Thailand Demands Telecom, Satellites Back From Singapore

[blaze]

Clipped

Reverted to the pre-97 constitution?

I thought they were without a constitution now?

if you could undrstand the thai language, they clearly stated in the thai language during the media blackout, that the constitution prior to the 1997 constitution, would be used while a new one was being drafted.

Who clearly stated this during what media blackout? And how do you know what was stated if the statement was made during a media blackout? I'm sorry Clipped- I just really can't understand what you are talking about. You claim that:

"dont forget thaksin was the one that initiated the REWRITING of the ORIGINAL constitution " I assume you are referring to the 1997 constitution and not the original one (1932)

Then: "you dont realize that he rewrote the constitution?... "

Then: "and i am sure that he being the prime minister at the time, is the one that gave the green light" (so I can be excused for thinking that you are referring to some post 2001 rewriting of the constitution)

Then: " he was deputy prime minister at the time"

Which takes us back to the period when the final draft of the constitution was submitted to the government (and, correct me if I'm wrong, the day that Taksin became deputy- PM).

The articles you provide make no mention at all of the rewriting of any constitution. Let alone any ammendments made since Taksin became PM.

I'm not questioning what you say Clipped- I just don't understand it.

Though I was here in 97, I confess to not having followed the develpment of the constitution as closely as you have- and therefore would sincerely appreciate a credible source that delineates Taksin's role in the development of the 97 constitution.

Sincerely...

Edited February 23, 2007 by blaze

[Clipped]

Because its not the Thai army's satellites.. They belonged to a private company !!!

Like all communication concessions in Thailand, the ShinSat concession is under a Build,Transfer,Operate system(BTO)

This means that the private company Builds (or commissions) a satellite, it then Transfers ownership of the satellites to the state, and in return the state grants the concession holder the right to Operate the equipment for a period of time (In return for a percentage of all income, regardless of whether the company actually makes a profit or loss).

yes...but not quite. my understanding is that large assets such as satellites which operate on a BTO, BOT, BOOT, etc basis, use a sort of structured finance involving national export credit agencies which have a first right to the asset cashflow. for example, France, which has a major industry in making satellites, may spend a total of say 1 billion dollars to make the satellite, the French export credit agency, which wants to sustain the industry and promote its products overseas, actually pays the industry upfront so that engineers and scientists and workers get their wages and not have to worry about the end buyer paying up for the satellite. the agency then turns around and arranges very complicated legal and financial terms with the project sponsor (in this case most likely Shin sat the concession holder) to ensure that they get the 1 billion dollars back plus interest over the economic life of the satellite (normally corresponding the to concession period). national export agencies are naturally interested in dealing with very secure counterparties that can virtually guarantee the payment over the concession period. in exchange, they offer interest rates that are normally very competitive, eg libor plus 100+ bp. since these are in effect long term, fixed income loans, the credit agencies want assurances that the operator is exprienced and capable of generating the income stream, and they may (under limited recourse arrangments) additionally request the owner (more specifically the 'sponsor') to underwrite any shortfall in the income. the sponsor may also in turn ask the government granting the concession to provide a soveriegn undertaking if they are also one of the users of the satellite. for these types of financing, the point on who actually 'owns' the asset becomes moot since it is intricately tied up in a whole chain of interdependent claims and performance obligations. even if the government is the legal owner, the highest claim to the asset is probably the credit agencies. the most important party to them is actually the concession holder because it is the party responsible to produce the income stream that makes the entire undertaking feasible. if the concession terms change or anything happens to undermine the risk profile, the interest rate coming from the lender will change and severly affect the commercial side. the lender may even exercise a call on the loan or reclaim the asset (or specific rights to the asset) before any military government can do anything. the international courts will be on the lenders' side. because these deals are so complicating, you can see why when a general says he wants to take back the asset, it causes a lot of confusion, not just because of whether he intends to pay for it, but the entire premise or backdrop of the original deal changes.

whats up dude, nice post.

take a look at this link on the actual shinsat website called thaicom.com....scroll down to point number 5 , this is a copy and paste:

5. Does SATTEL use its satellites as collateral on loans?

No. All the satellites under the concession belong to the Thai government. For the loans guaranteed by the US EXIM and others, no collateral was required or offered.

http://www.thaicom.net/IR/pages/faq.aspx

this was taken directly off shinsats webpage .... further help analyzing this would be helpful.

also point 4 in the next section , same page: copy and paste:

4.What type of concession does SATTEL have and will you convert it to a license?

On September 11, 1991, the Ministry of Transport and Communications (now the Ministry of Information, Communications, Technology or MICT) granted the company a 30-year Build-Transfer-Operate concession. The Company transferred its assets after construction to the state, including satellites and related equipment, and received the sole right to operate them. The Company amortizes that right, as shown in the notes regarding Cash Flows from Operating Activities, in the financial statements.

Under the concession, SATTEL pays the MITC an agreed percentage of annual gross revenue earned from the transponder business, or a minimum remuneration, whichever is higher. The recvenue share increases incrementally over the period of the concession. To September 11, 2001 for instance, revenue sharing was at 10.5 per cent. After that date it rose to 15.5 per cent.

In 2000, the Company began discussions with the Thai Government with the aim of converting the concession to a license. This process seeks to achieve a level playing field for the company and future competitors as envisioned under the Thai Constitution The Thai Government intends to complete liberalization within the timeframe agreed with the World Trade Organization(WTO) as part of the process of complete liberalization in 2006. The negotiations were continuing at end of 2002. TABLE

i guess a good question is whether the loans have been paid off yet?

[Clipped]

blaze, the military is not considered media...they were on air by radio and tv, setting out the preliminary points to be followed...as for who said it, hel_l, i dont know what some guy on the radio looks like.

yes i meant the 1997 constitution, i figured it would be common sense to think of the 1997, my bad, shouldve been clearer...i really didnt think anyone would consider the 1932 constitution, which was soooooo old.

around 1997 banharn silpa archa (or was it chuan leekpai?) , received a no confidence vote...without a prime minister, thaksin shinawatra was asked to be advisor ,aka deputy prime minister.

with the thai economy in peril around 1996-97, the thai members of parliament looked to thaksin for advice as he was the richest man in thailand at the time,and seemed the most fit for the job.

with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution.

all appeared good for a while as exports started rising, but what alot of people seem to forget is, a weak exchange rate gives foreign buyers more bang for the buck, and in essence the weak baht is what escalated exports... thaksin has a habit of performing when he knows things will make him look good...

blaze just please take the time to do some of your own research, i really really really dont feel like feeding it to you with a spoon.

best regards

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

Edited February 23, 2007 by Clipped

[slimdog]

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

Constitution of the Kingdom Thailand (2540)

Section 63.

No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of the State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.

In the case where a person or a political party has committed the act under paragraph one, the person knowing of such act shall have the right to request the Prosecutor General to investigate its facts and submit a motion to the Constitutional Court for ordering cessation of such act without, however, prejudice to the institution of a criminal action against such person.

In the case where the Constitutional Court makes a decision compelling the political party to cease to commit the act under paragraph two, the Constitutional Court may order the dissolution of such political party.

source:http://www.krisdika.go.th/lawHtmStaticContent01.jsp?frm=tmp&page=eng&lawType=law1&lawCode=%c306&lawID=%c306-10-2540-a0001

[Sing_Sling]

why are some of you so opposed to the thai army keeping the integrity of its communications system unbreeched?

what is wrong with that? do you expect thailand to just sit back and say, "Oh no problem we trust you...just make sure you dont dial into so and so channel...because thats our military channels with very confidential info."

im sure most of you would be equally disgruntled if the operator at your condo was listening in on your conversations.

hypnocrits

You still don't get it, do you "Clipped"...I think your mentality is at par with Sonthi and company.

I had spent much time and money in Thailand buying houses, cars etc etc etc for my Thai g/f, can someone or maybe "Clipped" can advise me how to get all back.....

to compare the purchase of a house and car which you probably bought for a girl of questionable character....is a pale comparison to the importance of a national satellite system which is of utmost importance to national security...

"Clipped" is the slang for a distorted waveform with a square plateau....so yes i know a thing or two about communications...i know even more about buying a house or car for a girl that is suspect...

check yourself

well golly sing sling..in this post here it clearly states you have a thai girlfriend....

your post should be between pages 19-20, but they seemed to have conveniently disappeared....its a pretty low move to actually go back and delete your own post....heck i didnt even know you could do that...

have a nice day...

I think you are making a mistake, the poster you are referring to is 'Chuang' . . .

Definitely no girlfriend and definitely happily married.

I'll not stoop to the 'golly golly' stages and just leave it at that.

(You are right, however, I don't think it is possible to edit posts that have reached a certain age)

[Clipped]

whatever...the post still dissapeared

if it wasnt you, my apologies...(but i still think it was you ...LOL)

[Sing_Sling]

And you would be wrong . . . again . . .

[Bruce1]

So, if the Thai Government already owns the satellites, what does the general want to get back?

Does he mean he wants to cancel Temasek's purchase of Shin?

[nick2k]

blaze, the military is not considered media...they were on air by radio and tv, setting out the preliminary points to be followed...as for who said it, hel_l, i dont know what some guy on the radio looks like.

yes i meant the 1997 constitution, i figured it would be common sense to think of the 1997, my bad, shouldve been clearer...i really didnt think anyone would consider the 1932 constitution, which was soooooo old.

around 1997 banharn silpa archa (or was it chuan leekpai?) , received a no confidence vote...without a prime minister, thaksin shinawatra was asked to be advisor ,aka deputy prime minister.

with the thai economy in peril around 1996-97, the thai members of parliament looked to thaksin for advice as he was the richest man in thailand at the time,and seemed the most fit for the job.

with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution.

all appeared good for a while as exports started rising, but what alot of people seem to forget is, a weak exchange rate gives foreign buyers more bang for the buck, and in essence the weak baht is what escalated exports... thaksin has a habit of performing when he knows things will make him look good...

blaze just please take the time to do some of your own research, i really really really dont feel like feeding it to you with a spoon.

best regards

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

the way you talk. it seems like you are implying that all thais other than thaksin are buffoons. ..robots with no will of their own other than their loyalty to money. other people who are crooks cannot be held to blame because they were just servants.

it's thaksin, and ONLY THAKSIN that is to blame for all the ails of thailand.

all the other people in the government including the members of the democrat party are just innocent bystanders to the whole process of government. if they took bribes from thaksin, they are excused because they are just pawns in the whole scheme of things.

...."if he didn't offer me the bribe, I wouldn't have taken it." or better yet, "if he wasn't in the way of my gun, he would not be dead."

..IT'S THAKSIN FAULT!!!!!

this is the feeling I get from your posting.

[blaze]

blaze, the military is not considered media...they were on air by radio and tv, setting out the preliminary points to be followed...as for who said it, hel_l, i dont know what some guy on the radio looks like.

yes i meant the 1997 constitution, i figured it would be common sense to think of the 1997, my bad, shouldve been clearer...i really didnt think anyone would consider the 1932 constitution, which was soooooo old.

around 1997 banharn silpa archa (or was it chuan leekpai?) , received a no confidence vote...without a prime minister, thaksin shinawatra was asked to be advisor ,aka deputy prime minister.

with the thai economy in peril around 1996-97, the thai members of parliament looked to thaksin for advice as he was the richest man in thailand at the time,and seemed the most fit for the job.

with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution.

all appeared good for a while as exports started rising, but what alot of people seem to forget is, a weak exchange rate gives foreign buyers more bang for the buck, and in essence the weak baht is what escalated exports... thaksin has a habit of performing when he knows things will make him look good...

blaze just please take the time to do some of your own research, i really really really dont feel like feeding it to you with a spoon.

best regards

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

"with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution."

Unless he was on the drafting committee, his only formal role would have been, as Dep PM to PM Chavalit, to either encourage or discourage ratification of the draft. (The landslide vote in parliament to ratify the draft would suggest that he supported it).

You have said that Taksin initiated the re-writing of the constitution. It was not re-written- at Taksin's urging or any body elses.

Moreover, it begs the question:

what relevence do insights into international business have on the development of the constitution? The constitution has no effect on fiscal policy.

Regarding the reasons for tearing up the constitution by the junta- surely you know the reason for that- under the 97 constitution, those who seized the government could have faced very serious criminal charges.

If I am mistaken in anything I have said here, please provide me with a link that will correct my misunderstandings- but please, before you do so, read the info on the link first (since your previous two links did nothing to support your allegations)

Edited February 24, 2007 by blaze

[chuang]

'Clipped'...quote.. you probably bought for a girl of questionable character....

It is sad to say you refer all Thai women as 'questionable character'... you are so dehumanizing..

You know how many forum readers here have Thai girlfriends/wives....

You still don't get it, do you......

[Mid]

Surayud vows hands off Shin satellites

(BangkokPost.com)

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont told the Malaysian news agency Bernama that the Thai government would not interfere in Shin Satellite or attempt to buy the company back from Singapore.

[Bottlerocket]

Temasek should sell it all to another foreign company. That'd show 'em.

[slimdog]

Satellite purchase a private sector concern :Thai PM

BANGKOK, Feb 24 (TNA) – Expressing a cool reserve in the face of a flurry of patriotic fervour from several sectors demanding that Thailand regain its so-called lost national heritage satellites, Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont is demonstrating pragmatism and resolution under fire: let business be business.

Thailand's four satellites passed into Singapore business control in January last year with the sale of Shin Corp shares owned by the family of since-deposed Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra to Temasek Holdings, a Singapore's investment agency.

In recent days a spectrum of Thai public figures – including coup leader Gen. Sonthi Boonyaratkalin himself – have come out with strong calls appealing to Thais deep sense of patriotism. Perhaps following the lead of Gen. Sonthi, whose Council for National Security installed Gen. Surayud as prime minister, many voices joined the chorus calling to retrieve the so-called national assets, but Gen. Surayud appears to have decided that the matter is not a matter of national urgency.

In an interview with Malaysia's official Bernama news agency here on Friday, Gen Surayud that it would be left to Thai companies to evaluate whether it would be beneficial for them to do so.

"If they want to buy, let them buy in the exchange market. We are not going to get involved. If they want to take a risk, that's fine. They have to make their own estimations of the risk assessment whether it will be beneficial for them or not," he was quoted as saying.

The Bernama's report characterised Prime Minister Surayud as saying "the relationship between Thailand and Singapore was still the same despite the fact that a lot of suggestions and concerns had surfaced of late."

"There have been a lot of suggestions, a lot of concerns over various things but for the (Thai) government we still stick to our fundamental policy in foreign relations. I can assure you I don't see any conflict at the national level at the moment," he reportedly said to Bernama.

Meanwhile, Agence France-Presse (AFP) news agency reported Singapore's Foreign Minister George Yeo as saying that the 'spat' with Thailand is not a big problem and that overall relations are good.

"We have some problems with Thailand and Indonesia but they are not big problems. Generally speaking," AFP quoted Mr. Yeo as saying, "our overall relations with Thailand and Indonesia remain good." (TNA)-E006

source: http://etna.mcot.net/query.php?nid=28127

[Clipped]

'Clipped'...quote.. you probably bought for a girl of questionable character....

It is sad to say you refer all Thai women as 'questionable character'... you are so dehumanizing..

You know how many forum readers here have Thai girlfriends/wives....

You still don't get it, do you......

never did i say 'all thai women'...where did i say all thai women , show me...go back and learn how to read or stop using your emotions to post

if you bought a house and car and are trying to get it back...then yeah she was probably of questionable character.

do i get it? what, you think all because you pay cash to buy something that it should be yours?

so show me genius where did i say all thai women? im trying really hard not to start a flame war with someone as primitive as you...

ps...where did youre post disappear too?

why dont you tell me what it is i am supposed to get?

Edited February 24, 2007 by Clipped

[Clipped]

blaze, the military is not considered media...they were on air by radio and tv, setting out the preliminary points to be followed...as for who said it, hel_l, i dont know what some guy on the radio looks like.

yes i meant the 1997 constitution, i figured it would be common sense to think of the 1997, my bad, shouldve been clearer...i really didnt think anyone would consider the 1932 constitution, which was soooooo old.

around 1997 banharn silpa archa (or was it chuan leekpai?) , received a no confidence vote...without a prime minister, thaksin shinawatra was asked to be advisor ,aka deputy prime minister.

with the thai economy in peril around 1996-97, the thai members of parliament looked to thaksin for advice as he was the richest man in thailand at the time,and seemed the most fit for the job.

with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution.

all appeared good for a while as exports started rising, but what alot of people seem to forget is, a weak exchange rate gives foreign buyers more bang for the buck, and in essence the weak baht is what escalated exports... thaksin has a habit of performing when he knows things will make him look good...

blaze just please take the time to do some of your own research, i really really really dont feel like feeding it to you with a spoon.

best regards

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

the way you talk. it seems like you are implying that all thais other than thaksin are buffoons. ..robots with no will of their own other than their loyalty to money. other people who are crooks cannot be held to blame because they were just servants.

it's thaksin, and ONLY THAKSIN that is to blame for all the ails of thailand.

all the other people in the government including the members of the democrat party are just innocent bystanders to the whole process of government. if they took bribes from thaksin, they are excused because they are just pawns in the whole scheme of things.

...."if he didn't offer me the bribe, I wouldn't have taken it." or better yet, "if he wasn't in the way of my gun, he would not be dead."

..IT'S THAKSIN FAULT!!!!!

this is the feeling I get from your posting.

so i guess you dont realize most of the people in TRT were enlisted from other parties... if you understand thai culture you will understand the situation and the subordination that goes with it... you obviously dont...

why there are an extremely few number of people willing to blow the whistle on thaksin...is simple... if you are not with him you are washed up in politics while TRT is in power...and im not talking about the other larger parties, im talking about the smaller guys trying to get up...

i never said thaksin was solely reliable....i guess thats why TRT is facing dissolution.

Edited February 24, 2007 by Clipped

[Clipped]

blaze, the military is not considered media...they were on air by radio and tv, setting out the preliminary points to be followed...as for who said it, hel_l, i dont know what some guy on the radio looks like.

yes i meant the 1997 constitution, i figured it would be common sense to think of the 1997, my bad, shouldve been clearer...i really didnt think anyone would consider the 1932 constitution, which was soooooo old.

around 1997 banharn silpa archa (or was it chuan leekpai?) , received a no confidence vote...without a prime minister, thaksin shinawatra was asked to be advisor ,aka deputy prime minister.

with the thai economy in peril around 1996-97, the thai members of parliament looked to thaksin for advice as he was the richest man in thailand at the time,and seemed the most fit for the job.

with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution.

all appeared good for a while as exports started rising, but what alot of people seem to forget is, a weak exchange rate gives foreign buyers more bang for the buck, and in essence the weak baht is what escalated exports... thaksin has a habit of performing when he knows things will make him look good...

blaze just please take the time to do some of your own research, i really really really dont feel like feeding it to you with a spoon.

best regards

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

"with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution."

Unless he was on the drafting committee, his only formal role would have been, as Dep PM to PM Chavalit, to either encourage or discourage ratification of the draft. (The landslide vote in parliament to ratify the draft would suggest that he supported it).

You have said that Taksin initiated the re-writing of the constitution. It was not re-written- at Taksin's urging or any body elses.

Moreover, it begs the question:

what relevence do insights into international business have on the development of the constitution? The constitution has no effect on fiscal policy.

Regarding the reasons for tearing up the constitution by the junta- surely you know the reason for that- under the 97 constitution, those who seized the government could have faced very serious criminal charges.

If I am mistaken in anything I have said here, please provide me with a link that will correct my misunderstandings- but please, before you do so, read the info on the link first (since your previous two links did nothing to support your allegations)

actually there were to many loopholes in the 1997 constitution which allowed abuse of power...with the guise of being for the people.

your saying the constitution has nothing to do with fiscal policy? who rights fiscal policy, and how does that person/s get into power to write fiscal policy?...tell me.

you said thaksins only role would be to encourage or discourage ratification, not true...

im not giving you any links, because its fairly obvious youre not doing any research of your own...

[Clipped]

Its pretty hard to debate issues with people who do not have firsthand knowledge of under the table dealings with TRT... and so i must leave it at this, because most of the corruption is not publicized YET...just remember my words after everything comes to light.

the aggression on this topic reminds me of the pro thaksin supporters who were always physically throwing the first punch...

im through with this thread and the ignorance involved with pro thaksin supporters...flame away

[nick2k]

blaze, the military is not considered media...they were on air by radio and tv, setting out the preliminary points to be followed...as for who said it, hel_l, i dont know what some guy on the radio looks like.

yes i meant the 1997 constitution, i figured it would be common sense to think of the 1997, my bad, shouldve been clearer...i really didnt think anyone would consider the 1932 constitution, which was soooooo old.

around 1997 banharn silpa archa (or was it chuan leekpai?) , received a no confidence vote...without a prime minister, thaksin shinawatra was asked to be advisor ,aka deputy prime minister.

with the thai economy in peril around 1996-97, the thai members of parliament looked to thaksin for advice as he was the richest man in thailand at the time,and seemed the most fit for the job.

with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution.

all appeared good for a while as exports started rising, but what alot of people seem to forget is, a weak exchange rate gives foreign buyers more bang for the buck, and in essence the weak baht is what escalated exports... thaksin has a habit of performing when he knows things will make him look good...

blaze just please take the time to do some of your own research, i really really really dont feel like feeding it to you with a spoon.

best regards

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

the way you talk. it seems like you are implying that all thais other than thaksin are buffoons. ..robots with no will of their own other than their loyalty to money. other people who are crooks cannot be held to blame because they were just servants.

it's thaksin, and ONLY THAKSIN that is to blame for all the ails of thailand.

all the other people in the government including the members of the democrat party are just innocent bystanders to the whole process of government. if they took bribes from thaksin, they are excused because they are just pawns in the whole scheme of things.

...."if he didn't offer me the bribe, I wouldn't have taken it." or better yet, "if he wasn't in the way of my gun, he would not be dead."

..IT'S THAKSIN FAULT!!!!!

this is the feeling I get from your posting.

so i guess you dont realize most of the people in TRT were enlisted from other parties... if you understand thai culture you will understand the situation and the subordination that goes with it... you obviously dont...

why there are an extremely few number of people willing to blow the whistle on thaksin...is simple... if you are not with him you are washed up in politics while TRT is in power...and im not talking about the other larger parties, im talking about the smaller guys trying to get up...

i never said thaksin was solely reliable....i guess thats why TRT is facing dissolution.

I will be the first to admit that I do not really know thai culture. but my first impression from what you said is that - there is a class system here in thailand.

some thais are lower class, and some are higher class. basically, the lower class people are inferior and therefore do not deserve equal treatment in thai society. lower class thais don't deserve a decent education. they don't deserve to get decent pay. they are expected to suffer for the rest of their lives because they were born in the wrong place.

lower class thais are stupid, stubborn, incompetent, lazy, and too dark skinned. so, they should not allowed to share the reins of power with the elite upper class thais. right???? am I getting the picture?

that would explain why the children of rich people can get away with murder. can get away with destroying other people's property. can basically take what they desire when they desire it.

...that would explain the coup. and why the people in bangkok trampled over their constitution to make changes to the status quo.

basically the elite upper class thais are saying that democracy is not possible in thailand because lower class thais do not deserve to have equal rights .

[thedude]

blaze, the military is not considered media...they were on air by radio and tv, setting out the preliminary points to be followed...as for who said it, hel_l, i dont know what some guy on the radio looks like.

yes i meant the 1997 constitution, i figured it would be common sense to think of the 1997, my bad, shouldve been clearer...i really didnt think anyone would consider the 1932 constitution, which was soooooo old.

around 1997 banharn silpa archa (or was it chuan leekpai?) , received a no confidence vote...without a prime minister, thaksin shinawatra was asked to be advisor ,aka deputy prime minister.

with the thai economy in peril around 1996-97, the thai members of parliament looked to thaksin for advice as he was the richest man in thailand at the time,and seemed the most fit for the job.

with his expertise in business he started to inject his insight of international business into, you guessed it the constitution.

all appeared good for a while as exports started rising, but what alot of people seem to forget is, a weak exchange rate gives foreign buyers more bang for the buck, and in essence the weak baht is what escalated exports... thaksin has a habit of performing when he knows things will make him look good...

blaze just please take the time to do some of your own research, i really really really dont feel like feeding it to you with a spoon.

best regards

ps...there would have to be a reason the current government chose to revoke the 97 constitution

the way you talk. it seems like you are implying that all thais other than thaksin are buffoons. ..robots with no will of their own other than their loyalty to money. other people who are crooks cannot be held to blame because they were just servants.

it's thaksin, and ONLY THAKSIN that is to blame for all the ails of thailand.

all the other people in the government including the members of the democrat party are just innocent bystanders to the whole process of government. if they took bribes from thaksin, they are excused because they are just pawns in the whole scheme of things.

...."if he didn't offer me the bribe, I wouldn't have taken it." or better yet, "if he wasn't in the way of my gun, he would not be dead."

..IT'S THAKSIN FAULT!!!!!

this is the feeling I get from your posting.

so i guess you dont realize most of the people in TRT were enlisted from other parties... if you understand thai culture you will understand the situation and the subordination that goes with it... you obviously dont...

why there are an extremely few number of people willing to blow the whistle on thaksin...is simple... if you are not with him you are washed up in politics while TRT is in power...and im not talking about the other larger parties, im talking about the smaller guys trying to get up...

i never said thaksin was solely reliable....i guess thats why TRT is facing dissolution.

I will be the first to admit that I do not really know thai culture. but my first impression from what you said is that - there is a class system here in thailand.

some thais are lower class, and some are higher class. basically, the lower class people are inferior and therefore do not deserve equal treatment in thai society. lower class thais don't deserve a decent education. they don't deserve to get decent pay. they are expected to suffer for the rest of their lives because they were born in the wrong place.

lower class thais are stupid, stubborn, incompetent, lazy, and too dark skinned. so, they should not allowed to share the reins of power with the elite upper class thais. right???? am I getting the picture?

that would explain why the children of rich people can get away with murder. can get away with destroying other people's property. can basically take what they desire when they desire it.

...that would explain the coup. and why the people in bangkok trampled over their constitution to make changes to the status quo.

basically the elite upper class thais are saying that democracy is not possible in thailand because lower class thais do not deserve to have equal rights .

at the risk of detracting from the satellite discussion, i'd just like to point out that not all upper class thais are fair skinned, nor indeed are all fair skinned thais of the upper class. part of the issue with the overthrow of the thaksin admininstration was that thaksin and many in his government were of the "merchant class" thai-chinese variety, a bunch of "new rich" country bumpkins from up north and their academic brothers who would under normal circumstances only teach and not get involved in government. the thaksin bunch should not be confused with the traditional elites who mainly constitute aristocrats, old military families, bureacrat families from civil administration, and blue bloods, the majority of whom would be insulted to be thought of as being anything else other than pure blooded thai. thaksin's administration marks the first time that the country is run by someone from the outside, cleverly exploiting a constitution that unwittingly beats their old boy system. unwittingly because the 1997 consitution was in fact drafted by a well-meaning, democratic minded committee chaired by none other than anand panyarachun, who is definitely not thai-chinese, but a Mon thai and definitely one of the old elites. of course, being thai-chinese of the merchant class does not automatically exclude you from the elites, it gets more complicating, there are in fact many thai chinese who could truly say they belong to the tatler crowd, but it takes a lot of socialising, knowing your place, charity work and maybe even some inter-marrying. the disdain for thaksin had been palpable for several years, as an expat working for a multinational, i attended the occassional cocktail event where society ladies would, after a few drinks and at the mention of him, make denagrading remarks of thaksin, and saying things like they would never be seen dead at the same party that his wife was attending, these country folks are just too crude etc etc.... i'm sure the society men were more discreet but perhaps more scheming. the cummulative effect was the months of bad press that followed thaksin like a cloud, never being able to shake off all the cleverly devised avalanche of rumours and mis-statements and scandals cooked up by the people behind the scene and led by the scoundrel sondhi. frustrated, thaksin tried at one time to stop talking to the press altogether, but they continued to heckle him, accusing him of gagging the press, using lawyers to make threats etc. thaksin was actually thinking that selling shin corp would rid him of all the accusations of using his position to benefit his company, but the press stole the event and twisted the facts to make him look like he was evading tax and selling away national assets. i just get so angry every time i think about this because its so obvious to me that the elites continue to pull the wool over people's eyes making them hate him. i think thailand lost out on a real opportunity at real democracy. if people were willing to grow up and let democracy take its course, we would be having the next elections by december this year, and they could have legitimately voted him out. i'm sure the elites were rubbing their hands gleefully during those months of protests, but sadly for them violence never quite broke out because thaksin knew better than anyone else what excuse this would have given them. in the end they could wait no longer and rolled in with their tanks. people cheered and gave flowers! now look at what we have.

Edited February 25, 2007 by thedude

[robint]

ive worked in singapore, these guys are very smart people (and great to work with). they are not going to be dicked around by monkey brained military. They have worldwide clout well in tune with the civilised world

any illegitimate behaviour here will have a drastic, domino effect. its already very evident that thais have no idea about the sanctity of a business contract and never seem to honour any deal

so watch out, LOS you will be in for a heavy spanking

[slimdog]

No problem if Temasek sells Shin Satellite, says foreign minister

Foreign Minister George Yeo does not think that it would be a problem if Temasek Holdings decides to divest Shin Satellite, Thailand's only satellite operator - as long as it is a commercial transaction between willing parties.

But he stressed that it is a decision to be made by Temasek and the buyers.

Yeo was responding to media queries yesterday (Feb 24) on recent news reports that Temasek was considering letting Thai firms buy into the satellite business to ease political tensions between the two countries.

He said: "If this is a commercial transaction on the basis of both sides being willing parties, then I see no problem at all. This is for Temasek to consider and for the buyers to consider whether the price is right".

When contacted, Temasek declined comment.

Shin Satellite is a unit of Thai telecom giant Shin Corp in which Temasek has a controlling stake.

Temasek's purchase of the Shin Corp stake from the family of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in January last year had set off massive protests in Thailand which culminated in Thaksin's ouster in a military coup in September.

The sale stirred up nationalist sentiments, prompting calls from as high up as the head of Thailand's National Security Council, General Sonthi Boonyarataglin, for a return of national assets.

Minister Yeo said "in Thailand, I think they want to make sure that their economy continues to welcome foreign investment. We are all part of the global economy".

"I think they are very conscious that whatever they do with respect to Singapore, (it) must be something which they are prepared to do with any other country, so that all foreign investors are treated equally".

He added that Singapore's foreign relations with major partners are good, despite some problems with Thailand and Indonesia.

But he noted that the problems are not big and the overall relations with the two countries remain good.

source: http://www.asianewsnet.net/news.php?aid=8112

[Mid]

money on Singapore ending up with the best piece of the pie .................................

[Sing_Sling]

money on Singapore ending up with the best piece of the pie .................................

And that's the way it should be - - - they bought this particular pie legally.

[Mid]

money on Singapore ending up with the best piece of the pie .................................

And that's the way it should be - - - they bought this particular pie legally.

there would appear to be some conjecture on that point

[wintermute]

ive worked in singapore, these guys are very smart people (and great to work with). they are not going to be dicked around by monkey brained military. They have worldwide clout well in tune with the civilised world

any illegitimate behaviour here will have a drastic, domino effect. its already very evident that thais have no idea about the sanctity of a business contract and never seem to honour any deal

so watch out, LOS you will be in for a heavy spanking

I agree and I said something like this before. I don't think Thais realize how much business clout little Singapore has in the world. They are extremely savvy businessmen and have held their own and prospered in the very volatile SE asian business environment. Even if the Thais think they are going to screw Temasek i'd be willing to bet that Singapore will still come out with the better end of the deal. Singapore always pulls something out of its hat..this is why they are a 1st world developed economy amongst a bunch of half-assed developing nations.

[Sing_Sling]

money on Singapore ending up with the best piece of the pie .................................

And that's the way it should be - - - they bought this particular pie legally.

there would appear to be some conjecture on that point

Indeed there is.

On the one side you have some soldiers and the great unwashed, err uneducated masses who are blind with xenophobia and on the other hand you have the people with brains. (including the majority of Thai politicians and legal eagles who have found theirs in the last few days)

[Mid]

' Richie , get that one will you ............... '

straight through to the keeper

[wintermute]

Thai politicians and legal eagles who have found theirs in the last few days)

They sure did back down from "we'll seize yer satellites anyway possible!" to "uhh we'll do this the quasi-legal way" to "maybe we'll just let the thai private sector handle it but we heartily approve of getting them back someday."

I assume they figured out that internationally they would look just like their neighbor Burma or they are just making a feint while they plan on repatriating it through less than legal means in the future.

[Mid]

the Satellites are just a smoke screen .......................

smoke and mirrors ,

it's all done with smoke and mirrors