Buy condo directly fron owner. What to ask ? What can go wrong ?

[KittenKong]

22 minutes ago, coollife99 said:

i guess the building name and uniot floor and condo numer is writed on the chanote no ? ( in Thai at least )

Condo numbers take this form: xxx/yyy where xxx is the building number and yyy is the unit number. It is written in digits on the chanote. The floor number is not mentioned and the street name etc is written in Thai.  On the same page you also have a proper plan of the unit, with full measurements.

 

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

I’m aware that freehold in the Uk means you also own the land but here it’s different. As you probably know the only way most foreigners can own land is to basically skirt the law which personally I’d never do.

A freehold condo means you own the condo for as long as the building stands. Leasehold  condos are quite rare as far as I know except in Bangkok when they’re built on Royal land like Rajdamri or Langsuan. Also in some areas like Pattaya where the foreign quota is exceeded and therefore has to be in a Thai name and leased for 30 years which again I’d never consider. From my point of view if it’s not MY name on the title deed I’m not interested  

     Most of your information is correct except the last part.  To recap:       Thais and foreigners can both buy leased and freehold condos.  Condos on leased land have a set expiration date on the leased land; although some will have a certain number of renewals, like 2 lease renewals of 30 years each, for example.   Like you, I would never buy a condo on leased land.        

      With freehold condos, the condo project owns the land, with each condo owner having a share and, as Kittenkong stated, if the condo is torn down a foreign owner would still own a share of the land and a share of the money the land brings if it is sold.  

      Where your information is incorrect is with a foreigner buying a condo under Thai quota.  Buying in Thai quota when the foreign quota is filled is not leasing and there is not a 30 year lease involved.  

[Fairynuff]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

     Most of your information is correct except the last part.  To recap:       Thais and foreigners can both buy leased and freehold condos.  Condos on leased land have a set expiration date on the leased land; although some will have a certain number of renewals, like 2 lease renewals of 30 years each, for example.   Like you, I would never buy a condo on leased land.        

      With freehold condos, the condo project owns the land, with each condo owner having a share and, as Kittenkong stated, if the condo is torn down a foreign owner would still own a share of the land and a share of the money the land brings if it is sold.  

      Where your information is incorrect is with a foreigner buying a condo under Thai quota.  Buying in Thai quota when the foreign quota is filled is not leasing and there is not a 30 year lease involved.  

Thanks for that. I’ve never looked into the quota aspect both for the reason I gave and for the reason that the places that seem to exceed quotas aren’t places I’d be buying a condo anyway.

[KKr]

19 hours ago, newnative said:

     Most of your information is correct except the last part.  To recap:       Thais and foreigners can both buy leased and freehold condos.  Condos on leased land have a set expiration date on the leased land; although some will have a certain number of renewals, like 2 lease renewals of 30 years each, for example.   Like you, I would never buy a condo on leased land.        

      With freehold condos, the condo project owns the land, with each condo owner having a share and, as Kittenkong stated, if the condo is torn down a foreign owner would still own a share of the land and a share of the money the land brings if it is sold.  

      Where your information is incorrect is with a foreigner buying a condo under Thai quota.  Buying in Thai quota when the foreign quota is filled is not leasing and there is not a 30 year lease involved.  

the formal owner of the complex is locally called the "juristic person" what is the equivalent of the owner's association.
Hence, foreigners can own the right to use a certain unit, and the common areas but are limited to 49 % of ownership.

From the description in the beginning, I had the impression that it is a new development.
Beware of the following:
(A) the Building Unit number is NOT necessarily the same as the Condo Unit Number allocated at the landoffice after the permission to use has been given.
(B) In case you go on your own, i.e. without a Lawyer or a reputable Real Estate Agent (facilitating the transfer should be about 10 - 15.000 Baht) , and cannot read Thai and/or are not knowledgeable in Thai Rules and Regulations, you may be getting yourself in trouble.
What if you were buying from a seller who bought off-plan (what as far as I can remember is not registered at the land-office, only much later when the building is commissioned) , but in effect are speaking to a representative who may or may not have a valid PoA ?

Good luck. 

[coollife99]

2 hours ago, KKr said:

the formal owner of the complex is locally called the "juristic person" what is the equivalent of the owner's association.
Hence, foreigners can own the right to use a certain unit, and the common areas but are limited to 49 % of ownership.

From the description in the beginning, I had the impression that it is a new development.
Beware of the following:
(A) the Building Unit number is NOT necessarily the same as the Condo Unit Number allocated at the landoffice after the permission to use has been given.
(B) In case you go on your own, i.e. without a Lawyer or a reputable Real Estate Agent (facilitating the transfer should be about 10 - 15.000 Baht) , and cannot read Thai and/or are not knowledgeable in Thai Rules and Regulations, you may be getting yourself in trouble.
What if you were buying from a seller who bought off-plan (what as far as I can remember is not registered at the land-office, only much later when the building is commissioned) , but in effect are speaking to a representative who may or may not have a valid PoA ?

Good luck. 

its a condo in a big devellopement in Phuket who is already build since many years. 

finaly i will buy one who is own now by a Thai person,  the agent told me it can be transfered into Freehold at my own name.

as i understand its possible if 49% only is now owned by foreigner quota. any idea about how to be sure of that ?

[KKr]

49 minutes ago, coollife99 said:

its a condo in a big devellopement in Phuket who is already build since many years. 

finaly i will buy one who is own now by a Thai person,  the agent told me it can be transfered into Freehold at my own name.

as i understand its possible if 49% only is now owned by foreigner quota. any idea about how to be sure of that ?

get a letter from the Juristic Person stating the number of non-Thai vs Thai owners for the Land office..
they need to give the other statements mentioned earlier regarding outstanding dues anyway for the LandOffice.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, coollife99 said:

its a condo in a big devellopement in Phuket who is already build since many years. 

finaly i will buy one who is own now by a Thai person,  the agent told me it can be transfered into Freehold at my own name.

as i understand its possible if 49% only is now owned by foreigner quota. any idea about how to be sure of that ?

Just ask the Juristic Person Manager what the current ratio is in the building. You can contact the JPM through the building office. You dont need a letter for that now (there is a fee for issuing the letter) but the JPM will have to provide a letter later to the vendor for the sale to go through. The vendor pays for this. All you need now is verification. I covered this in my original comment last week.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1067313-buy-condo-directly-fron-owner-what-to-ask-what-can-go-wrong/?do=findComment&comment=13544271

 

If, on the day of the transfer, the sale would put the farang ratio above 49% then the Land Office simply wont do the transfer. The vendor and his agent are surely aware of this.

[newnative]

10 hours ago, coollife99 said:

its a condo in a big devellopement in Phuket who is already build since many years. 

finaly i will buy one who is own now by a Thai person,  the agent told me it can be transfered into Freehold at my own name.

as i understand its possible if 49% only is now owned by foreigner quota. any idea about how to be sure of that ?

You are mixing up freehold and foreign quota; they are two different things.  With freehold, the condo project owns the land. It's not something you change at the Land Office. Foreign quota is the percentage of a condo project that can be owned by foreigners.  If your project still has foreign quota available--something you need to check first before signing a contract--then you can change the condo you are buying from Thai quota to foreign quota at the condo sale at the land office.

[coollife99]

17 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

 

If, on the day of the transfer, the sale would put the farang ratio above 49% then the Land Office simply wont do the transfer. The vendor and his agent are surely aware of this.

So thats mean there is NO way to be cheated about this ? just the Land office will not validate the sell right ?

 

8 hours ago, newnative said:

You are mixing up freehold and foreign quota; they are two different things.  With freehold, the condo project owns the land. It's not something you change at the Land Office. Foreign quota is the percentage of a condo project that can be owned by foreigners.  If your project still has foreign quota available--something you need to check first before signing a contract--then you can change the condo you are buying from Thai quota to foreign quota at the condo sale at the land office.

now im bit lost, i want the condo under my name, as foreigner, 

[newnative]

12 minutes ago, coollife99 said:

So thats mean there is NO way to be cheated about this ? just the Land office will not validate the sell right ?

 

now im bit lost, i want the condo under my name, as foreigner, 

   As long as the condo project has foreign quota still available, you can buy the condo under your name as a foreigner.  As others have said, check with the Juristic office at the condo to see if foreign quota is still available.  Remember to ask about foreign quota and not freehold--they are two completely different things.  If you have a sales contract, you can have a clause in the contract that voids the sale if, for any reason, foreign quota turns out to not be available.

[KittenKong]

41 minutes ago, coollife99 said:

So thats mean there is NO way to be cheated about this ? just the Land office will not validate the sell right ?

Technically they wont do it. But they do rely on the document sent by the JPM to calculate the current ratio. JPMs have been known to lie and to make mistakes and there have been instances of the ratio going above 49% in some buildings. That opens a can of worms.

 

Your best bet is to find out the current ratio now. If it is well below 49% there should be no problems. If it is very close to 49%, look closer.

[Pattaya46]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:08 PM, KittenKong said:

Condo numbers take this form: xxx/yyy (). It is written in digits on the chanote. The floor number is not mentioned and the street name etc is written in Thai.

The floor number IS on the chanote too, just below the unit number (top right of chanote)

 

16 hours ago, newnative said:

// If you have a sales contract, you can have a clause in the contract that voids the sale if, for any reason, foreign quota turns out to not be available.

There was one in my contract, but it's rather useless as if the foreign quota is "full", the Land Office will not allow the sale anyway.

[coollife99]

Thanks a lot to KittenKong, Pattaya46, newnative and all others who give me very interesting and usefull information. i will follow your tips and ty to buy it smoothely

[stud858]

Hold onto the bank cheque (avoid dealing cash) until you get the chanot handed to you showing your name on the back as the owner.

 

Very hard to be scammed that way.  The land office go through a process that stops silly things happening. 

 

Only way to lose is if you hand over deposits and have not made sure who the actual owner is by sighting ID and chanot title deed.

 

Make sure money comes from your home country in your home countries currency. Otherwise bank will not give you required paperwork.

 

Settle the amount including who is paying the tax, usually half each.

Grab the keys, change the locks then enjoy your new condo. 

Good luck.