Has Anyone Used Monthly Income without the Income Letter?

[JohnnyBD]

Sorry, but my previous thread was high-jacked and closed in less than 18 hours... Please, I would like the thread to stay open long enough to see if anyone out there has done this before... We need more than 18 hours for everyone to see the post.

My question is:

Has anyone ever renewed their yearly extension using the monthly income method and was not required to get an income letter or income affidavit from their Embassy? If so, please share what documents were accepted by TI, at which office your extension was renewed and the year it was renewed. Thank you...

Kindly, Johnny

Edited November 13, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[ubonjoe]

You can still read the posts in that topic to find if anybody said they had done it. But I doubt if anybody has said they did not need one.

At this time it is not possible to apply for an extension of stay without proof of income from an embassy for income from abroad.

 

There might be some people that have shown tax statements for income earned here from an investment or a provident fund set up while working here. Or in the case of a person married to or is the parent of a Thai that is working here by showing tax payments to meet the 40k bath income requirement.

 

[JohnnyBD]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can still read the posts in that topic to find if anybody said they had done it. But I doubt if anybody has said they did not need one.

At this time it is not possible to apply for an extension of stay without proof of income from an embassy for income from abroad.

 

There might be some people that have shown tax statements for income earned here from an investment or a provident fund set up while working here. Or in the case of a person married to or is the parent of a Thai that is working here by showing tax payments to meet the 40k bath income requirement.

 

Thanks unbonjoe… So, TI does not currently accept the monthly income method unless you provide the income letter or income affidavit. Then, that's my answer.

I have a company pension greater than 65k per month, but if they won't accept that, then I will plan on using the 800k bank account method in Sep 2019 unless TI makes an official announcement on the income method before then.

Thanks again... Kindly, Johnny 

Edited November 13, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

I have a private company pension greater than 65k per month, but  if they won't accept that, then I will plan on using the 800k bank account method in Sep 2019 unless TI makes an official announcement and issues guidelines on the income method.

So that means you have roughly until JUN 1 to see what , if anything goes down on the 65K+ monthly income route before you would have to deposit 800K for the 3 months required prior to extension application.

[JohnnyBD]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So that means you have roughly until JUN 1 to see what , if anything goes down on the 65K+ monthly income route before you would have to deposit 800K for the 3 months required prior to extension application.

Thank you JLCrab… will put on my calendar... Kindly, Johnny

[KhunFred]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

 

At this time it is not possible to apply for an extension of stay without proof of income from an embassy for income from abroad.

 

I got a verified letter from Social Security stating the income that i would get monthly for life. The letter is available online if you belong to Social Security Dot Gov. There is a link on the page called "My Social Security" where you can get the letter and print it out, Also, it will tell when your next payment is due to be deposited. This part of the site also has a rundown of each year's earning.  I can't speak for other states, but Alabama's retirement system issues statements similar to Social Security's 1099 statement. It is difficult for me to believe that such government generated "Proof of income" would be rejected as evidence, then I remember that I am in Thailand. The delay on this issue is giving Visa hucksters plenty . of time to commit theft by charging hapless farang between 650 and 950 dollars to get you an extension or a Non-Immigrant "O" based on marriage to a Thai. I have a bad feeling that once agents with I-O connections, get a taste of a great payday, that there is no reason to think that system will change. NO ONE is advocating for farang retirees such as the AARP in America and groups such as the  Alabama Education Association. Both those organizations wield a good deal of power, because they represent their  constituents effectively. There is strength in numbers.

Edited November 13, 2018 by ubonjoe
moved reply from quoted text

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

NO ONE is advocating for farang retirees such as the AARP in America and groups such as the  Alabama Education Association. Both those organizations wield a good deal of power, because they represent their  constituents effectively. There is strength in numbers.

The first problem is, many expat retirees in Thailand want to see all the other expats booted out of the country.  They literally cheer and finger-wag, "Get a proper visa like I do," when someone else loses their suddenly no-longer-permitted means of stay.

 

The second problem is - I don't think immigration would care, even if we spoke in a unified voice, unless that was accompanied by some serious money.  So, we would need the Thai-equivalent of a "Political Action Committee" - assuming that sort of activity would even be legal for foreigners to engage-in.

[KhunFred]

20 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The first problem is, many expat retirees in Thailand want to see all the other expats booted out of the country.  They literally cheer and finger-wag, "Get a proper visa like I do," when someone else loses their suddenly no-longer-permitted means of stay.

 

The second problem is - I don't think immigration would care, even if we spoke in a unified voice, unless that was accompanied by some serious money.  So, we would need the Thai-equivalent of a "Political Action Committee" - assuming that sort of activity would even be legal for foreigners to engage-in.

I mostly agree with you, but since "tea money" is expected here, a PAC might just work. They are certainly not going to listen to foreigners complaints without some compensation. On their salaries, I can't say I blame them. Any political action committee that does not threaten Hun Sen in any way would be looked at as a "supplicant" of sorts. Men such as the Cambodian PM LOVE to play the benefactor, especially when the kitty is sweetened a little.

[JLCrab]

21 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The first problem is, many expat retirees in Thailand want to see all the other expats booted out of the country. 

Not ALL.

[JohnnyBD]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 5:22 PM, KhunFred said:

I got a verified letter from Social Security stating the income that i would get monthly for life.

So, did you try to use your Social Security letter as the only proof of income without an income affidavit from US embassy?

 

Sorry, I didn't see what you wrote below:

Quote

It is difficult for me to believe that such government generated "Proof of income" would be rejected as evidence, then I remember that I am in Thailand.

So, you never tried to use your Social Security letter as your ONLY proof of income. I wish someone would try then come back and post if they had any luck...

Edited November 14, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[KhunFred]

2 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

So, did you try to use your Social Security letter as the only proof of income without an income affidavit from US embassy?

 

Sorry, I didn't see what you wrote below:

So, you never tried to use your Social Security letter as your ONLY proof of income. I wish someone would try then come back and post if they had any luck...

I have THREE sources of income. Social Security, state retirement ( can be verified with a tax statement) and an annuity with documents showing what I get monthly. NONE of those are accepted because someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances. Bottom line: they really don't want us here. That infusion of cash from expat spending makes the locals jealous and makes them realize that they are getting shafted every day of their lives. You cannot speak truth to power here.

[onera1961]

 

17 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Bottom line: they really don't want us here.

This thread is again turning into each person's own method of satisfying TI's requirement. I guess TI is not interested in foreign documents in different languages which can be easily faked and a time consuming process to check. They want a simple method like current practice of  While 800K baht and/or embassy letter (sometimes with proof), or the agents who can loan you the money and overcome seasoning by using bribe and it will cost you some bucks (as one  poster said 600-900K USD). Another options for people who are willing to travel to their home country is to get an O-A visa. There are still plenty of option available. Unless all options are closed, I will believe "they" want us out. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by onera1961

[BarnicaleBob]

As an experiment, I attempted to use notarized income statements from two sources other than my embassy to documented my income.  One was a notarized income statement from my pension company and the other was a notarized statement from a CPA who handles my business affairs in the US.  I also added printouts of other incomes.  Immigration rejected it all saying they wanted the embassy income letter, which delayed my renewal by a day because of having to run over to get an income letter from the consulate.  So no other type of income statement seems to please immigration other than an embassy one.  Which is a shame because the other income statements I provided were much more reliable then anything then what an embassy could ever produce.  I can make between 5 and 10 percent interest in investments in the USA, so pulling some of that money to put in a non-interest account with a Thai bank makes no sense at all and seems more like an insult than anything else.  

[billsmart]

Great Question! I'd love to hear the "official" answer directly from Thai Immigrations.

 

My Retirement Visa is due to be renewed in mid-December. I am going to the US Embassy to get my letter the first week in December, but that will be the last one I'll be able to get.

 

I just went down to my local (Phetchabun) Immigration Office to do my 90-day. I discussed the situation with them and they told me if I got the letter from the US Embassy, they could use that to renew my visa in December this year. HOWEVER, when I asked the officer what I could provide next year for proof of monthly income and suggested a bank book or statement from the bank, he said "No." He said that then I would have to show I've had THB 800K in a Thai bank for 3 months prior to the extension date. I then showed him that the requirements say EITHER THB 800K OR proof of income in excess of THB 65K a month. I asked him again, what proof would he accept to satisfy the THB 65K-per-month requirement, and he said "a letter from your embassy."

So, either the news of what other than the letter from the embassy would be accepted as proof of a monthly income has not yet made it to Phetchabun, or it hasn't been formulated yet and perhaps never will be.

 

I have until mid-Sep of next year to either discover what, if any, new rules there are for proof of income, or put THB 800K in the bank. In my case, I can always change to a Marriage Visa which would only require THB 400K, but I'm still hoping for some resolution to what would be acceptable for a proof of income to come from Bangkok Thai Immigration.

Please, everyone, keep us all informed if you learn anything OFFICIAL concerning this issue.

Thanks...

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, BarnicaleBob said:

I can make between 5 and 10 percent interest in investments in the USA, so pulling some of that money to put in a non-interest account with a Thai bank makes no sense at all and seems more like an insult than anything else

Agree.d And that scenario getting an O-A may be better unless for health reason on cannot travel. 

[Issanjohn]

On 11/13/2018 at 5:22 PM, KhunFred said:

I got a verified letter from Social Security stating the income that i would get monthly for life. The letter is available online if you belong to Social Security Dot Gov. There is a link on the page called "My Social Security" where you can get the letter and print it out, Also, it will tell when your next payment is due to be deposited. This part of the site also has a rundown of each year's earning.  I can't speak for other states, but Alabama's retirement system issues statements similar to Social Security's 1099 statement. It is difficult for me to believe that such government generated "Proof of income" would be rejected as evidence, then I remember that I am in Thailand. The delay on this issue is giving Visa hucksters plenty . of time to commit theft by charging hapless farang between 650 and 950 dollars to get you an extension or a Non-Immigrant "O" based on marriage to a Thai. I have a bad feeling that once agents with I-O connections, get a taste of a great payday, that there is no reason to think that system will change. NO ONE is advocating for farang retirees such as the AARP in America and groups such as the  Alabama Education Association. Both those organizations wield a good deal of power, because they represent their  constituents effectively. There is strength in numbers.

For 2020 after they totally stop accepting the income affidavit I was thinking about trying to use my VA and DFAS pension letters because I’m retired military but just to be safe I’m probably just gonna open a Thai bank account and just start transferring maybe half my monthly pension payments into a Thai bank account from my bank in the states every month because even the embassy said that after they accept this one last income affidavit in January next time they will PROBABLY and I emphasize probably want to see the money in a Thai bank account.  So I’m just gonna open the Thai bank account to be safe so I know I’m covered next time.  Although if immigration would accept my pension letters next time I apply for my extension in 2020 that would be nice and easier for me but everyone’s income situation is different.  It sounds like we’ll probably have to have money going into a Thai bank account every month no later than probably May or June next year but I don’t think there has been any official guidance as far as how immigration will want to verify our income next year, so we’ll see.  I’d say probably just have money going to a Thai bank account every month just to be sure.  And I’ll bring my pension letters as well that I can print off of eBenefits kind of how you get your Social Security letters.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by Issanjohn

[4MyEgo]

21 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I have THREE sources of income. Social Security, state retirement ( can be verified with a tax statement) and an annuity with documents showing what I get monthly. NONE of those are accepted because someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances. Bottom line: they really don't want us here. That infusion of cash from expat spending makes the locals jealous and makes them realize that they are getting shafted every day of their lives. You cannot speak truth to power here.

I really cannot see the problem with Xpats putting 400k or 800k in the bank and leaving it there, depending on the extension they are seeking, i.e. marriage or retirement, or am I missing some point ?

 

[Issanjohn]

This isn’t official immigration guidance but I know what I’m gonna do for next time in 2020 when they totally stop accepting the letter.  Next payday I’m gonna open a Thai bank account and just start transferring probably half of my monthly pension payments every month from my bank in the states into a Thai bank account and just keep my bank statements every month for every month throughout the year so I can verify my monthly income next time I do my extension in January 2020.  I mean I’m probably just gonna use the money I transfer over here to pay bills anyway and do whatever with the rest or just save what’s leftover.  This actually might be good for me because it’ll force me to budget myself better because I’ll just spend the money that I transfer to a Thai bank account and then save the money that I leave in my bank in the states because I make more than double the minimum monthly income requirement so I might as well use this situation to my advantage.  There’s always a bright side to everything even though it will be something extra we have to do such as opening the account here and then remembering to transfer at least the minimum monthly income requirement every month on payday.  

 

And at least I know that when I do my extension this time in January 2019 they should still accept my income affidavit this one last time according to what the United States Embassy has put out officially.  The United States Embassy said that it’s still valid at immigration for up to six months after the day it’s completed, at least for American citizens anyway and I’m sure it’s probably the same for everyone else as well but I don’t know what’s going on with Denmark.  The United States Embassy actually told me via email that our income affidavits will still be valid for up to six months after the date it’s completed going into the new year I actually have the official word in writing and they said that they got that information from Thai Immigration Bureau Officials, so that part of my post IS actually official guidance from the United States Embassy which they say came from Thai Immigration Bureau Officials.

 

They’ve also said that they are supposed to be supporting early renewals but they don’t specify how early but I might try to do it in December if they’ll let me.  If not according to the official guidance the income affidavit should still be valid in January since I’ll be well within 6 months because I’m getting my income affidavit done next week I have the appointment scheduled and I confirmed with the US embassy today via email that the current official guidance has not changed and that income affidavits for US citizens are still valid for up to six months after the date it’s completed.  

 

So I really don’t understand what’s up with Denmark because even the Australian Embassy is still doing it till January 7th I believe their website says if I’m not mistaken.  

[Issanjohn]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

I really cannot see the problem with Xpats putting 400k or 800k in the bank and leaving it there, depending on the extension they are seeking, i.e. marriage or retirement, or am I missing some point ?

 

Well obviously you’re probably gonna spend it unless you’re rich but I believe you just have to verify your income as in showing that the money has been coming in every month or you can show money in savings.  

[kokopelli]

In Pattaya some person asked the chief at Jomtien Immigration what they needed for the extension. Answer was, after 1 January, you will  need 800,000 Baht for three months prior to extension. Nothing else acceptable. Here is the text:

 

He was told that after January 1, Pattaya immigration will only approve retirement visas for applicants who can prove 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account for at least 3 consecutive months prior to applying, period! 
The chief made it clear - no matter what anyone else has been told or who told them, even if they were told by immigration officers, Pattaya immigration will accept embassy verification letters only until January 1 and even then, the letters will be accepted only if they were issued by the embassy on or before December 12. After January 1 no embassy verification letters will be accepted.

[orchidfan]

22 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I have THREE sources of income. Social Security, state retirement ( can be verified with a tax statement) and an annuity with documents showing what I get monthly. NONE of those are accepted because someone might have to READ something to get the meaning. It's like dealing with an eight year old who wants his way ALL the time and under ALL circumstances. Bottom line: they really don't want us here. That infusion of cash from expat spending makes the locals jealous and makes them realize that they are getting shafted every day of their lives. You cannot speak truth to power here.

Everything you submit MUST be translated into Thai and notorised as a true and correct translation. 

 

[DUNROAMIN]

On 11/13/2018 at 4:28 PM, ubonjoe said:

You can still read the posts in that topic to find if anybody said they had done it. But I doubt if anybody has said they did not need one.

At this time it is not possible to apply for an extension of stay without proof of income from an embassy for income from abroad.

 

There might be some people that have shown tax statements for income earned here from an investment or a provident fund set up while working here. Or in the case of a person married to or is the parent of a Thai that is working here by showing tax payments to meet the 40k bath income requirement.

 

I am going to Immigration tomorrow ( as requested by my local Immigration office) with bank statements from my Australian and Thai Banks. The Australian bank statement shows all my overseas transfers to Thailand. The Thai bank statement is stamped and verified by the bank showing money transferred from Australia into my Thai bank account for a 12 month period which adds up to over 800,000B. They seem to be happy with this. Let you know if all goes well.

[joevanwyck]

3 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

I am going to Immigration tomorrow ( as requested by my local Immigration office) with bank statements from my Australian and Thai Banks. The Australian bank statement shows all my overseas transfers to Thailand. The Thai bank statement is stamped and verified by the bank showing money transferred from Australia into my Thai bank account for a 12 month period which adds up to over 800,000B. They seem to be happy with this. Let you know if all goes well.

Hope everything works out.

[Media1]

On 11/13/2018 at 5:22 PM, KhunFred said:

I got a verified letter from Social Security stating the income that i would get monthly for life. The letter is available online if you belong to Social Security Dot Gov. There is a link on the page called "My Social Security" where you can get the letter and print it out, Also, it will tell when your next payment is due to be deposited. This part of the site also has a rundown of each year's earning.  I can't speak for other states, but Alabama's retirement system issues statements similar to Social Security's 1099 statement. It is difficult for me to believe that such government generated "Proof of income" would be rejected as evidence, then I remember that I am in Thailand. The delay on this issue is giving Visa hucksters plenty . of time to commit theft by charging hapless farang between 650 and 950 dollars to get you an extension or a Non-Immigrant "O" based on marriage to a Thai. I have a bad feeling that once agents with I-O connections, get a taste of a great payday, that there is no reason to think that system will change. NO ONE is advocating for farang retirees such as the AARP in America and groups such as the  Alabama Education Association. Both those organizations wield a good deal of power, because they represent their  constituents effectively. There is strength in numbers.

Correct thank you and this can be certified by my embassy anyway. Some will disagree but who cares lol

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

I really cannot see the problem with Xpats putting 400k or 800k in the bank and leaving it there, depending on the extension they are seeking, i.e. marriage or retirement, or am I missing some point ?

 

You're missing the point that not everyone has the same resources, ideas or preferences...to be clear...YOURS. While I have the means to put the baht in the bank...it is definitely not my preference to have an idle $25k wallowing in a crappy Thai savings acct. Much better ways to put that tidy sum to work...but "c'est la vie".

 

That said...after my last Embassy Income Affidavit and "Retirement Extension" next month which gives me another year, I will have the seasoned ฿800k in the bank next year. Not my preference, but appears to be the easiest way to comply. However, others may certainly find this to be a financial burden...or simply impossible. 

[jesimps]

On 11/13/2018 at 7:27 PM, JackThompson said:

The first problem is, many expat retirees in Thailand want to see all the other expats booted out of the country.  They literally cheer and finger-wag, "Get a proper visa like I do," when someone else loses their suddenly no-longer-permitted means of stay.

 

The second problem is - I don't think immigration would care, even if we spoke in a unified voice, unless that was accompanied by some serious money.  So, we would need the Thai-equivalent of a "Political Action Committee" - assuming that sort of activity would even be legal for foreigners to engage-in.

You're right about some farang who get all orgasmic when when others get booted out of the country. Reminds me of when I was a schoolboy when someone would snitch to the teacher and really enjoy seeing you get into trouble. They're out there and they know who they are.

[Jack james]

What about a certified monthly statement from bank showing deposits?

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, Jack james said:

What about a certified monthly statement from bank showing deposits?

At this point, that is our best hope - maybe if they deposits are "foreign transfers".  I am skeptical this will be accepted - though I hope dearly that I am wrong.

[Jack james]

If the rules are that I am allowed 65000 monthly there has to be some means to show that to immigration, otherwise it's meaningless and only the full 800000 is allowed.

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

At this point, that is our best hope - maybe if they deposits are "foreign transfers".  I am skeptical this will be accepted - though I hope dearly that I am wrong.

And whatever the downside risk, it may be a good idea to start making those 65K+ baht monthly 'FTT' deposits anyway.