's. Thailand has a head start on them in that area IMO. Thailand has some great hotels. 

I could easily live there full time.

I have never been told by immigration at the border that the max time in Malaysia is 30 days for the car, but who knows there are so many rules and made up rules in this country. There are many excellent and inexpensive homestays all around Malaysia, better than guesthouses. Hotel rates are similar to Thailand for 3-5 star hotels. Food is cheaper, for example a Burger King Whopper cheese meal in Thailand is around 200 THB in Malaysia 110 THB, beer cost more but wine is cheaper and if you buy in the duty free shop on Langkawi island, a 1 liter bottle of Jonnie Walker red is 38 Ringit ( 300 THB) and a Chang beer can is 2.5 Ringit (20 THB !!! and it comes from Thailand) Tioman Island is another great place and also tax free alcohol and it is still in pristine condition even after having tourist business longer than Phuket. You don't find the xenophobia against foreigners in Malaysia as you often find in Thailand and you can own a small company there to 100% as foreigner and no two-tier pricing either. 

[garyk]

6 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

I have never been told by immigration at the border that the max time in Malaysia is 30 days for the car, but who knows there are so many rules and made up rules in this country. There are many excellent and inexpensive homestays all around Malaysia, better than guesthouses. Hotel rates are similar to Thailand for 3-5 star hotels. Food is cheaper, for example a Burger King Whopper cheese meal in Thailand is around 200 THB in Malaysia 110 THB, beer cost more but wine is cheaper and if you buy in the duty free shop on Langkawi island, a 1 liter bottle of Jonnie Walker red is 38 Ringit ( 300 THB) and a Chang beer can is 2.5 Ringit (20 THB !!! and it comes from Thailand) Tioman Island is another great place and also tax free alcohol and it is still in pristine condition even after having tourist business longer than Phuket. You don't find the xenophobia against foreigners in Malaysia as you often find in Thailand and you can own a small company there to 100% as foreigner and no two-tier pricing either. 

Haha, yes the prices are great. I have stayed at a few home stays and liked them much better than the hotels in the small cities.  My hobby is birding and I ran the roads there for a few months each year. For about two or three years. 

Been meaning to go to the islands. I think that is my next trip. Interesting, I was talking to my travel partner here about two weeks ago. And, suggested we head down to Malaysia and check out the islands. 

Yep, the beaches there are so nice. 

 

The only time I have to get out of Malaysia is when Indonesia does there annual burn off. The air quality in Malaysia is the worst I have ever seen. I thought Thailand was bad. It takes a distant second to Malaysia. I was chocking to death.

 

IMO Malaysia is WAY under rated.

 

Back to the vehicle visa, I am going to call a friend, that hopefully has a copy of the paper I filled out in Thailand for the vehicle. If I cannot get a copy I will copy it next time I am threw Kolok. Heading into Malaysia.

 

Have a great evening, Regards 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

23 minutes ago, garyk said:

Haha, yes the prices are great. I have stayed at a few home stays and liked them much better than the hotels in the small cities.  My hobby is birding and I ran the roads there for a few months each year. For about two or three years. 

Been meaning to go to the islands. I think that is my next trip. Interesting, I was talking to my travel partner here about two weeks ago. And, suggested we head down to Malaysia and check out the islands. 

Yep, the beaches there are so nice. 

 

The only time I have to get out of Malaysia is when Indonesia does there annual burn off. The air quality in Malaysia is the worst I have ever seen. I thought Thailand was bad. It takes a distant second to Malaysia. I was chocking to death.

 

IMO Malaysia is WAY under rated.

 

Back to the vehicle visa, I am going to call a friend, that hopefully has a copy of the paper I filled out in Thailand for the vehicle. If I cannot get a copy I will copy it next time I am threw Kolok. Heading into Malaysia.

 

Have a great evening, Regards 

I just came back from Malaysia and this year there was no smell from the forest fires on Sumatera Island like there was 3-4 years ago, maybe no more rainforest to burn down? The islands on the east coast are very nice. Yes I think Malaysia is underrated mostly because it's muslim, but I have never had any problems with the muslims there and the Chinese, Indians and muslims seems to be accepting each other.  

[garyk]

1 minute ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

I just came back from Malaysia and this year there was no smell from the forest fires on Sumatera Island like there was 3-4 years ago, maybe no more rainforest to burn down? The islands on the east coast are very nice. Yes I think Malaysia is underrated mostly because it's muslim, but I have never had any problems with the muslims there and the Chinese, Indians and muslims seems to be accepting each other.  

Interesting about the burn off, I will google it. The Malaysian government made a big stink about it. Which was warranted. If it is under control then it will be so much better. I had to leave Malaysia twice because of it.

 

I got sick, and had to go back to America and get sorted out. So, I am just getting back to this part of the world. I have really missed Malaysia, not Thailand, haha.

 

Same here, never a problem with the Muslims at all. As a matter of fact in one of the home stays I used to eat supper with the guys and had a pretty good time. Lots of Indian folks there... Love the curry's and Indian food.. so good.

 

I know a guy in Fraziers Hill that is Chinese and he complains quit a bit about the political situation and the way the Chinese are treated? So not sure about that. He explained it to me. Seems the Malaysian people discriminate against the Chinese descent people. But, I am not political what so ever so? And only have his word on the situation.

 

Later, Gary