Has Anyone Used Monthly Income without the Income Letter?

[jimn]

50 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Reference Income for retirement.

Went to my Immigration office today with two lots of "Proof of Income" No Embassy Affidavit or Stat Dec provided.

 

1. Official Government letters from Australian Military pension and Government Department of Veterans Affairs/age pension.

2. Bank statements from Australian bank showing transfers of funds to Thailand bank account, verified and signed. This verified an annual income of over B800,000.00.

I was also nearly due for 3 month visit this month and 12 month extension in December, the female immigration officer went out of her way and organised my 3 month and 12 month extension at the same time, her boss granted me a 40 day extension on top of my 12 month extension. It did take a bit longer than normal explaining my income, however, the staff at my immigration office were extremely helpful and polite.

I guess not all immigration offices are the same, maybe I was lucky or maybe its a matter of keeping your cool and working with these people and not against them.

 

Next year I am getting legally married to my girl, which will make it easier for income, B400,00.00 in the bank, or B40,000.00 per month. I am happy with B400,000.00 in a Thai bank, it will make things so much easier next year, not to mention many other benefits being married to a Thai.

Good luck to all with your visa extensions.

Cheers

 

 

 

 

Well done mate looks like you are the first. Long may it continue

[JohnnyBD]

30 minutes ago, jimn said:

Well done mate looks like you are the first. Long may it continue

Wow, is this the first, first-hand account of anyone getting their extension based on income method without an income affidavit. Congrats... that should give all some hope...

Edited November 16, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[DUNROAMIN]

1 hour ago, skatewash said:

Excellent news!  This is the first first-person report I've seen of a successful application with proof of income but without the embassy income letter and done by a person without the help of an agent.  Congratulations and hope this opportunity will be extended to everyone trying to use the income method going forward.  Just one question:  which Immigration Office did you use?

Just noticed Mukdahan as your location. ????  So, that Immigration Office, right?

Yes, Mukdahan is my immigration office.

[JLCrab]

6 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

It did take a bit longer than normal explaining my income,

How long did it take?

[Thai Chi]

12 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Reference Income for retirement.

Went to my Immigration office today with two lots of "Proof of Income" No Embassy Affidavit or Stat Dec provided.

 

1. Official Government letters from Australian Military pension and Government Department of Veterans Affairs/age pension.

2. Bank statements from Australian bank showing transfers of funds to Thailand bank account,

Well done DUNROAMING.

I can also show the same "proof of income" as you (dfrdb / comsuper pension + vet affairs part disability service related)

 

However, at my IO (Buriram) I have already been told that they will only accept fully seasoned money in the bank.

 

Mind you, that could possibly change getting closer to the end of the year and also depending on which officer you deal with.

 

True story from last Wednesday at immigration. After being out of the Province for 4 days I went to tell them I was back. My details were updated on the computer. A friend who had been away with me also went later in the morning. He tried to report back in and was told "no need, only if you are away for a long time"????????????

 

[DUNROAMIN]

38 minutes ago, Thai Chi said:

Well done DUNROAMING.

I can also show the same "proof of income" as you (dfrdb / comsuper pension + vet affairs part disability service related)

 

However, at my IO (Buriram) I have already been told that they will only accept fully seasoned money in the bank.

 

Mind you, that could possibly change getting closer to the end of the year and also depending on which officer you deal with.

 

True story from last Wednesday at immigration. After being out of the Province for 4 days I went to tell them I was back. My details were updated on the computer. A friend who had been away with me also went later in the morning. He tried to report back in and was told "no need, only if you are away for a long time"????????????

 

As I stated before, every Immigration office seems to make up their own rules, and even to the point as you stated every officer seems to have their own interpretation of the criteria. I actually took a print out their policy wording (in thai) from their official web site, which clearly reads, Criteria No. 5 "the foreigner must have an annual income of B800,000.00 deposited in a Thai bank. People are not understanding what has happened, Thai immigration has not changed any policy as yet. Next year will will find out eventually what the requirement will be for us "Farangs".

Cheers

[DUNROAMIN]

7 hours ago, JLCrab said:

How long did it take?

I spent about 1.5 hours at the immigration office, however, it was busy that day and my case officer was dealing with other visa related problems.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Criteria No. 5 "the foreigner must have an annual income of B800,000.00 deposited in a Thai bank.

That is only for the 800k baht in the bank for 3 months option. Number 5 here is for the combination option.

 

Source: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

[DUNROAMIN]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That is only for the 800k baht in the bank for 3 months option. Number 5 here is for the combination option.

 

Source: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

Maybe you are correct, however, it is a bit ambiguous regarding how the income stream. No. 3 & 4 are clear to me, however, No 5 is not very clear in its reading. Maybe one day Thailand Immigration will work together as one and not work independently as they seem to do constantly.  At the end of the day I had my visa approved which gave me "peace of mind"

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Maybe you are correct, however, it is a bit ambiguous regarding how the income stream. No. 3 & 4 are clear to me, however, No 5 is not very clear in its reading. 

Five is for a combination of annual income and money in the bank to reach a total of 800k baht. For example a monthly income of 50k baht X 12 is 600k baht and 200k baht in the bank to reach 800k baht.

[AJ5358]

Here is a statement directly from the Thai Immigration Bangkok website FAQs stating what the required documents are for retirement and income. It is quite clear they will ONLY except a letter/affidavit from your embassy to satisfy the income requirement option. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq Question 22 Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows; 1. In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand. - The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days) - Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or 2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare - Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or; 2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by AJ5358
typo

[jimn]

15 minutes ago, AJ5358 said:

Here is a statement directly from the Thai Immigration Bangkok website FAQs stating what the required documents are for retirement and income. It is quite clear they will ONLY except a letter/affidavit from your embassy to satisfy the income requirement option. http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq Question 22 Answer : For reasons to stay of Retirement, the alien must be 50 year of age or older and must have been granted a Non-Immigrant visa, firstly. More over, the said alien must have evidences to verify his/her financial status of not less than 65,000 Baht per month or 800,000 Baht per year. Evidences showing financial support are as follows; 1. In case of having money in the bank account (Saving/Fix deposit) of any bank located in Thailand. - The updated bank passbook on the date of application submission showing money in the account of not less than 800,000 Baht which has been deposited and consecutively held of such amount for 3 months. ( Except the first application for this reason, that such amount should be deposited and held for 60 days) - Letter from the bank certified the current account in the bank of not less than 800,000 Baht; or 2.2 In case of having any other income from abroad such as pension, social welfare - Letter from the applicant’s Embassy or consulate in Thailand verifying their pension or other income of the applicant which must not be less than 65,000 Baht per month. Or; 2.3 In case of a combination of having money in the bank account and income from pension, with total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht per year, the required documents are the same as mentioned in 2.1and 2.2

 

Welcome to the thread but that info has been published and recycled many times on the many threads on this issue over the last 5 or so weeks.

[joevanwyck]

1 minute ago, jimn said:

Welcome to the thread but that info has been published and recycled many times on the many threads on this issue over the last 5 or so weeks.

I agree. Getting tired of seeing the same thing over and over again. I am sure most expats have read the Thai Immigration Website.

[Peterw42]

21 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

2. Bank statements from Australian bank showing transfers of funds to Thailand bank account, verified and signed. This verified an annual income of over B800,000.00.

Who verified and signed the Australian bank statements ? Did you need to supply anything from a Thai bank ?

[JLCrab]

8 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

15 hours ago, JLCrab said:

How long did it take?

I spent about 1.5 hours at the immigration office, however, it was busy that day and my case officer was dealing with other visa related problems.

Thank you however, as you wrote earlier that it did take a bit longer than normal explaining your income, I was really asking how long did it take specifically to explain your income in contrast to how much time it takes an IMM officer to figure out the income related  info on an embassy provided income affidavit.

[DUNROAMIN]

15 hours ago, JLCrab said:

Thank you however, as you wrote earlier that it did take a bit longer than normal explaining your income, I was really asking how long did it take specifically to explain your income in contrast to how much time it takes an IMM officer to figure out the income related  info on an embassy provided income affidavit.

Compared to last years application, it took about an extra 30 mins. Each year I have provided the same government docs from Australia along with a Statuary Declaration. I myself wondered what was the point of a  Stat Dec witnessed and stamped by my Embassy, as they do not physically check or verify that I am receiving this money. A Stat Dec is merely a "trust me I am telling the truth" piece of paper, and legally does not amount to much.

Keep in mind that TI now know the affidavits/Stat Dec can't be verified and is not worth the paper it is written on.

My letters from my government are signed by a representative of the relevant departments, so, one would think that this would suffice as proof of income. I believe no matter how much you show to TI in most cases it will be too hard for them to get their head around it, and no way to verify it. I was lucky as I have a good re pore with my TI office and try to stay calm and smile. I think the B800,000+ shown transferred over a twelve month period plus my government docs were enough to convince the TI officer that it was genuine. 

Cheers

[DUNROAMIN]

16 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Who verified and signed the Australian bank statements ? Did you need to supply anything from a Thai bank ?

Hi, the Australian bank statement was not verified merely a print out from my bank, however the THai bank statement was verified (stamped and signed) by a bank employee.

 

16 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Who verified and signed the Australian bank statements ? Did you need to supply anything from a Thai bank ?

 

[Pattaya46]

17 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Compared to last years application, it took about an extra 30 mins. //

An extra 30 minutes !

It must take less than 2 minutes (TWO!) in average at Jomtien Immigration to check your documents for a yearly extension. 30 minutes just would make it impossible.

[JackThompson]

29 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Keep in mind that TI now know the affidavits/Stat Dec can't be verified and is not worth the paper it is written on

I don't think they are worthless, due to the legal-repercussions of being caught lying (USA, AU its a felony, not sure about UK or Danes). 

 

What TI is apparently saying, is that that after decades, they just got around to reading what they letters actually state - that the embassy-personnel do not contact each income source, to verify the applicant is not committing a felony.  In addition, they cannot even give a full year delay - during which letters are both available/issued and valid - to allow for an alternative solution to be developed. 

 

30 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

I was lucky as I have a good re pore with my TI office and try to stay calm and smile.   I think the B800,000+ shown transferred over a twelve month period plus my government docs were enough to convince the TI officer that it was genuine. 

I agree on all counts - but hope those of us with income from non-govt sources will also be OK, if we can show the incoming-money to a Thai account.

 

11 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

An extra 30 minutes !

It must take less than 2 minutes (TWO!) in average at Jomtien Immigration to check your documents for a yearly extension. 30 minutes just would make it impossible.

I must agree - impossible in high-volume offices.  But also tend to think it didn't take 30 mins just to read those few docs.  Maybe determining what they should do in this "new situation," was the cause of most of that.

[DUNROAMIN]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

An extra 30 minutes !

It must take less than 2 minutes (TWO!) in average at Jomtien Immigration to check your documents for a yearly extension. 30 minutes just would make it impossible.

That may be for you now, depending on what proof you supply. This was a first time without Embassy help. And I suspect until this mess is sorted out with Immigration some visits for extensions are going to be longer.

[JLCrab]

The above scenario of multiple Australian government documents etc. is a recipe for total gridlock at IMM offices.

[DUNROAMIN]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I don't think they are worthless, due to the legal-repercussions of being caught lying (USA, AU its a felony, not sure about UK or Danes). 

 

What TI is apparently saying, is that that after decades, they just got around to reading what they letters actually state - that the embassy-personnel do not contact each income source, to verify the applicant is not committing a felony.  In addition, they cannot even give a full year delay - during which letters are both available/issued and valid - to allow for an alternative solution to be developed. 

 

I agree on all counts - but hope those of us with income from non-govt sources will also be OK, if we can show the incoming-money to a Thai account.

 

I must agree - impossible in high-volume offices.  But also tend to think it didn't take 30 mins just to read those few docs.  Maybe determining what they should do in this "new situation," was the cause of most of that.

Correct! Good luck for all.

[jimn]

2 hours ago, DUNROAMIN said:

Hi, the Australian bank statement was not verified merely a print out from my bank, however the THai bank statement was verified (stamped and signed) by a bank employee.

 

 

Just picking up on something you quoted if you dont mind, regarding the 800,000 plus you had in the Thai bank account. Prior to you getting your extension did you have a bank balance of 800,000 and over for the 3 months before you applied? The reason I am asking this is because if you did, this would be the reason they granted you an extension without the embassy letter. Because you had a signed letter from the bank and a balance of 800,000 plus they accepted your application via the bank method and not the income method. I may be wrong but I would be grateful if you could clarify. Thanks

[skatewash]

26 minutes ago, jimn said:

Just picking up on something you quoted if you dont mind, regarding the 800,000 plus you had in the Thai bank account. Prior to you getting your extension did you have a bank balance of 800,000 and over for the 3 months before you applied? The reason I am asking this is because if you did, this would be the reason they granted you an extension without the embassy letter. Because you had a signed letter from the bank and a balance of 800,000 plus they accepted your application via the bank method and not the income method. I may be wrong but I would be grateful if you could clarify. Thanks

This question was asked previously and the answer was no.  I'll see if I can find it and link to it.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1069011-proof-of-income/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-13570838

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by skatewash
Added link.

[jimn]

25 minutes ago, skatewash said:

This question was asked previously and the answer was no.  I'll see if I can find it and link to it.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1069011-proof-of-income/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-13570838

 

Ok thanks for that. I still think though that the letter from the bank detailing his income probably sealed it for him. I doubt if they would have issued the extension without either a bank letter or an embassy letter.

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, jimn said:

Ok thanks for that. I still think though that the letter from the bank detailing his income probably sealed it for him. I doubt if they would have issued the extension without either a bank letter or an embassy letter.

Yes, probably right.  Hard to draw much of a precedent from a single incident.

[DUNROAMIN]

5 hours ago, jimn said:

Just picking up on something you quoted if you dont mind, regarding the 800,000 plus you had in the Thai bank account. Prior to you getting your extension did you have a bank balance of 800,000 and over for the 3 months before you applied? The reason I am asking this is because if you did, this would be the reason they granted you an extension without the embassy letter. Because you had a signed letter from the bank and a balance of 800,000 plus they accepted your application via the bank method and not the income method. I may be wrong but I would be grateful if you could clarify. Thanks

The answer is no, I did not have a balance of 800,000 in the bank. I supplied them with a bank statement for a twelve month period, Oct 2017 - Oct 2018. This statement showed all my deposits from Australia into my Thai account for that period. Over that 12 month period I had deposited over 800,000.  The amounts each month fluctuated depending on my needs. This was proof that I had the necessary funds to support myself as required by Thai Immigration guidelines. I think the combo of the bank statements and official pension statements was enough to convince the Immigration officer that I met the criteria for a retirement visa.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[jacko45k]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:34 PM, BoBoTheClown said:

So after you guys put the 400,000 or 800,000 baht in a Thai Bank what money do you use to eat and pay rent?. 

 

 

 

 

Let's make it simple, I put 500,000 or 900,000 baht in a Thai bank,

[Agusts]

How about this, you get your income/pension statements officially translated in home country by a proper authorized translating company/agent and then ask them to also send it to the Thai embassy at home country to be stamped/verified (I think they might do that for some documents anyway !). Could that be accepted as a proof of income... !?  (In some countries some authorized translated documents have to be also stamped by Foreign Office of the home country, maybe that is the way to go... !)

 

Of course this will cost and need an agent, maybe a lawyer, to chase it and send you the documents if you are not there. In fact I am in UK now and was thinking about doing it.... ! The problem is I have to do it in parallel with 800k in case it is not accepted. Too much hassle to test TI..., just have to go with the 800k and that crappy £ exchange rate...????????

 

 

[KhunFred]

On 11/14/2018 at 5:39 PM, JohnnyBD said:

 

So, you never tried to use your Social Security letter as your ONLY proof of income. I wish someone would try then come back and post if they had any luck...

I will have to be married before my SS letter could be used as my only source of income. It amounts to about 43 thousand baht alone, so it would cover me if I were married, but not if I were single.. The annuity and state retirement documents are no more complex than the SS letter. They multiply the numbers by 33 and get their total, which, in my case, is about 82 thousand baht. They seem to enjoy making things as obtuse as they can possibly be.